IH8ColdWeath3r

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Hey guys,
you might be shocked when you hear this, as I had never though of organic this way but it makes sense. I was lucky enough to speak with a member of the board of Admissions at UTSW and he explained to me why your grade organic chemistry has a significant impact on schools decision of whether you will be successful in med school and as a practicing physician, and it makes sense bc:

" you're never going to be asked to synthesize 2,3-dimethylcyclohexane in medical school, but what organic teaches you is how to problem solve!Sometimes, the problems are solved forwards; sometimes they are solved backwards. After doing these problems you develop a problem solving strategy that will prove handy in medicine and heres why:

In organic, you are given a series of rules that you have to learn, or I should say master. Once you've learned these basic rules (the reactions), you use them as a guide to arrive at the final problem. However, the problem is not always arrived at simply. Sometimes,you have to go back and re-trace your steps and figure out where you went wrong. Use the rules, and clues, to devise another method of arriving at the solution (the product)

Essentially, this is the same thought process that goes into medicine.
Alot of times you use your knowledge and basic rules (about signs, symptoms, vitals, a type of infection) to arrive at a solution ( a diagnosis and treatment option). A lot of times, this might not work and so you have to go back, re-trace your steps, and see where you might have made a mistake. revaluate the patient, and devise a new way of arriving at the product (helping the patient recover w an alternative treatment plan)

Makes sense, doesn't it?
 

oaklandguy

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Hey guys,
you might be shocked when you hear this, as I had never though of organic this way but it makes sense. I was lucky enough to speak with a member of the board of Admissions at UTSW and he explained to me why your grade organic chemistry has a significant impact on schools decision of whether you will be successful in med school and as a practicing physician, and it makes sense bc:

" you're never going to be asked to synthesize 2,3-dimethylcyclohexane in medical school, but what organic teaches you is how to problem solve!Sometimes, the problems are solved forwards; sometimes they are solved backwards. After doing these problems you develop a problem solving strategy that will prove handy in medicine and heres why:

In organic, you are given a series of rules that you have to learn, or I should say master. Once you've learned these basic rules (the reactions), you use them as a guide to arrive at the final problem. However, the problem is not always arrived at simply. Sometimes,you have to go back and re-trace your steps and figure out where you went wrong. Use the rules, and clues, to devise another method of arriving at the solution (the product)

Essentially, this is the same thought process that goes into medicine.
Alot of times you use your knowledge and basic rules (about signs, symptoms, vitals, a type of infection) to arrive at a solution ( a diagnosis and treatment option). A lot of times, this might not work and so you have to go back, re-trace your steps, and see where you might have made a mistake. revaluate the patient, and devise a new way of arriving at the product (helping the patient recover w an alternative treatment plan)

Makes sense, doesn't it?
It doesn't make sense at all. If they want us to be great at solving problems one would assume that Math would be more of a priority due it's problem solving nature, yet most med-schools don't require extremely high levels of math. I would think some videogames have a strong amount of problem solving as well, maybe they could throw a videogame section on the MCAT?
 

tremulousNeedle

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I would say that your thinking is a little more concrete than necessary, but you are correct. The general sciences and MCAT have two main purposes. First, to a lesser extent, they are used to build and test your knowledge of the basic sciences (a reasonable foundation for the study of medicine). Second, to a much larger extent, they are used to develop and evaluate critical thinking skills and quantitative / qualitative analysis and processing of data (amongst other large words that basically describe problem solving).

To the other responder who thinks math would be a better medium if this theory were true:
Critical thinking and problem solving in math is too discrete and precise to be related to modern medicine by itself; the complexity and unknowns of biology and chemistry (the real world) also need to be included into these thought processes (this is coming from an experienced student who has completed med school, several upper level undergrad science courses, and 5 semesters of calculus – don’t ask).

I know; that’s a whole lot of theory. Sorry.

-admissions committee interview / senior medical student (waiting for graduation)
 

circulus vitios

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That's a bunch of stupid bull****. The same logic could be applied to calculus or calculus based physics, and we all know how much pre-meds (and doctors) hate math and physics.
 

tremulousNeedle

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That's a bunch of stupid bull****. The same logic could be applied to calculus or calculus based physics, and we all know how much pre-meds (and doctors) hate math and physics.
Wow! Your insight is amazing. I hope that's working out for you.
 
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I'm sure getting a good grade in Organic helps, my professor for physics said the most important LOR's we will ever need is from our Professor in physics and organic chemistry, he said if you can do well on both those subjects you develop good critical thinking skills.
 

Suenya

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I've heard this from a medical school adcom too. And while there is some memorization in orgo, like my entire class was mostly like a class in puzzle solving... trying to use the tools given (mats and syntheses memorized) to get a final product, or to come up with a line from starting mats to product.

I'm still not convinced it's the best score to use (I personally think things like symbolic logic would be a better illustration), but I get why it might be important for a class you don't really need to know the information in.

I've also heard that other schools orgo classes are way higher on pure memorization. That might be helpful in medical school as well, but it wouldn't predict the same sort of thing it was sold to me as by the adcom.
 

Geekchick921

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It doesn't make sense at all. If they want us to be great at solving problems one would assume that Math would be more of a priority due it's problem solving nature, yet most med-schools don't require extremely high levels of math. I would think some videogames have a strong amount of problem solving as well, maybe they could throw a videogame section on the MCAT?
Best. Idea. EVER.

OMG... I would OWN!
 

surftheiop

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Didn't read post, but here is the summary.

People who suck at organic say it has nothing to do with medicine

People who are awesome at organic say it is paramount importance to being succesfull as a physician.

The rest of us fall somewhere in between
 
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Didn't read post, but here is the summary.

People who suck at organic say it has nothing to do with medicine

People who are awesome at organic say it is paramount importance to being succesfull as a physician.

The rest of us fall somewhere in between
/gasp, we can never lose!!!
 
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Hey guys,
you might be shocked when you hear this, as I had never though of organic this way but it makes sense. I was lucky enough to speak with a member of the board of Admissions at UTSW and he explained to me why your grade organic chemistry has a significant impact on schools decision of whether you will be successful in med school and as a practicing physician, and it makes sense bc:

" you're never going to be asked to synthesize 2,3-dimethylcyclohexane in medical school, but what organic teaches you is how to problem solve!Sometimes, the problems are solved forwards; sometimes they are solved backwards. After doing these problems you develop a problem solving strategy that will prove handy in medicine and heres why:

In organic, you are given a series of rules that you have to learn, or I should say master. Once you've learned these basic rules (the reactions), you use them as a guide to arrive at the final problem. However, the problem is not always arrived at simply. Sometimes,you have to go back and re-trace your steps and figure out where you went wrong. Use the rules, and clues, to devise another method of arriving at the solution (the product)

Essentially, this is the same thought process that goes into medicine.
Alot of times you use your knowledge and basic rules (about signs, symptoms, vitals, a type of infection) to arrive at a solution ( a diagnosis and treatment option). A lot of times, this might not work and so you have to go back, re-trace your steps, and see where you might have made a mistake. revaluate the patient, and devise a new way of arriving at the product (helping the patient recover w an alternative treatment plan)

Makes sense, doesn't it?
I asked a physician this because I was curious too and he said that it's very useful if you go to a school that's heavy on research (like U of Minn. for example).
 

plsfoldthx

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The method of problem solving is a bit different than the other sciences. Like one poster mentioned, it's a bit like putting the pieces of a puzzle together.
 

austinap

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The problem solving, and that it's actually relevant. People like to look back at orgo and say that it doesn't apply at all, and for many practicing physicians that might be the case. However, in addition to being a good indication of problem solving ability, organic chemistry is actually relevant to medicine. Pharmacology is the most direct example: bioavailability, clearance rates, etc, are all intimately related to the physical properties of organic molecules. For a concrete example, it's hard to understand pH vs. efficacy for local anesthetics if you don't understand some of the basic organic chemistry behind that.
 

goldandapager

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Physicians on organic chemistry: "I don't remember any of that that ****, it sucked"
 

IH8ColdWeath3r

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I'm still not convinced it's the best score to use (I personally think things like symbolic logic would be a better illustration), but I get why it might be important for a class you don't really need to know the information in.

I've also heard that other schools orgo classes are way higher on pure memorization. That might be helpful in medical school as well, but it wouldn't predict the same sort of thing it was sold to me as by the adcom.
^actually, organic really requires no memorization. By learning the fundamentals in bonding, geometry, resonance, conformations, steriochemistry, etc. etc, the rest of the course just sort of becomes intuitive. You don't MEMORIZE ORGANIC. I find that many ppl try to do this and fail, or end up w/ C's (mainly bio majors bc they are so used to it)

For instance, you might know nothing about a reaction pertaining to carbonyl compounds, but if you see a carbonyl, you could intuitively guess that the dipole makes the carbon electrophilic, allowing for nucleophilic attack at the electrophilic site. You DIDNT MEMORIZE THIS, you arrived at the solution through the basic understand and principles of the subject, plus a little intuition.
 

Ischemic

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Anyone have the double facepalm with pickard and his 2nd in command? Very pertinent for this thread.
 

metallica81788

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You can learn to solve problems in almost any class.

You can learn to solve problems at a crappy job.

You can learn to solve problems at your house.
 

LRAccord624

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You can learn to solve problems in almost any class.

You can learn to solve problems at a crappy job.

You can learn to solve problems at your house.
:laugh:
:thumbup:
 

Geekchick921

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Physicians on organic chemistry: "I don't remember any of that that ****, it sucked"
I have had at least one physician I've worked with say pretty much the same thing to me. True story.
 

mynamehere

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in the same sense, you can say that about your whole undergrad career. everything you learn and take teaches and builds who you are and how you will interpret the world.

i guess this post is more for putting a better light on ochem.. but all the same. i hate it.
 

surftheiop

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The thing I find amusing about organic is what other chemists think about it.

I took quantum mech and physical chem before organic and it seemed like twice a week our professors would be like "now you know those hand waving organic chemists will try to tell you....." and I think one of them started the semester by saying "I'm sorry for those of you who will have to take organic after this, but after taking this class you'll see that organic chemists just make crap up to justify themselves"

Then the organic profs must defend themselves so I then hear stuff like "Well those physical chemists just sit there solving the Schrodinger, never seen one actually do something useful"
 

Suenya

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Physicians on organic chemistry: "I don't remember any of that that ****, it sucked"
Every resident and attending I've talked to has said that as well (well, some didn't say it sucked, but all said they don't remember any of it).

^actually, organic really requires no memorization. By learning the fundamentals in bonding, geometry, resonance, conformations, steriochemistry, etc. etc, the rest of the course just sort of becomes intuitive. You don't MEMORIZE ORGANIC. I find that many ppl try to do this and fail, or end up w/ C's (mainly bio majors bc they are so used to it)
This is certainly how I felt, which is why I liked Organic more than my other classes. I don't know how, and it may just be that people misunderstand how to study, but I've heard so many people at other undergrads tell me that organic is all memorization.

On the other hand, all the intuitive rules you learn in organic just led me to believe, with my very limited understanding, that enzymes, when it comes to organic chemistry, approximately, and only approximately, are magic.
 

StayingFocused

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Hey guys,
you might be shocked when you hear this, as I had never though of organic this way but it makes sense. I was lucky enough to speak with a member of the board of Admissions at UTSW and he explained to me why your grade organic chemistry has a significant impact on schools decision of whether you will be successful in med school and as a practicing physician, and it makes sense bc:

" you're never going to be asked to synthesize 2,3-dimethylcyclohexane in medical school, but what organic teaches you is how to problem solve!Sometimes, the problems are solved forwards; sometimes they are solved backwards. After doing these problems you develop a problem solving strategy that will prove handy in medicine and heres why:

In organic, you are given a series of rules that you have to learn, or I should say master. Once you've learned these basic rules (the reactions), you use them as a guide to arrive at the final problem. However, the problem is not always arrived at simply. Sometimes,you have to go back and re-trace your steps and figure out where you went wrong. Use the rules, and clues, to devise another method of arriving at the solution (the product)

Essentially, this is the same thought process that goes into medicine.
Alot of times you use your knowledge and basic rules (about signs, symptoms, vitals, a type of infection) to arrive at a solution ( a diagnosis and treatment option). A lot of times, this might not work and so you have to go back, re-trace your steps, and see where you might have made a mistake. revaluate the patient, and devise a new way of arriving at the product (helping the patient recover w an alternative treatment plan)

Makes sense, doesn't it?

You know the people who love Ochem and have done well in it are cheering you on and the ones who hate and/or are not good at it think you're full of bs.
 

MilkmanAl

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I'm all about booting organic from the pre-med curriculum. Sure, critical thinking, analysis, blah, blah, blah. Why not require another science class that has more application to med school? Even for pharm and biochem, all the organic chemistry you need is taught in the first couple weeks of the course, as I've said numerous times before. Most of the chemical concepts you need to understand molecular function, such as polarity, pH, reaction rates, etc., are from earlier chemistry courses. There are plenty of other chemistry courses that would suit pre-meds better than organic does. Biochem and PChem come to mind. Perhaps an introductory pharmacology course would be a decent plan, too. Those first few subjects of organic do need to be covered somewhere, though, and that would present a bit of a problem.
 

austinap

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I'm all about booting organic from the pre-med curriculum. Sure, critical thinking, analysis, blah, blah, blah. Why not require another science class that has more application to med school? Even for pharm and biochem, all the organic chemistry you need is taught in the first couple weeks of the course, as I've said numerous times before. Most of the chemical concepts you need to understand molecular function, such as polarity, pH, reaction rates, etc., are from earlier chemistry courses. There are plenty of other chemistry courses that would suit pre-meds better than organic does. Biochem and PChem come to mind. Perhaps an introductory pharmacology course would be a decent plan, too. Those first few subjects of organic do need to be covered somewhere, though, and that would present a bit of a problem.
Biochem, sure, but PChem? Really?? If you think that organic doesn't apply to medicine, I'd like to see the stretch of logic that makes PChem applicable. Assuming you learn very basic thermodynamics in gen chem, I don't see what pchem has to offer.
 

Practitioner

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There are plenty of other chemistry courses that would suit pre-meds better than organic does. Biochem and PChem come to mind. Perhaps an introductory pharmacology course would be a decent plan, too. Those first few subjects of organic do need to be covered somewhere, though, and that would present a bit of a problem.
Yeah, biochem. But in order for much of that to make sense you'd need ochem background. Pharmacology might have been nice, seeing how many of my friends hated that in med school. At least being primed with it, even at a basic level, might have helped.
 

MilkmanAl

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I'm just saying I think it's better, not necessarily good. :p A semester of inorganic chem might be a decent addition, too. Maybe they could roll the useful parts of organic and inorganic into one semester or something? I dunno. In any event, the current system is not exactly optimal.

edit: On second thought, I think I'm confusing what I learned in which classes. Scratch PChem.
 
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tremulousNeedle

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It is fact that the MCAT (through preparation with at least one year each of the four basic science courses) is used to uniformly assess applicants' critical thinking & problem solving abilities and to a lesser extent evaluate an applicant’s understanding of basic science principles.

You can find students and physicians who think that particular sections of the MCAT (and basic science requirements) could be eliminated. I completely agree that the content of the basic sciences is minimally important for becoming a physician. As I complete medical school, if I rely on any basic science information from undergrad, it is merely at a subconscious level.

The system's methods for uniformly assessing students (i.e. the MCAT as well as the USMLE board exams) are imperfect. Maybe there will be some budding trailblazers on this thread who will shake things up at the AAMC.
 

vin5cent0

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I suck at organic chemistry. A woman who came in to speak to us about medical school also told us Organic was her first C. Now she's a resident at Mayo. A personal family friend of my father's also told me he sucked at Organic. He is now the head of a dept. at Mayo Clinic. Am I worried? Nah
 

surftheiop

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Biochem, sure, but PChem? Really?? If you think that organic doesn't apply to medicine, I'd like to see the stretch of logic that makes PChem applicable. Assuming you learn very basic thermodynamics in gen chem, I don't see what pchem has to offer.
You don't see how perturbing a particle in an infinitely deep well applies to medicine? Shame on you :p
 

CarlATHF

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Many genetics courses (at least those that require problem solving) have the same idea: memorize/figure out a couple of basic rules and use those to solve a huge variety of problems. It's more pertinent to medicine, so why not require genetics?
 

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Maybe there will be some budding trailblazers on this thread who will shake things up at the AAMC.
I hope to. But I have to get through the current system first. By which point I may be too defeated, or have a drastic change in focus of "ultimate goals" than I do now.

Or I may not be capable (or competent) enough either way.
 

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As a chemist, I think organic chem was one of the most interesting courses, though I prefer physical chem. Organic chem is important for med/vet and the biological sciences however.
 

Procyon

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I'm just saying I think it's better, not necessarily good. :p A semester of inorganic chem might be a decent addition, too. Maybe they could roll the useful parts of organic and inorganic into one semester or something? I dunno. In any event, the current system is not exactly optimal.

edit: On second thought, I think I'm confusing what I learned in which classes. Scratch PChem.
That's what nursing majors do at my school, I think. They just take a one semester megachem course with stuff from inorganic, organic, and biochem all rolled into one.

surftheiop said:
The thing I find amusing about organic is what other chemists think about it.

I took quantum mech and physical chem before organic and it seemed like twice a week our professors would be like "now you know those hand waving organic chemists will try to tell you....." and I think one of them started the semester by saying "I'm sorry for those of you who will have to take organic after this, but after taking this class you'll see that organic chemists just make crap up to justify themselves"

Then the organic profs must defend themselves so I then hear stuff like "Well those physical chemists just sit there solving the Schrodinger, never seen one actually do something useful"
:laugh: I wonder what a physical organic chemist would say about this.
 

rockaction

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Organic is the best class ever. I love Organic. UTSAPremed is dead-on with the intuitive side of Organic. Sure, it may not be the only class that teaches you how to think, but it's a foundational class in establishing a baseline of scientific literacy for future doctors.
 
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Hey guys,
you might be shocked when you hear this, as I had never though of organic this way but it makes sense. I was lucky enough to speak with a member of the board of Admissions at UTSW and he explained to me why your grade organic chemistry has a significant impact on schools decision of whether you will be successful in med school and as a practicing physician, and it makes sense bc:

" you're never going to be asked to synthesize 2,3-dimethylcyclohexane in medical school, but what organic teaches you is how to problem solve!Sometimes, the problems are solved forwards; sometimes they are solved backwards. After doing these problems you develop a problem solving strategy that will prove handy in medicine and heres why:

In organic, you are given a series of rules that you have to learn, or I should say master. Once you've learned these basic rules (the reactions), you use them as a guide to arrive at the final problem. However, the problem is not always arrived at simply. Sometimes,you have to go back and re-trace your steps and figure out where you went wrong. Use the rules, and clues, to devise another method of arriving at the solution (the product)

Essentially, this is the same thought process that goes into medicine.
Alot of times you use your knowledge and basic rules (about signs, symptoms, vitals, a type of infection) to arrive at a solution ( a diagnosis and treatment option). A lot of times, this might not work and so you have to go back, re-trace your steps, and see where you might have made a mistake. revaluate the patient, and devise a new way of arriving at the product (helping the patient recover w an alternative treatment plan)

Makes sense, doesn't it?
Hey guys I need some help . Sounds like ochem is big for med school.I will be a freshman this fall 2010 but did my last two yrs of high school at a 4 yr university. I was thinking of taking ochem and microbiology over the summerso I could get it over with and concentrate on other course work.Do you think it is a good idea . Ps let me know as I need to register soon.
thanks
 

werd

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well i like(d) organic, and agree it's a good litmus test for problem-solving ability. organic needs to stay a med school prereq because pretty much all of human metabolism is based on organic chemical reactions.
 

surftheiop

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I'm really good at Organic, but to be honest I think its more just a visual pattern recognition thing for me. Hardly can even call it problem solving, once I practice enough its like I just look at a synthesis target and see "relics" of the reactions that it took to get there. I feel I have very little actual understanding about the chemistry, I just know how to "manipulate the symbols".
 

armybound

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That's what nursing majors do at my school, I think. They just take a one semester megachem course with stuff from inorganic, organic, and biochem all rolled into one.



:laugh: I wonder what a physical organic chemist would say about this.
I read a report from Harvard that was published a few years ago where they basically said the pre-med curriculum was stupid and that they should move toward a class that teaches medically-relevant biochem, biology, organic chem, chemistry, and physics together since there's little need for 2 semesters of each of those.
 
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The thing I find amusing about organic is what other chemists think about it.

I took quantum mech and physical chem before organic and it seemed like twice a week our professors would be like "now you know those hand waving organic chemists will try to tell you....." and I think one of them started the semester by saying "I'm sorry for those of you who will have to take organic after this, but after taking this class you'll see that organic chemists just make crap up to justify themselves"

Then the organic profs must defend themselves so I then hear stuff like "Well those physical chemists just sit there solving the Schrodinger, never seen one actually do something useful"
Haha, so true. All the different types of chemists are always saying how the others are not doing it right or are just boring and inapplicable to real life. As if people use MO diagrams on a regular basis? Pa-leeeeez.

I'm just saying I think it's better, not necessarily good. :p A semester of inorganic chem might be a decent addition, too. Maybe they could roll the useful parts of organic and inorganic into one semester or something? I dunno. In any event, the current system is not exactly optimal.

edit: On second thought, I think I'm confusing what I learned in which classes. Scratch PChem.
Thermo stuff is fine but the rest of pchem is almost completely useless. I actually think ochem has been pretty helpful with my other science classes. It makes cellular respiration and acids/bases in analytical chem a lot easier.

In an interview, I compared learning ochem to med school in that you're presented tons of foreign material and are expected to grasp it quickly. I certainly approached that class differently than I did my other prereqs.
 

surftheiop

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Also as dumb as this makes me sound, I don't think I really had a good grasp on what acids/bases actually do until I took O-Chem, so thats something its really nailed down in my mind
 

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" you're never going to be asked to synthesize 2,3-dimethylcyclohexane in medical school, but what organic teaches you is how to problem solve!Sometimes, the problems are solved forwards; sometimes they are solved backwards. After doing these problems you develop a problem solving strategy that will prove handy in medicine and heres why:

In organic, you are given a series of rules that you have to learn, or I should say master. Once you've learned these basic rules (the reactions), you use them as a guide to arrive at the final problem. However, the problem is not always arrived at simply. Sometimes,you have to go back and re-trace your steps and figure out where you went wrong. Use the rules, and clues, to devise another method of arriving at the solution (the product)

Essentially, this is the same thought process that goes into medicine.
Alot of times you use your knowledge and basic rules (about signs, symptoms, vitals, a type of infection) to arrive at a solution ( a diagnosis and treatment option). A lot of times, this might not work and so you have to go back, re-trace your steps, and see where you might have made a mistake. revaluate the patient, and devise a new way of arriving at the product (helping the patient recover w an alternative treatment plan)

Makes sense, doesn't it?
That's what they all say, and you could apply the same logic to make StarCraft II mastery a requirement for medical school.

Don't get me wrong, though, I have found organic chemistry to be useful in medical school classes. The background you get in it helps with all your classes (and with biochem in particular, ofc)
 

niblet

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all of human metabolism is based on organic chemical reactions.
This is the reason it's in the pre-med curriculum. I don't think the problem solving aspect has anything to do with. While it may teach some problem solving skills and demand good ones, organic chemistry is not a requirement for that purpose.
 

IH8ColdWeath3r

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Feb 13, 2010
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Hey guys I need some help . Sounds like ochem is big for med school.I will be a freshman this fall 2010 but did my last two yrs of high school at a 4 yr university. I was thinking of taking ochem and microbiology over the summerso I could get it over with and concentrate on other course work.Do you think it is a good idea . Ps let me know as I need to register soon.
thanks
^It is and it isn't. Organic chemistry isn't hard, It Just takes a tremendous amount of time to learn. From tutoring organic and doing well in the subject, I know from experience so believe me when I say that you need to devote alot of time to it, and the first month to month and a half are the most crucial because that is when you develop your basic understanding that will correlate to your success. So, taking it in the summer helps because you don't have to worry about other classes but since your taking micro, you must be pretty diligent. goodluck
 
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You can learn to solve problems in almost any class.

You can learn to solve problems at a crappy job.

You can learn to solve problems at your house.
Problem solving at home? That's just ridiculous.


RE: Orgo and problem solving:

I really enjoyed Orgo because it made me feel like House. My friends and I would go to a room in the library with a whiteboard and then study for orgo. We'd come up against a synthesis problem (ie, how can you make compound Y from compound X given reagents A, B, and C?). We drew and wrote out the chemical structures and reactions on the board as we thought of them.

My friends would throw out ideas ('differential diagnosis') and I'd point out what was wrong with them ("good thought, but that reaction doesn't maintain the stereospecificity at that carbon"). Then I'd think through it and come up with the solution, sometimes with a little trial and error, and save the day. :thumbup:
 

surftheiop

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Problem solving at home? That's just ridiculous.


RE: Orgo and problem solving:

I really enjoyed Orgo because it made me feel like House. My friends and I would go to a room in the library with a whiteboard and then study for orgo. We'd come up against a synthesis problem (ie, how can you make compound Y from compound X given reagents A, B, and C?). We drew and wrote out the chemical structures and reactions on the board as we thought of them.

My friends would throw out ideas ('differential diagnosis') and I'd point out what was wrong with them ("good thought, but that reaction doesn't maintain the stereospecificity at that carbon"). Then I'd think through it and come up with the solution, sometimes with a little trial and error, and save the day. :thumbup:
:barf:
 

randombetch

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Sep 22, 2009
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Problem solving at home? That's just ridiculous.


RE: Orgo and problem solving:

I really enjoyed Orgo because it made me feel like House. My friends and I would go to a room in the library with a whiteboard and then study for orgo. We'd come up against a synthesis problem (ie, how can you make compound Y from compound X given reagents A, B, and C?). We drew and wrote out the chemical structures and reactions on the board as we thought of them.

My friends would throw out ideas ('differential diagnosis') and I'd point out what was wrong with them ("good thought, but that reaction doesn't maintain the stereospecificity at that carbon"). Then I'd think through it and come up with the solution, sometimes with a little trial and error, and save the day. :thumbup:
:barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf: