Surgical residency matches

[soccerbabe7582]

Hey

So I was talking to a pediatric surg I have been shadowing for a while now and asked him his thoughts on the md/do deal. He is a HUGE advocate of DO although he is an MD himself. However, he told me the one problem with going DO is that it is very difficult to obtain a residency in surgery as a DO.

Anybody can confirm or disconfirm this?

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[Iliketoytles]

Hm, well I think it depends on the school you go to, which is why looking at residency matches is so important in making a decision to any school.

I've heard a lot of talk around the forum that it's quite common to find a DO surgeon. I shadowed a DO ophthalmologist (AMAZING doctor by the way), and I know there are lots of DO surgeons around the area. You may have to end up matching into an MD residency, which can be difficult for a DO, but ultimately it can be done. Just like anything, you gotta work hard and be determined.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Hm, well I think it depends on the school you go to, which is why looking at residency matches is so important in making a decision to any school.

I've heard a lot of talk around the forum that it's quite common to find a DO surgeon. I shadowed a DO ophthalmologist (AMAZING doctor by the way), and I know there are lots of DO surgeons around the area. You may have to end up matching into an MD residency, which can be difficult for a DO, but ultimately it can be done. Just like anything, you gotta work hard and be determined.

Actually there is very little information that one can discern from a residency match list as a premed. Firstly because people with potential for more competitive residencies ( read as have high board scores) might choose less competitive ones because they are more interested in that field. Secondly, tying in with the previous point, because we don't know many big names of programs, so when we see IM at MGH or Women's we don't realize those are more competitive than the average ortho step score.
And surgery is very hard to land for DO's. ACGME general surgery is extremely difficult and the others surgical sub specialties are beyond impossible. AOA residencies are all DO's can really match into and there aren't that many of them to go around. So anecdotal evidence is very anecdotal...


OP: Surgery is competitive, for MD's and DO's. You can land it if you're smart and have high board scores. Though I would say that if you want a major specialize surgery fellowship like pediatric neurosurgery.... then I recommend you be a pure genius and be at Harvard as an MD/PhD < Half serious/ half joking.

 

[costales]

Recent TCOM matches:

2010

General Surgery
Ochsner Clinic Foundation, New Orleans, LA
West Virginia University/Charleston Area Medical Center, Charleston, WV
New York College of Osteopathic Medicine/Lutheran Medical Center, Brooklyn, NY
University of Texas Health Science Center, San Antonio, TX

Orthopaedic Surgery
Western University College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific/Good Samaritan Regional Medical Center, Corvallis, OR
John Peter Smith Hospital, Fort Worth, TX


2011

Otolaryn & Facial Plastic Surgery
Pontiac Osteopathic Hospital, Pontiac, MI

General Surgery
Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Bronx, NY
St. Barnabas Hospital, Bronx, NY
Dwight D. Eisenhower Army Medical Center, Fort Gordon, GA
Garden City Osteopathic Hospital, Garden City, MI
Exempla St. Joseph Hospital, Denver, CO
New York College of Osteopathic Medicine/Peninsula Hospital Center, Queens, NY
Plaza Medical Center, Fort Worth, TX
St. James Hospital, Chicago, IL
University of Arkansas, Little Rock, AR
Mayo School of Graduate Medical Education, Rochester, MN

Orthopaedic Surgery
John Peter Smith Hospital, Fort Worth, TX
Mercy St. Vincent Medical Center, Toledo, OH
Oklahoma State University College of Osteopathic Medicine/St. Anthony Hospital, Oklahoma City, OK

Urological Surgery
West Virginia School of Medicine/Charleston Area Medical Center, Charleston, WV

 

[Mbeas]

One of the DO's I shadowed is a surgeon in New Jersey. He said he didn't face any obstacles and he went the ACGME route.

Obviously, this is one person's opinion but he seriously said that he didn't have any trouble getting a residency. Sure, n=1 blah blah blah but I just wanted to throw in my $0.02.

Maybe he's a wizard?

 

[Mbeas]

Recent TCOM matches:

surgery match list

Are these AOA residency sites?

 

[Sinfest]

Are these AOA residency sites?

Some are, some aren't

 

[cliquesh]

In 2011, of the 4228 DO graduates, 130 went into general surgery. 28 at ACGME programs and 102 at AOA programs. You can figure out the stats for some of the other surgical fields by visiting:

http://www.nrmp.org/data/index.html
http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/index.htm

 

[scummie]

For what it's worth, we just had a lecture from a plastic surgeon that's a DO.

 

[munchymanRX]

Hey

So I was talking to a pediatric surg I have been shadowing for a while now and asked him his thoughts on the md/do deal. He is a HUGE advocate of DO although he is an MD himself. However, he told me the one problem with going DO is that it is very difficult to obtain a residency in surgery as a DO.

Anybody can confirm or disconfirm this?

It is difficult to obtain a residency in surgery as an MD or DO. As a DO you have access to AOA surgical internships, but the tradeoff is that you may have a hard er time matching into ACGME ones. As an MD you are locked out of AOA surg (unless the program is dually accredited).

It hardly matters which degree you get. You will not have an easier time one way or the other.

 

[DrMaximus]

One of the DO's I shadowed is a surgeon in New Jersey. He said he didn't face any obstacles and he went the ACGME route.

Obviously, this is one person's opinion but he seriously said that he didn't have any trouble getting a residency. Sure, n=1 blah blah blah but I just wanted to throw in my $0.02.

Maybe he's a wizard?

Optimism and invisible wizard ink in one post!! Freakin' awesome.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

It is difficult to obtain a residency in surgery as an MD or DO. As a DO you have access to AOA surgical internships, but the tradeoff is that you may have a hard er time matching into ACGME ones. As an MD you are locked out of AOA surg (unless the program is dually accredited).

It hardly matters which degree you get. You will not have an easier time one way or the other.

You're ignoring the very evident anti-DO bias in ACGME surgery, to which many residents and medical students have attested..

 

[Kuba]

Hm, well I think it depends on the school you go to, which is why looking at residency matches is so important in making a decision to any school.

I've heard a lot of talk around the forum that it's quite common to find a DO surgeon. I shadowed a DO ophthalmologist (AMAZING doctor by the way), and I know there are lots of DO surgeons around the area. You may have to end up matching into an MD residency, which can be difficult for a DO, but ultimately it can be done. Just like anything, you gotta work hard and be determined.

Looking at match lists is probably the silliest thing you can do. Many, many reasons, not that much time.

You're ignoring the very evident anti-DO bias in ACGME surgery, to which many residents and medical students have attested..

umm.. is there some bias among select programs? Sure. 'very evident ant-bias?' I would have to disagree. Out of the 5 students that matched surgery with my class, 2 were ACGME categorical. one of them was mayo.. Having been through the process, I can tell you that the biggest reason more DOs don't match ACGME surgery is because most don't try. This may be shocking to you pre-meds that all want to do surgery at this point and all want to do ACGME preferably. Your sentiments will change once you start learning the whole system.

Problem with SDN is people that don't know anything about matching into residencies (pre-meds, M1s, M2s) post opinions as truth and then all the other pre-meds, m1s, and m2s just repeat those sentiments ad nauseum. Find credible sources.

ps. anti-bias = the opposite of bias??

 

[munchymanRX]

You're ignoring the very evident anti-DO bias in ACGME surgery, to which many residents and medical students have attested..

You're ignoring the fact that he didn't say he necessarily wanted to do ACGME surgery. I deliberately left it out because it's irrelevant based purely on the information he's supplied and I didn't want to start a discussion that could hijack the thread.

Yes, it is real. The bias in ACGME surgery against DOs is high. This, however, will not stop you in the slightest from becoming a surgeon if you do well enough at an osteopathic school.

 

[soccerbabe7582]

Thanks everyone for your post.

Helps me a lot!