Super not cool: my NPI and address on internet

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toothless rufus

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So googled my name, and found a site listing my NPI number, my license number AND I CANNOT BELIEVE IT, MY HOME ADDRESS!!! How is this possible, and how do I get it removed?!?! Kinda freaked out!

Found out how: have to update my NPI profile and change the info at the NPPES database that automatically displays all this information. WTF.

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So googled my name, and found a site listing my NPI number, my license number AND I CANNOT BELIEVE IT, MY HOME ADDRESS!!! How is this possible, and how do I get it removed?!?! Kinda freaked out!

Found out how: have to update my NPI profile and change the info at the NPPES database that automatically displays all this information. WTF.

Yep. Use your residency address and then a business address, including with your state medical board.
 
Yeah, always use a biz address. Some docs I know used their hotmail or gmail accounts which are now posted on the MN Board of Medical Practice website for all the world to see.

Sorry you're in that position. Some people have said they are afraid to google their names, but it's a really good idea, because one of your patients is probably going to... and it's best to be aware so you can exercise a little control.
 
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You can just go, I think, nppes site and edit your information. When I started residency and was filling out the licensing info I even put my cell on there! It takes a few days after the edit to remove the info though.
 
Thanks for this thread. I've been meaning to change my info for a while but didn't actually do it until now.
 
Yes, definitely keep googling yourself to make sure you're at least aware of it if some webpage out there is putting your info out there for everyone to see.
When one of my patients violated the boundaries I had established by paging me on my personal pager (despite being given the on-call pager number and never being given my personal pager number), I googled myself just to see what else this patient might be able to find out about me. I found out that google had my home address listed as one of the first hits, but thankfully it was on a webpage that allowed me to request to have it removed. It sure would be nice if it were possible to protect your privacy nowadays when you have a profession such as ours.
 
So googled my name, and found a site listing my NPI number, my license number AND I CANNOT BELIEVE IT, MY HOME ADDRESS!!! How is this possible, and how do I get it removed?!?! Kinda freaked out!

Found out how: have to update my NPI profile and change the info at the NPPES database that automatically displays all this information. WTF.

NPI and license number are public information. Given your name and state, anyone of intelligence can look this up in 10 minutes.

Personal address if you own a home in your name is also public information. Given your name and region that you work, the appraisal district can give me your address, square footage of your home, etc. If you bought a non-custom home in a 1 builder neighborhood like Lennar does, knowledge of the sq. footage would also help provide me the exact layout of your home including where the bedrooms are located. This also provides the estimated worth of your home. Disturbing ain't it?

A non-psychotic patient could easily pull off all that I stated in an hour. In 2, they could be at your home knocking on your bedroom window. Your address on some other website really only saves me (anyone else) 10 minutes or so of Internet work

If you want more privacy, rent houses and obtain a P.O. Box and/or buy homes under a corporation name. It makes it more difficult to find your address when your home is owned by Toothless LLC and all your personal mail ends up at some P.O. Box. This isn't fool proof, but the attempting patient will give up or instead follow you home when simple Internet searches yield less data.
 
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NPI and license number are public information. Given your name and state, anyone of intelligence can look this up in 10 minutes.

Personal address if you own a home in your name is also public information. Given your name and region that you work, the appraisal district can give me your address, square footage of your home, etc. If you bought a non-custom home in a 1 builder neighborhood like Lennar does, knowledge of the sq. footage would also help provide me the exact layout of your home including where the bedrooms are located. This also provides the estimated worth of your home. Disturbing ain't it?

A non-psychotic patient could easily pull off all that I stated in an hour. In 2, they could be at your home knocking on your bedroom window. Your address on some other website really only saves me (anyone else) 10 minutes or so of Internet work

If you want more privacy, rent houses and obtain a P.O. Box and/or buy homes under a corporation name. It makes it more difficult to find your address when your home is owned by Toothless LLC and all your personal mail ends up at some P.O. Box. This isn't fool proof, but the attempting patient will give up or instead follow you home when simple Internet searches yield less data.

Yikes. Scary. Dont really care about the NPI or license, just the home address.
 
If you do own property, can you ask the city/county/township clerk to keep that info unlisted? That was my plan. I supposed I could put the deed/title in my husband's name but that seems kind of dumb since we have the same last name.
 
If you do own property, can you ask the city/county/township clerk to keep that info unlisted? That was my plan. I supposed I could put the deed/title in my husband's name but that seems kind of dumb since we have the same last name.

Maybe some counties would do this, but I doubt many. Everywhere in Texas I've been, land owners are public record. If it were a simple choice, no one would be listed. It's like your license number. Call up the government and ask them to delist it. They may just laugh.

It only costs a few hundred dollars to open an LLC. If you can fund the house through the LLC, patients would have to take records to the next level. If you have a common last name like Smith, using your husband would be fine. Some people use only their initials, so in a big city with a common last name again that would help.

I'm no attorney, but you might be able to start a simple family trust to purchase the home. You could choose any name you wish probably.
 
I don't understand why any of this crap (license numbers, NPI, land ownership, etc etc) ever became "public record" in the first place. What's the point?
 
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Yeah I have no sympathy for MDs who whine. Stalking's not cool, but overestimating's one's stalk-worthyness is even less cool.

We have a big wig psychotherapy attending at our program who annually gives a grand rounds kind of talk, and one of her favorite topics is "professionalism." (I am convinced this topic is the bailiwick of big wigs who have nothing else to talk about). One year the deal with her talk was the immense importance of not revealing too much of one's self on the internet because that could compromise one's therapeutic neutrality, and gasp, somehow interfere with transference. Basically the gist was: don't be on facebook or you'll get fried. A bunch of my classmates lined up like ducks to follow this sage advice.

So anyway I took her speech as a challenge, and 30 minutes later I knew the exact amount she paid in property taxes last year, the value and address of her home and second home, the name of her spouse, the year she was born, where she votes, and her political party (not always available but sometimes), and if I wanted more I'm sure I could find it. In this case, I felt I'd seen enough.

A whole heck of a lot of stuff is intentionally public information and unless you can sway Congress or your state legislature, good luck. Plus I doubt the public will line up on the side of doctors who want their assets concealed. Not even a Professionalism lecture will change that!
 
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Yeah I have no sympathy for MDs who whine. Stalking's not cool, but overestimating's one's stalk-worthyness is even less cool.

We have a big wig psychotherapy attending at our program who annually gives a grand rounds kind of talk, and one of her favorite topics is "professionalism." (I am convinced this topic is the bailiwick of big wigs who have nothing else to talk about). One year the deal with her talk was the immense importance of not revealing too much of one's self on the internet because that could compromise one's therapeutic neutrality, and gasp, somehow interfere with transference. Basically the gist was: don't be on facebook or you'll get fried. A bunch of my classmates lined up like ducks to follow this sage advice.

So anyway I took her speech as a challenge, and 30 minutes later I knew the exact amount she paid in property taxes last year, the value and address of her home and second home, the name of her spouse, the year she was born, where she votes, and her political party (not always available but sometimes), and if I wanted more I'm sure I could find it. In this case, I felt I'd seen enough.

A whole heck of a lot of stuff is intentionally public information and unless you can sway Congress or your state legislature, good luck. Plus I doubt the public will line up on the side of doctors who want their assets concealed. Not even a Professionalism lecture will change that!

If that was directed towards me in general or in specific, understand that I certainly wasn't whining, and I certainly don't consider myself particularly stalk-worthy fodder, however, I do not like that the possibility exists via my private home address being listed on that NPI page, (which was my fault I admit for not reading the disclosure stuff thoroughly and then putting two and two together) as even though the probability is low it does exist, and involves my family as well. I don't see anything wrong with having this concern.

Easy to fix though. Changed it today.
 
If that was directed towards me in general or in specific, understand that I certainly wasn't whining, and I certainly don't consider myself particularly stalk-worthy fodder, however, I do not like that the possibility exists via my private home address being listed on that NPI page, (which was my fault I admit for not reading the disclosure stuff thoroughly and then putting two and two together) as even though the probability is low it does exist, and involves my family as well. I don't see anything wrong with having this concern.

Easy to fix though. Changed it today.

Oh no, it wasn't directed towards you at all. I actually feel bad for you having that stuff online. I found my own information online but just gave up trying to change it. I had moved since anyway.

My comment was only directed at the question (which you happened to ask) about "why this crap is public record." OPD's link reminded me of the fact that some information is public by law, and beware to ye who implies that that process in some larger sense should be changed just for them. Like asking a county to take down its property tax records because they inconvenience psychiatrists? Heck they inconvenience a lot of people.

My point is, if you're going to live in a gated mansion or whatever, you can expect that your patients, much like your neighbors, will figure it out one way or another. And so will your residents.
 
Check address on your state medical board's site as well. I discovered my home address on there.
 
The government is run by attorneys. There is a field of law that involves asset and relative privacy protection. You do the math. Vested interest in having everything disclosed before you pay up.

Oh my bad. I thought the government was supposed to be run by the people for the people of the people, but maybe I had my governments wrong. FWIW I will pass this on to Abraham Lincoln so he can correct the Gettysburg Address.
 
If you have a common last name like Smith, using your husband would be fine. Some people use only their initials, so in a big city with a common last name again that would help.

I'm no attorney, but you might be able to start a simple family trust to purchase the home. You could choose any name you wish probably.

Marriage records are public info. So take your doc's name, go to your state medical board site, find their birth year, go to your county vital records site, put in their name and narrow by birth year, and viola you can find their spouse's name. Divorces are even easier to verify. Or faster yet, just type their name in whitepages.com and behold their whole family will appear. Granted John Smith will be harder to find.

In any case starting things under assumed names sounds like tax fraud...
 
Oh my bad. I thought the government was supposed to be run by the people for the people of the people, but maybe I had my governments wrong. FWIW I will pass this on to Abraham Lincoln so he can correct the Gettysburg Address.

As long as you consider attorneys "people", there is no inherent contradiction...
 
As long as you consider attorneys "people", there is no inherent contradiction...


On the spectrum of ethical standards, trust, usefulness, etc....psychiatrists and attorneys are viewed remarkably similar by society, so I'm not sure we as psychiatrists want to be poking jabs at attorneys.

(personally I don't have a negative opinion of attorneys)
 
On the spectrum of ethical standards, trust, usefulness, etc....psychiatrists and attorneys are viewed remarkably similar by society,
I'm honestly curious if you've ever given much thought to where this perseveration on how others view you and what you do comes from. I notice that you almost always reference what society thinks of you, what other programs think of you, what other specialty's think of you, etc. Maybe it's a cultural thing?

I think this tends to fade with time and the discovery is made that life is much more smooth sailing, satisfying, and productive when you realize you don't have to answer to society's expectations or views and can just be confident and proud of who you are and how you live.
 
I'm honestly curious if you've ever given much thought to where this perseveration on how others view you and what you do comes from.

I think this tends to fade with time and the discovery is made that life is much more smooth sailing, satisfying, and productive when you realize you don't have to answer to society's expectations or views and can just be confident and proud of who you are and how you live.

well...a few weeks ago I posted a gallop survery which should point towards exactly where it comes from. And lawyers and psychiatrists(and chiropractors btw) were basically all neck and neck with each other. So to answer your question it comes from data of sorts.

I just think it's silly for a group of psychiatrists to crack on lawyers. It is extremely likely that a group of lawyers on some forum are doing the same thing hopes of distancing themselves from the image of psychiatrists. The point was that we shouldnt throw stones at other fields wrt these sorts of things(image/integrity issues)....
 
well...a few weeks ago I posted a gallop survery which should point towards exactly where it comes from. And lawyers and psychiatrists(and chiropractors btw) were basically all neck and neck with each other. So to answer your question it comes from data of sorts.

I just think it's silly for a group of psychiatrists to crack on lawyers. It is extremely likely that a group of lawyers on some forum are doing the same thing hopes of distancing themselves from the image of psychiatrists. The point was that we shouldnt throw stones at other fields wrt these sorts of things(image/integrity issues)....

lol so if this is really how bad you are at interpreting data, its no wonder everyone always disagrees with you.

From the link you gave;

41% think very high or highly of psychiatrists, and only 11% low or very low

While for lawyers

19% think very high or highly of lawyers, and 38% low or very low.

In your own words "basically neck and neck", I'd hate to see how you try to interpret research that was above middle school math levels.
 
Oh no, it wasn't directed towards you at all. I actually feel bad for you having that stuff online. I found my own information online but just gave up trying to change it. I had moved since anyway.

My comment was only directed at the question (which you happened to ask) about "why this crap is public record." OPD's link reminded me of the fact that some information is public by law, and beware to ye who implies that that process in some larger sense should be changed just for them. Like asking a county to take down its property tax records because they inconvenience psychiatrists? Heck they inconvenience a lot of people.

My point is, if you're going to live in a gated mansion or whatever, you can expect that your patients, much like your neighbors, will figure it out one way or another. And so will your residents.

Ok. Sorry I usually don't presume things, but I guess I kinda read into your post.
 
well...a few weeks ago I posted a gallop survery which should point towards exactly where it comes from.

He asked "where this perseveration" comes from, not where the data comes from.
 
lol so if this is really how bad you are at interpreting data, its no wonder everyone always disagrees with you.

From the link you gave;

41% think very high or highly of psychiatrists, and only 11% low or very low

While for lawyers

19% think very high or highly of lawyers, and 38% low or very low.

In your own words "basically neck and neck", I'd hate to see how you try to interpret research that was above middle school math levels.
Yikes. Is this true? Jeeze, Vistaril, this really hurts credibility...

2x on one scale and 3.5x another scale is "neck and neck"? Some of your other claims that puzzled me are starting to become more clear...
 
Yikes. Is this true? Jeeze, Vistaril, this really hurts credibility...

2x on one scale and 3.5x another scale is "neck and neck"? Some of your other claims that puzzled me are starting to become more clear...

Don't doubt vistaril. He's a senior resident at a "Top Northeast Program". :naughty:
 
Hmph... I notice that lately he's backed away from that claim...

Given that I had already released some identifying information(year of training, what my fiance does, amg, etc) I wanted to preserve some degree of anonymity. Partly for myself(I dont really feel comfortable with full disclosure in a non anon setting) and partly because I've spoken about my fiance as well and I don't think it's fair to her. One way to do this is to pick a different type of program in a different region of the country that lacks specificity(ie there are 5-6 'top' programs in the ne and most have > 10 residents per year...which would have made it difficult to identify a resident in question had one suspected a particular program)....One could argue I should have changed the region and left out the 'top' disclaimer(which would be more accurate as I am not in a particularly competitive program), but this generally decreased the # of residents per class. And honestly, if one is trying to decieve/mislead for that purpose they wouldn't come at things as a psychiatry resident anyways. I'd be someone who did a residency in psychiatry and medicine for example:)

But back to the anon side of things- a lot of the advice and commentary from various posters on this forum(both residents and attendings) is without substance, bland, boring, and reads like a pr statement or a political campaign ad. I wonder how much of this is secondary to the nature of the forum and the different levels of disclosure of posters. Because of this one would hope the people here who do track locations of posts would allow me to preserve some degree of anonymity for those that don't. I think that leads to people feeling more comfortable speaking what's on their mind in forums like these.

but on this particular topic you guys are missing the point- it doesn't matter that psychiatrists do marginally better than lawyers in terms of public perception. It does matter than lawyers and psychiatrists are both pretty near the bottom of the list.
 
Given that I had already released some identifying information(year of training, what my fiance does, amg, etc) I wanted to preserve some degree of anonymity. Partly for myself(I dont really feel comfortable with full disclosure in a non anon setting) and partly because I've spoken about my fiance as well and I don't think it's fair to her. One way to do this is to pick a different type of program in a different region of the country that lacks specificity(ie there are 5-6 'top' programs in the ne and most have > 10 residents per year...which would have made it difficult to identify a resident in question had one suspected a particular program)....One could argue I should have changed the region and left out the 'top' disclaimer(which would be more accurate as I am not in a particularly competitive program), but this generally decreased the # of residents per class. And honestly, if one is trying to decieve/mislead for that purpose they wouldn't come at things as a psychiatry resident anyways. I'd be someone who did a residency in psychiatry and medicine for example:)

But back to the anon side of things- a lot of the advice and commentary from various posters on this forum(both residents and attendings) is without substance, bland, boring, and reads like a pr statement or a political campaign ad. I wonder how much of this is secondary to the nature of the forum and the different levels of disclosure of posters. Because of this one would hope the people here who do track locations of posts would allow me to preserve some degree of anonymity for those that don't. I think that leads to people feeling more comfortable speaking what's on their mind in forums like these.

but on this particular topic you guys are missing the point- it doesn't matter that psychiatrists do marginally better than lawyers in terms of public perception. It does matter than lawyers and psychiatrists are both pretty near the bottom of the list.


Does the fact that pretty much from day 1 the reputable posters on this forum were calling you out about this claim make you think that perhaps the way psychiatry is taught, practiced and perceived in your program in not representative of "psychiatry at its best"?

I mean pretty much from the very beginning people were like, "no way this guy goes to a top program", shouldn't the fact it was that blatantly obvious to people put some of your experiences in perspective?
 
Does the fact that pretty much from day 1 the reputable posters on this forum were calling you out about this claim make you think that perhaps the way psychiatry is taught, practiced and perceived in your program in not representative of "psychiatry at its best"?

I mean pretty much from the very beginning people were like, "no way this guy goes to a top program", shouldn't the fact it was that blatantly obvious to people put some of your experiences in perspective?

a few points:

-I went to school(and did 3 full rotations) at another program that is listed by many as one of the top 4-5 programs in it's region...so it's not like I am not familar with somewhat more competitive programs, or more research oriented programs, or larger programs. And in fact we have multiple people from this school(not just me) in the year before and after me that could have obviously stayed for residency. And I don't know any people(although they may exist...I actually havent checked) who are doing the reverse(going to this med school but that psych program).

-I did an elective at Duke(my gf at the the time now fiance was doing an allowed away during her medicine residency then there). I didn't think the day to day happenings of being a resident(at least in that month) were substantially different. I didn't think the didactics were much different. I didn't think the patients were much different. I am pretty positive that had I spent the last four years there instead of here I would have the same exact outlook(which imo is not a bad thing)....my gf at the time(who was ahead of me in training) happened to come here for medicine, and so that's where I ended up. I like it here fine.

-Additionally, I'm *not* speaking for other residents in my class. I suspect if you asked most of them they would have a different outlook on what psychiatry is and how they view it than me. Many/most of the people in this forum don't train(or arent attendings at) MGH, Columbia, UCSF and they do hold different views than me as well.
 
I'm honestly curious if you've ever given much thought to where this perseveration on how others view you and what you do comes from. I notice that you almost always reference what society thinks of you, what other programs think of you, what other specialty's think of you, etc. Maybe it's a cultural thing?

I think this tends to fade with time and the discovery is made that life is much more smooth sailing, satisfying, and productive when you realize you don't have to answer to society's expectations or views and can just be confident and proud of who you are and how you live.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

But actually you're wrong. Here are some people who "didn't answer" to "society's expectations" and ended up being punished for it:

Timothy McVeigh
The Unabomber
Jeffrey Dahmer

In fact society does judge people including you and all of us. Just take the KKK. Would you want to be "associated" with that organization knowing what "society" thinks of them? I highly doubt that you would. Nor would you want to be associated with Conrad Murray, Michael Jackson's doctor who is now in jail. This isn't some judgment free utopia we all live in. The medical profession too will be held to a standard, and that includes psychiatry. It makes sense that some of us, even if that doesn't include you, will care how we are perceived in the "society." It's hardly "a cultural thing."

I'm not saying we're thought of as serial killers but I'm just trying to make a point...

I'm embarrassed every time the NYT comes out with a story about the number of American 4 year olds on haldol and risperdal. It's shameful. I'm sorry but it is. There are reasons we're thought of poorly. Our country has a valid reputation for being litigious and thus lawyers are also thought of poorly. Some bad reputations are well earned. And those that are are worth being embarrassed about.
 
Just take the KKK. Would you want to be "associated" with that organization knowing what "society" thinks of them? I highly doubt that you would.
We may just look at life differently. I wouldn't want to be associated with the KKK because I don't like the way they think. I could care less what the public thinks of them.

I've belonged to organizations that many folks in different parts of this country would probably think of about as highly as the KKK. This doesn't affect my choice to pay dues.
 
I've belonged to organizations that many folks in different parts of this country would probably think of about as highly as the KKK. .

I seriously doubt this........and no, certain parts of the country don't view the ACLU/Greenpeace/NAACP/Sierra Club/whatever as anywhere close to the way the KKK is viewed if that is what you are hinting at.
 
We may just look at life differently. I wouldn't want to be associated with the KKK because I don't like the way they think. I could care less what the public thinks of them.

I've belonged to organizations that many folks in different parts of this country would probably think of about as highly as the KKK. This doesn't affect my choice to pay dues.

Ok fine, but that wasn't my point and you know it. I have no doubt that you stand on exceedingly high moral ground and would never be interested in the KKK (and neither would I). My point is, for you to say that you live outside the mores and judgments of society, in complete disregard for its opinion of you, in some kind of modern day moral Walden, is mere fantasy. If society deemed you a danger, if society thought you were too far out there, then society would act. Society simply finds you harmless. That's because you, like most people, are boring. It is not you who is not interested in what society thinks; rather, society is not intersted in what you think. So it's the reverse of what you posted above.

Proof that you live with great care for the thoughts of society is the fact that I'm SURE you turned in your medical license or residency permit forms promptly to your state medical board. Why do we have state medical boards? Because society is interested in making sure that unlicensed rogues do not go around practicing medicine. And I'm sure that you are interested in not even being thought of as a rogue, which is what would happen if you let that paperwork lapse. Mainly, I'm sure you just don't want to go to jail, like most of us.

There are few organizations that most people think of as lowly as the KKK. If you belong to one, then tell us what it is! I am curious!
 
I seriously doubt this........and no, certain parts of the country don't view the ACLU/Greenpeace/NAACP/Sierra Club/whatever as anywhere close to the way the KKK is viewed if that is what you are hinting at.

Nor do the Society for Creative Anachronisms, or the Trekkies, which are the two things that came to my mind.
 
My point is, for you to say that you live outside the mores and judgments of society, in complete disregard for its opinion of you, in some kind of modern day moral Walden, is mere fantasy.
It would be. Had I said or implied that. Yet I didn't.

My point, and only point, was that folks who are constantly obsessing over the prestige of their chosen career (or car or outfit or zip code) will likely find that life gets easier when they reach the point in their life that they don't care so much what everybody thinks of them. Most folks so reach that point. Many in their 30's, some in their 40's. I know a handful of folks who never reach it and fret over whether this advertising firm is as well thought of as that one (considering it more important than the work they'd do at each of them) or constantly name drop that they went to law school at Acme U or peek out their window at what the Joneses are driving this year. But most folks really do reach a point that they don't give much of a $hit. It's nice.

That's was all. Terrorists, serial killers, the KKK, overmedicated toddlers... that was all your extrapolations, nothing I said. You can keep swinging, but I'm not sure what you're boxing here.
 
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Given that I had already released some identifying information(year of training, what my fiance does, amg, etc) I wanted to preserve some degree of anonymity.
I do respect the fact that after many months you're admitting that you've been lying. But your explanation that it was all for the sake of anonymity lacks... truthiness.

If anonymity was your concern, you could have as easily said you went to a "state university program in the south" or a "community program in the midwest." By choosing to lie and say you attended a "top program in the northeast," you were implying you went to one of the best programs in the country.

And you used this lie to defend your position when many folks disagreed with your opinions. You did this when many of us were puzzled by your experiences as they were atypical for the level of training you were talking about.

take a lot of those average hrs/week with a grain of salt.....Im at a top psych program, and when I did the frieda thing it showed the avg hrs for 1st year residents on service to be in the high 50s....in reality, it was much less than that.

hehe....the medicine program here(Im in the northeast) is generally regarded as a top 10 program nationally.....the idea that they would need "in servicing" is ludicrous.

You name dropped your attending a top program in the northeast to justify your opinions of the sort of experiences you had during your training that ran counter to what many of us would expect. You would spontaneously mention your top NE program when it wasn't actually germaine to the conversation, done to polish your credibility. Admitting to the lie but framing it as being done for anonymity just makes it hard to believe future things you say.
but on this particular topic you guys are missing the point- it doesn't matter that psychiatrists do marginally better than lawyers in terms of public perception.
Ah, sweet irony. As Armadillos quoted from the actual study you referenced, and actually pointed out to you specifically, psychiatrists were twice as highly thought of and four times as many people had low or very low thoughts of lawyers vs. psychiatrists. You read this in the article you referenced but still use it to support that the perceptions are "neck and neck" or psychiatrists "marginally better." Even in your post where you finally admit that you'd been lying about your background, you end it with misleading statement of facts. Couldn't sum it up better.

Anyway, I won't beat a dead horse. Thanks for coming clean anyway.
 
And apologies for my contributions in completely derailing the thread.

You're right, toothless, it was weird finding out that the NPI stuff is public domain. Luckily our program coordinator gave us a heads up on that. I'm using my program's mailing address for anything medical, but I suppose I'll likely get a PO Box once I leave. Not sure how to handle the home ownership thing, but Texas Physician's idea is an interesting prospect.

I'd probably benefit from looking over one of those websites on how to keep yourself unsearchable, but I reckon it would likely just rachet up the anxiety but still below threshold for me actually doing anything about it.
 
Proof that you live with great care for the thoughts of society is the fact that I'm SURE you turned in your medical license or residency permit forms promptly to your state medical board.

Wanting to avoid jail (for practicing medicine without a license) is different than a concern for prestige or a concern about what society thinks about you.
 
Wanting to avoid jail (for practicing medicine without a license) is different than a concern for prestige or a concern about what society thinks about you.

I wasn't talking about prestige. Wanting to avoid jail is an extreme example of something that lies on a spectrum, the spectrum being where one lies in terms of cooperating with what society wants or thinks. In order to cooperate with society you have to "care" at some level. Some people care enough to live like normal citizens, and some people don't. Those who don't generally end up in jail or psychiatric inpatient units. Ok fine you could say that jail is a poor example of not caring about what society thinks--given that a person could want to avoid jail for many reasons, one of them being, for example, just not liking jail. But in any case I'd still say that for whatever reason NDY appears to have complied with society's expectations. I'd extrapolate from that that he probably has some care for what society thinks. I doubt he is a complete iconoclast.

The topic of what people think about psychiatrists doesn't only pertain to our prestige. If it did, I wouldn't mention a spectrum that has criminal behavior at one end. This discussion was never primarily about prestige.

Pediatrics has low "prestige" within medicine, but not nearly the disrepute that psychiatry does in some quarters. Often this topic devolves into being about prestige or $$$, but that's not always where it starts.
 
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It would be. Had I said or implied that. Yet I didn't.

My point, and only point, was that folks who are constantly obsessing over the prestige of their chosen career (or car or outfit or zip code) will likely find that life gets easier when they reach the point in their life that they don't care so much what everybody thinks of them. Most folks so reach that point. Many in their 30's, some in their 40's. I know a handful of folks who never reach it and fret over whether this advertising firm is as well thought of as that one (considering it more important than the work they'd do at each of them) or constantly name drop that they went to law school at Acme U or peek out their window at what the Joneses are driving this year. But most folks really do reach a point that they don't give much of a $hit. It's nice.

That's was all. Terrorists, serial killers, the KKK, overmedicated toddlers... that was all your extrapolations, nothing I said. You can keep swinging, but I'm not sure what you're boxing here.



My point was this: You used a fluffy cliche that we all mastered in middle school about "not caring what others think" to sanctimoniously attack Vistaril who made an intelligent response to OPD's funny retort to a retort I had made to another poster's comment earlier, and thus you ended what was an otherwise interesting train of discussion. If you wanted to engage Vistaril why didn't you do so using a real question, as opposed to a leading question that is all full of your own judgment?

I assume you are just another regular person who abides by the rules and does for the most part care what people think. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Maybe you wear Birkenstocks to work or maybe you don't but I truly doubt you are some huge iconoclast with horn piercings or whatnot and so anyway that's why I don't think you have the ground to stand on in attacking Vistaril like you did, and certainly not using phrases I last saw written in magic marker on my 9th grade geometry folder with "I love Chad" next to them encircled with big hearts.

I really felt from your post that you were trying to tell Vistaril what he ought to think.

Now in truth I actually agree with you--we should NOT choose our professions based on prestige or whatever you were getting at. But we should also not go around being sanctimonious-sounding.
 
Ah, sweet irony. As Armadillos quoted from the actual study you referenced, and actually pointed out to you specifically, psychiatrists were twice as highly thought of and four times as many people had low or very low thoughts of lawyers vs. psychiatrists. You read this in the article you referenced but still use it to support that the perceptions are "neck and neck" or psychiatrists "marginally better." Even in your post where you finally admit that you'd been lying about your background, you end it with misleading statement of facts. Couldn't sum it up better..

Without wanting to wade into a cesspool, I can sum it up better: three or four times zero isn't great.
 
My point, and only point, was that folks who are constantly obsessing over the prestige of their chosen career (or car or outfit or zip code) will likely find that life gets easier when they reach the point in their life that they don't care so much what everybody thinks of them. Most folks so reach that point. Many in their 30's, some in their 40's.

The only people I know who take that long to reach it are doctors. Most reach it by about age 16. The people who continue discussing it well on into their 30s and beyond are called psychiatrists. The only people who care into their forties and beyond are certain psychoanalysts.
 
The only people I know who take that long to reach it are doctors. Most reach it by about age 16. The people who continue discussing it well on into their 30s and beyond are called psychiatrists. The only people who care into their forties and beyond are certain psychoanalysts.

A lot of people are still obsessing in their college yrs, I think most reach it by 25 (about when the brain finishes development)
 
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