Stupid AOA/AACOM/ACOFP

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dostudent23

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It was announced this week that "AOA/AACOM Decline to Sign On to Proposed Unified Accreditation System"

Why, you ask?

"concern about the ... unintended consequences that could diminish osteopathic distinctiveness and our profession."

Does the AOA/AACOM not realize HOW FEW of their so-called constituents care about "osteopathic distinctiveness"?

This would be like Martin Luther King protesting school integration unless it included teaching of Ebonics.

Drop the attitude!!!

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please post link!
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Distinctive distinction champions of dis stinks!

Hello ,

AOA/AACOM Decline to Sign On to Proposed Unified Accreditation System
The AOA and American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine (AACOM) Boards independently voted this week to not sign the proposed memorandum of understanding that would have led to a unified residency accreditation system with the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME).

The AOA/AACOM action was communicated to the AOA House of Delegates today by AOA Trustee Boyd Buser, DO, FACOFP, who indicated that doors to future ACGME dialog would remain open despite the AOA/AACOM decision to not accept terms of the draft agreement.

The ACOFP Board has continuously provided input to the AOA/AACOM since the proposed unified accreditation system was introduced in October 2012. While aware of the unified system's possible benefits for students, the ACOFP was also concerned about possible far-reaching, unintended consequences that could diminish osteopathic distinctiveness and our profession.

I commend the AOA and AACOM elected leadership and executive staff for their hard work, for listening to all opinions, and for exercising restraint on this key issue for the future of the osteopathic profession.

The ACOFP will continue to work with the AOA and AACOM to refine its current accreditation system, to assure the quality of our 220 training programs, and to champion osteopathic distinctiveness.
 
From what I hear, the ACGME proposal was "take it or leave it" and AOA said, "no". Also, from what I hear, it was a good choice for the AOA. I don't know why, the proposals are non-disclosure from what my classmate at the meeting said.

. This is the text from the above link.
-----------
Support Continues for Discussions on Unified Accreditation System for GME

"Updated July 19, 2013

Over the last 18 months, the American Osteopathic Association (AOA) and the American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine (AACOM) have been exploring the possibility of a new unified graduate medical education (GME) accreditation system with the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME).

The AOA and AACOM announced during the AOA's Annual Business Meeting, held July 16-21, 2013, that to date they have been unsuccessful in reaching an agreement with ACGME on a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) for a unified graduate medical education accreditation system. However, the AOA and AACOM remain open to continued discussions with the ACGME.

The AOA and AACOM strongly believe that the health of the American public will benefit from a uniform path of preparation for the next generation of physicians designed to evaluate the effectiveness of GME programs in producing competent physicians.

The AOA also remains committed to protecting the distinctiveness and identity of the osteopathic medical profession including the five core principles that were significant to developing a unified graduate medical education accreditation system including:

The discussion is limited to GME and does not extend backward to undergraduate medical education or forward to licensing or certification.

The osteopathic medicine licensing examination (COMLEX-USA) remains in place and viable.

Osteopathic board certification remains in place and viable.

Osteopathic physicians must be given an equal opportunity to participate in all training programs under any unified accreditation system.

Any unified accreditation system must not adversely affect primary care programs in community-based settings.

The osteopathic medical profession will continue to grow OGME programs across the U.S. to ensure that all DO graduates have a place to train once they graduate. In fact, just this past year, more than 1,100 new OGME positions were created within 75 new programs. This means that now there are more than 12,000 osteopathic graduate medical education positions available.

We thank the osteopathic medical community for your feedback, your support and your patience during this discussion period. We can assure you that the AOA and AACOM remain strong in protecting the identity and distinctiveness of the osteopathic medical profession while ensuring that our training programs are of top quality.

Please ​email any questions to [email protected]."

----------
 
I've spoken out several times against "osteopathic distinctiveness", the AOA really doesn't seem to understand that vast majority of DOs don't practice manipulation after graduation because it is widely dis-proven.

The ACGME is willing to treat us as equals, but the AOA wants more.

Get off your high horse AOA!
 
"The COMLEX remains viable"....bahahaha
 
Anybody think this MOU will become public? I would love to know the details actually in it.
 
Wow.

I'm on board that the AOA seems distant from what our generation of DOs do and want, and I support the merger as much as the rest of us, but let me call a spade a spade here... If you endlessly wanted to be an MD, go there. It's odd (to put it mildly) to join the DO world and then talk endlessly negatively about it, unjustly ("OMM is widely disproven"? Just because cranial is bizarre and the research I've read hasn't lead anywhere doesn't mean low back treatment also doesn't do anything. Search the NEJM). We don't say "pharmacotherapy is BS" because a few drugs are taken off the market each year, we say "some drugs are great, others are not." Some of OMM is great, some is not.

Check out In-training.org later this week. I'm posting a piece about the vocal self-hating DO students, and I'm hardly an OMM guru or separationist OMS.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Wow.

I'm on board that the AOA seems distant from what our generation of DOs do and want, and I support the merger as much as the rest of us, but let me call a spade a spade here... If you endlessly wanted to be an MD, go there. It's odd (to put it mildly) to join the DO world and then talk endlessly negatively about it, unjustly ("OMM is widely disproven"? Just because cranial is bizarre and the research I've read hasn't lead anywhere doesn't mean low back treatment also doesn't do anything. Search the NEJM). We don't say "pharmacotherapy is BS" because a few drugs are taken off the market each year, we say "some drugs are great, others are not." Some of OMM is great, some is not.

Check out In-training.org later this week. I'm posting a piece about the vocal self-hating DO students, and I'm hardly an OMM guru or separationist OMS.

No it is not odd nor unjust to give the DO world a shot and then be repeatedly disappointed. This disappointment combined with huge debt = vocal "self-haters."

LOL at yes cranial is bizarre and there is really no or limited good OMM research but it still works!! Ugh gag me.
 
Wow.

I'm on board that the AOA seems distant from what our generation of DOs do and want, and I support the merger as much as the rest of us, but let me call a spade a spade here... If you endlessly wanted to be an MD, go there. It's odd (to put it mildly) to join the DO world and then talk endlessly negatively about it, unjustly ("OMM is widely disproven"? Just because cranial is bizarre and the research I've read hasn't lead anywhere doesn't mean low back treatment also doesn't do anything. Search the NEJM). We don't say "pharmacotherapy is BS" because a few drugs are taken off the market each year, we say "some drugs are great, others are not." Some of OMM is great, some is not.

Check out In-training.org later this week. I'm posting a piece about the vocal self-hating DO students, and I'm hardly an OMM guru or separationist OMS.

I don't think that most are DO-hating MD-wannabees, and I would think that most would also admit they feel OMM provides some benefits and it does have its place, in the correct hands (the latter of which is an interesting variable that lends to difficulty in OMM research). The average student just wants to see more- clarification, research, utilization of scientific method, etc- and less unsupported claims regarding the efficacy of OMM. Add that to the small percentage of DOs who utilize OMM in practice and it is of no wonder why this generation demands more and refuses to just believe in what sometimes comes off as a faith-based practice depending on the OPP lecturer.

The general theme we see in the complaints from students and residents is not one of self-hate, but rather that of frustration with a distinct group that does not seem representative of the whole. They experience this frustration for a couple of years, tell themselves they will distance themselves as far as possible from the AOA as soon as they can, and then that times comes. They're gone! It's not self-hate. It's frustration caused by the fact that they have very little, if any, control when it comes to those who supposedly represent them, yet seemingly do so inaccurately. The hate is not for their degree, but that rather how others represent it.
 
Wow.

I'm on board that the AOA seems distant from what our generation of DOs do and want, and I support the merger as much as the rest of us, but let me call a spade a spade here... If you endlessly wanted to be an MD, go there. It's odd (to put it mildly) to join the DO world and then talk endlessly negatively about it, unjustly ("OMM is widely disproven"? Just because cranial is bizarre and the research I've read hasn't lead anywhere doesn't mean low back treatment also doesn't do anything. Search the NEJM). We don't say "pharmacotherapy is BS" because a few drugs are taken off the market each year, we say "some drugs are great, others are not." Some of OMM is great, some is not.

Check out In-training.org later this week. I'm posting a piece about the vocal self-hating DO students, and I'm hardly an OMM guru or separationist OMS.

I think you are glossing over the issue with the classic "you should have gone to an MD school" BS. I think the major reason people are saying they wish they had gone MD is that the majority of students in our generation do not feel like there is a difference between a DO and MD, meanwhile a merger that effects our careers is delayed to retain "osteopathic distinctivness" whatever the hell that means. Cranial is junk, but your argument is the same scrappy one given to me by our omm staff, which is essentially the "if the patient feels better it works", that doesn't hold well with most. I have yet to meet a "self hating" DO who wants to be a MD...I have met plenty of DOs and students who are dissappointed with their leadership and wish they had made a different education decision, that doesn't =self hate

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
 
Wow.

I'm on board that the AOA seems distant from what our generation of DOs do and want, and I support the merger as much as the rest of us, but let me call a spade a spade here... If you endlessly wanted to be an MD, go there. It's odd (to put it mildly) to join the DO world and then talk endlessly negatively about it, unjustly ("OMM is widely disproven"? Just because cranial is bizarre and the research I've read hasn't lead anywhere doesn't mean low back treatment also doesn't do anything. Search the NEJM). We don't say "pharmacotherapy is BS" because a few drugs are taken off the market each year, we say "some drugs are great, others are not." Some of OMM is great, some is not.

Check out In-training.org later this week. I'm posting a piece about the vocal self-hating DO students, and I'm hardly an OMM guru or separationist

How are you a medical student?

Don't you ever question your education?

Stop drinking the kool aid...it people like this that constantly fights the inevitable and pushs out profession back to the stone age
 
OP, that seems a gross over simplification of why the current merger is on hold . Know that I am in favor of the merger but in recognizing the 5 core principles that the AOA is attempting to promote, which I feel are reasonable, the ACGME offered a recent one-sided offer. I don't believe the AOA/AACOM (can't speak for the ACOFP) is against this process moving forward but it has to be done in a mutually beneficial way. Rushing the details of the process, which is extremely complex does not benefit anyone and certainly will not occur overnight.
Change will happen (and certainly has for DOs over the past 30 years) but it will take some time.

I encourage all to take a half an hour and watch the video to get a simplified explanation of the development of where this process began, to where we are today and to where we go from here. By attending an osteopathic medical school you choose to join the profession and community it is part of. Don't react in high emotion or make hasty conclusions. Be part of the dialogue and keep voicing your opinion and thoughts in a constructive and respectful way and we will all be better for it in the end.

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Pages/acgme-hod-video.aspx
 
the ACGME offered a recent one-sided offer. I don't believe the AOA/AACOM (can't speak for the ACOFP) is against this process moving forward but it has to be done in a mutually beneficial way.

You say mutually beneficial but really what is the ACGME going to gain by giving up much ground? Already most of the best and the brightest flee the AOA for ACGME programs. Of course they're going to have a one sided offer.

This is another example of how the AOA is completely out of touch with reality and really just trying to preserve their own existence. Quite frankly is a conflict of interest. Once the merger happens and is a decade old the AOA is going to be nothing more than a memory of when quacks ran osteopathic medicine.
 
OP, that seems a gross over simplification of why the current merger is on hold . Know that I am in favor of the merger but in recognizing the 5 core principles that the AOA is attempting to promote, which I feel are reasonable, the ACGME offered a recent one-sided offer. I don't believe the AOA/AACOM (can't speak for the ACOFP) is against this process moving forward but it has to be done in a mutually beneficial way. Rushing the details of the process, which is extremely complex does not benefit anyone and certainly will not occur overnight.
Change will happen (and certainly has for DOs over the past 30 years) but it will take some time.

I encourage all to take a half an hour and watch the video to get a simplified explanation of the development of where this process began, to where we are today and to where we go from here. By attending an osteopathic medical school you choose to join the profession and community it is part of. Don't react in high emotion or make hasty conclusions. Be part of the dialogue and keep voicing your opinion and thoughts in a constructive and respectful way and we will all be better for it in the end.

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Pages/acgme-hod-video.aspx

All I got from this video was the AOA task force came to the table with stupid and unpopular non negotiables and were unwilling to make even the most basic compromises, leading to a back and forth for months with no progress, and finally, the presentation of a "deal or no deal" MOU (principle #2. COMLEX has to stay? Just add or negotiate in a bugs/drugs/OMM component to USMLE. If money is the issue, make us DOs pay heavily for this extra section. I'd gladly pay the extra $540 if it meant one or two extra sections and not a whole extra test. Principle #3. board certification has to remain completely independent? This makes nonnegotiable #4 impossible, there having to be a level playing field. How can a residency evaluate students if there isn't a common standard? We currently don't have a level playing field and DOs are encouraged to take USMLE for this reason, but somehow we expect one in the near future?), and one insanely subjective nonnegotiable I happen agree with in principle (no harm to the small community programs). Oh yeah, and there is the usual blame the government for not funding GME even though our profession has had huge growth in schooling full well knowing ~1/2 of DOs can get a spot in AOA residencies. This is understated considering we need much more than a 1:1 spots per applicant ratio. Then there's the blurb on IMGs taking 24% of ACGME spots, and how the Carib schools graduate more students than is the current shortfall in AOA DO residencies. Gotta love the subtle "they took our jobs" attitude... way to be progressive AOA!
 
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All I got from this video was the AOA task force came to the table with stupid and unpopular non negotiables and were unwilling to make even the most basic compromises, leading to a back and forth for months with no progress, and finally, the presentation of a "deal or no deal" MOU (principle #2. COMLEX has to stay? Just add or negotiate in a bugs/drugs/OMM component to USMLE. If money is the issue, make us DOs pay heavily for this extra section. I'd gladly pay the extra $540 if it meant one or two extra sections and not a whole extra test. Principle #3. board certification has to remain completely independent? This makes nonnegotiable #4 impossible, there having to be a level playing field. How can a residency evaluate students if there isn't a common standard? We currently don't have a level playing field and DOs are encouraged to take USMLE for this reason, but somehow we expect one in the near future?), and one insanely subjective nonnegotiable I happen agree with in principle (no harm to the small community programs). Oh yeah, and there is the usual blame the government for not funding GME even though our profession has had huge growth in schooling full well knowing ~1/2 of DOs can get a spot in AOA residencies. This is understated considering we need much more than a 1:1 spots per applicant ratio. Then there's the blurb on IMGs taking 24% of ACGME spots, and how the Carib schools graduate more students than is the current shortfall in AOA DO residencies. Gotta love the subtle "they took our jobs" attitude... way to be progressive AOA!

:thumbup: Spot on.

And at the end of this debacle the AOA doesn't even have a clue what is going to happen with the original issue of getting into ACGME fellowships/pg2 spots from osteopathic residencies/internships. What a cluster.
 
All I got from this video was the AOA task force came to the table with stupid and unpopular non negotiables and were unwilling to make even the most basic compromises, leading to a back and forth for months with no progress, and finally, the presentation of a "deal or no deal" MOU (principle #2. COMLEX has to stay? Just add or negotiate in a bugs/drugs/OMM component to USMLE. If money is the issue, make us DOs pay heavily for this extra section. I'd gladly pay the extra $540 if it meant one or two extra sections and not a whole extra test. Principle #3. board certification has to remain completely independent? This makes nonnegotiable #4 impossible, there having to be a level playing field. How can a residency evaluate students if there isn't a common standard? We currently don't have a level playing field and DOs are encouraged to take USMLE for this reason, but somehow we expect one in the near future?), and one insanely subjective nonnegotiable I happen agree with in principle (no harm to the small community programs). Oh yeah, and there is the usual blame the government for not funding GME even though our profession has had huge growth in schooling full well knowing ~1/2 of DOs can get a spot in AOA residencies. This is understated considering we need much more than a 1:1 spots per applicant ratio. Then there's the blurb on IMGs taking 24% of ACGME spots, and how the Carib schools graduate more students than is the current shortfall in AOA DO residencies. Gotta love the subtle "they took our jobs" attitude... way to be progressive AOA!

Yep! I'll second that spot on!
 
Wow.

I'm on board that the AOA seems distant from what our generation of DOs do and want, and I support the merger as much as the rest of us, but let me call a spade a spade here... If you endlessly wanted to be an MD, go there. It's odd (to put it mildly) to join the DO world and then talk endlessly negatively about it, unjustly ("OMM is widely disproven"? Just because cranial is bizarre and the research I've read hasn't lead anywhere doesn't mean low back treatment also doesn't do anything. Search the NEJM). We don't say "pharmacotherapy is BS" because a few drugs are taken off the market each year, we say "some drugs are great, others are not." Some of OMM is great, some is not.

Check out In-training.org later this week. I'm posting a piece about the vocal self-hating DO students, and I'm hardly an OMM guru or separationist OMS.

:thumbup:

I should preface by saying I support the ACGME merger and am thoroughly disappointed it didn't go through. However, I don't think this is drinking the kool-aid at all. As DOs we should support our profession. You may have your own idea of what that means, though. Maybe for you that means merging the profession with the MD world entirely and that's the end of it. For me it means that we should know how our training is distinct from that of MDs and we should practice OMM, know what patients it's indicated for (and which it is not) and challenge ourselves to contribute to or at least cite (and not just critique) research which puts OMM up to modern standards.

For you this may be about your career, but some DOs actually believe in the need and value of an osteopathic profession. When a patient or colleague asks you what a DO is, will you say, "a physician," and that will be the end of it? Or will you say, "an osteopathic physician," and at least acknowledge your education to those who show an interest?
 
:thumbup:

I should preface by saying I support the ACGME merger and am thoroughly disappointed it didn't go through. However, I don't think this is drinking the kool-aid at all. As DOs we should support our profession. You may have your own idea of what that means, though. Maybe for you that means merging the profession with the MD world entirely and that's the end of it. For me it means that we should know how our training is distinct from that of MDs and we should practice OMM, know what patients it's indicated for (and which it is not) and challenge ourselves to contribute to or at least cite (and not just critique) research which puts OMM up to modern standards.

For you this may be about your career, but some DOs actually believe in the need and value of an osteopathic profession. When a patient or colleague asks you what a DO is, will you say, "a physician," and that will be the end of it? Or will you say, "an osteopathic physician," and at least acknowledge your education to those who show an interest?

I will tell them I'm a physician. I went to school to be a physician, not to be part of some club. There is no reason for me to try and force a distinction. If they ask me what the difference is, I will explain it, but I'm not going to go around saying "I'm an OSTEOPATHIC physician!" It's almost as stupid as everyone forcing the 'O'MS crap. We are different only because we are trying so hard to be. Nobody cares about our distinction. We are training to be part of a profession, not a brand. And that's the problem. The AOA treats DOs like a brand that needs defending, not a profession. Even if OMM had a very useful purpose, it isn't great enough to warrant an entirely different board exam system, residency system, and professional organization, especially when the overwhelming majority of graduates don't even use it. OMM is the excuse the AOA uses to defend their desire to maintain "distinctiveness" when what they really mean is they don't want to lose their positions of power, their club. The AOA has no bargaining chips as the ACGME has absolutely no incentive to merge. The ACGME stands to gain and lose nothing and will not be affected by a failure to merge.
 
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:thumbup:

I should preface by saying I support the ACGME merger and am thoroughly disappointed it didn't go through. However, I don't think this is drinking the kool-aid at all. As DOs we should support our profession. You may have your own idea of what that means, though. Maybe for you that means merging the profession with the MD world entirely and that's the end of it. For me it means that we should know how our training is distinct from that of MDs and we should practice OMM, know what patients it's indicated for (and which it is not) and challenge ourselves to contribute to or at least cite (and not just critique) research which puts OMM up to modern standards.

For you this may be about your career, but some DOs actually believe in the need and value of an osteopathic profession. When a patient or colleague asks you what a DO is, will you say, "a physician," and that will be the end of it? Or will you say, "an osteopathic physician," and at least acknowledge your education to those who show an interest?

The training is not " distinct". Forcing a distinction that does not exist is the problem. DO phiosophy? Nope not different than every profession out there talking about treating the whole person. OMT? Not enough to warrant a completely separate training pathway. So what is the real reason for wanting things separate? Money and power.
 
The distinctiveness isn't fading away because DO's aren't sticking to their core ideas, it's going away because in the last century, MD's have transitioned to some of DO's philosophy. The only thing keeping the two separate is the significance of the muscular-skeletal system and the effectiveness of manipulation. Considering how there's just not that much scientific evidence, if DOs truly want to remain "unique", they will need to pour money into new residencies and research opportunities. The rest of their "unique-ness" claims are just fluff that are more for increasing the profits of the AOA than the profession.
 
The distinctiveness isn't fading away because DO's aren't sticking to their core ideas, it's going away because in the last century, MD's have transitioned to some of DO's philosophy. The only thing keeping the two separate is the significance of the muscular-skeletal system and the effectiveness of manipulation. Considering how there's just not that much scientific evidence, if DOs truly want to remain "unique", they will need to pour money into new residencies and research opportunities. The rest of their "unique-ness" claims are just fluff that are more for increasing the profits of the AOA than the profession.

:thumbup:
 
The distinctiveness isn't fading away because DO's aren't sticking to their core ideas, it's going away because in the last century, MD's have transitioned to some of DO's philosophy. The only thing keeping the two separate is the significance of the muscular-skeletal system and the effectiveness of manipulation. Considering how there's just not that much scientific evidence, if DOs truly want to remain "unique", they will need to pour money into new residencies and research opportunities. The rest of their "unique-ness" claims are just fluff that are more for increasing the profits of the AOA than the profession.

You nailed it Zed! They need to put their money where their mouths are... all over the place!
 
Throughout the glut of threads regarding these topics I've seen a ton of misinformed posts. I'm going to give my perspective on our situation as DO students, as I currently understand some of the intricacies of the AOA.

1) I supported the merger in the early phases, and still do, but I was concerned with the ACGME providing a "take it or leave it offer" on something of this magnitude. NONE of us currently know the terms of the MOU so it find it hilarious that people can so easily bash the AOA without knowing the terms. The deans of all of the COM's unanimously voted yes initially, and then unanimously voted no after the MOU. That's enough evidence for me that there was something in there that we wouldn't want.

2)I think the AOA does far more for us students than they get credit for. I do think that they emphasize "osteopathic distinctiveness" far too much at times. I absolutely agree that student opinion is important, but some on here act like the AOA should do whatever the students want. We make up a small non-paying dues membership % of the AOA. Should they listen to us more? Personally, I think so, and I'd like to work toward that. I can say that after attending so many of their meetings and comparing them to AMA meetings the DO profession feels far more like a "family". AOA leaders are constantly asking student feedback. You may think that's ridiculous, but that's just what I've experienced.

3) We as a profession are growing too fast. End of story. We are out pacing the creation of residency slots, and I don't feel it's acceptable. That being said, that ARE actively working to increase residency slots. http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Education/Pages/new-aoa-approved-ogme-programs.aspx ~75 new programs last year with ~1,100 new slots. The question that remains is, are these programs properly equipped to be residency programs. This I can't answer, but I am concerned that they may not be.

4) We need more PUBLIC state funded schools, instead of PRIVATE for-profit schools. If we are going to grow, we should at least do it the right way. I think this statement is pretty self-explanatory.

Just as an aside, the AOA attempts to represent all DO's, not only DO's that have went through AOA programs. I met a MULTITUDE of DO's that trained in MD programs that were voting members of the House of Delegates. In order to become a voting member, you need to get involved with your Osteopathic State Society (which you could easily do despite having trained at an ACGME program) That being said, the majority of AOA members are DO's who went through AOA programs, but don't for a second think those are the only people attending these meetings.



Most importantly, if you read this posts and you actually care about these things then get involved. I understand that people brush this comment off as being pretentious, but I truly believe that if some of the more vocal and active posters on here actually went out and tried to get involved, that sooner or later there would be enough of us to make a difference. If you're involved as a SOMA President or NLO you will attend these conferences and have the opportunity to write resolutions that can change AOA policy, we just had one of our member's go through last week (http://www.do-online.org/TheDO/?p=148841). If you're SGA President/VP of your class you will automatically have a vote on your state society (I believe). If you want nothing to do with either of those, you can just contact your state society, and get involved. If want nothing to do with the DO profession then get involved on the AMA side, just do SOMETHING.


Tl;dr: Just read the damn post.

Also, if you want to turn this thread into talking about ways to actually get involved, I'd be more than happy to work with everyone!
 
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Wow. So much whining. Don't like the AOA? Ace the usmle step 1 and exact your revenge. Don't like primary care or OMT? Ace the mcat and go MD. I for one prefer the value system of the DO culture the AOA is trying to protect. It's more than just OMT, people. If it wasn't, Many OMS's wouldn't be in medical school at all. If you want to be judged by your stats and not your person, by all means explore other options. But I for one am thankful for the unique set of osteopathic values that distinguishes us from allopathy.

And OMT is awesome in the hands of a healer- maybe admissions should start screening for that trait as well.
 
We want their fellowships, they want our residencies.
 
Wow. So much whining. Don't like the AOA? Ace the usmle step 1 and exact your revenge. Don't like primary care or OMT? Ace the mcat and go MD. I for one prefer the value system of the DO culture the AOA is trying to protect. It's more than just OMT, people. If it wasn't, Many OMS's wouldn't be in medical school at all. If you want to be judged by your stats and not your person, by all means explore other options. But I for one am thankful for the unique set of osteopathic values that distinguishes us from allopathy.

And OMT is awesome in the hands of a healer- maybe admissions should start screening for that trait as well.



What unique set of osteopathic values? Our values aren't unique, we just repeatedly just claim it is so when it isn't in the name of "distinctiveness." MDs practice medicine in the exact same way as a DO. Any differences between physician care is a function of that person, not their degree.
 
:thumbup:

I should preface by saying I support the ACGME merger and am thoroughly disappointed it didn't go through. However, I don't think this is drinking the kool-aid at all. As DOs we should support our profession. You may have your own idea of what that means, though. Maybe for you that means merging the profession with the MD world entirely and that's the end of it. For me it means that we should know how our training is distinct from that of MDs and we should practice OMM, know what patients it's indicated for (and which it is not) and challenge ourselves to contribute to or at least cite (and not just critique) research which puts OMM up to modern standards.

For you this may be about your career, but some DOs actually believe in the need and value of an osteopathic profession. When a patient or colleague asks you what a DO is, will you say, "a physician," and that will be the end of it? Or will you say, "an osteopathic physician," and at least acknowledge your education to those who show an interest?

In fact, I'd rather leave my explanation of 'DO' at 'a physician'. I was in my resident clinic the other day and one of the attendings asked me about cranial - apparently someone in her family has 'cranial issues' and was referred to a local osteopathic hospital. Let me tell ya - when I started talking about the 'rhythmic pulsations' and shifting calvaria etc, the looks I got from all the attendings (this is an allo program) standing nearby made me wish I'd kept my mouth shut. The attending who asked was like 'but the cranial bones are fused...how are they able to be moved?' How does one answer that? I just shrugged and basically said 'lulz, that's what we wondered too'.

In other words, the 'DO distinctiveness' is great until you realize that most of it comes off like complete horse puckey when explained to the uninitiated. And frankly there are no differences in 'values' or in the 'biopsychosocial domain' or whatever. The 'holistic care' we like to talk about is simply good medicine, and good MDs practice it too. (On the flip side, there are certainly DOs who do not.)
 
Wow. So much whining. Don't like the AOA? Ace the usmle step 1 and exact your revenge. Don't like primary care or OMT? Ace the mcat and go MD. I for one prefer the value system of the DO culture the AOA is trying to protect. It's more than just OMT, people. If it wasn't, Many OMS's wouldn't be in medical school at all. If you want to be judged by your stats and not your person, by all means explore other options. But I for one am thankful for the unique set of osteopathic values that distinguishes us from allopathy.

And OMT is awesome in the hands of a healer- maybe admissions should start screening for that trait as well.

Sand the floor sucka!
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJNYLBIfq8M[/YOUTUBE]
 
They're going to cost us Internal Medicine entirely because -- honestly -- who wants to do IM without doing a fellowship?
 
So it's the AOA s fault
 
Well that makes Buser look like a total jackass.

As well it should. That asshat basically sat up on video and made it sound like ACGME offered a "take it or leave it" deal that compromised what they supposedly claimed was non-negotiable. Welllll come to find out it wasn't that at all. Did that asshat think the ACGME was going to sit back and let him mock them and make them look like a fool without responding with the REAL reason for the denial... cuz those ****bags don't wan't to lost their precious positions??

Now the serious question... what can we do about it. No really... what can we do. I don't think we quite have the ability to go all "Egypt" on em and run the AOA leadership out of office but what real option do we have? I'm guessing it will be what it has always been... shut up, apply ACGME, and get outta Dodge ASAP and never look back to the inbred ass AOA and their 19th century ways. Someone correct me if they have a better plan PLEASE cuz I'd be all for a little uproar about now consider we now know what the real reasons WEREN'T.
 
As well it should. That asshat basically sat up on video and made it sound like ACGME offered a "take it or leave it" deal that compromised what they supposedly claimed was non-negotiable. Welllll come to find out it wasn't that at all. Did that asshat think the ACGME was going to sit back and let him mock them and make them look like a fool without responding with the REAL reason for the denial... cuz those ****bags don't wan't to lost their precious positions??

Now the serious question... what can we do about it. No really... what can we do. I don't think we quite have the ability to go all "Egypt" on em and run the AOA leadership out of office but what real option do we have? I'm guessing it will be what it has always been... shut up, apply ACGME, and get outta Dodge ASAP and never look back to the inbred ass AOA and their 19th century ways. Someone correct me if they have a better plan PLEASE cuz I'd be all for a little uproar about now consider we now know what the real reasons WEREN'T.

The only real option from what I can see is to spread the ACGME's response to all DOs and to have them all petition the AOA as well as create an alternative organization and for them to launch a class suit against the AOA. But you know, it might also be a good idea to consult a JD.
 
As well it should. That asshat basically sat up on video and made it sound like ACGME offered a "take it or leave it" deal that compromised what they supposedly claimed was non-negotiable. Welllll come to find out it wasn't that at all. Did that asshat think the ACGME was going to sit back and let him mock them and make them look like a fool without responding with the REAL reason for the denial... cuz those ****bags don't wan't to lost their precious positions??

Now the serious question... what can we do about it. No really... what can we do. I don't think we quite have the ability to go all "Egypt" on em and run the AOA leadership out of office but what real option do we have? I'm guessing it will be what it has always been... shut up, apply ACGME, and get outta Dodge ASAP and never look back to the inbred ass AOA and their 19th century ways. Someone correct me if they have a better plan PLEASE cuz I'd be all for a little uproar about now consider we now know what the real reasons WEREN'T.

What can we do? You've outlined it pretty well. What about purchasing an MD and sticking that bad boy in front of your DO. You know... in honor of our beloved A.T. Still MD, DO. :smuggrin: How much does a blackmarket MD run these days? :rolleyes:
 
What can we do? You've outlined it pretty well. What about purchasing an MD and sticking that bad boy in front of your DO. You know... in honor of our beloved A.T. Still MD, DO. :smuggrin: How much does a blackmarket MD run these days? :rolleyes:
Tell me the price and I'll pay it, lol! Today I am absolutely ashamed to be associated with the AOA in any way... even if it's a "we have to be" type situation.

I'm on an audition rotation right now and I've noticed that a number of the residents (this is at an allopathic program) actually put "Dr. First Last" instead of "First Last DO" on their scrubs and totally leaving the DO off their name. Initially I liked the idea but now I'm seeing that being an absolute necessity.
 
Personally, i'd like the AOA/AACOM to explicitly explain why they turned it down. Anything less than that now makes me feel like this is on them and that we missed a huge opportunity.

I think we all know why they did it. In the merger situation they lose millions in AOA dues and students could choose to be boarded by more respected and non-AOA boards. They lost all power over their students who could effectively now be true MDs.
 
Now the serious question... what can we do about it. No really... what can we do. I don't think we quite have the ability to go all "Egypt" on em and run the AOA leadership out of office but what real option do we have? I'm guessing it will be what it has always been... shut up, apply ACGME, and get outta Dodge ASAP and never look back to the inbred ass AOA and their 19th century ways. Someone correct me if they have a better plan PLEASE cuz I'd be all for a little uproar about now consider we now know what the real reasons WEREN'T.

Sounds like we've been lied to. But since we can't get all Arab Spring on anyone, we can make this situation a bit more public. Contact your local and state representatives. Send letters, emails, tweets, FBing, whatever to local and national media. Tax payer dollars are at play here. If enough of us speak our minds, someone will take notice eventually. So, let's jump on it. Anyone of you that has beef with this scenario, take some time out in the next few days to draft up a letter and spread it like wildfire.
 
Sounds like we've been lied to. But since we can't get all Arab Spring on anyone, we can make this situation a bit more public. Contact your local and state representatives. Send letters, emails, tweets, FBing, whatever to local and national media. Tax payer dollars are at play here. If enough of us speak our minds, someone will take notice eventually. So, let's jump on it. Anyone of you that has beef with this scenario, take some time out in the next few days to draft up a letter and spread it like wildfire.

You're forgetting the possibility of a class action law suit if you decide to go for blood.
 
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