Surgery: probation vs resignation now/end of the academic year

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smersh

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Hello all, I am currently a few months into my PGY2 year in a relatively competitive integrated surgical program. The reason to come to this point is poor evaluations 1s and 2s at best 2+ due to poor performance and communication. I have a tiny bit of time to decide whether I should take probation or resign at the end of the year. Program prefers that I resign at the end of the year. I have asked many people's opinions. Everyone says take probation off the table.

0) Probation now, off the table, I have spoken with multiple people who have gone through this process. PD advised against it.
1) Radiology, may get in 2020 and thereby having 1.5 years off; it is possible to get a PGY2 spot somewhere although it depends on the programs' availability and is challenging.
2) Ask for time off, 1 year 2019-2020, and get better elsewhere and give it a try 2020 at the same program. Downside is that they might say yes to year off and terminate me the first thing once I am back.
3) Ask to switch to general surgery to another program. Same performance issue may arise. However, I believe they are not impossible to overcome. It would be very painful to switch to general surgery.

Finish time would be similar for all 3 paths.
1) Radiology start 2020, possibly IR in 2025.
2) Lowest likelihood of success given that I have a poor reputation already and would be watched for the next few years.
3) 2024 and if program supports this move as they do not now. I would need to convince them. However, people who have been advising me have stated that program will change their mind if they know that you are leaving.

A) My order of things is ask for 3), if program does not support 3), then 2) is out, by default, just go to 1).
If they says 3) is possible, then 2) is also but it would be impossible to gauge.
I am not sure my thinking is correct. Some have said there is no way that they would support 3) at all.
B) If I go for 1), benefit vs. risks for resigning now vs. at the end of the year. Completed PGY2 doesn't get me anywhere in terms of any other specialty other than a general surgery program.

It has been really tough times. I may be overthinking this a lot. Thank you very much for your input in advance.

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Residents in this sort of trouble face potentially complex outcomes such as probation, remediation, transfer, termination, resignation, non-renewal. Equally complex is understanding them and navigating to the one that offers them the best outcome towards practice. What follows is equally complex information about these complex issues.

A few things I don't understand. Why are people recommending against probation? Why is your PD recommending against it?

I'm not an expert. My feeling is that they feel probation will get you nowhere. Fact is, if a program wants you gone, you will be gone (yes, before people point out how logistically difficult it may be). This probably explains why the PD recommends against it despite the fact that they are offering it.

Keep in mind, probation is not always a chance to remediate, it is most certainly one of the necessary steps on the pathway to termination. Sounds like that is what is on the table.

History of probation is a different sort of reportable Scarlet Letter on your chest (for those of you not familiar with Nathaniel Hawthorne's classic book of the same name, it is about a Puritan woman who must wear a fabric scarlet letter on her chest to display to all that look upon her that she has committed a sin in their eyes), than other pathways to your being pushed out. Probation --> successful remediation is one sort of Scarlet Letter, but a good outcome. Probation --> termination is to be avoided as it is one of the worst.

If you being pushed out is inevitable, it would be best to avoid the probation that gets you nowhere but will always be something you will have to report in the future.

Other pathways: termination (rare situations you have termination and not probation first), vs voluntary resignation mid-year or end of year, vs non-renewal. I don't know where non-renewal is in this. Just that if successful remediation of probation and continuing is not on the table, the voluntary resignation is the least damning.

Somewhere I discuss the pros/cons to your career and future licensing of probation/termination/resignation. If there is no pathway to stay via remediation, or help transferring/matching, resignation is always preferable. You will not be able to sue for wrongful termination or be reinstated if you resign, but as I said, fighting termination is off the table if the program takes the proper steps to get rid of you. Probation is useful if it carries with it the chance to improve and stay on. Resignation is the best way to leave a program (where transfer is not possible), but I would caution people to get an attorney (not to be adversarial or sue or even tell the program at all that you have consulted one), and research on SDN what resignation packages you can try to get that might poise you better than just signing on the dotted line without any negotiation.

Programs push for voluntary resignation vs termination for various reasons, one is legal liability, and another is that it is so much simpler for them from an admin standpoint. It carries the benefit of being less damaging to your future career as you report past issues with training. The benefit as well that they program may be willing to negotiate to obtain this resignation from you.

My feeling as well, is that if they are going to this trouble to send you away, that going elsewhere, even if you succeed, they will not take you back. If they wanted to remediate you, they would. It's possible that they do and can't/won't for whatever reasons, and that someone else (another program) doing it for them for a year, with you turning into a rockstar, that they might take you back (they did want you at one point, after all), but as I said, I think that's extremely unlikely.

How would you have time off yet be elsewhere getting better? I don't understand how you would use asked-for time off in this manner.

Transferring is a great option when resignation/termination are the only other options the program is holding out to you, YET they would support a transfer. It has much less stigma to your career or for licensing. It can often be spun to be amicable and not a statement of your abilities. The major downsides is that it can be difficult, you are already struggling, you will not have your pick of programs or even specialty, so it may not be a set up for success, but may be your best hope of continuing towards a graduation date.

However, it sounds like your program is not supporting a transfer to gen surg? Are they supporting a rads transfer? I would not transfer with the thought that you will be able to return. I would not transfer with the thought that you will not end up staying at that program and ending up in that field. There's stories of people going to another specialty and going back to their chosen one, but it's rare and likely depends a great deal on what specialty it is. For a subsurgical specialty, my feeling is that it's doubtful unless the gen surg residency poises you for it. Even then.

You will find it next to impossible to transfer without the support of your program. The other PD WILL want a LOR from your current one. If your program will not support to another PD the notion that you can transfer and succeed, it's not likely they will overlook this. This has happened in the past where programs have, but that is typically when they either know the resident well, or have reasons that they overlook negative opinions from the other program (malignant program reputation, extenuating factors). In your case, I wouldn't count on it.

If you were trying to get a PGY2 in rads, why would you have to take 1.5 years off? Couldn't you try to start this coming year?

I don't understand under what circumstances they would want you back, as you discuss in 3) if they know you are leaving they will want you back. Who? Do you mean that if you are able to negotiate a successful transfer, your program will change its mind? Doubtful.

It is generally accepted that you do what your program wants with finishing the year, before transferring to a new program. There are exceptions with mid-year transfer (where the program doesn't want to keep you, and the PD elsewhere can start you mid-cycle. Less likely because if the program doesn't even want you to finish the year....). If they want to keep you the rest of the year (I have no idea if they think it's OK for you to finish the year despite them not wanting to keep you in the program), then you stay. I won't belabor why this is the case and you are essentially stuck doing this if they want it.
Most of your described pathways don't make sense to me, so beyond sharing my thoughts in general surrounding the issues, that's it.

If you look through my post history and in this forum, I discuss in detail a lot of these issues, but beyond that, there is useful info from other posters in the same threads. Others will chime in here.

--Consult an attorney, silently. Ones that deal with employment law. Keep all records with your program, and date summaries of discussions you have with admin.

--Go to your program, and tell them that your #1 goal in life is to be a practicing attending physician. Period. You will do whatever it takes to make that a reality.

--You would prefer that be in your current specialty, and you would do anything to make that possible. Have you ran by them these different thoughts on what to do, and what might allow you to return to the program in the future?

--If you get the feeling just looking at their face that is a no go, then ask them, would they support a transfer to another program? In what specialty? Gen surg? Rads? Tell them you respect their opinion regarding your performance, and hope that there is something you can succeed in, and you would like to know if they have ideas on what that could be, and any help they could give you in obtaining a position elsewhere, be it through transfer or the Match.

--You cannot fight this or make the program help you in any way they do not want to help you. The best thing you can do, is come across like someone they want to help. Unless there's things you haven't mentioned, it's unlikely that they want to destroy your career and leave you unable to practice anything ever. (It's possible there are sour grapes that you aren't working out for them, still).

I have seen PDs take on a whole new complexion when the discussion changes focus from you staying/fighting, and more to what can be done to have you leave easily, quietly, finishing the year, and grateful for help salvaging your career. They may not take you up on finishing the year, but that is definitely a more ingratiating offer on your part.

Others on this forum know about transfer or bounce back where programs are quite unsupportive, going through the Match again, finding other positions, etc.
 
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Hello all, I am currently a few months into my PGY2 year in a relatively competitive integrated surgical program. The reason to come to this point is poor evaluations 1s and 2s at best 2+ due to poor performance and communication. I have a tiny bit of time to decide whether I should take probation or resign at the end of the year. Program prefers that I resign at the end of the year. I have asked many people's opinions. Everyone says take probation off the table.

0) Probation now, off the table, I have spoken with multiple people who have gone through this process. PD advised against it.
1) Radiology, may get in 2020 and thereby having 1.5 years off; it is possible to get a PGY2 spot somewhere although it depends on the programs' availability and is challenging.
2) Ask for time off, 1 year 2019-2020, and get better elsewhere and give it a try 2020 at the same program. Downside is that they might say yes to year off and terminate me the first thing once I am back.
3) Ask to switch to general surgery to another program. Same performance issue may arise. However, I believe they are not impossible to overcome. It would be very painful to switch to general surgery.

Finish time would be similar for all 3 paths.
1) Radiology start 2020, possibly IR in 2025.
2) Lowest likelihood of success given that I have a poor reputation already and would be watched for the next few years.
3) 2024 and if program supports this move as they do not now. I would need to convince them. However, people who have been advising me have stated that program will change their mind if they know that you are leaving.

A) My order of things is ask for 3), if program does not support 3), then 2) is out, by default, just go to 1).
If they says 3) is possible, then 2) is also but it would be impossible to gauge.
I am not sure my thinking is correct. Some have said there is no way that they would support 3) at all.
B) If I go for 1), benefit vs. risks for resigning now vs. at the end of the year. Completed PGY2 doesn't get me anywhere in terms of any other specialty other than a general surgery program.

It has been really tough times. I may be overthinking this a lot. Thank you very much for your input in advance.

I'm assuming that your PD does not feel that probation will help, because they think that you cannot be remediated.

I feel like switching into another specialty completely is probably your best bet, if your performance as a junior surgical resident is really that poor. But what issues did you have in surgery? I think that you need to be honest about that before deciding if you just need to switch to another, completely unrelated specialty, or if being a doctor is really your best option.
 
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A few things I don't understand. Why are people recommending against probation? Why is your PD recommending against it?

I'm not an expert. My feeling is that they feel probation will get you nowhere. Fact is, if a program wants you gone, you will be gone (yes, before people point out how logistically difficult it may be). This probably explains why the PD recommends against it despite the fact that they are offering it.

Keep in mind, probation is not always a chance to remediate, it is most certainly one of the necessary steps on the pathway to termination. Sounds like that is what is on the table.

History of probation is a different sort of reportable Scarlet Letter on your chest (for those of you not familiar with Nathaniel Hawthorne's classic book of the same name, it is about a Puritan woman who must wear a fabric scarlet letter on her chest to display to all that look upon her that she has committed a sin in their eyes), than other pathways to your being pushed out. Probation --> successful remediation is one sort of Scarlet Letter, but a good outcome. Probation --> termination is to be avoided as it is one of the worst.

Other pathways: termination (rare situations you have termination and not probation first), vs voluntary resignation mid-year or end of year, vs non-renewal. I don't know where non-renewal is in this. Just that if successful remediation of probation and continuing is not on the table, the voluntary resignation is the least damning.

Somewhere I discuss the pros/cons to your career and future licensing of probation/termination/resignation. If there is no pathway to stay via remediation, or help transferring/matching, resignation is always preferable. You will not be able to sue for wrongful termination or be reinstated if you resign, but as I said, fighting termination is off the table if the program takes the proper steps to get rid of you. Probation is useful if it carries with it the chance to improve and stay on. Resignation is the best way to leave a program (where transfer is not possible), but I would caution people to get an attorney (not to be adversarial or sue or even tell the program at all that you have consulted one), and research on SDN what resignation packages you can try to get that might poise you better than just signing on the dotted line without any negotiation.

Programs push for voluntary resignation vs termination for various reasons, one is legal liability, and another is that it is so much simpler for them from an admin standpoint. It carries the benefit of being less damaging to your future career as you report past issues with training. The benefit as well that they program may be willing to negotiate to obtain this resignation from you.

My feeling as well, is that if they are going to this trouble to send you away, that going elsewhere, even if you succeed, they will not take you back. If they wanted to remediate you, they would. It's possible that they do and can't/won't for whatever reasons, and that someone else (another program) doing it for them for a year, with you turning into a rockstar, that they might take you back (they did want you at one point, after all), but as I said, I think that's unlikely.

How would you have time off yet be elsewhere getting better? I don't understand how you would use asked-for time off in this manner.

Transferring is a great option when resignation/termination are the only other options the program is holding out to you, YET they would support a transfer. It has much less stigma to your career or for licensing. It can often be spun to be amicable and not a statement of your abilities. The major downsides is that it can be difficult, you are already struggling, you will not have your pick of programs or even specialty, so it may not be a set up for success, but may be your best hope of continuing towards a graduation date.

However, it sounds like your program is not supporting a transfer to gen surg? Are they supporting a rads transfer? I would not transfer with the thought that you will be able to return. I would not transfer with the thought that you will not end up staying at that program and ending up in that field. There's stories of people going to another specialty and going back to their chosen one, but it's rare and likely depends a great deal on what specialty it is. For a subsurgical specialty, my feeling is that it's doubtful unless the gen surg residency poises you for it. Even then.

You will find it next to impossible to transfer without the support of your program. The other PD WILL want a LOR from your current one. If your program will not support to another PD the notion that you can transfer and succeed, it's not likely they will overlook this. This has happened in the past where programs have, but that is typically when they either know the resident well, or have reasons that they overlook negative opinions from the other program (malignant program reputation, extenuating factors). In your case, I wouldn't count on it.

If you were trying to get a PGY2 in rads, why would you have to take 1.5 years off? Couldn't you try to start this coming year?

I don't understand under what circumstances they would want you back, as you discuss in 3) if they know you are leaving they will want you back. Who? Do you mean that if you are able to negotiate a successful transfer, your program will change its mind? Doubtful.

It is generally accepted that you do what your program wants with finishing the year, before transferring to a new program. There are exceptions with mid-year transfer (where the program doesn't want to keep you, and the PD elsewhere can start you mid-cycle. Less likely because if the program doesn't even want you to finish the year....). If they want to keep you the rest of the year (I have no idea if they think it's OK for you to finish the year despite them not wanting to keep you in the program), then you stay. I won't belabor why this is the case and you are essentially stuck doing this if they want it.

Most of your described pathways don't make sense to me, so beyond sharing my thoughts in general surrounding the issues, that's it.

If you look through my post history and in this forum, I discuss in detail a lot of these issues, but beyond that, there is useful info from other posters in the same threads. Others will chime in here.

To keep it simple, this is what I would do:

Consult an attorney, silently. Ones that deal with employment law. Keep all records with your program, and date summaries of discussions you have with admin.

Go to your program, and tell them that your #1 goal in life is to be a practicing attending physician. Period. You will do whatever it takes to make that a reality.

You would prefer that be in your current specialty, and you would do anything to make that possible. Have you ran by them these different thoughts on what to do, and what might allow you to return to the program in the future? If you get the feeling just looking at their face that is a no go, then ask them, would they support a transfer to another program? In what specialty? Gen surg? Rads? Tell them you respect their opinion regarding your performance, and hope that there is something you can succeed in, and you would like to know if they have ideas on what that could be, and any help they could give you in obtaining a position elsewhere, be it through transfer or the Match.

You cannot fight this or make the program help you in any way they do not want to help you. The best thing you can do, is come across like someone they want to help. Unless there's things you haven't mentioned, it's unlikely that they want to destroy your career and leave you unable to practice anything ever. (It's possible there are sour grapes that you aren't working out for them, still).

I have seen PDs take on a whole new complexion when the discussion changes focus from you staying/fighting, and more to what can be done to have you leave easily, quietly, finishing the year, and grateful for help salvaging your career. They may not take you up on finishing the year, but that is definitely a more ingratiating offer on your part.

Others on this forum know about transfer or bounce back where programs are quite unsupportive, going through the Match again, finding other positions, etc.
24 paragraphs
1495 words
If this were a high school essay, double spaced with standard font/margins, it would be 6 printed pages long. I don't know if this is an SDN record, but it has to be close.
 
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Do you need to be a surgeon?

Do you think their feedback is valid?

You won’t be able to leave and return. The only way to stay is to make it through probation. That’s a high risk strategy.
 
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24 paragraphs
1495 words
If this were a high school essay, double spaced with standard font/margins, it would be 6 printed pages long. I don't know if this is an SDN record, but it has to be close.

Typical Crayola post. I actually don't think it's the longest one he/she's written.
 
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Probation is a time limited period where you have to improve your performance. Supportive programs will consider adding some sort of additional help / mentoring / education / schedule to help you be successful. But this isn't required -- they can leave everything the same, say you have 1-2 months to get up to expected level, and if not then terminate you. So, if you're considering the probation, the main question is "are you realistically going to get better in a short timeframe, usually no more than 3 months?". Since you haven't mentioned here what the problem is, it's impossible to give you advice.

As mentioned, if you offer to resign you should ask, before resigning, what your final evaluation will say. Will it say that you completed 2 years and left? Or will it say that you ran into XYZ problems? You can sometimes negotiate for this.

No one is giving you a year off and then taking you back. There are all sorts of scheduling problems that creates (an extra resident in one year), and how exactly would a year off actually make your performance any better?

Transferring to another program in the same specialty is almost certainly impossible. You're failing out of this program. This is presumably a competitive surgical subspecialty. You're no longer competitive.

Tranferring to GS is a possibility IF AND ONLY IF your problems are specific to your field and not an issue for GS. So, if you're in Vascular and your problem is using those funky magnifying lenses they use, but otherwise you're fine, and this wouldn't be an issue in GS -- then it's possible. If your problem is being a klutz in the OR, or scoring poorly on the ITE, or professionalism problems, or communication problems (which you hinted at), then it's very unlikely.

Transferring to rads might be an option if your PD feels your skills would fit well with rads. Since rads is so different from surgery, this might be an option.

Your post is difficult to follow. If this is what your notes / communication with others looks like, it's part of the problem.
 
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Thank you all for your kind feedback, especially Crayola.
I agree with everything.

Just to clarify some questions you all had.
1. Probation is highly risky, agree with PD that I would fail. Multiple people unrelated to this situation is acutely aware and has informed that it is NOT rehabilitation rather than a process to record the errors to justify termination. There is no path to success here. One year would to be "practice" somewhere else. I am unsure whether it will make a rockstar out of my poor performance but its more likely than taking a probation now. However, agree granting that would be extremely unlikely and coming back like a rockstar would also be extremely unlikely.
2. Agree unlikely to obtain program's support for GS. However, I "heard" from people that is negotiable and depends on the receiving program as well. Disagree that I cannot improve but agree that unlikely to be granted this. Unsure that I will unlikely to be competitive YEARS down the line for fellowship. I can at least ask for this still. I believe.
3. With regard to the following "If they want to keep you the rest of the year (I have no idea if they think it's OK for you to finish the year despite them not wanting to keep you in the program), then you stay," I think it is for coverage for the rest of the year. I am functional, but poorly. For example, if I were in a neurology program (where I know someone who tried probation and failed), they probably prefer that I resigned now.

Q1: I am gathering from everyone that I am basically to do what the program prefers to stay a physician over my hope to be a surgeon. If it is to go to radiology, what is negotiable when we meet again? The types of remarks for the next residency? Time to take off for interviews? What exactly is a "resignation package"?
Q2: Can I assume that there is no benefit for me to resign now vs. end of the year from a career perspective? Just do what the PD prefers (which is to finish until the end of the year)?
 
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Q1. You can try to make it through but you probably won’t.
Q2. Finishing a year in good standing helps create the story that “you decided that surgery wasn’t for you” versus quit in place of getting fired

You need to let go of this plan to leave for a year and return. That’s not happening
 
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Can you expand on what you meant in Q1..you can try to make it through but probably won't.
I was asking about what to negotiate. I can't think of anything other than what Crayola said.

Q2. The idea is to apply to radiology now in this cycle. It's late but not too late. Everyone reading my application would know that I can quiting.
 
You stated that you still hoped to be a surgeon. That was what I answered. The only thing to negotiate is what your PD will write about you.
 
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I would say that you could "technically" try to make it through probation - it has been offered to you as an option - but the chances you make it through are so slim, it just isn't going to happen. You're better off now taking a pathway that might avoid probation, which will essentially mar your physician employment history forever while offering you no chance of benefit.

(it depends, not all probation is reported by your program to your medical board, is what I've read here. I feel I've seen more situations where it was. I don't know what governing body makes the rules on this - if it is specialty dependent, program dependent, GME, ACGME, or medical board that has requirements about when probation is reported vs when it can stay a within-the-institution process. If this is just part of a process to secure a tight termination on you, then I highly suspect it will be reported, but I'm speculating there. Siccing the medical board on you, is a multistep process that is DEFINITELY one strategy for forcing a resignation or termination.)

(and when I say mar, probation isn't career ending by any means, or typically even a big barrier to licensing/credentialing/obtaining positions depending on context, but it is something that is reported/shared when you apply for much of these things, and it can add extra steps as it can prompt more questions and investigating into circumstances.)

So, probation does nothing good for you unless it is a path to staying with your program.

It is not a path to staying with your program, because the PD basically came out and said so, when they recommended against it. Why? Probably because of all of the above, they know this.

A PD once told me this, using their hands for effect:

strugging resident.png


Even if during your probation you improve, your rate of improvement of performance, which all residents have as they grow towards the necessary performance for the end of the year, even if it comes up to match that of your peers, may still leave you at the end of the year below what is needed for you to continue to PGY(X+1). There is of course a range of performances that are acceptable, some residents are rockstars and some are just barely good enough. But everyone has to be in that range.

Many struggling residents, and it depends on the nature of the struggle, can improve their rate of improvement during their probation, especially with attention and effort from without. But often that rate still doesn't approximate that of their peers, and the net effect is to still fall behind. You need to get your rate of improvement either higher than your peers to play catch up, or whatever you get it to, must be enough to get into "minimally acceptable" even if you still comparatively are weak.

Mostly what the program cares about is how safely you can be trained during the year, how does that impact patient care and the training of your peers, and can they get you ready for promotion. If they don't think they can pull it off, they can't remediate more months at the end of the year or have you repeat, then they will likely terminate you after probation, or they might not renew at the end of the year.

The fact the PD doesn't want you to do probation, as well as others, basically tells me that they think you will be where the above graph shows.

The above graph demonstrates why earnest probation intervention is started as early as possible. I won't get into the numbers game of why it is that by around Oct that is where PDs get really serious about lining people up for the ax as well. Basically, now really is the time for them to figure out what they're going to do about residents they do see getting where they want when they want.

Lastly, the other factor that makes successful probation difficult, has to do with perception. I don't know to what degree all of this relates to your actual weaknesses, and what part of this is how others are perceiving your performance. There is always some degree of the latter at work, no matter how bad or good the resident actually is.

Coming back around, taking the probation is risky because:
1) What are the chances that you improve to that of your peers at minimum, or even higher?
2) What are the chances that you are able to convince everyone around you of this?
3) What are the chances when the program director has basically come out and said that their current opinion as of now, is that with your performance, it's not even worth the try, that they will change their opinion? Especially when they are indicating they don't think you should be a surgeon at all??
4) What are the chances you can convince enough of the people evaluating you, to change their opinion?

Basically, the chances that you can actually improve enough to change all this, or that having done so everyone will do a 180 opinion on you, within 2-3 months, is so low, that all probation will do is help them checkbox a termination on you, leaving you will ZERO options. As of now, you have some options.

OK, just reread your OP. The program is actually trying to help you. They are giving you the pathway to complete the year and voluntarily resign. This is the least damaging to your career on paper.

They are essentially giving you the option of "go by "choice" quietly and with no recourses annoying to the program like appeal, suing, etc, or go through probation which will leave a more damaging paper trail, and you still end up gone.

It could be taken as a sign you want to fight this, and you can't.

Even if you agree to resign at the end of the year, I don't know that it means that if by some hope and a prayer you are able to 180 this, that they couldn't put renewal back on the table. But you are being told not to plan for that.

I would go to the program and essentially throw myself at their feet. Say that you are open to resigning, but you are committed 100% to being a clinician in any field they would be willing to support you in, your preference being GS or rads, but you are open to others. How can you earn the best reference possible to continue your clinical career? Where can they see you succeeding and be willing to support you? Make it clear that no matter what happens, you are committed to being the best possible resident for the rest of your time there, and you are sorry that your performance has not been better, and that no matter what you will stay committed to improvement.

People don't realize, how much your conduct AFTER getting in trouble or being totally on your way out of a program, matters. Just because it's not going the way you hoped, doesn't mean that hard work and good opinions cannot be obtained and poise you for a comeback in your career elsewhere. In fact, hardwork and grace under such conditions can earn you the respect and help you need to go on elsewhere.

I think you need to forget about any plan that your program does not support, unless you think they are malicious AND you think you can try to get a transfer somewhere on your own, which is unlikely and might make a decent situation where they help you for next year, go bad. If transfer is out, and it likely is, then you need to dedicate your life to getting another position somewhere for next year. Which means dedicating yourself to getting help from your program.

Any attendings on your side that might have a good word for you to another program? Having nice LORs from them and even a lukewarm (not damning one) from your PD can help make another position a reality. Network with those attendings and anyone that supported you in med school. Friends at other programs.

There is a delicate way to say that with the help of your program to obtain another position they think is appropriate for you, you feel more comfortable voluntarily resigning and seeing through the year to the best of your ability. As aPD said, you can try to feel out what positives and negatives they might speak to in an LOR to another program, so you can continue to improve on that and be better poised to succeed.

Some might think this is riskier, but you could ask that you be able to see what such a letter would look like before signing your resignation letter. This might be a better move to do after agreeing to a resignation but before signing. At that point they may be feeling more generous in that last little push to getting that signature. This may be the point to have an employment attorney help you behind the scenes, or once you get there, in looking over the resignation paperwork and the negotiation about the letter. Sometimes both sides sign an NDA (non-disclosure agreement) about how all of this went down, beyond what is negotiated to be acceptable to say to a 3rd party.

This gets into pro/cons of how much to control the fallout and separation of a resident from their program.

I know that some residents go down this pathway, and piss off their programs and possibly make things worse. Other times, things can go more smoothly and less impersonally for everyone, while allowing the resident some degree of image control as they cooperate with a program. Other times, people rely on the "good word" to their face from their program, only to be sabotaged later as there was no binding agreement.

Yes, this can be done, that is fact. However, I can't say if it is a good idea in this case or not.
 
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I would accept the offer to plan a resignation at the end of the year. Ask politely for their communication in the future to say you resigned in good standing as opposed to forced to quit.

Then work even harder and be even more nice for the rest of the year. Don’t talk crap to literally anyone about the process and express nothing but how grateful you are for the chance you had there. It will effect how you are treated if you burn bridges
 
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Again, thank you for your input, which sounds very sensible. However, to execute the paragraph wherein i would ask what letter would look like before signing your resignation letter seems very tricky. I think that is hard to pull off.

This is going to sound like beating a dead horse. But please consider that there is one more possibility- that for some reason I won't reveal here, I might be given more time and not probation at this moment.
If that is the case, would you still ask to go to another specialty and resign at their will as if there is no real extra time?
Reasons for this option is think that I can improve d/t extenuating circumstances.
Reasons against it is that likelihood to have dramatic improvement is low, and I have a reputation and a deep hole to dig myself out of. In addition, this "extra time" would actually prevent me from applying this year and LOSE even another year.

Therefore, even if probation is off the table, I am contemplating resigning anyway given that we are passed the pt of no return.
I just want to make sure everybody agrees. Hypothetically if probation is taken off the table for a moment for reevaluation, what would you do?
 
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Again, thank you for your input, which sounds very sensible. However, to execute the paragraph wherein i would ask what letter would look like before signing your resignation letter seems very tricky. I think that is hard to pull off.

This is going to sound like beating a dead horse. But please consider that there is one more possibility- that for some reason I won't reveal here, I might be given more time and not probation at this moment.
If that is the case, would you still ask to go to another specialty and resign at their will as if there is no real extra time?
Reasons for this option is think that I can improve d/t extenuating circumstances.
Reasons against it is that likelihood to have dramatic improvement is low, and I have a reputation and a deep hole to dig myself out of. In addition, this "extra time" would actually prevent me from applying this year and LOSE even another year.

Therefore, even if probation is off the table, I am contemplating resigning anyway given that we are passed the pt of no return.
I just want to make sure everybody agrees. Hypothetically if probation is taken off the table for a moment for reevaluation, what would you do?

Do you want to be a surgeon? If so and you haven't been put on probation, why resign?
 
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Do you want to be a surgeon? If so and you haven't been put on probation, why resign?

yes but as with all those stated above, its an inevitability at this pt, just a matter of time even I am not put on probation for a few months.
I agree with everything ppl said above..if they do give me more time and no probation, i need a new meeting and in it, anything short of hey lets work on this and help you get through residency is an indication that their stance remains the same. this is almost certainly going to be the case. i need to abort right away even if they give me more time and do what Crayola has thoroughly delineated.
 
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yes but as with all those stated above, its an inevitability at this pt, just a matter of time even I am not put on probation for a few months.
I agree with everything ppl said above..if they do give me more time and no probation, i need a new meeting and in it, anything short of hey lets work on this and help you get through residency is an indication that their stance remains the same. this is almost certainly going to be the case. i need to abort right away even if they give me more time and do what Crayola has thoroughly delineated.

If they aren't putting you on probation, you should do everything in your power to make the improvement to stay. If that is what you want.

You have a spot now. Who knows about the future.
 
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I'm not recommending you throw in the towel now with a resignation mid-year, just to be clear.

I'm recommending that you do your best to stay without doing things your program recommends against, like probation. If the probation offer is sincere, do it. If the PD of all people says don't, then don't.

If they want an end of year resignation, that is the better resignation than mid-year. The issue is how to separate from this program in the manner they wish (because if they wish it IT WILL happen, assuming you don't change their minds (unlikely)), and poise yourself for the next step.
 
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Again, thank you for your input, which sounds very sensible. However, to execute the paragraph wherein i would ask what letter would look like before signing your resignation letter seems very tricky. I think that is hard to pull off.

This is going to sound like beating a dead horse. But please consider that there is one more possibility- that for some reason I won't reveal here, I might be given more time and not probation at this moment.
If that is the case, would you still ask to go to another specialty and resign at their will as if there is no real extra time?
Reasons for this option is think that I can improve d/t extenuating circumstances.
Reasons against it is that likelihood to have dramatic improvement is low, and I have a reputation and a deep hole to dig myself out of. In addition, this "extra time" would actually prevent me from applying this year and LOSE even another year.

Therefore, even if probation is off the table, I am contemplating resigning anyway given that we are passed the pt of no return.
I just want to make sure everybody agrees. Hypothetically if probation is taken off the table for a moment for reevaluation, what would you do?

I get not wanting to identify yourself, but I think it's difficult to advise you on which path when I'm not sure I actually understand the very options potentially available to you. Would you like to take this to PM? I take confidentiality in these matters quite seriously.

It's not clear to me how finishing this year would cause you not to be able to be on time in getting another position to start right after this year.

Is it possibly that they would extend the year into partway through next year, and then reconsider you, possibly letting you go too late to get another position elsewhere? That would make sense as far as why sticking it out might bone you on a year if then they decide not to continue your training.

Or are you saying that they want to work you in such a way now that you would not be able to participate in the Match for advanced positions for the coming year?

What I would do:
-Don't do probation that your PD recommends against.
-However, I would still work as hard as though you were on probation. I would do my best, because your best is all you can do to salvage things no matter which way this all goes.
-If you are offered probation and it seems that it is sincere to help you stay, then you can ask what sort of remediation plan they will help you with. +/- a solid remediation plan is one way to gauge the sincerity of the offered probation. Some remediation plans are basically non-existent and others are OK.
-Whatever the program is proposing you do, ask them what they think are the chances that you might succeed and stay, or earn support for another position if it doesn't work out.
-It's OK to bring up the fact that if you do go in this direction, and it doesn't work out, you'll be losing a year working towards a graduation date in another field. Ask them what they think is the best thing you can do to work towards graduation, here preferably, or elsewhere if that's what it comes down to.
-Make it clear that you want to be a clinician and will do what it takes. How can they help you? Is it best you finish the year and resign, will you have support to go elsewhere? Is it best you do whatever this secret option is you're not telling us?

They may put it back on you saying they don't know what the chances are, you can stay, take your chances that it doesn't go well and you lose that year, or you can either throw in the towel when they say (sounds like end of year was offered to you), or you can back out now and pursue another position. They could basically say pick one, we make no promises. However, you should be able to get a feel for what they actually want out of this, and what they are willing to do for you.

If it were me, I would actually do whatever they want provided it meant you got to finish this year and got credit, and end on a voluntary resignation with support to another position. If that means you lose next year, that might just be the cost of not having probation on your record, the PGY2 credit for whatever it's worth, your program's support elsewhere, and having done the "honorable" thing in finishing the year (finishing vs not finishing makes a big difference on paper when you look for another spot), and having a voluntary resignation that coincides with a finished year.

I say this because probation they don't want to give you offers more harm than good, when not taking probation hardly creates a scenario where you can't try to get up to standard. I say this because resigning now might seem like a way to save you time and get into somewhere else, but it does 3 things: not only robs you of the chance to turn this around in any way, which may be negligible, it can also totally piss off your program by leaving them short now when they want you to continue for the moment at least, and remember you need their support, and it can also make you look really bad to any other program. The only "acceptable" reason for a mid-year resignation, which is still damning itself, is for things not strictly related to performance, things like personal or family health.

Your program's support to another program is worth the sacrifice of a year. Trying to save that year, could cost you everything.
 
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