Strongly Religiously Influenced Application

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What's with the intolerance on this board? Not everybody's bible needs to be the pages of Nature and not everybody's faith needs to be relegated only to placebo-controlled, double blind tested medicine. Many people benefit from religion. I've certainly met alcoholics, addicts and paupers who have benefited far more from going to their local church then they ever did going to their local medicaid factory.

You can believe in a God and you can believe in evidence-based medicine. I don't see why those two ideas need to be mutually exclusive. In fact, I think people who believe in both benefit the most (on a personal level).

@ the OP write what you think will be best for you, just try to imbue your PS with subtly and a tone that doesn't alienate the admission committee's. Talk about how you feel as though your faith has inspired you to pursue medicine, but also bring in other reasons

I think its the fact that people pick and choose the parts of both they like. So next time when you are supposed to be having a life saving surgery, just forget it and pray about it. I'm sure you'll come out fine brah.:D

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Indeed. While, on a human level, I respect others' rights to follow the faith of their choosing and appreciate the various religions as culturally interesting, the idea of miracles always troubled and, if I were being honest, disturbed me. As, even if I/we were to accept they were real [without evidence, of course], they contradict the Judea-Christian claim that God loves, protects and cares for everyone, equally and without discrimination. It expresses the image of a God that is selective in who he cares about, loves and aids; it expresses the image of a God who, on average, seems to favor those living functional, first world lives and not those, no matter their location, suffering from severe abuse, neglect, tragedy, starvation, epidemic disease and an insurmountable amount of loss; if you accept the words of those who claim that these miracles only occur to those with faith, it lays blame on those who have been victimized and shows the image of a God who punishes those who have never even been informed of his existence; and it shows the image of a god who will, essentially, only 'show' himself or act every now again, seemingly to prove he exists. Why would anyone want to follow such a God?

I have had wonderful things occur in my life, some of them even seeming miracle-like in that they occurred at just the moment that I needed it to occur. Yet, I have also known countless who have not been so fortunate, including some of the most devout Christians I have ever known, and have suffered greatly, even died, as a consequence. In fact, if anything, I know more with that experience than with mine. My 'miracles' are not miracles at all -- they are a combination of coincidences and a group of wonderful people who genuinely cared about myself and those like me.

It's not about persecuting those of faith; it's about fighting and caring for all humans, not just God's chosen.

OP, the goal of your personal statement is to answer the question, Why Medicine? If your miracle does not aid in answering that question, there is no reason to include it; it is irrelevant to the topic assigned to you to write about. Ultimately, with most adcoms, it could only hurt you. It will not be seen favorably.

Very eloquently put.
 
75% of doctors believe in miracles, 72% say religion provides a reliable and necessary guide to life. 55% said that they have seen treatment results in their patients that they would consider miraculous. I think he wants to be a doctor not a scientist. Sorry I don't have statistics of religion of admission committee, which would be more useful.
85% of scientists don't believe in a PERSONAL god. Most of them, I would imagine would believe in some form of "supernatural" (Attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature). If they believe in Big Bang, they believe in supernatural. Makes sense. God is not really discover-able by 5 senses or is it a consistent phenomenon (like "heat travels up") of sort that it can be put into a scientific law. No "reason" to believe in a PERSONAL god as a scientist, who's job is to discover things by observing nature of consistent findings/results.
Any statistics on how many scientists believe that a personal god is an impossible phenomenon? I want to make sure if they have any evidence that ALL things that are real must be discover-able by humans. Naive to just believe THAT I think. I trust the scientists with all my mind, body and soul about discoveries of tangible things in this universe, I don't know about non-tangible things. Besides, I don't think most scientists research on the existence of a personal god. I think they're probably looking for a cure for cancer or teaching organic chemistry or something like that lol. Isn't it better to look for evidence in people who actually do something closely related to miracles than people who sit in their labs (with due respect) and look for cure for cancer or teach organic chemistry in a classroom? Either "everybody(55% of doctors) lies" or there really is something to be discovered instead of dismissing many of those accounts to be "unfair therefore not true" (doesn't make sense).
JUST A THOUGHT MAN CALM DOWN. lol :)

Could you give the citation for this?
 
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It's how you relate it. Everyone who knows love knows God, because God is love. And those who abide in love, abide in God, and God abides them. The issue is that, as the Bible says, no one have ever seen God. And in this society, we are all about what we can see--even when what we can see doesn't tell all our reality.
We call people beautiful, even if they have ugly personality!

It's like Antoine de Saint Exupery says
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye."

Good luck!! Sacred Heart!!

No. Love is more than a celestial dictator. Yahweh killed more of his people than Satan. He is a maniac about what you do with your genitals. He hasn't shown up to help the sick and dying, ever. That's love to you? You can keep it.

An evidence-less claim has no business hanging around this long, especially in medicine. In the chance we're not getting trolled: OP, do some rational thinking. Use reason. You'll see you don't need to invoke the supernatural as an answer for your experiences.
 
Could you give the citation for this?

The numbers are accurate and current. The poll was conducted within the National Academy of Sciences. Neil deGrasse Tyson referenced it in a talk I heard not too long ago. I don't have a link though.
 
What's with the intolerance on this board? Not everybody's bible needs to be the pages of Nature and not everybody's faith needs to be relegated only to placebo-controlled, double blind tested medicine. Many people benefit from religion. I've certainly met alcoholics, addicts and paupers who have benefited far more from going to their local church then they ever did going to their local medicaid factory.

You can believe in a God and you can believe in evidence-based medicine. I don't see why those two ideas need to be mutually exclusive. In fact, I think people who believe in both benefit the most (on a personal level).

@ the OP write what you think will be best for you, just try to imbue your PS with subtly and a tone that doesn't alienate the admission committee's. Talk about how you feel as though your faith has inspired you to pursue medicine, but also bring in other reasons

I agree there is no reason to demean someone's religious beliefs. However, I still strongly caution against OP mentioning his/her "miracle experience" in wanting to become a physician. It speaks to an unrealistic view of medicine, IMO.
 
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This seemed appropriate. :)
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If I was reading a very religious personal statements I'd throw it in the trash. In medicine you have to deal with people from all walks of life and I would question your ability to relate to others from different backgrounds. There are certain times when discussing religion is perfectly acceptable (end of life discussions) but it's not in your personal statement. You've only got a brief time period to make an impression and you don't want people to wonder if you thought you were applying for seminary. Stick to medicine in a medical school personal statement and don't talk about anything controversial (religion, politics, etc).

I hope general consensus does not dictate that religious people cannot empathize or sympathize with others. If anything, I have witnessed that faith-minded folk have all the more reason to care more for other's welfare. If religion is a large part of someone's life, I see no problem discussing it in a personal statement. If religion is indeed as socially taboo as some posts make it seem, then perhaps it is best to stick to less "controversial" topics in a personal statement.


It's how you relate it. Everyone who knows love knows God, because God is love. And those who abide in love, abide in God, and God abides them. The issue is that, as the Bible says, no one have ever seen God. And in this society, we are all about what we can see--even when what we can see doesn't tell all our reality.
We call people beautiful, even if they have ugly personality!

It's like Antoine de Saint Exupery says
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye."

Good luck!! Sacred Heart!!

You speak truth. Good luck to you as well!


Just to add this; aren't there medical schools that do have a religious or faith-based philosophy that might be receptive to people of the OP's nature? Creighton, Loyola, Loma Linda and Georgetown come to mind.

Sure, three of those schools were founded on Jesuit principles--education and service. However, I am not looking to self-select myself to only attending a "religious" institution. I went a non-religious, or secular if you will, institution for undergrad and loved every moment of it.

I am not trying to attend a necessarily top tier medical school but instead the school with the greatest fit for myself. This is not necessarily a religious environment. Because someone adheres to tenets of a religion does not mean they must isolate themselves to interacting and being part of locations relating only to their respective religion. Currently, I am looking into attending a few top 20 institutions on my mind, but that is a story for a different thread.

Do not assume I am a closed-minded religious fanatic. I enjoy broadening my viewpoints on life and welcome all theories to my door. I enjoy reading all sorts of philosophies, especially ones against what I believe. If you live under a rock, all you will see is black. I like color. :)

Talking about your faith is probably fine, miracles is crossing the line imo.

It seems as if many people, religious or nonreligious, have no problems (at least displayed outwardly) with other's religions, at least in the U.S. However, the Abrahimic religions all acknowledge that there is a God who is capable of infinite works. Thus, if talking about one's faith "is probably fine" to you as you say, this should not preclude hearing about God's works, including out-in-the-daylight miracles. If it does, then you are not as tolerant of other's faiths as you believe.

First, there is no problem with an applicant who has a strong religious belief and believes that G-d provides miracles, in ancient times and today.

In terms of using your faith as a REASON for becoming a physician, one should be cautious. In general, it is best to not necessarily indicate that one was "called" to be a doctor, but to indicate simply that you believe that being a religious person is part of what motivates you to medicine as a career. You will almost certainly not be asked further about it.

Now, in this case, if you wish to share your story, then you should do so in basic terms and not provide unneeded details or emphasis on religion as your basis for medicine. Indicate that you were ill, you got better and that you have faith that your improvement involved not just medicine, but also a Higher power.

In my opinion, this will neither help nor hurt your application for most readers of it, although of course there may be a few who find the story remarkably good or bad. You should emphasize that you are not going to be a physician solely based on your illness and recovery and that you strongly believe in using medicines to treat people. Otherwise, why go to medical school?

Those who believe that physicians may not or should not believe in miracles are entitled to their opinion. I do not share that perspective. However, you should express your faith in ways that capture your commitment to modern medicine.

Maimonides was a physician.

Great advice. Thank-you. No worries, I am not going to medical school based singularly off an experience.

Religiously motivated personal statement are VERY common. That being said if your religious motivation gives you a unique experience in the medical realm it would be fine.

Now address the bolded part. That fact that you are unwilling to share your religious experience just points to the BS of the whole thing. Now don't get me wrong I am an agnostic theist so I do believe in "God(s)" yours just sounds like crap. I also find it odd that you would believe you have a personal relationship with a being you have never met. I also find it odd that you believe this being acted on your behalf to heal you. Why would this being do that? Also 1 Peter 15 states that you must be ready to make an account for the hope that is in you... If you believe you were healed by God and this is why you came to believe you have an obligation to tell us and everybody that ask about that healing. You can do it in a PM if you want. I won't attack you, but I will point out flaws in your understanding if I see them.

Now on the second bolded part if you present this to an adcom they will be freaked out and worry that you will become some kind of nutzo faith healer. I is better to talk about how it motivated you towards careing, love, compassion and the desire to heal.

Good luck to you and be careful what you post on here. It is troll season and stuff like this with your low post count will get you a troll label every time.

I am not looking to proselytize through these posts. I did not share what occurred because it is irrelevant to the point of this thread. It would add another dementia to the thread, and I feel the point of my post would be forgotten. Again, as I mentioned earlier, the miracle is trivial compared to the grand scheme of things. I wanted to gain perspective of what the average reader would believe if they read essays based of religious experiences as a whole.

Indeed. While, on a human level, I respect others' rights to follow the faith of their choosing and appreciate the various religions as culturally interesting, the idea of miracles always troubled and, if I were being honest, disturbed me. As, even if I/we were to accept they were real [without evidence, of course], they contradict the Judea-Christian claim that God loves, protects and cares for everyone, equally and without discrimination. It expresses the image of a God that is selective in who he cares about, loves and aids; it expresses the image of a God who, on average, seems to favor those living functional, first world lives and not those, no matter their location, suffering from severe abuse, neglect, tragedy, starvation, epidemic disease and an insurmountable amount of loss; if you accept the words of those who claim that these miracles only occur to those with faith, it lays blame on those who have been victimized and shows the image of a God who punishes those who have never even been informed of his existence; and it shows the image of a god who will, essentially, only 'show' himself or act every now again, seemingly to prove he exists. Why would anyone want to follow such a God?

I have had wonderful things occur in my life, some of them even seeming miracle-like in that they occurred at just the moment that I needed it to occur. Yet, I have also known countless who have not been so fortunate, including some of the most devout Christians I have ever known, and have suffered greatly, even died, as a consequence. In fact, if anything, I know more with that experience than with mine. My 'miracles' are not miracles at all -- they are a combination of coincidences and a group of wonderful people who genuinely cared about myself and those like me.

It's not about persecuting those of faith; it's about fighting and caring for all humans, not just God's chosen.

OP, the goal of your personal statement is to answer the question, Why Medicine? If your miracle does not aid in answering that question, there is no reason to include it; it is irrelevant to the topic assigned to you to write about. Ultimately, with most adcoms, it could only hurt you. It will not be seen favorably.

I understand your views and believe you misunderstand God's love. First, in my case, I had no faith before my conversion. So God does not only perform his works on those who have faith. God reveals himself "from time to time" through obvious, outward miracles, as you say, for the purpose that those who witness these wonders, or even just the person himself, will turn back to him. However, God works in our lives everyday in minute fashions we will likely never fully comprehend. Why God created us in the first place or what God's intentions are, I know not. Second, why he does not cure everyone at once, I am not sure of either. He works through mysterious ways. Remember that we are all God's chosen. Third, God does not punish those who do not know of his existence. Lastly, remember that suffering is not always a bad thing (no, I am not condoning the conditions of the poor, nor am I saying people should be in perpetual sufferance), and that it is an important part of life and maturation. God leaves epidemics, people uncured, famines, etc. for reasons we will never fully understand on Earth. I could go more in depth, but that is not the purpose of this thread. And no worries, I am sure my PS will answer "Why Medicine". Thanks for your reply.


I agree there is no reason to demean someone's religious beliefs. However, I still strongly caution against OP mentioning his/her "miracle experience" in wanting to become a physician. It speaks to an unrealistic view of medicine, IMO.

I reiterate that the "miracle experience" does not have any bearing on my goals as a physician. I am a strong believer in the power of modern healthcare, and I believe in divine providence as well. Physicians should always work towards caring for and maximizing the best interest of their patients. Believing in God, or even his miracles, does not amount to providing inadequate care to someone because you believe God will take care of them. I hope to perform as highly as possible as a physician all the while knowing God is guiding my hands.

Due to it being such a highly controversial topic, I will likely be vague about the subject for the sake of admissions. It is unfortunate.

I believe I have gotten what I need. Thanks everyone again for the replies! :thumbup:
 
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I hope general consensus does not dictate that religious people cannot empathize or sympathize with others. If anything, I have witnessed that faith-minded folk have all the more reason to care more for other's welfare. If religion is a large part of someone's life, I see no problem discussing it in a personal statement. If religious is indeed as socially taboo as some posts make it seem, then perhaps it is best to stick to less "controversial" topics in a personal statement.




You speak truth. Good luck to you as well!




Sure, three of those schools were founded on Jesuit principles--education and service. However, I am not looking to self-select myself to only attending a "religious" institution. I went a non-religious, or secular if you will, institution for undergrad and loved every moment of it.

I am not trying to attend a necessarily top tier medical school but instead the school with the greatest fit for myself. This is not necessarily a religious environment. Because someone adheres to tenets of a religion does not mean they must isolate themselves to interacting and being part of locations relating only to their respective religion. Currently, I am looking into attending a few top 20 institutions on my mind, but that is a story for a different thread.

Do not assume I am a closed-minded religious fanatic. I enjoy broadening my viewpoints on life and welcome all theories to my door. I enjoy reading all sorts of philosophies, especially ones against what I believe. If you live under a rock, all you will see is black. I like color. :)



It seems as if many people, religious or nonreligious, have no problems (at least displayed outwardly) with other's religions, at least in the U.S. However, the Abrahimic religions all acknowledge that there is a God who is capable of infinite works. Thus, if talking about one's faith "is probably fine" to you as you say, this should not preclude hearing about God's works, including out-in-the-daylight miracles. If it does, then you are not as tolerant of other's faiths as you believe.



Great advice. Thank-you. No worries, I am not going to medical school based singularly off an experience.



I am not looking to proselytize through these posts. I did not share what occurred because it is irrelevant to the point of this thread. It would add another dementia to the thread, and I feel the point of my post would be forgotten. Again, as I mentioned earlier, the miracle is trivial compared to the grand scheme of things. I wanted to gain perspective of what the average reader would believe if they read essays based of religious experiences as a whole.



I understand your views and believe you misunderstand God's love. First, in my case, I had no faith before my conversion. So God does not only perform his works on those who have faith. God reveals himself "from time to time" through obvious, outward miracles, as you say, for the purpose that those who witness these wonders, or even just the person himself, will turn back to him. However, God works in our lives everyday in minute fashions we will likely never fully comprehend. Why God created us in the first place or what God's intentions are, I know not. Second, why he does not cure everyone at once, I am not sure of either. He works through mysterious ways. Remember that we are all God's chosen. Third, God does not punish those who do not know of his existence. Lastly, remember that suffering is not always a bad thing (no, I am not condoning the conditions of the poor, nor am I saying people should be in perpetual sufferance), and that it is an important part of life and maturation. God leaves epidemics, people uncured, famines, etc. for reasons we will never fully understand on Earth. I could go more in depth, but that is not the purpose of this thread. And no worries, I am sure my PS will answer "Why Medicine". Thanks for your reply.




I reiterate that the "miracle experience" does not have any bearing on my goals as a physician. I am a strong believer in the power of modern healthcare, and I believe in divine providence as well. Physicians should always work towards caring for and maximizing the best interest of their patients. Believing in God, or even his miracles, does not amount to providing inadequate care to someone because you believe God will take care of them. I hope to perform as highly as possible as a physician all the while knowing God is guiding my hands.

Due to it being such a highly controversial topic, I will likely be vague about the subject for the sake of admissions. It is unfortunate.

I believe I have gotten what I need. Thanks everyone again for the replies! :thumbup:

rofl you got a 43 on your mcat? wow.
 
75% of doctors believe in miracles, 72% say religion provides a reliable and necessary guide to life. 55% said that they have seen treatment results in their patients that they would consider miraculous. I think he wants to be a doctor not a scientist. Sorry I don't have statistics of religion of admission committee, which would be more useful.
85% of scientists don't believe in a PERSONAL god. Most of them, I would imagine would believe in some form of "supernatural" (Attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature). If they believe in Big Bang, they believe in supernatural. Makes sense. God is not really discover-able by 5 senses or is it a consistent phenomenon (like "heat travels up") of sort that it can be put into a scientific law. No "reason" to believe in a PERSONAL god as a scientist, who's job is to discover things by observing nature of consistent findings/results.
Any statistics on how many scientists believe that a personal god is an impossible phenomenon? I want to make sure if they have any evidence that ALL things that are real must be discover-able by humans. Naive to just believe THAT I think. I trust the scientists with all my mind, body and soul about discoveries of tangible things in this universe, I don't know about non-tangible things. Besides, I don't think most scientists research on the existence of a personal god. I think they're probably looking for a cure for cancer or teaching organic chemistry or something like that lol. Isn't it better to look for evidence in people who actually do something closely related to miracles than people who sit in their labs (with due respect) and look for cure for cancer or teach organic chemistry in a classroom? Either "everybody(55% of doctors) lies" or there really is something to be discovered instead of dismissing many of those accounts to be "unfair therefore not true" (doesn't make sense).
JUST A THOUGHT MAN CALM DOWN. lol :)

There is a long leap between "I believe a personal god is impossible" (trying to prove a negative) and "I don't believe a personal god exists" (I have seen no evidence to prove otherwise, nor do I ever expect to).

Much of the rest of your points fit into the "god of the gaps" argument that many people far more knowledgeable than I (including NDT, likely in that same speech you mention) have refuted. Humans not having perfect explanations for everything around them is hardly proof of divine intervention, it simple points to a current lack of knowledge. 2000 years ago lightening was Zeus expressing his anger, everyone KNEW that to be true. We have a slightly different view today.

All of that is rather moot since my first post in this thread was NOT an attack on religion, but rather on whether or not it was a wise decision to include talk of miracles in one's personal statement. It seems even the OP agrees that it would be risky to do so.
 
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You are a stupid troll but I can't resist.

Forget medical school and become a faith healer. Lots of sheeple will drink your kook-aid and follow you to Guyana...
"miracles" LOL
it's as if the laws of physics don't exist or something
On a serious note, most, if not all, admission committees will view your piety extremely favorably. Apply very, very broadly. Remember, God is on your side, there's no reason to fear.
Putting my religious preferences or lack thereof aside... I always find it funny, frustrating and perplexing how atheists proclaim to be open-minded, tolerant and "welcoming", yet when someone, especially a Christian (whether they're a troll or not, in this case it doesn't matter) seeks assistance, them and their beliefs are ridiculed. Not to mention the condescending manner in which they're spoken to and the lack of any substantial guidance -- minus a few posters in this thread. This hypocrisy and lack of integrity are astounding -- and these are the people who are going to become physicians? Why not just move on instead of wasting everyone's time with your post?

No. Love is more than a celestial dictator. Yahweh killed more of his people than Satan. He is a maniac about what you do with your genitals. He hasn't shown up to help the sick and dying, ever. That's love to you? You can keep it.

An evidence-less claim has no business hanging around this long, especially in medicine. In the chance we're not getting trolled: OP, do some rational thinking. Use reason. You'll see you don't need to invoke the supernatural as an answer for your experiences.
If you actually took the time to research (Reddit, CNN and Richard Dawkins don't count) and move past a first grade understanding of Christian Theology and philosophy, you would realize how puerile and ignorant you appear right now.

Back to lurking...
 
Putting my religious preferences or lack thereof aside... I always find it funny, frustrating and perplexing how atheists proclaim to be open-minded, tolerant and "welcoming", yet when someone, especially a Christian (whether they're a troll or not, in this case it doesn't matter) seeks assistance, them and their beliefs are ridiculed. Not to mention the condescending manner in which they're spoken to and the lack of any substantial guidance -- minus a few posters in this thread. This hypocrisy and lack of integrity are astounding -- and these are the people who are going to become physicians? Why not just move on instead of wasting everyone's time with your post?


If you actually took the time to research (Reddit, CNN and Richard Dawkins don't count) and move past a first grade understanding of Christian Theology and philosophy, you would realize how puerile and ignorant you appear right now.

Back to lurking...


i will put up a strawman and then make ad hominem attacks based on random assumptions about the character of you vile atheists.
also i used to hate god but now i love him so i'm way more legit, hear my testimony fellas
you are all hypocrites, but not me and why bother sharing your thoughts about a subject in a place that's about sharing your thoughts? the sheer audacity.
also god saved me because jesus died on the cross (super unique, the romans never did that to anyone else) then he went to hell (i was there, i can verify it) and came back alive on the third day (srsly you guys) also his mother was a virgin. (g-d was just taking a page out of zeus's book although my g-d exists, unlike yours)
 
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Putting my religious preferences or lack thereof aside... I always find it funny, frustrating and perplexing how atheists proclaim to be open-minded, tolerant and "welcoming", yet when someone, especially a Christian (whether they're a troll or not, in this case it doesn't matter) seeks assistance, them and their beliefs are ridiculed. Not to mention the condescending manner in which they're spoken to and the lack of any substantial guidance -- minus a few posters in this thread. This hypocrisy and lack of integrity are astounding -- and these are the people who are going to become physicians? Why not just move on instead of wasting everyone's time with your post?


If you actually took the time to research (Reddit, CNN and Richard Dawkins don't count) and move past a first grade understanding of Christian Theology and philosophy, you would realize how puerile and ignorant you appear right now.

Back to lurking...

Come on now what are you talking about? Where in the world do you get the idea that atheists are somehow the open minded super power about things? They have opinions just like evryone else and they are not big fans of religion. So why would you think they are going to open arms welcome this guy , that cant even stick around to defend his faith, to the forum?
Come on bro they make a good case. If you disagree state why and make your case
 
If you actually took the time to research (Reddit, CNN and Richard Dawkins don't count) and move past a first grade understanding of Christian Theology and philosophy, you would realize how puerile and ignorant you appear right now.

Back to lurking...

With my first grade reading level I was able to get through the Bible, and, taking it at face value, I learned the following things:

Homosexuality is an abomination (Leviticus 18:22), tattoos are sins (Leviticus 19:28); people who work on Sundays need to be killed (Exodus 35:2); eating pork or bacon is a sin (Leviticus 11:8); if your son is stubborn and rebellious, you need to execute him in public (Deuteronomy 21:18-21); and you can't cut your sideburns or shave your beard (Leviticus 19:27).

Few other things we have to believe about God in the Bible: God told Jews to kill every Amalekite man, woman, children, infants, oxen, sheep, camels and donkeys (1 Samuel 15:3). Oh yeah, by the way, thou shalt not kill.. God will kill you if you pull out (Genesis 38:9-10), but it's okay for a daughter to get her dad drunk and breed with him (Genesis 19:31-32). If you had testicular cancer and had to get them removed, you are no longer allowed in church (Deuteronomy 23:1) and probably won't go to heaven. Women need to submit to their husband in everything, no matter what (Ephesians 5:24). Women cannot teach, and they should shut up (1 Timothy 2:12). If you rape a virgin girl, you need to marry her and pay her father off (Deuteronomy 22:28-29). And last but not least, here is my favorite Bible verse we are all instructed to abide by: If you're fighting a guy, and your wife comes to aid you and grabs your opponent by the balls, you need to cut your wife's hand off (Deuteronomy 25:11-12).

So with that, I'd say Yahweh does care very much about what you do with your genitals, and his partiality and vindictiveness have been paid for, time and time again, with the blood of his own creation. Now that's only my first grade understanding of Christian theology, so forgive me if I'm being puerile and ignorant.
 
You're right, it's your first grade understanding of theology. This is why it's really important to get a historical view of the Bible, of the Bhagavad Gita, of Confucius, even of Aristotle's writing.

For example, tattoos were designated as a sin because in those times, tattoos were explicitly used as a demonstration of what cult you belonged to. People didn't get tattoos, as they do now, to write an uplifting message or get a cute a picture of a flower. So when the Bible condemns tattoos,it was condemning cults--something that we generally still condemn today. The writers didn't give historical context because they assumed current readers during those days already knew about what tattoos signified.
 
75% of doctors believe in miracles, 72% say religion provides a reliable and necessary guide to life. 55% said that they have seen treatment results in their patients that they would consider miraculous. I think he wants to be a doctor not a scientist. Sorry I don't have statistics of religion of admission committee, which would be more useful.
85% of scientists don't believe in a PERSONAL god. Most of them, I would imagine would believe in some form of "supernatural" (Attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature). If they believe in Big Bang, they believe in supernatural. Makes sense. God is not really discover-able by 5 senses or is it a consistent phenomenon (like "heat travels up") of sort that it can be put into a scientific law. No "reason" to believe in a PERSONAL god as a scientist, who's job is to discover things by observing nature of consistent findings/results.
Any statistics on how many scientists believe that a personal god is an impossible phenomenon? I want to make sure if they have any evidence that ALL things that are real must be discover-able by humans. Naive to just believe THAT I think. I trust the scientists with all my mind, body and soul about discoveries of tangible things in this universe, I don't know about non-tangible things. Besides, I don't think most scientists research on the existence of a personal god. I think they're probably looking for a cure for cancer or teaching organic chemistry or something like that lol. Isn't it better to look for evidence in people who actually do something closely related to miracles than people who sit in their labs (with due respect) and look for cure for cancer or teach organic chemistry in a classroom? Either "everybody(55% of doctors) lies" or there really is something to be discovered instead of dismissing many of those accounts to be "unfair therefore not true" (doesn't make sense).
JUST A THOUGHT MAN CALM DOWN. lol :)

The numbers are accurate and current. The poll was conducted within the National Academy of Sciences. Neil deGrasse Tyson referenced it in a talk I heard not too long ago. I don't have a link though.

Ok, I believe I found the data you two were talking about. The "75% of doctors believe in miracles" likely came from a study done by an obviously biased organization, HCD Research and the Louis Finkelstein Institute for Religious and Social Studies of the Jewish Theological Seminary in New York. I can't prove it was biased so that is not a point I will emphasize, but that data was not published in any journal and is not peer reviewed. link = http://www.hcdi.net/News/PressRelease.cfm?ID=47

For another, the study design sucks, apparently. They only asked doctors who associated with a specific religion if they believed miracles could occur. They didn't ask religious, but without a specific tradition, what they felt. That's stupid. They specifically picked a group of physicians to prune away unwanted data and then acted like the data was representation of ALL doctors. Beyond that, after actually trying to find a paper on their claims, I can find none. Any group that hides their methods can not be trusted to yield solid data....

Here is a paper clarifying the religiosity in physicians in the united states, actually published in the Journal of General Internal Medicine. ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1490160/ ) About 50 percent of physicians are religious and spiritual (which I take means participate in a specific religious tradition). Many people are affiliated with specific religions, but that doesn't clarifying their personal beliefs. I just want to point out that this data was gathered via a random sampling of physicians via mailing out questionnaires and only had a 63% response rate, which makes me wonder if those who are more religious were more likely to respond in the first place.

In summation, maybe 75% of doctors who already believe in a religion based on miracles, would believe in miracles in modern day. Yeah, that's obvious. I really doubt if you had a true representational sampling of physicians that even 50% would believe in miracles.
 
You're right, it's your first grade understanding of theology. This is why it's really important to get a historical view of the Bible, of the Bhagavad Gita, of Confucius, even of Aristotle's writing.

For example, tattoos were designated as a sin because in those times, tattoos were explicitly used as a demonstration of what cult you belonged to. People didn't get tattoos, as they do now, to write an uplifting message or get a cute a picture of a flower. So when the Bible condemns tattoos,it was condemning cults--something that we generally still condemn today. The writers didn't give historical context because they assumed current readers during those days already knew about what tattoos signified.

Ohhh so now I see why studying theology is relevant and useful.
 
You're right, it's your first grade understanding of theology. This is why it's really important to get a historical view of the Bible, of the Bhagavad Gita, of Confucius, even of Aristotle's writing.

For example, tattoos were designated as a sin because in those times, tattoos were explicitly used as a demonstration of what cult you belonged to. People didn't get tattoos, as they do now, to write an uplifting message or get a cute a picture of a flower. So when the Bible condemns tattoos,it was condemning cults--something that we generally still condemn today.

Why is it that God, supposed omniscient creator of the universe, is seemingly incapable of delivering a message to his people that transcends time? It's as if, for example, I was God, and with my one written message to all of creation, I chose to advise them on how to properly store and maintain a cassette player. Come on! There's a reason so many things in the Old Testament aren't applicable to our lives today, and it doesn't take several years in seminary school to figure it out.

Edit: And by saying "it's really important to get a historical view of the Bible," you're only reinforcing my point.
 
You're right, it's your first grade understanding of theology. This is why it's really important to get a historical view of the Bible, of the Bhagavad Gita, of Confucius, even of Aristotle's writing.

I would add "Gone with the Wind", "Peyton Place", the "Harry Potter" series, and "Hunger Games" to your list.

For example, tattoos were designated as a sin because in those times, tattoos were explicitly used as a demonstration of what cult you belonged to. People didn't get tattoos, as they do now, to write an uplifting message or get a cute a picture of a flower. So when the Bible condemns tattoos,it was condemning cults--something that we generally still condemn today. The writers didn't give historical context because they assumed current readers during those days already knew about what tattoos signified.

Yes, "cults".
Cult def: The other guy's religion.
 
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Well, ironically, you have come to a similar conclusion as Christians have--Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law.
"Now before faith came, we were imprisoned and guarded under the law until faith would be revealed. Therefore the law was our disciplinarian until Christ came, so that we my justified by faith." Galatians 3:23

The truth has set us free. You are free of the laws that were made in Old Testament because you have your Spirit.

"The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control."-Galatians 5: 22

That is why Jesus gave said this is the most important law "Love yourself as you love thy neighbor." What possibly bad can come from that law? Like you said yourself, we are redeemed from the old laws of the Old Testament.
 
Well, ironically, you have come to a similar conclusion as Christians have--Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law.
"Now before faith came, we were imprisoned and guarded under the law until faith would be revealed. Therefore the law was our disciplinarian until Christ came, so that we my justified by faith." Galatians 3:23

The truth has set us free. You are free of the laws that were made in Old Testament because you have your Spirit.

"The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control."-Galatians 5: 22

That is why Jesus gave said this is the most important law "Love yourself as you love thy neighbor." What possibly bad can come from that law? Like you said yourself, we are redeemed from the old laws of the Old Testament.

Being redeemed from the old laws does not negate the actions of the Lord as described in the Old Testament. You don't find his explicit vindictiveness and anger the least bit troubling? Not to mention the triviality of his directives?
 
I would add "Gone with the Wind", "Peyton Place", the "Harry Potter" series, and "Hunger Games" to your list.



Yes, "cults".
Cult def: The other guys religion.


And just to clarify. I do not believe the "other guys religion" is a cult. Far from it. Islam, Judaism and Christianity, the Rasta movement all acknowledge one Jah, but different prophets. Buddha and Hinduism are not cults--they are equal religions who acknowledge that there is something more than your flesh.
 
come on guys, chill on the religious debate. Literally has nothing to do with this thread. You aren't going to convince either party to accept jesus or denounce him.

religion-vs-atheism-religion-atheism-argument-demotivational-poster-1219977036.jpg
 
Look, I'm done now. I'm not trying to convince anyone or convert anyone. If you have question go talk to a Rabbi-seriously, I'm not even kidding. I started going to Shabbat as a Christian, and it was a wonderful experience. I learned a lot. I also started visiting Buddhist temple-not to be converted, just to learn and gain some respect for how people see the world.


Love yourself as you love your neighbor.
 
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Look, I'm done now. I'm not trying to convince anyone or convert anyone. If you have question go talk to a Rabbi-seriously, I'm not even kidding. I started going to Shabbat as a Christian, and it was a wonderful experience. I learned a lot.

Love yourself as you love your neighbor.

Ironically enough, when I began to question my faith, I turned to the Bible, which is why I'm now an atheist. But I'll leave it alone. Tiedyeddog is right, there's no point in having this conversation.
 
In response to the OP, be really careful how you portray yourself in your application. Even though I am a Christian, I would be wary of an applicant whose main focus on their PS is a religious experience. The reason being that there are a lot of religious individuals that are incapable of separating their religion and their work. In medicine, it is very important to be able to respect other's believes and values, and if you are one of those Christians that always has to try to convince people that your beliefs are better than theirs, you won't make a good doctor (or a good person in general, in my opinion). Taking that into context, I might not want you in my medical school, because I would be afraid that you would be one of "those" Christians.

Definitely talk about who you are and your road to finding your desire to become a physician. But, be cognizant of who your readers are. At the end of the day, what is more important to you: Becoming a physician or making sure that everyone the reads your PS knows your a Christian? I worked in ministry for 4 years before I decided I wanted to be a physician. Were those 4 years a big part of my decision? You bet they were, and I included that stuff in my PS. But, while religious undertones were in my PS, I didn't focus on them.
 
Ironically enough, when I began to question my faith, I turned to the Bible, which is why I'm now an atheist. But I'll leave it alone. Tiedyeddog is right, there's no point in having this conversation.
everyone is religious until they actually read their holy book...then they usually turn to agnosticism.
 
There is a long leap between "I believe a personal god is impossible" (trying to prove a negative) and "I don't believe a personal god exists" (I have seen no evidence to prove otherwise, nor do I ever expect to).

Much of the rest of your points fit into the "god of the gaps" argument that many people far more knowledgeable than I (including NDT, likely in that same speech you mention) have refuted. Humans not having perfect explanations for everything around them is hardly proof of divine intervention, it simple points to a current lack of knowledge. 2000 years ago lightening was Zeus expressing his anger, everyone KNEW that to be true. We have a slightly different view today.

All of that is rather moot since my first post in this thread was NOT an attack on religion, but rather on whether or not it was a wise decision to include talk of miracles in one's personal statement. It seems even the OP agrees that it would be risky to do so.

Agreed on all things. Never said your post was an attack on religion. I just wanted to give a counter example of your assumption that "doctors must mostly not believe in a personal god because 85% of scientists don't believe in a personal god." Sorry if I digressed I guess... Like I said, CALM DOWN. In a post earlier, I also agreed that it will be risky to do that and gave a suggestion to OP.


Ok, I believe I found the data you two were talking about. The "75% of doctors believe in miracles" likely came from a study done by an obviously biased organization, HCD Research and the Louis Finkelstein Institute for Religious and Social Studies of the Jewish Theological Seminary in New York. I can't prove it was biased so that is not a point I will emphasize, but that data was not published in any journal and is not peer reviewed. link = http://www.hcdi.net/News/PressRelease.cfm?ID=47

For another, the study design sucks, apparently. They only asked doctors who associated with a specific religion if they believed miracles could occur. They didn't ask religious, but without a specific tradition, what they felt. That's stupid. They specifically picked a group of physicians to prune away unwanted data and then acted like the data was representation of ALL doctors. Beyond that, after actually trying to find a paper on their claims, I can find none. Any group that hides their methods can not be trusted to yield solid data....

Here is a paper clarifying the religiosity in physicians in the united states, actually published in the Journal of General Internal Medicine. ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1490160/ ) About 50 percent of physicians are religious and spiritual (which I take means participate in a specific religious tradition). Many people are affiliated with specific religions, but that doesn't clarifying their personal beliefs. I just want to point out that this data was gathered via a random sampling of physicians via mailing out questionnaires and only had a 63% response rate, which makes me wonder if those who are more religious were more likely to respond in the first place.

In summation, maybe 75% of doctors who already believe in a religion based on miracles, would believe in miracles in modern day. Yeah, that's obvious. I really doubt if you had a true representational sampling of physicians that even 50% would believe in miracles.

Awesome doubt man. Glad you are defending your faith. Like you said, without any proof that the sample was not a random sample, I'm going to remain skeptical and not be biased on any sides. There is no reason to assume but "55% said that they have seen treatment results in their patients that they would consider miraculous." I don't think this is based on faith, but based on sight. They basically testify that they SAW the miracle. But who knows? maybe they were all paid to make that up lol. But again, no reason to assume in either direction. I can personally say that I know a few people who experienced this miraculous healings and the evidence is RIGHT THERE. Some of them, being non-believers, end up committing their lives to religion! But of course, everything MUST happen in a consistent, tangible-to-human ways right? Laws of sciences are expressions of what goes on in nature in a consistent manner. Doesn't explain the possibilities of inconsistent phenomena.
Anyways, most people in the United States are religious. Below is the link to CIA World Factbook that gives information(like religion) about the world basically, go to the United States, People and Society. Only 12% unaffiliated, 4% none. Also, look at the World section as well for information on world religion for fun sake.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html
50% of physicians being religious looks random to me. as 84% of the United States population are religious. In fact, I'm having doubts that mostly NON-religious people participated in the survey worrying that they will be underrepresented lol. But as promised, I won't assume. :)
HONESTLY, 55% of physicians reporting that they witnessed miracles is NOT something to be overlooked. Even a 10% would be interesting to look at in my opinion.
and I also looked at your picture, if this some how offends you (can't imagine how), I would like to apologize sincerely. I actually enjoy talking about this stuff (call me weird, I don't care) and I assume that you will welcome a comment about what you said about the statistics. If you REALLY have a heart against digression and want to stop this, don't comment about it anymore. This is my last post.
 
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To all of you on here who don't understand atheism let me correct you:

Atheists have no belief if god(s)

NOT

Atheists believe there is no god(s)

There is a huge difference. If atheists believed there is no god, then they would be committing just a big of a logical fallacy as theists.

Get it correct before acting like you know what you're talking about.
 
I understand the great potential for the miracle to seem unbelievable and false to many who would read about it. I anticipate many to scoff at my application and challenge the veracity of my life's events, as I likely would have done years ago to someone whose application entailed a similar experience. There is no medical explanation for my healing, and I am 100% confident it was of divine intervention.

I like how you see divine intervention as a more likely explanation than anomalous recovery.
 
Awesome doubt man. Glad you are defending your faith. Like you said, without any proof that the sample was not a random sample, I'm going to remain skeptical and not be biased on any sides. There is no reason to assume but "55% said that they have seen treatment results in their patients that they would consider miraculous." I don't think this is based on faith, but based on sight. They basically testify that they SAW the miracle. But who knows? maybe they were all paid to make that up lol. But again, no reason to assume in either direction. I can personally say that I know a few people who experienced this miraculous healings and the evidence is RIGHT THERE. Some of them, being non-believers, end up committing their lives to religion! But of course, everything MUST happen in a consistent, tangible-to-human ways right? Laws of sciences are expressions of what goes on in nature in a consistent manner. Doesn't explain the possibilities of inconsistent phenomena.
Anyways, most people in the United States are religious. Below is the link to CIA World Factbook that gives information(like religion) about the world basically, go to the United States, People and Society. Only 12% unaffiliated, 4% none. Also, look at the World section as well for information on world religion for fun sake.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html
50% of physicians being religious looks random to me. as 84% of the United States population are religious. In fact, I'm having doubts that mostly NON-religious people participated in the survey worrying that they will be underrepresented lol. But as promised, I won't assume. :)
HONESTLY, 55% of physicians reporting that they witnessed miracles is NOT something to be overlooked. Even a 10% would be interesting to look at in my opinion.
and I also looked at your picture, if this some how offends you (can't imagine how), I would like to apologize sincerely. I actually enjoy talking about this stuff (call me weird, I don't care) and I assume that you will welcome a comment about what you said about the statistics. If you REALLY have a heart against digression and want to stop this, don't comment about it anymore. This is my last post.

As it pertains to the OP's concern, maybe that statistic is relevant. But in any other context, it doesn't mean a whole lot. I stopped putting stock in polling statistics after hearing 46% of Americans believe God created human beings less than 10,000 yrs ago, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Moving on. OP, because it appears you are in all likelihood not a troll, I guess I owe you a serious answer to your question. As others have stated, it's probably not a wise idea to go into too much detail about a miraculous event you experienced. Regardless of what statistics have been thrown out there, the fact remains that you are more likely to alienate your reader than to have your thoughts fall on sympathetic ears. And in either case, you're taking a lot of risk for arguably little reward, IMO. If you're smart enough to score a 43 on the MCAT, then you're probably equipped with the necessary discretion to earn a spot in medical school. Good luck, I wish you well.

And if you are a troll, then you will most certainly do very well in the application process. :laugh:
 
I don't think this is based on faith, but based on sight. They basically testify that they SAW the miracle. But who knows? maybe they were all paid to make that up lol. But again, no reason to assume in either direction. I can personally say that I know a few people who experienced this miraculous healings and the evidence is RIGHT THERE. Some of them, being non-believers, end up committing their lives to religion! But of course, everything MUST happen in a consistent, tangible-to-human ways right?

personal anecdotes that aren't even your own without any details and random words capitalized here and there. strong work, i guess i'm going to temple now.
 
If anyone still cares to talk about the OP's issue here's my view :)
Sharing your religious views in the appropriate time and place is fine (like if you join the Christian med student club most med schools have or if one of your patients ASKS you to pray with them), but if I were evaluating a med school applicant and their personal statement made a big fuss over their views (positive OR negative) about religion, my impression would be that this is someone who doesn't have a good sense of professional boundaries.
To me, people of any religious view should recognize that a personal statement is part of a job interview, and a job interview is not the right time or place for political or religious commentary unless you're trying to get hired by an organization that is promoting some religious or political cause.

When I think of my colleagues in residency, we have Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and atheists along with Christians. If I were evaluating a med school applicant, anything that made me question if the person would be able to get along with people of other religious views would definitely be a red flag.
 
Come on now what are you talking about? Where in the world do you get the idea that atheists are somehow the open minded super power about things? They have opinions just like evryone else and they are not big fans of religion. So why would you think they are going to open arms welcome this guy , that cant even stick around to defend his faith, to the forum?
Come on bro they make a good case. If you disagree state why and make your case

Maybe if you actually read the entirety thread you would see he said a couple times he had gotten his answer aka the point of the thread and had specific reasons for not replying to the thread. Just because you and I want to start a "religion war" as someone has said earlier "inb4religionwar" doesn't mean we all do :D. Also to the bolded part...yes, because that is what usually happens on a pre-medical allopathic forum. *sarcasm*

With my first grade reading level I was able to get through the Bible, and, taking it at face value, I learned the following things:

Homosexuality is an abomination (Leviticus 18:22), tattoos are sins (Leviticus 19:28); people who work on Sundays need to be killed (Exodus 35:2); eating pork or bacon is a sin (Leviticus 11:8); if your son is stubborn and rebellious, you need to execute him in public (Deuteronomy 21:18-21); and you can't cut your sideburns or shave your beard (Leviticus 19:27).

Few other things we have to believe about God in the Bible: God told Jews to kill every Amalekite man, woman, children, infants, oxen, sheep, camels and donkeys (1 Samuel 15:3). Oh yeah, by the way, thou shalt not kill.. God will kill you if you pull out (Genesis 38:9-10), but it's okay for a daughter to get her dad drunk and breed with him (Genesis 19:31-32). If you had testicular cancer and had to get them removed, you are no longer allowed in church (Deuteronomy 23:1) and probably won't go to heaven. Women need to submit to their husband in everything, no matter what (Ephesians 5:24). Women cannot teach, and they should shut up (1 Timothy 2:12). If you rape a virgin girl, you need to marry her and pay her father off (Deuteronomy 22:28-29). And last but not least, here is my favorite Bible verse we are all instructed to abide by: If you're fighting a guy, and your wife comes to aid you and grabs your opponent by the balls, you need to cut your wife's hand off (Deuteronomy 25:11-12).

So with that, I'd say Yahweh does care very much about what you do with your genitals, and his partiality and vindictiveness have been paid for, time and time again, with the blood of his own creation. Now that's only my first grade understanding of Christian theology, so forgive me if I'm being puerile and ignorant.

Considering OP is probably Catholic (judging from name and other relevant info in thread), he probably places much greater emphasis on the NT, like StJude said in his/her post.

Also, you are mistaking the connotative truth associated with the Ephesians verse. Oddly enough, you also missed the next few verses. I noticed you so kindly left them out...here you'll see they have significant importance toward the connotation:

24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

As for the ridiculous verses you named...yes, I'm pretty sure most Christians today and even the pope agree to their ridiculousness. Perhaps you and KPcrew should open your eyes a little. One thing I've noticed with a few (smarter) religious people is at least they took the time to seriously look at what other religions teach. Clearly you have not. Perhaps you should take a theology or even philosophy class to work on your knowledge instead of demeaning everything you hear that goes against your current beliefs(good thing they're introducing at least a little more non-science into the 2015 mcat, if not those 2 subjects :cool: )

Perhaps if you actually read the Bible instead of reading random verses off some random site with the goal of making you believe the whole "cult" is a ridiculous fallacy, you would gain a better understanding. Also as StJude wrote in his/her post, Jesus gave us the most important rule to overshadow any previous rule of Judaism (not knocking Judaism) or the OT: John 13:34-35
34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
No man can argue against the honor of this.


Why is it that God, supposed omniscient creator of the universe, is seemingly incapable of delivering a message to his people that transcends time? It's as if, for example, I was God, and with my one written message to all of creation, I chose to advise them on how to properly store and maintain a cassette player. Come on! There's a reason so many things in the Old Testament aren't applicable to our lives today, and it doesn't take several years in seminary school to figure it out.

Edit: And by saying "it's really important to get a historical view of the Bible," you're only reinforcing my point.

You are looking for the NT and Jesus' teachings then, my friend.


Anyway, that's my 2 cents....+1 for religious debate but the point of the OPs question has already been answered-ur2l8out
 
Maybe if you actually read the entirety thread you would see he said a couple times he had gotten his answer aka the point of the thread and had specific reasons for not replying to the thread. Just because you and I want to start a "religion war" as someone has said earlier "inb4religionwar" doesn't mean we all do :D. Also to the bolded part...yes, because that is what usually happens on a pre-medical allopathic forum. *sarcasm*



Considering OP is probably Catholic (judging from name and other relevant info in thread), he probably places much greater emphasis on the NT, like StJude said in his/her post.

Also, you are mistaking the connotative truth associated with the Ephesians verse. Oddly enough, you also missed the next few verses. I noticed you so kindly left them out...here you'll see they have significant importance toward the connotation:

24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

As for the ridiculous verses you named...yes, I'm pretty sure most Christians today and even the pope agree to their ridiculousness. Perhaps you and KPcrew should open your eyes a little. One thing I've noticed with a few (smarter) religious people is at least they took the time to seriously look at what other religions teach. Clearly you have not. Perhaps you should take a theology or even philosophy class to work on your knowledge instead of demeaning everything you hear that goes against your current beliefs(good thing they're introducing at least a little more non-science into the 2015 mcat, if not those 2 subjects :cool: )

Perhaps if you actually read the Bible instead of reading random verses off some random site with the goal of making you believe the whole "cult" is a ridiculous fallacy, you would gain a better understanding. Also as StJude wrote in his/her post, Jesus gave us the most important rule to overshadow any previous rule of Judaism (not knocking Judaism) or the OT: John 13:34-35
34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
No man can argue against the honor of this.




You are looking for the NT and Jesus' teachings then, my friend.


Anyway, that's my 2 cents....+1 for religious debate but the point of the OPs question has already been answered-ur2l8out

In regards to the first bolded statement, I'm not a big fan of cherry picking.

Next, I wasted 18 yrs of my life reading that garbage. I've read the Bible from cover to cover. I also minored in philosophy, because I actually give a damn about the meaning of our existence. You do not want to have this argument with me, and you won't get the chance, because as I and others have noted, there's no point in bogging down this thread with an unrelated discussion.
 
HONESTLY, 55% of physicians reporting that they witnessed miracles is NOT something to be overlooked. Even a 10% would be interesting to look at in my opinion.
and I also looked at your picture, if this some how offends you (can't imagine how), I would like to apologize sincerely. I actually enjoy talking about this stuff (call me weird, I don't care) and I assume that you will welcome a comment about what you said about the statistics. If you REALLY have a heart against digression and want to stop this, don't comment about it anymore. This is my last post.

I am not offended by anything you're saying. I personally don't care what anyone believes but if history has taught us anything, it is that we should never label anything a "miracle" and undeniably call it that. Just because we don't understand something doesn't mean it is then undeniably a miracle. Even highly educated doctors don't know everything. Could it be a miracle? Of course it could. Could it not be? Of course.

I don't even really want to argue about religion, or the semantics of miracles, but I made my point about your data in scientific terms. The actual peer reviewed paper doesn't mention the word "miracles" once in it's body. The poor quality study you cited saying "75% of doctors believe in miracles" is not science, as far as I can tell. How many physicians were questioned in that study, btw? ten? twenty? one hundred?

No where did any credible study I have read say "55% of doctors believe in miracles". If you would like to cite one I will read it.
 
Maybe if you actually read the entirety thread you would see he said a couple times he had gotten his answer aka the point of the thread and had specific reasons for not replying to the thread. Just because you and I want to start a "religion war" as someone has said earlier "inb4religionwar" doesn't mean we all do :D. Also to the bolded part...yes, because that is what usually happens on a pre-medical allopathic forum. *sarcasm*



Considering OP is probably Catholic (judging from name and other relevant info in thread), he probably places much greater emphasis on the NT, like StJude said in his/her post.

Also, you are mistaking the connotative truth associated with the Ephesians verse. Oddly enough, you also missed the next few verses. I noticed you so kindly left them out...here you'll see they have significant importance toward the connotation:

24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

As for the ridiculous verses you named...yes, I'm pretty sure most Christians today and even the pope agree to their ridiculousness. Perhaps you and KPcrew should open your eyes a little. One thing I've noticed with a few (smarter) religious people is at least they took the time to seriously look at what other religions teach. Clearly you have not. Perhaps you should take a theology or even philosophy class to work on your knowledge instead of demeaning everything you hear that goes against your current beliefs(good thing they're introducing at least a little more non-science into the 2015 mcat, if not those 2 subjects :cool: )

Perhaps if you actually read the Bible instead of reading random verses off some random site with the goal of making you believe the whole "cult" is a ridiculous fallacy, you would gain a better understanding. Also as StJude wrote in his/her post, Jesus gave us the most important rule to overshadow any previous rule of Judaism (not knocking Judaism) or the OT: John 13:34-35
34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
No man can argue against the honor of this.




You are looking for the NT and Jesus' teachings then, my friend.


Anyway, that's my 2 cents....+1 for religious debate but the point of the OPs question has already been answered-ur2l8out

loool
 
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Say what you want about the OT, atleast that God only punished us as long as we were on this earth. It took the NT to clarify that "nope, even after we die God's still gona make you hurt"
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OP, while faith is an important aspect of your personal life, the admissions essay to medical school is generally not the best place to discuss it. I'll give you a few reasons why this is not a good idea:

1. Many ad com members are physicians. During their own medical practice, the vast majority will have experienced frustrations with patient non-compliance due to religious or cultural beliefs. That is, patients refusing the most medically sound course of treatment because their religion dictates otherwise. (If you are interested, I suggest reading "The Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down" to get a sense of the frustration and negative impacts of cross-cultural misunderstanding.)

2. The study of western medicine is evidence based. Medical advances happen through data-driven research and the peer-review process. Faith and miracles, by definition, require an individual to believe something without adequate data -- this is fundamentally opposite to the ethos of modern western medicine.

3. The history of medicine is littered with quacks who claimed religious-based healing. In many cases, this has led to harm for the patients. I'm not questioning the validity of your religious beliefs, but you do not want your application to be associated with notions of quack healers.


So in this already competitive application process, why stack the odds further against yourself? Don't be dishonest, but also be smart about the application process. I'm sure you have many non-religious experiences that are also important to your life.
 
34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
No man can argue against the honor of this.

And thus ends the homosexuality debate? Seems pretty clear to me.


Oh...wait...
 
Why can't we all just be friends?
I'm sure you know if it wasn't religion we'd find something else to argue about. most people are just contentious. I know I am :) (...sometimes, it depends on what the issue is)
 
True, most people have a ton of stuff on their plates. Guess it's just agree to disagree.

But we can all agree on getting into med school!! :thumbup::love::cool:
 
with a 43 on the MCAT, it should be obvious that there is no need to even write a personal statement
 
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