Surgical Loupes recommendations? DFV/Oracoscoptic/ExamVision/Zeiss/Surgitel/others?

Medstart108

7+ Year Member
Mar 24, 2012
2,174
449
Status (Visible)
  1. Resident [Any Field]
I'm a cardiothoracic resident looking into a new pair of loupes. I currently have DFV 2.5s TTL EFs but I want to upgrade the zoom so that I can do distals coronaries. While i've been relatively happy with the customer service, I've found that DFV loupes are fickle, the optimal clarity of vision only happens when loupe is positioned in a certain way on my face and I was surprised when I tried surgitel how large and clear the field of view is. I haven't had the chance to meet with the reps from other manufacturers yet.

However, i'm still debating whether or not I want to use 3.5s or 4.5s and for that reason I've also considered adjustable loupes like the Eyezoom Oracoscoptic or Examvision Kepler Advanced. Does anyone have any experience with those? If I do choose DFV, does anyone know the differences between the Panoramic vs Expanded Field scopes?

I'm also in the market for a LED headlight, does anyone have recommendations for a light manufacturer? Ideally something that has a wide light and is long lasting.
 

the negative 1

Bovie to "war crimes" please
15+ Year Member
Aug 14, 2004
1,182
159
Charm City
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
I have the DFV microEF 3.5s and have been pretty happy with them. Wore them all through fellowship and use them when I'm doing open thoracic cases now. The DFV panoramics are new and I'd be curious to know how much weight they add to the frame and the perceived benefit of an additional 3.5 cm diameter field. Also what the extra cost is.

Go with what works for you. I know folks who swear by their Surgitel loupes and it seems like you thought the optics were better.
 
Feb 27, 2005
3,174
3,924
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
I love my Surgitel 3.5x. I’m Vascular and do a fair amount of distal tibial and pedal bypasses. The attachable headlight is great for these cases as well. I actually prefer to still use my 2.5x surgitels from residency for aortic cases, as I find the extra distance for the RP approach I use lends itself to some issues with focal length when using the 3.5x. Also the headlight is not strong enough for the RP cases in my opinion.
I have never used anything other than surgitel, so I can’t compare to anything else.

I will say that DFV maybe has a bit better customer service that Surgitel. My loupes broke in fellowship and I had to send them in for repair and it took almost 2.5 months to get them back and it wasn’t inexpensive even though the loupes were only 18 months old. One of my cofellows sent his DFV in and it only took a couple weeks and it was pretty cheap. That is entirely anecdotal experience however.
 
About the Ads

bottombracket

10+ Year Member
Feb 17, 2009
16
6
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
Lord, here I go again...I only visit here about once a year and I swear I only seem to comment on loupes threads.

I rocked Surgical Acuity (now Orascoptic) 4.3x loupes (plastics/hand/microsurgery) for the past decade or so. Last month my loupes were stolen. I wanted to replace them with the same pair, but Orascoptic has moved on to a new design. I upgraded to their new 4.5's and HOLY [email protected] are they good. They are so bright, and the optical clarity is just outstanding. I was literally shocked at how much better these are than my old loupes. I would urge you to try a pair on, even if you look at the 3.5's.

I have worn 4.x loupes daily for everything, including flap dissection, micro, skin closure...everything. It is not too much magnification. The field of view is not too small. I have their ti frames and they are stiff and easy to locate the loupes on your face to keep things in focus (the 4.3 SA's I had were very, very touchy and you had to align them perfectly to keep things in focus).

I dig these things like a ditch. Take a good look at Orascoptic before buying others.
 

310prolene

5+ Year Member
May 13, 2015
36
28
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
Lord, here I go again...I only visit here about once a year and I swear I only seem to comment on loupes threads.

I rocked Surgical Acuity (now Orascoptic) 4.3x loupes (plastics/hand/microsurgery) for the past decade or so. Last month my loupes were stolen. I wanted to replace them with the same pair, but Orascoptic has moved on to a new design. I upgraded to their new 4.5's and HOLY [email protected] are they good. They are so bright, and the optical clarity is just outstanding. I was literally shocked at how much better these are than my old loupes. I would urge you to try a pair on, even if you look at the 3.5's.

I have worn 4.x loupes daily for everything, including flap dissection, micro, skin closure...everything. It is not too much magnification. The field of view is not too small. I have their ti frames and they are stiff and easy to locate the loupes on your face to keep things in focus (the 4.3 SA's I had were very, very touchy and you had to align them perfectly to keep things in focus).

I dig these things like a ditch. Take a good look at Orascoptic before buying others.
I second the vote for orascoptic. I have 3.5s and 2.5s. Use them daily for hand, microsurgery, and aesthetic surgery. Love them. Light weight, wide field, good depth. The few times I’ve had to deal with customer service, it has been easy.
 

Jolie South

is invoking Domo. . .
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Jun 4, 2007
11,616
831
Deep in the Heart of Texas
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
I have found the opposite to be true between Surgitel and Designs for vision. I love my DFV. I have had great customer service. I love the clarity of the loupes.

I also have a pair of Surgitel loupes. Same prescription. Both 2.5s. The loupes are aligned correctly but there some kind of weird curvature to them that gives me vertigo if I look around to quickly. I also find them less comfortable and the actual clarity way inferior to DVF. I have them in my car in case I forget my good loupes at one hospital. But honestly, I would almost rather not wear loupes than wear those.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

TypeADissection

5+ Year Member
Jan 23, 2016
589
2,117
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
I have only used DFV and have both the 2.5x and 3.5x. Using the 2.5x probably 90% of the time and only bust out the 3.5x when doing distal tibial work and the handful of pediatric bypasses I've done for traumas and whatnot. The 2.5x as you already know are great workhorses that'll allow you to do almost everything. The 3.5x I have found to be fickle on my face mostly bc I don't have a great nose bridge for them. So I had to make some adjustments and add some padding otherwise I can't see through the loupes to do what I need to do. Haven't tried anything else and was looking into trying the Univets but then COVID happened and I forgot about them.
 
Dec 15, 2019
18
9
Status (Visible)
  1. Resident [Any Field]
I have both DFV 2.5x and 3.5x EF. I have not tried any other loupe manufacturer. I wear the 3.5x EF most of the time because I extended the working distance on them. The field of view is almost the same between the 2.5x and 3.5x EF.

I like the 3.5x EF for a few reasons but there are some drawbacks. The zoom is better, but the eyepieces are wide and thus basically fill your entire line of sight. Meaning it is difficult to ever use the non-telescope portion of the lens. The loupes obstruct your view much more than the 2.5x. Additionally, the telescopes do not let as much light through. I often cannot do cases without a headlight with the 3.5x that I could do with the 2.5x.

I think for cardiac surgery, 2.5x are fine for most people. I do find that the distals look huge with the 3.5x, but I have personally never found the "seeing" part to be the difficult part. It's usually more the sewing part.

Lastly, the loupes are heavy and do not stay on your face. Mine do not rest on my nose, they basically stay in place because they're strapped tightly to my face.
 

Mr Cookie Pants

Hopefully on bypass
10+ Year Member
Jun 4, 2008
176
17
The OR
Status (Visible)
  1. Fellow [Any Field]
Hi, sporadic logger onner here. Finishing CT Fellowship this week.

I have DFV 2.5 EF on a Nike Frame - super comfortable, can wear for 30 hours straight without neck and eye fatigue. I wore them in GS for all Vascular and H&N cases, now I wear them for valves, aorta and open thoracic. Theyre so comfortable, sometimes I just wear them as eye protection.

I have DFV 3.5 EF on Yeoman (buddy holly). Very classic. I dont like them much as I find them to be heavy and uncomfortable on the nasal bridge. I wear them for coronaries and congenital. They're great.

An attending got Surgitels 3.5 and they're unreal. I will be getting those as an attending. Hes 6'4 and stands up taller than I do at 5'10. lighter, wider field and more comfortable.

Long story short, you need 3.5s for CT surgery. For vision - as youre learning distals and your sub milimeter precision. And your attendings will wonder why you dont have them. I had to do a couple CABG with 2.5s while my 3.5 were getting adjusted for depth of field and it was doable but I didnt like it.
 

Medstart108

7+ Year Member
Mar 24, 2012
2,174
449
Status (Visible)
  1. Resident [Any Field]
Update, i ended up getting surgitel's 3.5x's, will update when I get to try them, thanks for the advice!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

winkyeye

5+ Year Member
Nov 9, 2015
1
0
Can anyone in cardiac surgery speak to how often they use 2.5x vs 3.5x? I have a pair of 2.5x DFV Yeoman loupes but don't like the fit and feel that the clarity is a bit off. I was looking at the Orascoptic EyeZoom Mini and wondering if those would be worthwhile to get so that I can have 2.5x and 3.5x with the same pair. The alternatives I have have been looking at are the DFV 3.5x Panoramic loupes which I am told only comes with the Yeoman frame and the Orascoptic HLD 3.5x.

I tried the DFV 3.5x Panoramic and EF loupes and thought things looked clearer on the EF than Panoramic but I am not sure if that is just because of the specific test samples.
 
Jun 11, 2013
10,813
25,901
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
I went through CT training with only 2.5x and I did fine with it. 3.5x would probably have been nice, but there wasn't anything that I felt I couldn't see. Then again I did a bunch of things during general surgery without anything that I did fine but I had multiple people remark that they were surprised I could see it.
 
Dec 27, 2018
8
1
oculoplastics- just giving a shout out to my Surgitel 2.5x. In love, especially with the light titanium frame and the bomb a** headlight (though expensive).
 

Dr.LeoSpaceman

Senior Member, f/k/a FaytlND
15+ Year Member
Jun 15, 2004
1,185
1,097
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
bomb a** headlight (though expensive)

Slight hijack/tangent: What would everyone say is the "best" wireless headlight? Brightness is more important than battery life (to me). I have DFV loupes, but open to change. I'd honestly like to find a light I can wear with loupes or without (e.g. on a second set of loupe frames minus the magnification). Trying to avoid the headband+loupes/protective glasses which I can never get to feel comfortable.
 

Jolie South

is invoking Domo. . .
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Jun 4, 2007
11,616
831
Deep in the Heart of Texas
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
Slight hijack/tangent: What would everyone say is the "best" wireless headlight? Brightness is more important than battery life (to me). I have DFV loupes, but open to change. I'd honestly like to find a light I can wear with loupes or without (e.g. on a second set of loupe frames minus the magnification). Trying to avoid the headband+loupes/protective glasses which I can never get to feel comfortable.
I have the HD mini from designs for vision with two battery packs. Adds like zero weight and clips on to my Nike loupes. I love it.
 

mikeGR

10+ Year Member
May 26, 2011
99
96
Slight hijack/tangent: What would everyone say is the "best" wireless headlight? Brightness is more important than battery life (to me). I have DFV loupes, but open to change. I'd honestly like to find a light I can wear with loupes or without (e.g. on a second set of loupe frames minus the magnification). Trying to avoid the headband+loupes/protective glasses which I can never get to feel comfortable.

I was looking into this as well, planning to buy once I start my new contract (have the DFV Nike 2.5x loupes). Per the DFV rep:
The price of our Daylite HDI is $1,295. The weight of the optic is 1oz. High intensity is 100,000 LUX. The unit comes complete with 2 power packs. You get 6.5 hours run time on a high and 8.5 hours on medium. The price of our Ultra Mini HDI is $1,295. The weight of the optic is 0.5oz. High intensity is 55,000 LUX. The unit comes complete with 2 power packs. You get 10 hours run time on a high setting and 17 hours on medium. The price of our Twin Beam HDI is $2,295. High intensity is 140,000 LUX. The unit comes complete with 2 power packs. You get 4 hours run time on a high setting and 5.4 hours on medium. This is a dual headlight and would be worn on headset. Please see link below for pictures. Surgical Lighting Systems

All of our new lighting options come with our HDI Universal power packs. These power packs have a simple one touch operation system as well as a smart-link technology to use both power packs at the same time for a long procedure. There is a fuel gauge indicator to keep you up to date on each power pack’s life. When the power pack is left with only 10% charge the optic light will flash to let you know to change out the power pack.

Someone also recommended the Lumadent headlights. They seem to have similar specs to the DVI mini at about half the price. https://lumadent.com/shop/by-category/headlight/prolux-best-value.html

Let us know what you decide and how they feel!

M
 

droliver

Moderator Emeritus
15+ Year Member
May 2, 2001
1,587
151
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
I'm also in the market for a LED headlight, does anyone have recommendations for a light manufacturer? Ideally something that has a wide light and is long lasting.

I absolutely love this Vorotek headlight. Very light. Great battery life.

One pro tip as an alternative to lower power loupes (2-3x) is to just get some cheap plastic bifocal safety goggles. They're < $15 and a pretty good substitute for loupes. I like the ones from Dewalt (the power tool company). I haven't used my DFV 2.5x loupes in 15 years. Search on Amazon for:
Dewalt DPG59-130C Reinforcer Rx-Bifocal 3.0
 

Medstart108

7+ Year Member
Mar 24, 2012
2,174
449
Status (Visible)
  1. Resident [Any Field]
update: very happy with my surgitel 3.5x. Can't really compare with the other manufacturers but they are lightweight, fit pretty well and vision is clear. The light is strong enough, lasts about 8 hrs continuous use new.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

Slack3r

Sicker than your average
10+ Year Member
Jul 23, 2008
2,885
1,437
I absolutely love this Vorotek headlight. Very light. Great battery life.

One pro tip as an alternative to lower power loupes (2-3x) is to just get some cheap plastic bifocal safety goggles. They're < $15 and a pretty good substitute for loupes. I like the ones from Dewalt (the power tool company). I haven't used my DFV 2.5x loupes in 15 years. Search on Amazon for:
Dewalt DPG59-130C Reinforcer Rx-Bifocal 3.0

How are you using these with such a short focal length? Feel like I have to bend way over to have anything in focus.
 

Dr.LeoSpaceman

Senior Member, f/k/a FaytlND
15+ Year Member
Jun 15, 2004
1,185
1,097
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
Necrobump on this thread for an update.

I ended up getting a pair of Surgitel 3.0x with the headlight, coming from my original DFV 2.5x. Wish I would have done it sooner. Somehow it seems that I've ended up with wider and longer field of view with more magnification. The working distance adjustment caps are also a nice bonus, as it saves me from having different sets of loupes. I also got rid of the "sport" frame style and went back to the traditional. I always had a hard time looking "around", which isn't an issue with the standard metal frames.
 
About the Ads

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

  1. Your new thread title is very short, and likely is unhelpful.
  2. Your reply is very short and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  3. Your reply is very long and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  4. It is very likely that it does not need any further discussion and thus bumping it serves no purpose.
  5. Your message is mostly quotes or spoilers.
  6. Your reply has occurred very quickly after a previous reply and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  7. This thread is locked.