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Success and not-so-successful stories from those who went to Caribbean schools?

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lidaojie37

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I'm getting ready to apply to medical schools next month. I applied last cycle as well, but since I didn't get my applications in until the deadline, I didn't get many looks. In fact, I didn't get a single interview. MCAT: 503 GPA S: 2.986/C: 3.2

I've been shadowing a doctor for the last couple weeks. He attended St George's University and seems to be doing fine. I've also heard horror stories from others. I would like some pros and cons of going to Caribbean schools (particularly St George's and Ross) from those of you who have first-hand experience.

This doctor I have been shadowing found out I could still apply for school to start this August and got really excited for me to apply. He even told me I should apply today. Should I apply now, and then if I get accepted I can make the decision whether to register or not? Or even possibly defer until St George's January track to see if I get any offers elsewhere?

Mostly I just want first-hand accounts and advice of what it's really like going to school in the Caribbean.
 
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965978

Here are the main problems:

-Pre-Clinical structure is designed to weed out students

-Clinical Curriculum is sub-par

-You’re essentially limiting your residency options to primary care in remote areas

Bottom line is that going Carribbean isn’t a death sentence. But you will have to work a LOT harder for a LESS desirable residency.
 
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Hirro

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Just want to let you know that the medical landscape has changed a lot since your doc might have been in school. Be cautious of following in someone else's footsteps to the beachfront schools. Carib used to have much better outcomes than it does today.
 
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Goro

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I'm getting ready to apply to medical schools next month. I applied last cycle as well, but since I didn't get my applications in until the deadline, I didn't get many looks. In fact, I didn't get a single interview. MCAT: 503 GPA S: 2.986/C: 3.2

I've been shadowing a doctor for the last couple weeks. He attended St George's University and seems to be doing fine. I've also heard horror stories from others. I would like some pros and cons of going to Caribbean schools (particularly St George's and Ross) from those of you who have first-hand experience.

This doctor I have been shadowing found out I could still apply for school to start this August and got really excited for me to apply. He even told me I should apply today. Should I apply now, and then if I get accepted I can make the decision whether to register or not? Or even possibly defer until St George's January track to see if I get any offers elsewhere?

Mostly I just want first-hand accounts and advice of what it's really like going to school in the Caribbean.
Just go into the Carribean forum and look at all the posts entitled something like "Help! About to be dismissed/was dismissed!" and "Help! IMG, didn't match"

The Carib schools at salivating at the thought of a mark like you.
 
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puahate

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This has been discussed so much. Don't even consider it.
 
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ChymeofPassion

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With a 502 mcat and sub 3.0 SGPA, what makes you think you'll succeed with a medical school curriculum designed to weed out students?
 
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candbgirl

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You’ll get accepted right away. And then what? Carib schools whole business model is to accept anyone who can pay and then you languish while you wait to fail out. You might even get through a semester or two. Then you’ll run into trouble. You haven’t proven to anyone( not even yourself I suspect) that you can be successful in medical school. Once you fail out or decide to drop out or worse manage to graduate and don’t match you’ll be left with huge debt and no way to payoff your loans.
With a sGPA below 3.0 you shouldn’t be applying again. Take a few science courses and get your sGPA above 3.0. Continue to work on your ECs and in a year apply very broadly to new and low tier DO schools. But always remember not everyone who wants to be a doctor gets to be a doctor.

Now go search the forums for Caribbean horror stories. There are lots of them out there.
 
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drducky.

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Try to apply to DO schools before going offshores. You said you waited till the deadline to apply, thats like submitting your primary in january or something? APPLY AS SOON AS IT OPENS!
 
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907914

To anyone reading: deadlines with your application are not like deadlines in undergrad. They are not when you should submit. They are the latest you can submit. Hell, I would argue actually that you should take that philosophy with undergrad too. Don’t submit something that isn’t ready, but early is always better.
 
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dr derp

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Did you apply to DO? Funny enough, as I was going to the airport in Philadelphia in an Uber pool, the other passenger was a St Georges grad who's in a Family Medicine residency at NYU. I feel like I've heard of a few success stories like these but it depends on what you make of it. There seems to be so many people who end up failing out and ending up in a ton of debt with no physician's salary to pay it off. It'd definitely be a much bigger risk to go to Caribbean.
 
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lidaojie37

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Just want to let you know that the medical landscape has changed a lot since your doc might have been in school. Be cautious of following in someone else's footsteps to the beachfront schools. Carib used to have much better outcomes than it does today.
He finished his residency just last year. He has only been out for a couple years.
 
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lidaojie37

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Out of curiosity, did any of you who posted actually attend a carib school? Because knowing they are looked down on by any other doctor/medical student, I am only seeking out first hand experience.
 

Hirro

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He finished his residency just last year. He has only been out for a couple years.
That's good to hear that he's one of the lucky ones who make it. I also work with someone who graduated from Carib school last year. However, they did not match into a residency. Trust me, being in debt $300k and not having a doctor salary isn't a position you want to take on unless it's your absolute last option. Exhaust all other opportunities and avenues.

Full disclosure, I'm not someone who went Carib. I just know some of them firsthand.
 
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lidaojie37

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That's good to hear that he's one of the lucky ones who make it. I also work with someone who graduated from Carib school last year. However, they did not match into a residency. Trust me, being in debt $300k and not having a doctor salary isn't a position you want to take on unless it's your absolute last option. Exhaust all other opportunities and avenues.

Full disclosure, I'm not someone who went Carib. I just know some of them firsthand.
Thank you for your input. It really is greatly appreciated.
 
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deleted480308

Out of curiosity, did any of you who posted actually attend a carib school? Because knowing they are looked down on by any other doctor/medical student, I am only seeking out first hand experience.
I have looked up the statistics first hand and ~50% of those who start a carribean med school get a US residency

That should be an omen
 
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863168

@lidaojie37 The Caribbean subforum for students can be found here if you are looking for first hand accounts of what it is like to live on the island. This is likely one of the worst times to consider going to the Caribbean as the merger between MD/DO programs will make it harder for IMGs to find residency placements at the end of four years. Very rarely will Caribbean schools themselves give an accurate picture of how many students come in and go out, there has always been an asterisk of some sort next to any infographic showing their 99% Step 1 pass rate or their 100% residency placement rate for the class of 2XXX*.

With Ross having their old campus wiped off the map, who knows if you will be taking classes from month to month in Dominica, on a cruise ship, Barbados, Knoxville, Iselin, or Mirmar. Who knows how these schools will change their metrics to weed out their current classes from even making it to Step 1? A lot of students go in thinking they are going to be motivated and will not make the same mistakes, but don't realize that wanting to succeed is not the same as actually being able to pull through when it comes to crunch time. No one enters the Caribbean thinking they are going there to party and have a good time, yet so many students don't make it to the finish line.

(*) statistical data with asterisk caveats may be completely false.
 
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gonnif

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I have looked up the statistics first hand and ~50% of those who start a carribean med school get a US residency

That should be an omen

The issue isnt that bad, it is much, much worse.

1) with US schools, I know the graduation rate (82% in 4 years, 94% in 5 years, 97% graduate within 8 years). With Carib schools, there is not reported data. Last set I have from 2012 from the DeVry schools (Ross and AUC) which has some 50% graduating in 4 years and ultimately 20%-30% not graduating. Even these stats quoted by Bloomberg as reported to them by the schools I do not trust.

2) While the match rate is about 50%, this too is misleading as this only uses active applicants, not all initial or total applicants. This number would include those who withdrew residency application (eg didnt graduate, didnt pass STEP 2) and those who didnt rank (ie no program interviewed them. Taking these into account for US-IMGs only 2900 out of 6986 got a residency slot, or 41.5% for an actual match rate. There also are very few US-IMGs who then get a SOAP slot. For US Senior MDs it 17,740 of 19,312 or 91.2% match, with another 5% matching via SOAP. Another 3% (approx) get matched on subsequent cycle, though some of these maybe current residents looking for new programs or specialties. So lets say 98% ultimately get matched times 97% who graduated, mean that you have a 95% or greater chance of starting a US medical school, earning a degree, and getting a residency slot. For off shore schools, 41.5% get slots and conservatively 75% graduate, you get about a 30% chance of starting schools, earning a degree, and getting a residency slot. So you have conservatively a 3 times greater chance of starting medical school and earning a residency in a US MD then you do from Off-shore


259104

259105




3) Just for comparison, here is match data from the "Big 4" Carib school 2013, which is the last time they published data by country of school. This does not take into account any SOAP (which is minimal for off-shore) or pre-match placing (which is essentially nil with "all-in" policy)

259106
 
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Walter Raleigh

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The Caribbean is a massive crapshoot. You may well wish you never started down this path. Indeed, it may well be better to never be a doctor than to go Caribbean.
 
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holycityrunner

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I'm getting ready to apply to medical schools next month. I applied last cycle as well, but since I didn't get my applications in until the deadline, I didn't get many looks. In fact, I didn't get a single interview. MCAT: 503 GPA S: 2.986/C: 3.2

I've been shadowing a doctor for the last couple weeks. He attended St George's University and seems to be doing fine. I've also heard horror stories from others. I would like some pros and cons of going to Caribbean schools (particularly St George's and Ross) from those of you who have first-hand experience.

This doctor I have been shadowing found out I could still apply for school to start this August and got really excited for me to apply. He even told me I should apply today. Should I apply now, and then if I get accepted I can make the decision whether to register or not? Or even possibly defer until St George's January track to see if I get any offers elsewhere?

Mostly I just want first-hand accounts and advice of what it's really like going to school in the Caribbean.
I just graduated on Friday from a Carib school. Matched this year as well to a decent program - albeit, not my first choice. Willing to answer questions if you need me to. I'll be as honest and candid as I can.
 
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dangEras

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1500 start, 600-700 end up listed on the match list overwhelmingly in primary care.

Doesnt make sense as a good decision. Dentistry, PA, CRNA, podiatry, cardiac perfusion tech, etc are 100% safe decisions that are great careers.

Dentistry is honestly far better than primary care medicine anyways. Skip residency, work fewer hours, and match primary care incomes. The only point to US MD is if you absolutely LOVE surgery/hospitalist/psych work or know that you can match anesthesia/EM for sure.
 
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Walter Raleigh

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Well, @holycityrunner's numbers came up on the Caribbean Crapshoot, and they got what they wanted. Still doesn't make it less of a crapshoot.
 
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UnlimitedTraction

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The issue isnt that bad, it is much, much worse.

1) with US schools, I know the graduation rate (82% in 4 years, 94% in 5 years, 97% graduate within 8 years). With Carib schools, there is not reported data. Last set I have from 2012 from the DeVry schools (Ross and AUC) which has some 50% graduating in 4 years and ultimately 20%-30% not graduating. Even these stats quoted by Bloomberg as reported to them by the schools I do not trust.

2) While the match rate is about 50%, this too is misleading as this only uses active applicants, not all initial or total applicants. This number would include those who withdrew residency application (eg didnt graduate, didnt pass STEP 2) and those who didnt rank (ie no program interviewed them. Taking these into account for US-IMGs only 2900 out of 6986 got a residency slot, or 41.5% for an actual match rate. There also are very few US-IMGs who then get a SOAP slot. For US Senior MDs it 17,740 of 19,312 or 91.2% match, with another 5% matching via SOAP. Another 3% (approx) get matched on subsequent cycle, though some of these maybe current residents looking for new programs or specialties. So lets say 98% ultimately get matched times 97% who graduated, mean that you have a 95% or greater chance of starting a US medical school, earning a degree, and getting a residency slot. For off shore schools, 41.5% get slots and conservatively 75% graduate, you get about a 30% chance of starting schools, earning a degree, and getting a residency slot. So you have conservatively a 3 times greater chance of starting medical school and earning a residency in a US MD then you do from Off-shore


View attachment 259104
View attachment 259105



3) Just for comparison, here is match data from the "Big 4" Carib school 2013, which is the last time they published data by country of school. This does not take into account any SOAP (which is minimal for off-shore) or pre-match placing (which is essentially nil with "all-in" policy)

View attachment 259106

To be fair, for your second point, if you're one of the 41% matching into residency, you've probably graduated or will be graduating. You can't multiply .41 * .75 since the .75 is already factored into the .41.
 

gonnif

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To be fair, for your second point, if you're one of the 41% matching into residency, you've probably graduated or will be graduating. You can't multiply .41 * .75 since the .75 is already factored into the .41.

No it isnt.
You begin with 100% who started classes as M1
you have 75% who actually earn a degree and graduate as M4
you have 41% of that 75% who actually get a residency slot PGY1

therefore of the 100 people who start off shore medical school
75 of those people earn a degree and graduate
41% of the 75 get a residency slot
or about 31 of those who begin medical school, earn their degree and get any residency slot

So of the 100 people who start off-shore medical school, 31 ultimately get a residency slot
 
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Goro

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No it isnt.
You begin with 100% who started classes as M1
you have 75% who actually earn a degree and graduate as M4
you have 41% of that 75% who actually get a residency slot PGY1

therefore of the 100 people who start off shore medical school
75 of those people earn a degree and graduate
41% of the 75 get a residency slot
or about 31 of those who begin medical school, earn their degree and get any residency slot

So of the 100 people who start off-shore medical school, 31 ultimately get a residency slot
And even in this scenario, the position might very well be a one year preliminary, and then back into the match you go.
 
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907914

No it isnt.
You begin with 100% who started classes as M1
you have 75% who actually earn a degree and graduate as M4
you have 41% of that 75% who actually get a residency slot PGY1

therefore of the 100 people who start off shore medical school
75 of those people earn a degree and graduate
41% of the 75 get a residency slot
or about 31 of those who begin medical school, earn their degree and get any residency slot

So of the 100 people who start off-shore medical school, 31 ultimately get a residency slot
I just graduated on Friday from a Carib school. Matched this year as well to a decent program - albeit, not my first choice. Willing to answer questions if you need me to. I'll be as honest and candid as I can.
What is it that drives students to apply Carib med? Are they just uninformed of their business practices? Is it a last-ditch desperate effort? Parental peer pressure?

I barely want to apply DO because I can't buy in to paying to learn OMM stuff (would still do it if needed, as the terminal degree is effectively the same in practice), so I cannot even fathom the reasoning for applying Carib Med.....
 

gonnif

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And even in this scenario, the position might very well be a one year preliminary, and then back into the match you go.
Just clarify: while the off shore schools do produces thousands tdof successful doctors each, thousands more who start medical school there never graduateo or never get residency slots.. many who do get a slot may be need to rematch or practice something they really didnt want. OmAs advisors, with a conservative effective success rate of at max 30%, likely 15-20% of “real” success (ie getting into a residency speciality you actually want), we cannot recommend these schools. Certainly not until you have exhausted all other options. This would include doing at least two full US MD/DO Cycles with at least a year break in between for application repair, post bacc, SMP, MCAT retake, etc
 
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gonnif

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What is it that drives students to apply Carib med? Are they just uninformed of their business practices? Is it a last-ditch desperate effort? Parental peer pressure?

I barely want to apply DO because I can't buy in to paying to learn OMM stuff (would still do it if needed, as the terminal degree is effectively the same in practice), so I cannot even fathom the reasoning for applying Carib Med.....
Part of the reason is the schools have incredibly effective marketing campaigns. Just a few years ago Saint George’s was valued at $1 billion for sale. And is working its way into the US market with the purchase of Rocky Vista DO school. The marketing isn’t directed just at students but also at advisers. Remember many advisers come from other backgrounds than science or even counseling. Typically they primarily know what courses at their school are for what particular medical or health care preparation you need. The offshore schools also rely on a now rather old history where it was a reasonable plan To get into medicine in the US. However, with the growth of US medical schools,That now have added 30% more seats since 2009 and the incredible growth of the DO schools combined with the incredibly slow growth of residency Slots, Is squeezing the office Grads.

With so many options for Students to improve their applications with post baccalaureate, SMP, DIY, and MCAT retake along with many other possibilities, no student should consider the Caribbean or other offshore schools until here she has completed at least two full cycles for both MD and DO with at least one gap year in between for repair. Even then consider PA, NP, CRNA, and podiatry (the most overlooked school, along with off shore
 
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Goro

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What is it that drives students to apply Carib med? Are they just uninformed of their business practices? Is it a last-ditch desperate effort? Parental peer pressure?


  • bad judgment
  • bad advice
  • egotism
  • gullibility
  • overbearing parents
  • inability to delay gratification
  • IA's
  • legal problems
  • weak research skills
  • high risk behavior.
  • lusting after the MD degree when a DO degree is doable
 
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Isoval

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  • bad judgment
  • bad advice
  • egotism
  • gullibility
  • overbearing parents
  • inability to delay gratification
  • IA's
  • legal problems
  • weak research skills
  • high risk behavior.
  • lusting after the MD degree when a DO degree is doable

Lusting. Very apt. I love it.
 
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GypsyHummus

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mix of things. The “I’ve told everyone I’ve ever met that I was gonna be a doctor and my family told everyone too but I got a 490 MCAT score” common or “those attrition rates won’t affect me, I’m special” is classic.

The minority are people with horrendous GPAs that cannot be fixed but did well on the MCAT. I could see an argument for that student to take the risk if they wanted primary care. It’s not like nobody becomes a doctor from the Caribbean, otherwise people wouldn’t do that route.

Funny thing is these people eyeing the Caribbean don’t look at doctor alternatives that are in reach with much less risk: optometry, and podiatry come to mind. The 3.3 494 MCAT applicant would most likely make it in a DPM program, but will likely fail out of a Caribbean school. It’s too bad Podiatry schools are so overlooked in the premed world. It offers a path to become a doctor to low stat applicants who otherwise wouldn’t have a chance, and it’s so much safer than Caribbean.

What is it that drives students to apply Carib med? Are they just uninformed of their business practices? Is it a last-ditch desperate effort? Parental peer pressure?

I barely want to apply DO because I can't buy in to paying to learn OMM stuff (would still do it if needed, as the terminal degree is effectively the same in practice), so I cannot even fathom the reasoning for applying Carib Med.....
 
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SAC 1008

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I am living the Caribbean med school nightmare right now! The only reason I am still in it at this point is because I only have one semester left. It is a nightmare because many of these schools only care about the numbers and the money. Before when the doctor you are shadowing went to a Caribbean school the curriculum was compatible with the US system but now they are so far behind and are losing the opportunity to get rotations/residency it is crazy. My current school the average USMLE step 1 score is essentially the worst students in US medical school step Score approx 215. That number has been manipulated because they lose track of others that haven't taken it or took it once and didn't pass. I am saying DO NOT DO A CARIBBEAN MEDICAL SCHOOL!!!!! At least do Not the following on your list: University of Medicine and Health Science, MUA, Windsor and St. Mathews. FYI
 
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907914

I am living the Caribbean med school nightmare right now! The only reason I am still in it at this point is because I only have one semester left. It is a nightmare because many of these schools only care about the numbers and the money. Before when the doctor you are shadowing went to a Caribbean school the curriculum was compatible with the US system but now they are so far behind and are losing the opportunity to get rotations/residency it is crazy. My current school the average USMLE step 1 score is essentially the worst students in US medical school step Score approx 215. That number has been manipulated because they lose track of others that haven't taken it or took it once and didn't pass. I am saying DO NOT DO A CARIBBEAN MEDICAL SCHOOL!!!!! At least do Not the following on your list: University of Medicine and Health Science, MUA, Windsor and St. Mathews. FYI
Good luck on the match and thank you for the Carib med feedback!
 
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Peter Pan.

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A friend of mine from volunteering has a brother who went Caribbean after not getting in MD or DO. 4 years after med school he still hasn’t matched into a residency. Ton of debt and no light at the end of the tunnel. Scary place to be.
 
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Peter Pan.

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What is it that drives students to apply Carib med? Are they just uninformed of their business practices? Is it a last-ditch desperate effort? Parental peer pressure?

I barely want to apply DO because I can't buy in to paying to learn OMM stuff (would still do it if needed, as the terminal degree is effectively the same in practice), so I cannot even fathom the reasoning for applying Carib Med.....

Desperation for some. For others they start talking to a carribean doctor (an anomaly) or drink the koolaid when they talk to carribean schools.
 
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Isoval

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Desperation for some. For others they start talking to a carribean doctor (an anomaly) or drink the koolaid when they talk to carribean schools.

This is extremely common, especially on this forum.

- There will be a thread like this.
- We all say that Caribbean should be an absolute last resort or no resort at all.
- Inevitably, someone comes by and tells us about how their doctor said the Caribbean was amazing, they loved it, and they snagged a pediatric cardiothoracic surgery fellowship right out of medical school.

It happens almost without fail.
 
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907914

This is extremely common, especially on this forum.

- There will be a thread like this.
- We all say that Caribbean should be an absolute last resort or no resort at all.
- Inevitably, someone comes by and tells us about how their doctor said the Caribbean was amazing, they loved it, and they snagged a pediatric cardiothoracic surgery fellowship right out of medical school.

It happens almost without fail.
I have a 520 MCAT kid in my class applying this year. Everything else on his app is stellar.He is only applying state schools and Carib MED because he knows they “have extremely high acceptance rate.” Doesn’t believe the hype on SDN or when I directly told him.

If it can happen to a kid that smart, it can happen to anyone (unfortunately)
 

Planes2Doc

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It's easy to say that you will work your ass off, and that everything will be okay. But usually it doesn't happen this way. At our institution, one of the emergency medicine residents is from a Caribbean program. In our internal medicine program, the sharpest intern is actually from a non-Big Four Caribbean school, and has actually performed better than some of his US allopathic graduates.

On the flipside, I have a few friends on Facebook that went to Caribbean schools. One of them quit his first year and is now a realtor in Florida. A couple others stopped posting on Facebook for the most part, though they will occasionally "like" or comment on some of my posts. I did not want to ask what they are up to now. There is also another guy I personally know who went to a non-Big Four Caribbean school. He told me he was shooting for rural family medicine. He wasn't able to match. He is on faculty at an esthetician school and students refer to him as "doctor." I also have a family friend who went to SGU in the 1990s. Somewhere along the way he couldn't pass USMLE Step 2 if I'm not mistaken, and has since rarely shown up to family occasions. He has also been ambiguous about what he is doing. When we see his parents, they say he is "studying" when asking about him.

These are just some people I know personally. But if you go on a site like ValueMD, you'll see students failing out of some random Caribbean school and then trying to transfer to another. Then there are other horror stories.
 
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GypsyHummus

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A vast majority of the ones I know are premeds that have decent GPAs but bad MCAT scores (taken many times).

Put yourself in their shoes.

What else is a student suppose to do? They grew up wanting to be doctors, They work for 4-6 years taking all the pre recs, maybe retaking organic or physics, graduated with a worthless biology degree and a 3.2-3.4 GPA, did the MCAT, and ended up with a 492, retook to get a 495. MD is out of the question, and no DO school will take them unless they have military or URM status.

Do you think they are gonna stop now, or humble themselves enough to look into Podiatry? So an email from the Caribbean comes through because the student clicked the box on MCAT day allowing multiple masters and Caribbean programs to spam their email about backup options. The student gets interested, asks the doctor they have been shadowing about it. “Yeah, Dr. So and So graduated from the Caribbean” (30 years ago).

So the student looks online does some research. They see the scary numbers, 60% end up matching but hey, everyone has told this student they were smart, they'll be fine. Then the student comes on SDN, reads success stories "Im carribean MD and matched, if anyone can do it, so can YOU!!". Parents are starting to ask questions, they've already told everyone that you were going to be a doctor, cant disappoint now. Student applys and gets in. Puts on Facebook that they were "accepted into medical school" and the likes come pouring in. Nobody loved them enough to tell them what a bad decision it is.

What is it that drives students to apply Carib med? Are they just uninformed of their business practices? Is it a last-ditch desperate effort? Parental peer pressure?

I barely want to apply DO because I can't buy in to paying to learn OMM stuff (would still do it if needed, as the terminal degree is effectively the same in practice), so I cannot even fathom the reasoning for applying Carib Med.....
 
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They work for 4-6 years taking all the pre recs, maybe retaking organic or physics, graduated with a worthless biology degree and a 3.2-3.4 GPA, did the MCAT, and ended up with a 492, retook to get a 495.
It is difficult putting yourself in someone else's shoes when the viewpoint/perspective is so far from your own.

Is it just cognitive dissonance that allows students to get through all of this and still think they are good enough?
 
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Moko

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I always tell folks to judge a school / program not based on what happens to their best students / residents, but rather their worst. Everyone goes in hoping they'll be at the top, but statistically that's impossible
 
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I always tell folks to judge a school / program not based on what happens to their best students / residents, but rather their worst. Everyone goes in hoping they'll be at the top, but statistically that's impossible
90% of American drivers believe they are above average at driving.
 
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GypsyHummus

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Part is society. We have grown up in a culture where everyone gets a trophy and the "follow your heart and the money will follow" thing. Younger generations are supposed to think work is fun and you should be in love with your job, which is why so many people are "muh passion" with medicine.

This medical school rejection is prolly the first time they have been rejected from anything either. Colleges basically hand out acceptances, and this 23 year old student doesnt know how much 50K of debt actually is, or what a net taxpayer is.

In reality, medicine is a career with good and bad. Its a good career from the outside, and I see a lot of old and new doctors driving 60K+ new cars, but its been glamorized to the point where people are willing to dump 250K on a Caribbean education and hope it works out. I bet the bottom 40% at the Caribbean thought they were gonna make it as well.

Much better idea to do an SMP to see if you can handle medical school. Even though most wont make it in the SMP, and a poor performance will bar you from medicine, if you get the loss its only 30K down the drain instead of 300K.

Alternatively, if you really want to be a doctor in America but cant get into medical school, try your hand at Podiatry or Optometry and if you hit the DAT out of the park, Dentistry. THese schools have been known to take students with 3.0-3.2 GPAs, much lower MCATs, and the DAT/OAT is much easier than the MCAT. "But I hate teeth, feet, and eyes!" the low stat premed says. Too bad, you lost your options to practice the fun and exciting medicine when you failed to crack a 500 MCAT.

Or better yet, if you know you cant hack it, do something else. Let the pride and "muh passions" go. Be an accountant or other boring thing that pays 60K/year, invest in aggressive stocks, save money, retire at 50.

It is difficult putting yourself in someone else's shoes when the viewpoint/perspective is so far from your own.

Is it just cognitive dissonance that allows students to get through all of this and still think they are good enough?
 
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theKingLT

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It is difficult putting yourself in someone else's shoes when the viewpoint/perspective is so far from your own.

Is it just cognitive dissonance that allows students to get through all of this and still think they are good enough?
More like they've been told all their lives that they can do anything they want if they work for it. That is the American way after all. I know two people attending Caribbean schools. I tried to convince both of them not to go, but even after showing them the data and the horror stories they just say they know it will be hard, but they will work for it. No, it doesn't make sense, because they never worked for it before and odds are they're not going to do any better on some island, but that's not the common conception of hard work. Most don't think of work ethic as something you learn, but rather something you just do. As if it appears out of thin air with a little pressure. If that's what you believe it's easy to choose Caribbean even when you know it's a crappy option because you think the crap will just motivate you to work harder.

The other types just don't know any better because they bought all the crap the Carib recruiters were spewing. Then it's just plain ignorance
 
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Planes2Doc

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So the student looks online does some research. They see the scary numbers, 60% end up matching but hey, everyone has told this student they were smart, they'll be fine. Then the student comes on SDN, reads success stories "Im carribean MD and matched, if anyone can do it, so can YOU!!". Parents are starting to ask questions, they've already told everyone that you were going to be a doctor, cant disappoint now. Student applys and gets in. Puts on Facebook that they were "accepted into medical school" and the likes come pouring in. Nobody loved them enough to tell them what a bad decision it is.

I don't think anyone could have said this any better!
 
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907914

More like they've been told all their lives that they can do anything they want if they work for it. That is the American way after all. I know two people attending Caribbean schools. I tried to convince both of them not to go, but even after showing them the data and the horror stories they just say they know it will be hard, but they will work for it. No, it doesn't make sense, because they never worked for it before and odds are they're not going to do any better on some island, but that's not the common conception of hard work. Most don't think of work ethic as something you learn, but rather something you just do. As if it appears out of thin air with a little pressure. If that's what you believe it's easy to choose Caribbean even when you know it's a crappy option because you think the crap will just motivate you to work harder.

The other types just don't know any better because they bought all the crap the Carib recruiters were spewing. Then it's just plain ignorance
Part is society. We have grown up in a culture where everyone gets a trophy and the "follow your heart and the money will follow" thing. Younger generations are supposed to think work is fun and you should be in love with your job, which is why so many people are "muh passion" with medicine.

This medical school rejection is prolly the first time they have been rejected from anything either. Colleges basically hand out acceptances, and this 23 year old student doesnt know how much 50K of debt actually is, or what a net taxpayer is.

In reality, medicine is a career with good and bad. Its a good career from the outside, and I see a lot of old and new doctors driving 60K+ new cars, but its been glamorized to the point where people are willing to dump 250K on a Caribbean education and hope it works out. I bet the bottom 40% at the Caribbean thought they were gonna make it as well.

Much better idea to do an SMP to see if you can handle medical school. Even though most wont make it in the SMP, and a poor performance will bar you from medicine, if you get the loss its only 30K down the drain instead of 300K.

Alternatively, if you really want to be a doctor in America but cant get into medical school, try your hand at Podiatry or Optometry and if you hit the DAT out of the park, Dentistry. THese schools have been known to take students with 3.0-3.2 GPAs, much lower MCATs, and the DAT/OAT is much easier than the MCAT. "But I hate teeth, feet, and eyes!" the low stat premed says. Too bad, you lost your options to practice the fun and exciting medicine when you failed to crack a 500 MCAT.

Or better yet, if you know you cant hack it, do something else. Let the pride and "muh passions" go. Be an accountant or other boring thing that pays 60K/year, invest in aggressive stocks, save money, retire at 50.
Speak of the devil, got my first today!

266039
 
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