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doc2mohsen

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hi guys plz i have a question regarding the summer researches in american universities;
does this research could help in the match as a US experience instead of electives?
i know it is not clinical experience but does it help at least by any way
if i could get such opportunity should i take it?
plz tell me the advantages of these researches
plz guys anybody know anything plz help me
thnxxxxxxxxx:)
 

leorl

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clinical experience will always outweigh research. However, if you have enough time (ie. you will do at least 2 summer electives in the US as well as research), then go for the research too. It can only help. It would also mainly help if it's in the field you would like to end up in, and if you could get a publication out of it (even if it's just a poster or abstract).
 

doc2mohsen

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well,leorl now i have the chance only for the research , i tried very hard on electives but i couldn't . so it the only way for me now.
i realy need yr advice & it means alot to me.
what should i do?????
and what are the other ways i can get us experience through???????
is it only the electives?
 

leorl

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why can you not get US electives? You can't get clinical experience unless you do electives. However, it may be possible to do observerships (where you aren't really allowed to do anything except observe). I guess take that if you can't do electives, although observerships don't really do much in terms of getting letters because people don't have anything to write about unless they see you in action. But something is better than nothing.

Alternatively, you could spend time doing electives in places where you can do them. It sounds like you are a non-US IMG. So, US electives aren't as important for you as it is for US IMGs, although obviously many programs would prefer to see US experience. Depending what field you want to go into, some programs are ok with no US experience, but will make you do observerships prior to starting the program. But since you may have to do observerships either way, I guess if you can't get electives then you can enquire about observerships.

Research is an additional thing. It won't take the place of some sort of clinical experience, but if you have some then it's a good additional thing to do. If this is your only option, then I'd take it. I'm assuming that you have clinical experience from your own medical program and have people who could write you good letters from those rotations/experiences. However, really try to get research related to the field that you want to go into, and have good clinical experience (at home) in that field too.
 

mmed

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I agree with leorl. Research will not help so much except in research oriented specialty like pathology but still this is not for example a research for few months without any production (publications, conferences ….). The benefits from the option in your hand, from my opinion, are to be involved in the system to some degree, get LORs which may help, exposure to language and improve communication skills to great extent. So, take it and as leorl said it is better than nothing. Do not rely on those few months and ignore the important parts in your application; competitive USMLE scores from first time, good performance in medical school, clinical rotations in US, Good LORs from US faculties you worked with, publications….etc. I know people with not only research for few months, but with PhDs from top universities in US, many publications, active participation in the field of research but with very poor performance in USMLE exams, they are scrambling for many years. Good luck.
 

doc2mohsen

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thnx leorl &mmed for ur valuable advice i really applied to many electives but failed for causes like TOEFL , USMLE step 1 & requirement for being studied surgery, internal med. &psychiatry . well i 'm in my 5th year in college in egypt . so as i mentioned before research is the only option now
i 'll try my luck again with electives and see what will days bring to me
 

leorl

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The main conditions for getting electives are: 1) USMLE Step 1 passing 2) being in final year with all core subjects done (IM, Surgery, Psychiatry, ObGyn, Pediatrics) 3) malpractice insurance .

The first two are easily surpassed by completing requirements in time (ie. before your final year). There are places which will allow you to do electives with those though - I know people have gone to California and New York before their final year. However, options may be slim. The malpractice insurance is something that I do not know how you get around - it may be something you'll have to ask the elective coordinators themselves. Those from western schools (UK, Ireland, Australia) already have medical insurance coverage as students.
 

doc2mohsen

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well, in the summer i'll be in final year but i didnt study SURGERY,IM &PSYCHIATRY yet but studied PEDIATRICS & OBS . i'll be so grateful if u tell me where yr friends done their electives in NY & CALIFORNIA . it 'll be amazing. but still CAL need to pass USMLE STEP 1 .:eek: oh GOD i'm really exhausted from too much thinking in these stuff . i almost neglected my study.:(
 

leorl

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well, i don't have a list and I don't really have time at the moment to go searching. You must do some searching yourself and just look up all the schools and see their requirements. Some people have done Mt. Sinai and I think UCLA and things like that. There's also an elective thread that someone started a while ago, it's stickied. Have a look in that...and if you find anything, please post in that thread.
 

doc2mohsen

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thnx leorl, i have entered that thread y mentioned and tried with many hospitals .i'll try again
 

mmed

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thnx leorl, i have entered that thread y mentioned and tried with many hospitals .i'll try again

I think without passing step1, do not waste your time contacting programs. This is the minimal requirement you can start with
 

leorl

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nah, there are definitely programs which don't require step 1 although I think they might be diminishing and are limited in number. It'd be worth searching them out.
 

Seed

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is there no way to get any clinical experience ,for an IMG ,after having finished med school?
 
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Winged Scapula

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is there no way to get any clinical experience ,for an IMG ,after having finished med school?

The main issue is malpractice coverage. As a student, it is relatively cheap and easy to get; many US hospitals will provide it or your medical school can do so. Once you graduate, clinical experience requires malpractice and most hospitals will not provide it unless you are employed as a resident and have ECFMG certification. This is why so many resort to doing observerships, which do not allow a supervisor to really assess your clinical skills but is perhaps better than nothing.
 

Winged Scapula

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I think without passing step1, do not waste your time contacting programs. This is the minimal requirement you can start with


As leorl notes, there are programs which do not require Step 1, but there are very few which do not require completion of the core requirements. I do not understand why the OP cannot wait until he/she has completed Surgery, Internal Medicine, OB/Gyn, Peds and Psychiatry before coming to the US for electives. If its a matter of timing, perhaps he/she needs to discuss this with their medical school about rearranging the schedule to fit US requirements.
 

doc2mohsen

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well, if i have found an elective chance, what is the minimum period needed to get a US clinical experience (couple months, six or a year)?
 

leorl

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basically as much as you can... normally people have around 2 or 3 months, unless your school permits more. Some people have done more by skipping their own school's education, but this isn't necessarily advisable.
 

doc2mohsen

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mmmmmm thats great cause i was planning for taking one period of 4 weeks
may be i have to reconsider this period havent i?:D
 

leorl

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electives are normally for 4 weeks. Most universities allow a max of 8 week rotations (2 electives) to be done through that university.
 

doc2mohsen

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yeah i know that ,but does the 4 weeks period is sufficient or it is considersd short to be taken in consediration as a clinical experience, in other word , if i go only for one elective period is it useless?
 

leorl

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it's not useless, it's better than nothing. but usually programs like to see that if you're serious about that field, you've done at least two electives in that field. but don't worry about that so much
 

Proud 2 B A Doc

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hi,
i've been lookin into various observership programs and they ask for a 'letter of good standing from the college'??
does any one know what that means?? what should i write in it??
i asked my college , but they dont know..
 

wonderwall

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A question: can you do an elective in the summer before your last medical school year(completed all examinations of that year) or do you have to be in your last year?
 

leorl

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the summer before your last year counts as your last year ;). You stop the previous year as soon as you're done with teaching/exams in the spring, and your last year starts in the summer. However, some electives may require that your core rotations have been completed as well.
 

leorl

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A letter of good standing is a letter from your health science office usually stating which courses you have completed, which courses you still have left to complete, overall performance in the courses you've completed, and whether you are "fit" to perform an elective (i.e. you're in good academic standing and performance has been satisfactory). Usually all schools will state that you're fit for completing electives even if you've had to do a few supplementals or what not. They may not write one if you're owing them money or something like that.
 

leorl

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note - you don't write these letters yourself. It has to come from your school's health science office on their official paper and signed by someone official (i.e the dean)
 

doc2mohsen

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i wanna ask that should electives be in the field i want to take residency on?
well, till now i dont know what speciality i could be in oneday !!!!!!!!! what should i do?
 

leorl

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If you know, try to get one in something related to the area you'd like. If you don't know, think...are you more inclined to do surgery or medicine, and then just go from there. Or maybe you can pick the elective if something you aren't too familiar with or won't be taught that much at your home school. If you can, really try to narrow it down to something in the field(s) you'd be most interested in. For instance, I knew after awhile that I'd like to do emergency medicine...the first elective I did I wasn't able to get EM, so I chose medical ICU because it's related and I loved it. Then fortunately, I was able to get a 2nd EM rotation later in the year...and it was fantastic and confirmed even more that I want to go into that field.
 

wonderwall

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talking about electives: what are core medicine clerkships??If I have Clinical Surgery, Obstetrics and Gynaecology, Paediatrics and Clinical Medicine in my last year of university is there a chance I can do an elective in the summer before my last year in a hospital/university?
 

leorl

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core electives: Psychiatry, Paeds, ObGYN, 8 wks internal medicine, 8 weeks surgery (even though for us we usually have more because we've done specialty work)
 

Seed

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A letter of good standing is a letter from your health science office usually stating which courses you have completed, which courses you still have left to complete, overall performance in the courses you've completed, and whether you are "fit" to perform an elective (i.e. you're in good academic standing and performance has been satisfactory). Usually all schools will state that you're fit for completing electives even if you've had to do a few supplementals or what not. They may not write one if you're owing them money or something like that.


Does this letter of good standing have to be addressed to the specific med school that youre applying to for your elective or is a generic "To whom it may concern" thing?
Also, is this the same as the Dean's letter of recommendation?
 
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