Surgery after Residency

[CutIt]

It appears to be oft-stated that "a surgical residency is not a surgical career" and that after residency you can "choose how much you want to work". In reality, how true is this statement? For example, could a neurosurgeon or orthopedic surgeon realistically be able to work with weekends off, and able to be home at a decent hour on workdays? (6 or 7 pm)? I've read on the American College of Surgeons website that the average gen surgeon works 50-60 hrs/week not counting call. Is that about average for surgeons of other specialties as well?

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[unregistered]

Ask yourself these questions:
Where do you want to work?
How much money do you want to make- ie would be satisfied making?

Easier (comfortable) lives are doable if you're willing to give up any combo of 1) big city life, 2) OR time, 3) money

If you're giving up OR time to just do clinic and refer to other surgeons, why bother going through so much training?

 

[CutIt]

thanks for the reply--I understand your point that if you want to be a Big Dog you're gonna have to put in the work, but could you be more specific? As in, if someone did not give up the things you mentioned, what kind of post-residency work are they looking at (hours/week)? Also does it vary significantly by specialty (neurosurgeon vs. general surgeon vs. ortho, etc)?

thanks

 

[Pilot Doc]

I've talked to several general surgeons who work 4 reasonable days a week and take call 1 weekend a month. They live in small towns and say they "don't make all that much money." Don't know if that means $80K or $200K.

The common theme I have found across specialties is that you have to avoid major trauma call, which usually means being in a small town hospital that handles no major trauma or at a big city hospital with a nearby level I center.

 

[CutIt]

if you're an academic general or neurosurgeon, with your staff of residents, do you still take much/any call?

 

[powermd]

Originally posted by CutIt
if you're an academic general or neurosurgeon, with your staff of residents, do you still take much/any call?

There is a neurosurgeon at Mount Sinai Hospital (Chicago), a medium-sized, inner-city hospital, who does two half day clinics per week, one elective OR day, and daily patient rounds. If he doesn't have clinic or OR, he comes in around 11am. He mainly takes trauma calls q2 with one other neurosurgeon. Sometimes he gets called and is up all night operating, other times not.

Not a bad lifestyle if you don't mind occasional all-night operations.

 

[bla_3x]

How about after residency, but still pre-partner? Do those who are vying for partnership get worked like crazy? Or, should I say, "should" be working like crazy to impress the group, etc.?

 

[OrthoFixation]

Check out the Ortho site:

http://www.orthogate.com/


I've read Ortho$$$:

50+ hrs/wk = $500k and up
40ish hrs/wk = $350k - $400k

both assume greater than 3 yrs experience post-res

I think those numbers came from charts on a physician employment agency.

I've also been told that high earners ($1M+) typically don't reveal their incomes due to fear of exposure.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Originally posted by CutIt
if you're an academic general or neurosurgeon, with your staff of residents, do you still take much/any call?

Of course. Despite having in and out of house residents to run the day to day (and day to night) business, an attending surgeon has to be on call every day and night for cases that come in, consults, etc. As noted below, the amount you have to do will vary with environment and the amount you actually are called throughout the night or have to come in will wildly vary as well.

I'm constantly amazed at how often the community general surgeons are called at night. Despite having residents, the nursing staff will often call the attendings for inane orders, at all hours, even with in-house residents. This almost never happens at my university program where the nurses are almost "afraid" to call the attendings. I understand attendings being called with ER hits or late night emergent consults but for med reorders, some pain or anti-emesis meds? Crazy.

 

[ArrogantSurgeon]

Originally posted by Kimberli Cox
This almost never happens at my university program where the nurses are almost "afraid" to call the attendings.

Making life a whole lot easier for said attendings.