Such a thing as being a tad bit too young?

MWillie · Mar 17, 2005

Skip a couple grades?

Law2Doc · Mar 17, 2005

Loco Loki said:
Heh, just wondered if it was a disadvantage to applying when you are still young (18/19).

Myself, I just turned 19, and after submitting secondaries to 48 schools (That's right, forty-eight), I've been rejected by 31 of them, haven't heard back at all from ten, and interviewed at 9 (one MSTP, woo), and I don't have in my hand a single bloomin' acceptance.

Cali resident (going to UCI still, neurobio major), 11 B, 11 V, 10P, P writing, april MCAT, 3.7 cum, 3.8 non-sci, 3.6 sci. General, nothing special EC's: Five years of clinical volunteer work, two of research (no bloody pubs yet), ACLS and BLS certification, three leadership positions, and other crap.

Now my stats aren't stellar and nothing screams all that special, but 48 schools? Hell, somewhere shoulda shown me a bit of faith. Secondaries on average were complete September as well. Meh, just ramblin' on, don't mind me all that much, heh...

I'm sure a lot of schools balked at your age. While your record suggests you will do perfectly fine in the classroom portion of med school, there might be some concern as to how you will be able to handle yourself during the clinical years. Dealing with people facing life and death issues, etc. is hard for people even a few years older than you. If you've ever seen the forms med school interviewers fill out, the number one rating criterion is maturity, and as a 19 year old that might be a hard sell.

Medikit · Mar 17, 2005

So you're on some waitlists i assume. Be patient. I know it's difficult.

LVDoc · Mar 17, 2005

There is a slight disadvantage for younger applicants (<21). According to the MSAR, you will see that the number of accepted applicants that were below a certain age was very few. Obviously, the data is somewhat skewed considering that not many of these younger applicants apply in the first place (there are so few of them); they do get in somewhere though. You interviewed at nine places, which should have been more than enough. I'm sure you'll either get off a waitlist or end up interviewing at a few more schools in the near future. Schools may be hesitant to accept you because they expect a certain level of maturity out of a candidate; sometimes that is not always apparent on paper, but rather must be seen for oneself in an interview. They could also be wondering what your true motivation for wanting to pursue medicine is, such as influence from your parents, or they may be asking themselves why you have not given yourself a chance to explore the diversity of the world and of other possible professions that may interest you, etc. Again, this is all speculation, though I am sure at least one or two of these thoughts have probably entered their minds.

Less than 18 is where the real red-flag occurs. Then again, what school wouldn't want to applaud themselves for graduating one of the youngest doctors in the country?

Chr147 · Mar 17, 2005

Loco Loki said:
Heh, just wondered if it was a disadvantage to applying when you are still young (18/19).

Myself, I just turned 19, and after submitting secondaries to 48 schools (That's right, forty-eight), I've been rejected by 31 of them, haven't heard back at all from ten, and interviewed at 9 (one MSTP, woo), and I don't have in my hand a single bloomin' acceptance.

Cali resident (going to UCI still, neurobio major), 11 B, 11 V, 10P, P writing, april MCAT, 3.7 cum, 3.8 non-sci, 3.6 sci. General, nothing special EC's: Five years of clinical volunteer work, two of research (no bloody pubs yet), ACLS and BLS certification, three leadership positions, and other crap.

Now my stats aren't stellar and nothing screams all that special, but 48 schools? Hell, somewhere shoulda shown me a bit of faith. Secondaries on average were complete September as well. Meh, just ramblin' on, don't mind me all that much, heh...

you go to UCI? hey we should meet up sometime. meet me by the flagpole at noon tomorrow.

love,
francisco

LizH · Mar 17, 2005

I can't help but think that with "life experiences" being such a big thing on applications and in personal statements, that being as young as you are would no doubt have an effect on your application status. Have you met with any people from Med School admissions offices? They might be able to tell you the most and possibly give some reasoning. If all else fails, I would say work toward a master's and give the whole application thing another try. I wish you the best of luck. :luck:

Psycho Doctor · Mar 17, 2005

Chr147 said:
you go to UCI? hey we should meet up sometime. meet me by the flagpole at noon tomorrow.

love,
francisco

flagpole? I assume there's one on the whole campus? can you say stalker?

Psycho Doctor · Mar 17, 2005

Maturity is such a huge thing in medical school and in dealing with clinical and life and death issues. Were you able to demonstrate that in your interviews and in your PS? Do you have clinical experience: volunteer work and shadowing? How were your LOR in relation to these experiences? Did they prove you have maturity beyond your age? This is where the real challenge lies. However 9 interviews is something and at this point you need to update them and let them know how you can handle these issues even at your young age. Best of luck!

BTW: how did you get this far at your age?

ishaninatte · Mar 17, 2005

You know...Doogie was really young when he started, and he dealt with maturity issues episode after episode, for example, by juggling new relationships and teen angst while performing the necessary duties of a physician. I suggest you get an early 90's era computer with a bright blue screen to record your diary in, that way, you can carefully document and reflect upon the conundrums you'll face as an adolescent in this higgldy-piggldy profession.

PreMedAdAG · Mar 17, 2005

Yikes Loco,
I have some more off the wall advice for you that I suggest you at least consider.

Getting a masters: Why? You're 19. Get something different than an academic education. Try attending the school of life for a year. I guarantee, you will be much more wise. Have you thought of traveling? Not studying abroad... just traveling. Have you thought about working in the real world. Things are so different and a classroom cannot provide maturity. Think of it this way. As you become more and more educated, if you hide in a hole, you're still going to go home and play with leggo's or video games. You need to get out and experience the world. At 18-19 I was in High school, going to prom, not worrying about anything.

Take a hint: It's not your scores, it's not your GPA, I definitely think you not getting in has to do with your level of maturity. I don't know how many times we have to say it, you DO NOT need a 40 on the MCAT to go to Med School. I've told this story over and over. I initially got a 23 on the MCAT and pulled it up to a 30. No one ever mentioned my first score or asked about how mediocre my second score was. I was offered 17-18 interviews and I honestly think it's because there was more to my application than just what I had done in school

Volunteer Work: I hate to break it to you, but running urine samples is what volunteers are for. This is why I'm suggesting to get out and work a bit or travel. This is where you gain lifeskills. Volunteering gives you a chance to observe. I'm sorry but I manage 30 volunteers and it drives me nuts when they roll their eyes when I ask for a copy job. The problem is, it's either them or me doing it and it sucks, but it's part of medicine. Volunteering is what you make of it.

MSTP: Here's the other thing I don't get. Have you only applied to MSTP programs? If so, man, you really need to get outside before you get into such an intense program. I know a lot of people who just enjoy being in school and it's like "their thing", but honestly I don't think there is much room for personal growth if you are in school for so long. By the time you graduate you'll be in your late twenties and not a whole lot to show for it, besides letters behind your name. Good luck though, I wish you the best,

.

Loco Loki said:
Heh, that was exactly what I will do LizH, get a masters and try again.Correct you are Medikit, heh, thanks for the empathy.

Anyway, I was able to apply so young just because I made my own road of sorts. Initially I was lucky that in my middle school I was able to take a year's worth of high school courses. I never did graduate high school, skipped out early (Took CHPSP I think it is, not GRE) after exhausting their APs that I wanted to take, and then went to a local community college for a year to tie up loose ends. Then I went to UCI and took loads of units (~18 per quarter). My GPA hasn't really benefited, and if I woulda slowed down a bit I would have a much better GPA, and MCAT (I took 18/24 units for the winter/spring of the MCAT). However, what's done is done I suppose.

As for volunteer work and shadowing, my mom is a nurse in some local hospitals, and through her I had an easy time to find some great docs to shadow, as well as do volunteer work that didn't consist of running unrine samples back and forth to lab.

My LOR are from two CC professors that I essentially count as friends; one plays video games, so we have quite the common ground . Two are from UCI bio profs, whom I know and have dealt with, but one is kinda distant. Another is from a greek teacher who had the letter written by a TA I was really close to. And the final is from a physician I shadowed in the ER. My research prof sat on his letter, so I only sent it to the MSTPs I applied to, because UCI only allows two sets of six letters to be sent through their service.

I'd like to think that I'm mature enough, and would like to think that I have demonstrated it, and I would like to think that I'd be in already. But hey, I'd still like to think the moon is made of grade A swiss, but can't have all that I like.

Anyway, thanks for listenin' in guys, much appreciated. I'd say good luck, but I know some of you are already on your way. But I'll say it anyway, you know, for residency choices that you will face, and those stuck on the waitlist like me . Otherwise, save the luck up for a rainy day as it were.

As for you Mr. Chr147, I'll deal with you later. We'll have a great time I assure you, playing such fun games as "Hare and Stag hunt" and "Prisoner's escape" and who can forget the classic "godIhategametheoryitisdehghey."

Heh, might as well adress why "reject from 31 of them, haven't heard back at all from ten, and interviewed at 9" does not = 48. NW gave me a boot post-interview, and one school I applied to the MD/Phd and MD seperately, so I count that as two. I have two waitlists so far (creigton + "priority waitlist" for MCW), and have yet to hear back from the rest of them. I'm rooting for AECOM (my interviewer matriculated at 19 as well, knew alot of persians, which I am half, and was a neurologist. Loved that interview to death, I hope she liked me as much I as liked her) and U of Utah MSTP. I'll be hearing back from them in early april/late march.

mercaptovizadeh · Mar 17, 2005

I understand where you are coming from. I was 18 last time I applied to med school (summer of 2003). MCAT was 34R (which is OK, but not stellar), physics and biochem/molecular bio major (nearly got a chem minor, as well) at Ivy school, GPA: 3.5, some extracurriculars, volunteered in a children's hospital, music activities, one or two clubs, an overseas experience in Asia, and one and a half years research.

I applied to 17 schools, 16 of which were MSTP and top 20 rank. I got interviews at two, rejection, and a waitlist.

I am reapplying this year, doing a research-focused masters in chemistry, and, having spoken to several people, it seems that age was a big deal. Some of my recommenders may not have allayed their fears about my age enough.

That said, I think that maturity is a big issue with the schools. It has been my experience that people who get to where they are academically are generally more mature as well; it takes maturity to deny yourself a lot of the pleasures/activities that your peers enjoy, for the sake of success.

Also, I specifically wrote a philosophical/experiencial essay based on my experience in Asia, invoking philosophy/theology, and, I thought, came up with some good conclusions. Apparently, this wasn't a great idea, since MSTPs want you to talk about research and nothing but research.

I'll be reapplying this year, with some extra research under my belt and a new MCAT, and I think this time the results may be better. I can't change the GPA, but I do have a few new activities to put on my resume.

I suggest a master's (research focused, your GPA is good enough), and then reapply, and I think you would be in a much better position.

ishaninatte · Mar 17, 2005

Loco Loki said:
Well, check for the computer. As long as I don't fade into obsurcity and then resurface in a hilarious movie about two dudes on a quest to white castle, I'd gladly imitiate Dr. Doogie.

The question is: Can you deliver a baby in a shopping mall to the sound of rockin' keyboard? If so, I think we'd all agree that you are plenty mature enough.

In response to some of the...ehrm...more preachy advice in this thread, do what makes you happy and mature in your own way. No one really goes on a quest for maturity, it just happens somewhere along the way.

And yes, you can play video games in your free time and still be a good doctor. WHEW...I know!

ishaninatte · Mar 17, 2005

Loco Loki said:
Well, I'd get a masters and all just because this is what I like to do. Now, you are far from the first to say that I take a year or so off, and hell, I'd love to take a year off . Infact, I think I'd take part in something called the JET program, going to Japan and teaching english for a bit. No one I know hasn't loved it immensely.

And there are some really great things about the JET Program, but I suggest you give this site, a good browse before signing up...I'm on it right now, and it's been an experience I'll never forget.

Law2Doc · Mar 17, 2005

mercaptovizadeh said:
It has been my experience that people who get to where they are academically are generally more mature as well; it takes maturity to deny yourself a lot of the pleasures/activities that your peers enjoy, for the sake of success.

I agreed with your above post with the exception of this above sentence. While I agree there is some level of maturity in terms of focus to finish undergrad early, I don't think that is what adcoms mean by maturity. I think the adcoms' concern is probably that a lack of life (outside of studying) experience due to rushing through things at a young age is equivalent to a relative lack of interpersonal relationship experience, which in turn translates to a lack of maturity in dealing with people (esp. in life and death situations) in a clinical setting. I suspect that the adcoms have no issues with the OP or the above poster academically (i.e. they aren't worried you are going to have trouble with the first two years of med school), but are perhaps concerned with whether someone so young is ready to have direct patient interaction in the third and fourth year. For this reason, I've heard that adcoms are not as open to the very young applicants. But I'm sure you will end up at a good place in time.

CaliforniaBound · Mar 17, 2005

Loco Loki said:
Heh, just wondered if it was a disadvantage to applying when you are still young (18/19).

...

Applying young can really be tough...My circumstances are similar to yours! i never attended high school...just started college at age 14. Applied to med school for the first time when i was 19...got waitlisted...never accepted. Applied for the second time this year...i was 20 at the time...and now i'm accepted! My age was definately a flag of concern but it doesn't always mean that you won't be accepted. it really just depends on your life experiences and what you've done. For me...having this year off to teach and volunteer and have more personal time was of extreme benefit to me. Stay strong and remember that it all will happen the way it's supposed to! if you are meant to be a doc and you want that more than anything....then it will happen!

Psycho Doctor · Mar 17, 2005

CaliforniaBound said:
Applying young can really be tough...My circumstances are similar to yours! i never attended high school...just started college at age 14. Applied to med school for the first time when i was 19...got waitlisted...never accepted. Applied for the second time this year...i was 20 at the time...and now i'm accepted! My age was definately a flag of concern but it doesn't always mean that you won't be accepted. it really just depends on your life experiences and what you've done. For me...having this year off to teach and volunteer and have more personal time was of extreme benefit to me. Stay strong and remember that it all will happen the way it's supposed to! if you are meant to be a doc and you want that more than anything....then it will happen!

wow what a child prodigy!! in retrospect are you glad you skipped hs and started college so young? out of curiosity how/why did you do it?

Blue Scrub · Mar 17, 2005

Real life Doogie Howsers...wow, that's cool I guess....do you child prodigys ever feel like you miss out on being a regular, average teenager or anything like that?

antissa · Mar 17, 2005

I'm yet another 19 year old who's had a hard time with applications this year. I'm glad to hear that age could be what pooh-poohed my application because I'm at my wits end, trying to figure out what to improve since I thought I was pretty thorough in making sure all aspects of my application was up to par. I was under the impression that they were not legally allowed to discriminate based on age (along with sex, race, etc.) but I guess that applies mostly to older applicants

CaliforniaBound · Mar 17, 2005

Psycho Doctor said:
wow what a child prodigy!! in retrospect are you glad you skipped hs and started college so young? out of curiosity how/why did you do it?

The highschools in my town growing up were not very strong academically. My parents had always placed great importance on my education and so they really didn't want me attending them. The local community college in our town allowed hs junior and seniors the chance to enroll in some classes. Since i had proven to be a strong academic candidate in grade school/middle school we thought that i could handle college. So i went down there and sat for the entrance exam! Trust me there were some protests....but there college bulletin didn't say that i couldn't sit for the exam...so they had to let me! i passed and persuaded the college prez that i could handle it! He warned me that the grades i would get would be permanent. it's crazy because i was enrolled in college bio and gen chem when i was 15 and 16 years old! it was a new experience...but i had fun and got involved in extracurriculars and academic programs that were challenging and fun! in some ways i wish i had the carefree years of hs but in other ways i'm glad that i did what i did. i'm going to graduate from med school when i'm 24 and have more years ahead of me....i guess there is not right or wrong way just what fits best for each person! it's been tough though....i've had to prove myself ready to med school. it's a two edged sword....they are amazed to have a "child prodigy" who has accomplished so much applying to their school...but then they are wary and wonder if you are mature enough. For me the personal interview was my best friend...they were able to meet me in person and realize that i am mature and can handle the rigors of med school! The year that i spent off from school was most beneficial to me and i feel it helped prepare me both mentally and socially.

CaliforniaBound · Mar 17, 2005

antissa said:
I'm yet another 19 year old who's had a hard time with applications this year. I'm glad to hear that age could be what pooh-poohed my application because I'm at my wits end, trying to figure out what to improve since I thought I was pretty thorough in making sure all aspects of my application was up to par. I was under the impression that they were not legally allowed to discriminate based on age (along with sex, race, etc.) but I guess that applies mostly to older applicants

Your stats are awesome! There is no reason other than age that i can see for your delayed acceptance. Unfortunately med schools can say that they don't discriminate but the bottom line is that they can do whatever the hell they want to....and if questioned use some other excuse for not letting you in. Perhaps they wanted you to have more shadowing experience or play 10 instruments instead of 9

Unfortunately they get to do whatever they want to and we just have to sit there and deal with it...or maybe if we get upset enough we could stage a revolt!!! Seriously though...don't give up...you go for your dreams and don't let anyone or any school stand in your way!

notdeadyet · Mar 17, 2005

antissa said:
I was under the impression that they were not legally allowed to discriminate based on age (along with sex, race, etc.) but I guess that applies mostly to older applicants

They aren't allowed to discriminate on the basis of age, young or old. But they can discriminate based on lack of experience. And unfortunately, no matter how much living you pack into your teenage years, it can only amount to so much.
Judging from your MDApplicants info, I'm sure you'll get in somewhere, it's just a matter of time. And I know Canadian med schools can be even more hellish to get into than US. Good luck...

PreMedAdAG · Mar 17, 2005

I have a valid concern...

Why are there so many young individuals who can't wait to grow up? What happened to enjoying your youth and living your childhood. I seriously have issues with that (I'm not attacking anyone by the way, just explaining my own opinion). I worry that when kids have a limited childhood that weird things happen to them when they are adults.

I want my kids to wrestle in the mud, stick jelly beans up their noses, get in trouble for drinking, get a detention, and fall in love. I just think you miss those things when you're finishing your college degree at age 17-18. How do you relate with your peers.

Honestly not that anyone will care, but take a minute, breathe and just enjoy being young! It's awesome!!!

CaliforniaBound · Mar 17, 2005

PreMedAdAG said:
I have a valid concern...

Why are there so many young individuals who can't wait to grow up? What happened to enjoying your youth and living your childhood. I seriously have issues with that (I'm not attacking anyone by the way, just explaining my own opinion). I worry that when kids have a limited childhood that weird things happen to them when they are adults.

I want my kids to wrestle in the mud, stick jelly beans up their noses, get in trouble for drinking, get a detention, and fall in love. I just think you miss those things when you're finishing your college degree at age 17-18. How do you relate with your peers.

Honestly not that anyone will care, but take a minute, breathe and just enjoy being young! It's awesome!!!

Can't advocate for others who are young but i can say that for myself i have enjoyed every minute of my childhood...and just because i was in college classes at a younger age i still hung out with my peers and did all the "normal" things that teens do! i wrestled in the mud...put things in my nose...fell in love...all of that jazz....i understand that some people are socially stunted when placed in a high paced environment too young...but you can still be socially mature depending on your friends and outside experiences. As for relating to my peers...i've personally had no problem. if anything...most people are jelous when they hear that i graduated at 20...they wish they were young with a degree under their belt! Everyone is entitled to their own opinion....and i totally understand where you are coming from...but i gotta defend us "youngins"! the only problem i've encountered is in getting dates...most guys are intimidated....hmmm

Guess i'm gonna be an old maid doc :laugh:

Everyone should enjoy being young...we are all gonna be old before we realize it! Agghh!!!

opinionkitten · Mar 17, 2005

am i the first to notice that youve had 8 interviews? why are you upset about this? I would say 8 interviews is well over the average for a 32 mcat applicant, i think you are doing excellent. your stats are in that danger zone where kids can still get overlooked by a lot of schools. aecom is a great school and where a lot of kids from my school (ucsd) with similar stats as yours end up. you have a relatively normal application experience for 32/3.7 i would say and while it sucks that you dont have an acceptance in hand yet, there are plenty of 22/23 year olds with your stats in your same boat.

i think it wise to thank your stars for 8 interviews and quit crying age discrimination till your waitlists play out.

LVDoc · Mar 17, 2005

opinionkitten said:
am i the first to notice that youve had 8 interviews? why are you upset about this? I would say 8 interviews is well over the average for a 32 mcat applicant, i think you are doing excellent. your stats are in that danger zone where kids can still get overlooked by a lot of schools. aecom is a great school and where a lot of kids from my school (ucsd) with similar stats as yours end up. you have a relatively normal application experience for 32/3.7 i would say and while it sucks that you dont have an acceptance in hand yet, there are plenty of 22/23 year olds with your stats in your same boat.

i think it wise to thank your stars for 8 interviews and quit crying age discrimination till your waitlists play out.

lol. This was the same thing I initially said, but I suppose everyone overlooked it. Nine interviews is plenty, and I am pretty sure those waitlists will move forward.

Chr147 · Mar 17, 2005

Loco Loki said:
Hell, I have plenty of fun.

Just because we have high ambitions doesn't mean that is all we are. We work hard, and we play hard .

play hard? you didn't even meet me today. i hardly consider THAT playing hard. ill be there at noon again tomorrow. look for a blue chihuahua

MuAhZzZzZz

Crete · Mar 17, 2005

Loco Loki said:
Heh, that was exactly what I will do LizH, get a masters and try again.

Correct you are Medikit, heh, thanks for the empathy.

Anyway, I was able to apply so young just because I made my own road of sorts. Initially I was lucky that in my middle school I was able to take a year's worth of high school courses. I never did graduate high school, skipped out early (Took CHPSP I think it is, not GRE) after exhausting their APs that I wanted to take, and then went to a local community college for a year to tie up loose ends. Then I went to UCI and took loads of units (~18 per quarter). My GPA hasn't really benefited, and if I woulda slowed down a bit I would have a much better GPA, and MCAT (I took 18/24 units for the winter/spring of the MCAT). However, what's done is done I suppose.

As for volunteer work and shadowing, my mom is a nurse in some local hospitals, and through her I had an easy time to find some great docs to shadow, as well as do volunteer work that didn't consist of running unrine samples back and forth to lab.

My LOR are from two CC professors that I essentially count as friends; one plays video games, so we have quite the common ground . Two are from UCI bio profs, whom I know and have dealt with, but one is kinda distant. Another is from a greek teacher who had the letter written by a TA I was really close to. And the final is from a physician I shadowed in the ER. My research prof sat on his letter, so I only sent it to the MSTPs I applied to, because UCI only allows two sets of six letters to be sent through their service.

I'd like to think that I'm mature enough, and would like to think that I have demonstrated it, and I would like to think that I'd be in already. But hey, I'd still like to think the moon is made of grade A swiss, but can't have all that I like.

Anyway, thanks for listenin' in guys, much appreciated. I'd say good luck, but I know some of you are already on your way. But I'll say it anyway, you know, for residency choices that you will face, and those stuck on the waitlist like me . Otherwise, save the luck up for a rainy day as it were.

As for you Mr. Chr147, I'll deal with you later. We'll have a great time I assure you, playing such fun games as "Hare and Stag hunt" and "Prisoner's escape" and who can forget the classic "godIhategametheoryitisdehghey."

Heh, might as well adress why "reject from 31 of them, haven't heard back at all from ten, and interviewed at 9" does not = 48. NW gave me a boot post-interview, and one school I applied to the MD/Phd and MD seperately, so I count that as two. I have two waitlists so far (creigton + "priority waitlist" for MCW), and have yet to hear back from the rest of them. I'm rooting for AECOM (my interviewer matriculated at 19 as well, knew alot of persians, which I am half, and was a neurologist. Loved that interview to death, I hope she liked me as much I as liked her) and U of Utah MSTP. I'll be hearing back from them in early april/late march.

You are definitely at a disadvantage. Adcoms will wonder why you chose to take 18/24 unit quarters when you were so young. The first thing my counselor told me as a freshman was if you will be under 21 when you matriculate, consider taking a year off. Adcoms are already worried about your maturity and people skills so young, and they will see their worries as validated when they notice you took so many units at the expense of your G.P.A. Get your master's; you will be as old as the rest of us, more mature, and if you stay involved in community outreach activities and volunteering, will show that not only are you intelligent and hard-working, but have the concern for others, experience in medicine, and interpersonal skills they are looking for. Good luck, PM me if you have any questions!

leverp2000 · Mar 17, 2005

For all you youngins', there is hope for getting into meds chool or at least MSTP. I am 19 (summer birthday) and applying in this cycle.

I've been pretty sucessful in the MSTP process. I applied to 11 schools, all MSTP, and got interviews at all of them. I went to 9 interviews, and have 3 MSTP acceptances (at top 20 schools), 1 MD/PhD acceptance, and a waitlist at Harvard HST. My stats are very good and I have a lot of research experience, some shadowing experience, but no volunteering and limited student clubs.

I think that the key is to success is stressing your maturity at interviews and making a good first impression. To get the interviews, it helps to have your recommendors specifically address your maturity. My interviewers were impressed that I thought things through so much and that I had good reasons for doing MSTP. I think the key thing is to come across like you've thought about medicine seriously and that you are not just going through all of the premed motions. Also, applying MD and MSTP may get you in a bit of trouble with both MD and MSTP programs. The med school interviewers will ask you why you're not applying to MSTP and the MSTP programs will question your commitment to MSTP. So, you need to have some good answers for those questions.

The other key thing in the interview is to be passionate about describing your hobbies. Every interviewer I've talked to has asked me what I like to do for fun. I'm not sure if this is a common question, but it seems like they hit me with this quite a bit. They want to make sure that students are normal and have a life, and this seems to be a stigma especially against younger students (as evidenced by some of the posts on this thread). So I think that is a very important question for younger students to answer. People seem to have this stigma that we miss out on our childhoods and do nothing but study. This is blatantly false, but you still need to convince the adcoms

.

Good luck to all of you, and I'm sure we'll all be doctors soon enough.

leverp2000

Crete · Mar 17, 2005

leverp2000 said:
For all you youngins', there is hope for getting into meds chool or at least MSTP. I am 19 (summer birthday) and applying in this cycle.

I've been pretty sucessful in the MSTP process. I applied to 11 schools, all MSTP, and got interviews at all of them. I went to 9 interviews, and have 3 MSTP acceptances (at top 20 schools), 1 MD/PhD acceptance, and a waitlist at Harvard HST. My stats are very good and I have a lot of research experience, some shadowing experience, but no volunteering and limited student clubs.

I think that the key is to success is stressing your maturity at interviews and making a good first impression. To get the interviews, it helps to have your recommendors specifically address your maturity. My interviewers were impressed that I thought things through so much and that I had good reasons for doing MSTP. I think the key thing is to come across like you've thought about medicine seriously and that you are not just going through all of the premed motions. Also, applying MD and MSTP may get you in a bit of trouble with both MD and MSTP programs. The med school interviewers will ask you why you're not applying to MSTP and the MSTP programs will question your commitment to MSTP. So, you need to have some good answers for those questions.

The other key thing in the interview is to be passionate about describing your hobbies. Every interviewer I've talked to has asked me what I like to do for fun. I'm not sure if this is a common question, but it seems like they hit me with this quite a bit. They want to make sure that students are normal and have a life, and this seems to be a stigma especially against younger students (as evidenced by some of the posts on this thread). So I think that is a very important question for younger students to answer. People seem to have this stigma that we miss out on our childhoods and do nothing but study. This is blatantly false, but you still need to convince the adcoms .

Good luck to all of you, and I'm sure we'll all be doctors soon enough.

leverp2000

Congratulations! But Md/PhD is another beast altogether. Those programs are looking for leaders among future scientists. Do you think you would have had this success for straight MD, especially with no volunteering experience? This is similar to the, "which is harder, MD or MD/PhD" debate. If you have the research, MD/PhD is easier to get into.

antissa · Mar 17, 2005

Yeah, I think the "missing out on a normal childhood" concern might apply to real child prodigies (I read about some guy graduating university at the age of 15 because he pretty much skipped all of high school), but not so much for us. So I skipped a couple grades, but they were spread out - one back in elementary schools, one in high school, and if I'd gotten in this year, I would've missed my last year of undergrad - and I don't think that having 5 years of elementary school instead of 6, for example, held me back from shoving all the things I wanted up my nose :laugh:

By the end of high school, I'd done all the things I wanted (yes, got suspended, fell in love, got caught by security guards fooling around in the handicapped bathroom and all that crazy stuff I won't be disclosing in my application) and didn't see why I ought to stick around for another year twiddling my thumbs when I could move on to bigger and better things. I just hate being idle, so I multi-tasked in the summers because I'm happiest when I'm busy (job, summer school) and accumulated enough credits to graduate a year early.
And contrary to the stereotype about social awkwardness and not being able to fit in, fitting in with a new set of people is precisely that I liked about the whole thing. I always thought it was cool how flexible we all are - like every year of undergrad, I think that I couldn't possibly study any harder than I am now (not enough hours in the day), but every year gets progessively harder so I have to, until one day I find I'm going harder than I would've thought possible before. You become as old as the people you interact with every day, which is why I think it sucks that schools might reject me before even meeting me, based on my birthdate. I stopped being someone born in 1985 the first time I skipped a grade and amalgamated myself into the older class, and so on the next time. Most people are surprised when they find out how old I am, and I certainly don't think of myself as younger than my classmates on a daily basis, so I really think it shouldn't matter. I think I'm as ready to deal with the realities of death, disease and medicine as someone who had that extra year of sex-ed and french in grade 4.

leverp2000 · Mar 17, 2005

Crete said:
Congratulations! But Md/PhD is another beast altogether. Those programs are looking for leaders among future scientists. Do you think you would have had this success for straight MD, especially with no volunteering experience? This is similar to the, "which is harder, MD or MD/PhD" debate. If you have the research, MD/PhD is easier to get into.

I think that MSTP is probably easier for me, given my extensive research experience. All of my work fits with the MSTP philosophy nicely, so that may be part of my success. I didn't really consider applying MD only, because that just doesn't fit me as well. I'm an academic and a scientist at heart.
The MSTP process is quite competitive, even more so than MD applications, because there are fewer spots. For me, however, I think its still easier to get into MSTP programs, given my lack of volunteering. Thus, for the people looking to do an MD/PhD but applying to MD schools, it may actually be more worthwhile to apply to all MD/PhD's, unless you have a lot of clinical experience.

antissa said:
Most people are surprised when they find out how old I am, and I certainly don't think of myself as younger than my classmates on a daily basis, so I really think it shouldn't matter.

Unforunately, I don't have that luxury. In addition to being young, I also look a young for my age

. Trying to grow some facial hair to remedy that, but the beard isn't coming in

.

antissa · Mar 17, 2005

leverp2000 said:
Unforunately, I don't have that luxury. In addition to being young, I also look a young for my age . Trying to grow some facial hair to remedy that, but the beard isn't coming in .

At least you guys have the option of facial hair to make you look older. I also look young but I think my wild card is that I'm asian and people don't know WHAT to make of how old I "look" since it's often deceptive for us. I'd have to grow a new face to look older... although certain hairstyles help, I guess.

Congrats on beating the odds! Do you mind if I ask about your stats/extracurrics/application experiences? I'm trying to figure out what to change for next year. Also, I'm curious about your story and how you wound up a young'un

mercaptovizadeh · Mar 18, 2005

Leverp2000: I was wondering, what did you write about in your

1.) AMCAS personal statement
2.) Medical secondary essays
3.) MD/PhD secondary essays

I guess the latter two are kind of direct answers to a questions; what really interests me is what you wrote about in AMCAS. My essay was one of those life-and-death philosophy essays, and it could be a stand alone essay, i.e. it was not obviously part of an MD application. It seems to me that this *might* work for just MD, but that it might have given off alarm bells of international medicine (as opposed to basic research) to the MD/PhD committees, so I don't want to repeat the mistake. So, what did you write about?

papertools2003 · Mar 18, 2005

this is a difficult situation for you and the admissions committee.

although you have a strong academic record, the level of maturity becomes a factor (if you are under 21). maturity in terms of how you react to the interview questions and how you respond. unless you are a "pure genuine genius" my advice is to stop applying, and start on a second degree bachelors or a masters then reapply. you must remember that all the schools applied and their admission decisions are shared. the more rejections you have the worse it will look. one of the first things the admissions committee sees when opening your file is if you were in the system. i hope this helps.

leverp2000 · Mar 18, 2005

Loco Loki said:
leverp2000, congrats on your acceptances! Yeah, nothing else to say... damn final at 8 *grunt*...

Thanks Loco Loki. I wish you luck on the waitlists. I'm sure you'll be fine.

antiscca, meza: PMs sent.

PreMedAdAG · Mar 19, 2005

Well I have to say I admire your confidence as "younger" types, so no worries there!

I guess my concern is this. I'm 23, and everyone I meet thinks i'm like 28-29. I look older, I act older, etc. The problem is that when I took a year off from school and worked, traveled, just sat on my ass after work, I was amazingly surprised how fast time goes. I'm at this point where people don't say to me anymore "oh, enjoy being young" and I miss that.

I had a soccer coach in high school ask me the same question every time we played a tough team. She said, "Og, how old are you?" and I responded, "I'm 15". I was 15!! I can't hold on to that anymore, so I'm just saying for those of you who are pushing it to become doctors at the speed of sound, just don't freak out if it doesn't work out the first time you apply. No matter how mature you think you are, or how mature people think you are, you maturity will never be defined by a classroom setting.

I continue to learn lessons every day and I'm stoked that I've slowed things down for now. I was on the path to early success and marriage! Yikes, now I'm just concerned with enjoying being 23. And next year, though I'll have plenty to keep me busy, I intend on enjoying being 24. If that is ever taken away from you at any point, then maybe check yo 'self before you riggity wreck yo' self. :laugh:

Good luck to you youngins, way to keep it real

mercaptovizadeh · Mar 19, 2005

leverp2000 said:
Thanks Loco Loki. I wish you luck on the waitlists. I'm sure you'll be fine.

antiscca, meza: PMs sent.

Thanks leverp2000, that really helped.

drguy22 · Mar 19, 2005

i recieved my acceptance in August( i was 19) and im 20 now and ill be starting med school thus August...i dont think that the medical school had any problem by the fact that im young.....and i am not a genious....far from it.

musiclink213 · Mar 19, 2005

Nice to know I'm not the only young one out there. I graduated high school early, since my school ran on credits, and i came in with a bunch, and then being in the music program and pit band gave me a bunch more credits. So i couldn't really stick around since i'd have no more classes to take. anyway, i'll be applying this june, right around the time i turn 20 (my birthday is in june) and i talked to my advisor about my age.

she asked me about my EC's and i told her (they include study abroad, VP of SAACS, figure skating, volunteering, tutoring, and work in the stockroom off the top of my head). from what she told me, as long as my MCAT scores are good, and i maintain my GPA, I should get in somewhere. I'm hoping she didn't lie.

maybe if you're a younger applicant, they want to see more than just science ec's? Not sure, that'd be my guess.

To alll those who think we have no life, don't worry. I haven't been shoving my schedule full of credits to graduate, since i'm still graduating college in 4 years. i got to take a bunch of classes that interest me, which is nice. and i was given the oppurtunity to have a childhood when i was younger. although i never stuck jelly beans up my nose, but i'd stick my fingers everywhere, almost got them cut off once too. plenty of broken bones to go along with it too.

but i guess if you go for interviews and you look young, it could be a bad first impression issue. For girls, what i've noticed is shorter hair tends to make you look older. Don;t know why, but every time I cut my hair short, people think I'm older or at least the same age as my sister, whos 22.

lynnier79 · Mar 25, 2005

hey Loco,

I think we met at your Utah interview. I was the girl in your group. and i have a little advice (ignore it if you want to, take it to heart if you want to ) as someone who has been told she is "old." I'm 25 now, and I'll be 26 when I start.

My impressions of you at the interview were that you were a wildly successful, motivated, ambitious young man. I was not the only one who gasped with surprise when i found out your age that weekend. I think the other 4 of us all agreed that we were very impressed with the way that you handled yourself in what can be a very stressful situation.

That said, the other thing that I have noticed since I have been applying to MSTP and MD/PhD programs this year is that there IS a premium put on actual time and experience in the field. I have applied to 23 schools (and I though I had a lot of secondaries, but thats nothing compared to you!) and I got 20 interviews. Of those, I have 1 rejection so far, a few waitlists and a large number of acceptances (one of which is Utah). This is my third year out of school -- and its not like I have anything too stellar in my protfolio that makes it stand out -- what I have is a lot of experience, both in research and in the clinic.

One of the things that I think interviewers like to hear is that we as applicants know exactly what we are getting into. We know what doing 60 hours a week of research is like. and thats not something that we can ever get in college, because we have to balance our research with classes and sports and friends, etc. Full time research is really its own beast, and I think that many MD/PhD programs feel we need to have experiences it to know what we want.

As for clinical stuff -- I think the situation is a similar one. We have all had many "doctoring fantasies" since our youth -- saving lives, making a difference, etc. Very few applicants, especially MD/PhD ones seem to have much clinical experience, though, when we apply. It helps. Its important to know what everyday medicine is like, not from a volunteer perspective, because thats a little more fun, but from the perspective of an attending. It seems to me that the way to do that is to work clinically, full time.

So, as you think about what you plan to do this year just realize that you, and we all, have plenty of time ahead of us. There is no need to rush, and accelerating the journey only detracts from it. we just need to let ourselves enjoy the process of becoming whatever we are going ot become. if we are not happy doing that, then how will we ever know when we have arrived?

best of luck to you,

lynnie

emeka · Mar 25, 2005

I just couldn't resist to add to this one.

I am 20 (late birthday) and finishing up my first year of MD studies at the University of Manitoba, Winnipeg.
I can't say for sure that one is discriminated against because they're young, but I think the interviewers want too see that applicants are mature and caring. I fulfilled this requirements with my extensive volunteering and extracurricular activities. Prior to medschool, 'volunteer' was basically my middle name. In fact it took away from my academic performance. My MCAT and GPA were mediocre (VR 9 PS 10 BS 9 WS R), (GPA 4.1 on a 4.5 scale).

The interview was also a great avenue to demonstrate my maturity. Maybe it also helped that I have facial hair and look older.

To my stuggling young colleagues, I would say that you can try to buffer up your extra-curricular activities, no matter how extensive they are now.

Keep up the determination and struggle, you'll definitely be successful.

roadrunnerrita · Mar 25, 2005

I know it takes a long time to go to medical school, but I think everyone should go out and live on their own and work for at least a year before they go. Simply to prevent burn out and have a chance to do something else.

Such a thing as being a tad bit too young?

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