Study Drugs

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IHaveLab

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Okay, guys...I need to vent a little. I'm sitting in the computer lab, working on some PChem, and another pre-med student is sitting next to me. She just cavalierly got out her cell phone, called a friend, and asked this person to come by the lab and bring her some Adderall. Are study drugs that accepted now that you don't even have to be covert about using them?

Moreover, as a none-study drug user, the use of drugs to enhance studying really bothers me. First, if you can't cut it in school without drugs, then you have a problem with your study skills (not to say that if you have diagnosed ADD/ADHD you shouldn't take your prescribed drugs--clearly, if the doctor thinks you need medication to help you focus, that's cool). Second, I worry that study drug users have an unfair advantage...if you're using Adderall and can concentrate intensely for 6 hours, whereas I can really only concentrate for 3 hours at a time, I'm at a disadvantage. The whole thing really irks me.

Any thoughts?
 
Don't envy her. She is screwing herself. ADHD drugs and adderall in particular are extremely harsh on the body and brain. She will pay for this. For every action, there is a consequence.
 
You are absolutely correct: drugs not used for their prescribed purpose do give an unfair advantage. They're almost like steroids in athletics.

However, just like steroids, they have severe side effects. A person who uses them will hurt themselves in the process. One common side effect is burnout: after use of such drugs constantly for many days, a person just can't focus anymore.
 
i was walking by this girl outside, and she was just chatting it up saying how she could procrastinate, she has some adderall lol. To talk about this in public seems crazy to me, but i guess its mainstream now. If i ever do drugs to study, i know its time to take a break from school, its just not worth it.
 
I know of several non premed students who pop adderall to cram all night, and some who do it on a regular basis. I think its sad and needs to be put out in public so something can be done about it, as well as the immense amount of painkillers being taken by teenagers/young adults. Its really sad and very prevelant
 
IHaveLab said:
Okay, guys...I need to vent a little. I'm sitting in the computer lab, working on some PChem, and another pre-med student is sitting next to me. She just cavalierly got out her cell phone, called a friend, and asked this person to come by the lab and bring her some Adderall. Are study drugs that accepted now that you don't even have to be covert about using them?

Moreover, as a none-study drug user, the use of drugs to enhance studying really bothers me. First, if you can't cut it in school without drugs, then you have a problem with your study skills (not to say that if you have diagnosed ADD/ADHD you shouldn't take your prescribed drugs--clearly, if the doctor thinks you need medication to help you focus, that's cool). Second, I worry that study drug users have an unfair advantage...if you're using Adderall and can concentrate intensely for 6 hours, whereas I can really only concentrate for 3 hours at a time, I'm at a disadvantage. The whole thing really irks me.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Are you at Washington & Lee or VMI? I saw Lexington Va.

If you are at W&L, congrats...it's a great LAC.

Nothing substantial about add drugs though.
 
Going along with the steroids analogy above, it does you no good to worry about it. Some people resort to shortcuts and may gain a temporary and unfair advantage in doing so, but you just have to focus on yourself and what you can do naturally. Don't let it bother you.
 
depression will set in eventually.
 
playing devil's advocate for a moment, one could argue that since adderall and ritalin have therapeutic uses, any individual who feels unable to study without them should probably have a prescription in the first place.

in the respect that anabolic steroids have no legitimate therapeutic use in the world of athletic competition, the analogy is invalid.

if you're among those who believe adderall and ritalin should have no therapeutic use, and that ADHD as an organic disorder does not exist (as opposed to a socially imposed attention defecit <read, TV>), then (and only then) can a fellow student's use of adderall rationally upset you. and if you are of that persuasion, i'd love to hear you tiptoe around the issue if it comes up during an admissions committee interview. :meanie:
 
zahque said:
in the respect that anabolic steroids have no legitimate therapeutic use in the world of athletic competition, the analogy is invalid.
Click to expand...

Not true. Anabolics can be used to speed up recovery following injuries, i.e. muscle tears, etc. They may even be able to help prevent injuries if the athlete is overtraining--I'm just speculating. But yeah, the analogy isn't that great.
 
NapeSpikes said:
Not true. Anabolics can be used to speed up recovery following injuries, i.e. muscle tears, etc. They may even be able to help prevent injuries if the athlete is overtraining--I'm just speculating. But yeah, the analogy isn't that great.
Click to expand...

that may be true of physical rehab in general, but there is no organized sport in which anabolic steroids have any permissible use.
 
You won't get burned out by taking adderall unless you get cracked out on it for a few days straight. Secondly, who cares if anyone takes adderall to do better. To each his own.
 
every stimulant has a crash.
 
indo said:
depression will set in eventually.
Click to expand...
Totally unrelated to this thread, but indo, I love your avatar. We actually have this sign in our hospital and I have no idea what it is supposed to mean. Elevators? Menage-a-trois? Gender confused people? HELP?
 
Originally posted by indo
every stimulant has a crash
Click to expand...

True, but if taken in moderation adderall will not cause a severe enough crash to have adverse effects on the user.
 
I think adderall has become more mainstream. What i find funny is i guess the irony/hipocracy/(can't think of the right word right now) of some pre-meds and college students in general. They will jump on the opportunity to get some adderall so to help them study, but look down on people who blaze up at parties. Just because one of them comes in a pill form doesn't mean its any better. Besides, i've got a friend who studies better while high.

But alas, I digress...i dont want to throw marijuana into the mix.
 
double post. see below
 
a good friend of mine is the laziest bastard any of you will ever meet. he would sit around watching television all day, drink 5 nights a week and then cram 2 nights in advance for all his tests (using copious amounts of adderall/\dexedrine). he graduated with a 3.75 from the business school, having taken all of his science reqs as well (his sci gpa is about a 3.7). he just recently got a 36 on his mcat. unfair advantage? debatable... but to each his own. i just dont see how he's gonna pull that off for 4 years in med school and beyond.
-mota
 
I use caffeine to help me study sometimes. Does that make me a study-drug user?
 
nope. just makes u a caffeine abuser, like I am sometimes. Caffeine only makes you think that you can absorb better. You don't learn any better on it or off it (yes, I know it helps keep you up. still doesn't mean that the extra time you're up you're able to learn any better than if you were falling asleep on the page).

*cheers with his cup of coffee*
 
the only reason anyone has anything bad to say about it is because they are too big of wusses to seek it out and try it out for themselves. I've been using adderoll since I was 15. Though I've got a prescription for it, anyone can get one if you tell a physician the well known "symptoms" of ADHD. There is no clear way of distinguishing between people with and without the disorder. Because of that, to say that "drugs not used for their prescribed purpose do give an unfair advantage. They're almost like steroids in athletics." is completely ridiculous. Who is to say that the people who have been prescribed it really need it in the first place?

Also, it doesnt cause "burnout" or severe inability to focus if you're not on it. There's so much more that I would like to say, but since this is an anonymous internet forum I don't want to waste more time.

Just read the opposite of everything "blue planet" said if you want to know whats up.
 
For the curious among us:

Adderall side effects from rxlist.com:

Cardiovascular: Palpitations, tachycardia, elevation of blood pressure There have been isolated reports of cardiomyopathy associated with chronic amphetamine use.

Central Nervous System: Psychotic episodes at recommended doses (rare), overstimulation, restlessness. dizziness, insomnia, euphoria. dyskinesia, dysphoria, tremor, headache, exacerbation of motor and phonictics and Tourette's syndrome.

Gastrointestinal: Dryness of the mouth, unpleasant taste, diarrhea, constipation, other gastrointestinal disturbances. Anorexia and weight loss may occur as undesirable effects when amphetamines are used for other than the anorectic effect.

Allergic: Urticaria.

Endocrine: Impotence. Changes in libido.

Disclamer: I take no respobsibility for the accuracy of the quoted text. Consult the website for any further info.
 
My main point is that someone should not be using drugs that are not prescribed to them. Whether the person needs the medications is up to the physicians to decide, not the individual, accordining to our system of medical care.

I agree with you: the diagnostic criteria for ADHD are vague and easily fabricated. Such a criticism should be directed toward psychiatry rather than individuals complaining about use of prescription drugs.

By the way, here's a link from Slate magazine describing the effects of Adderall: http://www.slate.com/id/2118315/
 
As sad as using "study drugs" is, I gotta at least give the piracetam kids credit for keeping up with the research.
 
"Endocrine: Impotence"

everything reward has its sacrifice.
 
goldfish85 said:
"Endocrine: Impotence"

everything reward has its sacrifice.
Click to expand...

yeah, but how common is it and how easily fixed is it. That's the dangers of just finding a list of potential side effects. Majority of them are so rare as to not be factored into their use.

I don't care if people use it to gain an unfair advantage. I do just fine w/o it. I just think anyone who uses it and doesn't need it cause of signficant impairment from ADHD or something similar is pathetic and can't cut it on their own. But if they wanna use a crutch, that's their perogative. I just hope they'll continue to at least be nice enough to use it for their entire career so that they don't get a drop-off in their ability to keep up w/ medicine.
 
I overall dont agree about adderell at all. It seems like society is trying to find a quick fix for everything. Your kid jumpy? He/she must have ADHD. Here's some pills. Does anyone else think this is wrong? I thought jumpiness was sign of being a kid. Well at least there'll be a quick fix for that impotence, when that adderell kicks in. psh!
 
I think he's talking about Full Metal Alchemist. Anime geeks UUUU-NITE!
 
So I will just go out there and say that I use adderal probably about once in a period of 2 months or so. And no, I do not have a prescription. For the majority of the semester, I get time to study on a regular basis. Sometimes with the combination of playing football, work, the large amount of labs reports and studying... studying will get pushed off until the last day. This is a rare event but does ocassionally happen. I have no problem with taking adderal in moderation and studying for 9-10 hours on that day.

I find my case of taking it on a rare basis is alot better then most people that I know in college that have a prescription and completely lied about the symptoms to get the medciation.

I have extremely hard times concentrating while studying, paying the least bit attention in class, but I don't go to the doctor and get a prescription so I can take this pill on a daily basis. I am sure I could go there and tell them my symptoms and they would give me a script... but, I wouldn't want to take Adderal on a daily basis because of the noticable side effects that I get including dry mouth, and lack of appetite.

So I guess if you guys consider me a cheater... I guess that I will come out and say that I cheat every month or two when I am behind.
 
zahque said:
if you're among those who believe adderall and ritalin should have no therapeutic use, and that ADHD as an organic disorder does not exist (as opposed to a socially imposed attention defecit <read, TV>), then (and only then) can a fellow student's use of adderall rationally upset you. and if you are of that persuasion, i'd love to hear you tiptoe around the issue if it comes up during an admissions committee interview. :meanie:
Click to expand...

Isn't it true, though, that no one has found any difference in the body chemistry of people "with" ADD and without it? It doesn't seem like it would be all that hard to defend yourself if you don't believe ADD is a real disorder.
 
not sure. but it would be attempting to overturn a status-quo position in medicine, albeit one that has come under some fire from many physicians themselves. you always have to be careful on that sort of ground during an interview.
 
Rendar5 said:
nope. just makes u a caffeine abuser, like I am sometimes. Caffeine only makes you think that you can absorb better. You don't learn any better on it or off it (yes, I know it helps keep you up. still doesn't mean that the extra time you're up you're able to learn any better than if you were falling asleep on the page).

*cheers with his cup of coffee*
Click to expand...

Hahaha I find it amusing that a thread entitled "Study drugs" only has 2 posts in reference to caffeine, when caffeine is undoubtedly the most commonly used drug amongst students, especially for purposes of studying.
 
WholeLottaGame7 said:
Hahaha I find it amusing that a thread entitled "Study drugs" only has 2 posts in reference to caffeine, when caffeine is undoubtedly the most commonly used drug amongst students, especially for purposes of studying.
Click to expand...

Haha, so true!

Viva Starbucks! (my friends and I stay at a 24-hour one and actually have espresso-shot parties before studying. I sometimes wonder how my brain is handling it...)
 
nick661806 said:
Isn't it true, though, that no one has found any difference in the body chemistry of people "with" ADD and without it? It doesn't seem like it would be all that hard to defend yourself if you don't believe ADD is a real disorder.
Click to expand...

J Neuropsychiatry Clin Neurosci. 2004 Winter;16(1):63-9. Related Articles, Links
Click here to read
Neurometabolic functioning and neuropsychological correlates in children with ADHD-H: preliminary findings.

Courvoisie H, Hooper SR, Fine C, Kwock L, Castillo M.

Department of Psychniatry and Behavioral Sciences, Johns Hopkins University Medical School, Baltimore, Maryland 21287, USA. [email protected]

Proton magnetic resonance spectroscopy (MRS) and neuropsychological testing were conducted on 8 children with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD-H), with no learning disabilities or comorbidities and 8 controls. Magnetic resonance spectroscopy revealed increased Glutamate/Glutamine in both frontal areas, and increased N-acetyl aspartate and Choline in the right frontal area of the ADHD-H subjects. Neuropsychological testing revealed few within- and between-group differences. Findings related to frontal lobe dysfunction in ADHD-H subjects were noted. N-acetylasparte/creatine (NAA/Creatine) in the right frontal region, and myoinositol/creatine (Myo inositol/Creatine) in the right and left frontal regions appear to be highly associated with the regulation of sensorimotor, language, and memory and learning functioning in children with ADHD-H.

PMID: 14990761 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 
So here is my thoughts -

Many will make the argument that ADD/ADHD is a made up disorder...while others will argue that it is very real. However, I think there is a bigger question underlying this one that does in fact relate to anabolic steroid use amongst professional (and often college/high school) atheletes and goes even beyond that. Clearly, we are all different. Our strengths and weaknesses lie in different areas. Can you say that pre-meds and pre-law students are smarter on average than those which may not be motivated to jump threw the same hoops that it takes to get to these career destinations? I think that the real question is a question for society:

How do we and should we level the playing field of life in its various areas and what is the effect of our decision or lack of decision?

If it is someone else's body, should they have the right to put in it whatever they want? Do we want to penalize those who do not want to put whatever it is in their body? Do we think that affirmative action is justified to exist today or should its influence increase? Is it fair that the wealthy have better access to healthcare that any human being may need? What about the student who is enrolled in substandard elementary/middle/high schools? How about the students diagnosed with ADD/ADHD - should they have increased testing time? Is it fair that students who simply do not take standardized tests well, yet have great GPAs from years of hard work have a brick wall put in front of them as they apply to college/graduate school, etc?

Attempts to level the playing fields never truly level them as the fields may not resemble a flat surface, but may be more like a sphere. Not a very clear analogy, I know, but the point is there. The very concept of leveling the playing field is a paradox in itself as one must take from someone else in order to assist another.

In closing, perhaps our Alchemists and/or Newtonian physics experts (who was ironically making fun of the "nerdy kids") may have had a point:

Fairness is neither created nor destroyed. For every action, there is a consequence.

Thoughts?
 
Kitra101 said:
So here is my thoughts -

Many will make the argument that ADD/ADHD is a made up disorder...while others will argue that it is very real. However, I think there is a bigger question underlying this one that does in fact relate to anabolic steroid use amongst professional (and often college/high school) atheletes and goes even beyond that. Clearly, we are all different. Our strengths and weaknesses lie in different areas. Can you say that pre-meds and pre-law students are smarter on average than those which may not be motivated to jump threw the same hoops that it takes to get to these career destinations? I think that the real question is a question for society:

How do we and should we level the playing field of life in its various areas and what is the effect of our decision or lack of decision?

If it is someone else's body, should they have the right to put in it whatever they want? Do we want to penalize those who do not want to put whatever it is in their body? Do we think that affirmative action is justified to exist today or should its influence increase? Is it fair that the wealthy have better access to healthcare that any human being may need? What about the student who is enrolled in substandard elementary/middle/high schools? How about the students diagnosed with ADD/ADHD - should they have increased testing time? Is it fair that students who simply do not take standardized tests well, yet have great GPAs from years of hard work have a brick wall put in front of them as they apply to college/graduate school, etc?

Attempts to level the playing fields never truly level them as the fields may not resemble a flat surface, but may be more like a sphere. Not a very clear analogy, I know, but the point is there. The very concept of leveling the playing field is a paradox in itself as one must take from someone else in order to assist another.

In closing, perhaps our Alchemists and/or Newtonian physics experts (who was ironically making fun of the "nerdy kids") may have had a point:

Fairness is neither created nor destroyed. For every action, there is a consequence.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I agree with much of what you said. 🙂
However, instead of contributing to your thoughtful conversation, I'd rather rant. People who don't have medical conditions yet use inappropriate drugs to help them focus have NO respect from me. It's a sign of weakness and desperation, and the people who resort to this aren't the ones at the top of the class anyway. They're often the ones about to fail.
 
I only read the first few posts, so forgive me if I bring up something previously mentioned.

As mentioned by the OP, these drugs are being taken at random, non prescribed times to extend a students ability to study intensel. Yes, this is unfair, and yes, they may burnout later....

But what about the long term effects of taking a drug like this? No doubt people who take this drug often will develop an addiction to it and therefore use it everytime they want to study to do well on test.

So over the years, they are using this drug. Is there a chance that this drug could have exteremely deleterious effects on them in later years? I mean, if you smoke for 4 years, and then suddenly stop, you have still scarred parts of your body, and increased your risk for certain diseases. Can the same be said for taking this drug?
 
Regardless of if it's fair or not, I think there's another issue here. What about the fact that all of these future doctors are abusing prescription medications that aren't prescribed to them?
 
Its hard to look down on someone for using adderal without knowing their situation. Maybe she was prescribed it? Personally, ive used adderal and ephedra to get me through the day. sometimes when the day starts at 5:30 with workouts, then class, meetings, treatment and football practice and then finally getting home around 8 its hard to do any studying or homework. Ive also popped Vicodin, percocet etc. just to get rid of some of the pain and body aches. Just saying you dont know the persons specific circumstances so you shouldnt judge
 
it's a shame that some people need drugs to get 98's in med school 🙁. it's further a shame that the people that use drugs usually still don't pull the 98's 🙁 🙁.
 
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