Switching from pre-med to dental?

[thehappydoctor]

Hi so one of my friends is switching from pre-med to pre-dental. I was a bit surprised that he did this but then i realized lots of people are changing their minds now... has anyone else considered doing this? i mean i don't understand really the switch so i thought i'd make a pro and con list

DDS vs. MD/DO
Pros:
dentist works 9-5, no emergency calls, more free time, weekends free
less stressful
same (-ish) amount of money as doctors
private practice
less years in school
still helping people

WOW after writing this i dont see any cons of being a dentist....

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[sinombre]

Hi so one of my friends is switching from pre-med to pre-dental. I was a bit surprised that he did this but then i realized lots of people are changing their minds now... has anyone else considered doing this? i mean i don't understand really the switch so i thought i'd make a pro and con list

DDS vs. MD/DO
Pros:
dentist works 9-5, no emergency calls, more free time, weekends free
less stressful
same (-ish) amount of money as doctors
private practice
less years in school
still helping people

WOW after writing this i dont see any cons of being a dentist....

Limited scope of practice? Not everyone wants to work on teeth for 30 years before retiring. There are also few downsides to podiatry if that's something you're actually interested in.

 

[tarheel1408]

As a dentist you'll rarely save someone's life. That is commonplace in medicine.

 

[sinombre]

As a dentist you'll rarely save someone's life. That is commonplace in medicine.

No, it's not. "Saving lives" is commonplace in relatively few specialties, regardless of how lax of a definition you give it.

 

[circulus vitios]

You can make good money as a physician who is a hospital employee. That's not really true of dentistry. There are big dental chains like Aspen that, I believe, can treat you like an employee with no partnership buy-in, but I've heard they're terrible employers. Low pay, high productivity quotas, and an overall terrible work environment. You can buy into a private practice but then you're tied to one area for the rest of your life.

Dental school is also more expensive than medicine. It's harder to specialize as a dentist than it is to specialize as a physician. Dental residencies are typically unpaid. Then there's that whole working in the mouth thing...

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

Limited scope of practice? Not everyone wants to work on teeth for 30 years before retiring. There are also few downsides to podiatry if that's something you're actually interested in.

 

[Josh7]

Hi so one of my friends is switching from pre-med to pre-dental. I was a bit surprised that he did this but then i realized lots of people are changing their minds now... has anyone else considered doing this? i mean i don't understand really the switch so i thought i'd make a pro and con list

DDS vs. MD/DO
Pros:
dentist works 9-5, no emergency calls, more free time, weekends free
less stressful
same (-ish) amount of money as doctors
private practice
less years in school
still helping people

WOW after writing this i dont see any cons of being a dentist....

Just depends what you're interested in.

 

[Mavii]

I always find it surprising when this type of thread comes up. People always seem to leave out the most important difference, and that is working strictly with teeth. Yeah you can look at all the other aspects of the job, but don't overlook the job itself. I've never even thought of becoming a dentist, regardless of the things you mentioned OP. The thought never even crossed my mind because there's no way I'd work with teeth my whole life. Just as there's no way I'd work on feet my whole life. To each his own...

 

[torshi]

Hi so one of my friends is switching from pre-med to pre-dental. I was a bit surprised that he did this but then i realized lots of people are changing their minds now... has anyone else considered doing this? i mean i don't understand really the switch so i thought i'd make a pro and con list

DDS vs. MD/DO
Pros:
dentist works 9-5, no emergency calls, more free time, weekends free
less stressful
same (-ish) amount of money as doctors
private practice
less years in school
still helping people

WOW after writing this i dont see any cons of being a dentist....

That's good because it weeds out the TRUE physicians. Honestly the reason most likely came down to money and time commitment in regards to education and work hours. They don't want to work hard and earn it. Not to say Dentistry is easy per se, it's obviously the shorter road to take even though the competition is still high. They change their minds to have more of a comfortable life while still making a good amount of money. If saying that is not the case, don't be naive, who really changes their mind from being a physician in which you can sub-specialize in areas if that is your case or work on a variety of cases change from medicine to dentistry. It all comes down to time commitment and money. Good for them we need people like that so people with true desires will pursue medicine without money ever being a consideration, well obviously it may be a minute factor, but if it is not a major factor when a future hypothetical healthcare bill comes in place and cuts your salary in half then you shouldn't be the one to complain since your main desire was not money. As a physician...we all know you make a good amount of money to say all this crap about salary cuts....boo hoo you are still making ends meet well above average in regards to the family household. Live modestly and you will be fine financially and comfortably loving your job every little second which is simple and cliche....helping people.

 

[Renaissance Man]

That's good because it weeds out the TRUE physicians. Honestly the reason most likely came down to money and time commitment in regards to education and work hours. They don't want to work hard and earn it.

Or perhaps they are just more interested in dentistry...also 4 years of dental school + multi-year dental residency isn't that much shorter than what a lot of medical students go through.

 

[EtherBunny]

Hi so one of my friends is switching from pre-med to pre-dental. I was a bit surprised that he did this but then i realized lots of people are changing their minds now... has anyone else considered doing this? i mean i don't understand really the switch so i thought i'd make a pro and con list

DDS vs. MD/DO
Pros:
dentist works 9-5, no emergency calls, more free time, weekends free
less stressful
same (-ish) amount of money as doctors
private practice
less years in school
still helping people

WOW after writing this i dont see any cons of being a dentist....

Going into dentistry is a very smart choice these days. In general, it's better to be a dentist than a physician in the current health care system. My dad is a dentist and I'm a physician. My dad works 4 days a week (Friday, Sat, Sun off every week), owns his practice, and takes 4 weeks of vacation. He's been called into his office for an emergency once in 30 years of practice. He earns plenty of money to live comfortably.

Dentistry is an amazing gig, especially if you subspecialize. My dad's colleagues in orthodontics, pedo, and endo are doing extremely well financially (i.e., $400K to $1 million annual income) and are very happy with their professional and personal lives.

Stay away from medicine unless you truly have a passion for the field.

 

[torshi]

Or perhaps they are just more interested in dentistry...also 4 years of dental school + multi-year dental residency isn't that much shorter than what a lot of medical students go through.

Yea......first I want to be a doctor with countless areas of specialization with the broader range of skill set accompanied with the greatest gratification of all time....wait never mind I love teeth. I doubt the majority of people who switched really were more interested in the field, they were interested in the opportunities it had in terms of hours and salary. It's alright to state the obvious.

As for the training. I guarantee the people who made the sudden switch are not interested in specializing, and the ones who always chose dentistry planned on specializing. It's not a requirement. For physicians it is, and maybe the individual who at first wanted to become a physician realized they can't specialize in the field of interest as well due to difficulty and the possibilities it might not happen - dentistry after 4 years along with maybe doing some cosmetics on the side sounded more comfortable. I'm not hating on dentistry, but glad someone made the switch because again.....it goes to show the mentality of some people who actually go through with medical school who might of have the same mindset of what I just described above.

 

[Lollygag]

I always find it surprising when this type of thread comes up. People always seem to leave out the most important difference, and that is working strictly with teeth. Yeah you can look at all the other aspects of the job, but don't overlook the job itself. I've never even thought of becoming a dentist, regardless of the things you mentioned OP. The thought never even crossed my mind because there's no way I'd work with teeth my whole life. Just as there's no way I'd work on feet my whole life. To each his own...

I want to do something that is more rewarding to me, and working on teeth just isn't rewarding enough for me. Plus.. some people have really gross teeth lol I know medicine can be gross too but dang.. some people just don't ever brush their teeth lol

 

[MedPR]

That's good because it weeds out the TRUE physicians. Honestly the reason most likely came down to money and time commitment in regards to education and work hours. They don't want to work hard and earn it. Not to say Dentistry is easy per se, it's obviously the shorter road to take even though the competition is still high. They change their minds to have more of a comfortable life while still making a good amount of money. If saying that is not the case, don't be naive, who really changes their mind from being a physician in which you can sub-specialize in areas if that is your case or work on a variety of cases change from medicine to dentistry. It all comes down to time commitment and money. Good for them we need people like that so people with true desires will pursue medicine without money ever being a consideration, well obviously it may be a minute factor, but if it is not a major factor when a future hypothetical healthcare bill comes in place and cuts your salary in half then you shouldn't be the one to complain since your main desire was not money. As a physician...we all know you make a good amount of money to say all this crap about salary cuts....boo hoo you are still making ends meet well above average in regards to the family household. Live modestly and you will be fine financially and comfortably loving your job every little second which is simple and cliche....helping people.

I lol'd.

 

[mr chievous]

My girlfriend is going to dental school. She'll be in school for a shorter amount of time than me, she'll probably be making more than me, she'll be working less than me, and will be less stressed than me. I'm still going to be a physician. Why?

She doesn't mind looking at teeth all day. I do.

 

[Renaissance Man]

I lol'd.

So did I, still am in fact.

 

[torshi]

Laugh all you want and be the hypocrites. Sadly, y'all can't state the obvious.

 

[fahimaz7]

They work less and make more money. It's a no brainer.

 

[fahimaz7]

As a dentist you'll rarely save someone's life. That is commonplace in medicine.

I what fields of medicine? lol. Most doctors don't leave work and say.. "hmm.. I saved like so many lives today!"

lol .

 

[mimelim]

I what fields of medicine? lol. Most doctors don't leave work and say.. "hmm.. I saved like so many lives today!"

lol .

I am currently on call for our Vascular Surgery service. I am covering 8 ICU patients and ~30 floor/IMU patients. I am the only MD in house right now with fellow and attending backup.

In the last 4 hours, I have:

1) Continued stablizing a patient that came in with an aortic dissection earlier today, titrating esmolol and cardine drips.

2) Stopped a patient from exsanguinating from a ruptured AV Fistula in the ED by holding pressure, having a nurse replace where I was holding pressure and then suture a temporary proline figure of 8. Then proceded to book an OR and bring in one of our surgeons for an emergency repair.

3) Removed an infected tunnelled dialysis catheter and placed a temporary quinton catheter so that the patient with a potassium of 6.5 can get hemodialysis tonight.

And it is only 9pm. In a typical day/night call, we will on average save at least a limb or two, if not a life. No, dentists don't do what we do.

I love my wife, I love my life outside of the hospital. If push came to shove, yes, I could leave medicine, surgery and taking care of the sickest of the sick patients and live a fullfilling life. But, if it remains up to me, I want it all. I didn't and wouldn't choose something more lifestyle friendly because honest to God, I have to do things that #1 Make a difference in people's lives on an hourly basis and #2 99%+ of the population would be too damn scared to do and take responsibility for.

 

[Doudline]

That's good because it weeds out the TRUE physicians. Honestly the reason most likely came down to money and time commitment in regards to education and work hours. They don't want to work hard and earn it.

Yeah, medicine is the ultimate profession and if you venture into anything else it's because you're a dumb lazy greedy mofo without any future. WHY NOT.

 

[487806]

I am currently on call for our Vascular Surgery service. I am covering 8 ICU patients and ~30 floor/IMU patients. I am the only MD in house right now with fellow and attending backup.

In the last 4 hours, I have:

1) Continued stablizing a patient that came in with an aortic dissection earlier today, titrating esmolol and cardine drips.

2) Stopped a patient from exsanguinating from a ruptured AV Fistula in the ED by holding pressure, having a nurse replace where I was holding pressure and then suture a temporary proline figure of 8. Then proceded to book an OR and bring in one of our surgeons for an emergency repair.

3) Removed an infected tunnelled dialysis catheter and placed a temporary quinton catheter so that the patient with a potassium of 6.5 can get hemodialysis tonight.

And it is only 9pm. In a typical day/night call, we will on average save at least a limb or two, if not a life. No, dentists don't do what we do.

I love my wife, I love my life outside of the hospital. If push came to shove, yes, I could leave medicine, surgery and taking care of the sickest of the sick patients and live a fullfilling life. But, if it remains up to me, I want it all. I didn't and wouldn't choose something more lifestyle friendly because honest to God, I have to do things that #1 Make a difference in people's lives on an hourly basis and #2 99%+ of the population would be too damn scared to do and take responsibility for.

 

[torshi]

Yeah, medicine is the ultimate profession and if you venture into anything else it's because you're a dumb lazy greedy mofo without any future. WHY NOT.

Exactly... why not....Is it that hard to believe? You have to realize the majority of people who first pursue medicine are 18 year old kids straight out of high school, I doubt the majority have the right mindset let alone still mature to think logically in regards to why they are choosing a specific career and what the many factors are besides money and lifestyle that play a major role. To think that every college student is a rational thinker planning their future is illogical and naive. It goes both ways pal. Also, way to take things out of context to embellish your stance even more in hopes to belittle my perspective that serves as potential possibilities. Again, just another person who can't comprehend by mixing emotion with irrational thinking.

 

[MedPR]

I am currently on call for our Vascular Surgery service. I am covering 8 ICU patients and ~30 floor/IMU patients. I am the only MD in house right now with fellow and attending backup.

In the last 4 hours, I have:

1) Continued stablizing a patient that came in with an aortic dissection earlier today, titrating esmolol and cardine drips.

2) Stopped a patient from exsanguinating from a ruptured AV Fistula in the ED by holding pressure, having a nurse replace where I was holding pressure and then suture a temporary proline figure of 8. Then proceded to book an OR and bring in one of our surgeons for an emergency repair.

3) Removed an infected tunnelled dialysis catheter and placed a temporary quinton catheter so that the patient with a potassium of 6.5 can get hemodialysis tonight.

And it is only 9pm. In a typical day/night call, we will on average save at least a limb or two, if not a life. No, dentists don't do what we do.

I love my wife, I love my life outside of the hospital. If push came to shove, yes, I could leave medicine, surgery and taking care of the sickest of the sick patients and live a fullfilling life. But, if it remains up to me, I want it all. I didn't and wouldn't choose something more lifestyle friendly because honest to God, I have to do things that #1 Make a difference in people's lives on an hourly basis and #2 99%+ of the population would be too damn scared to do and take responsibility for.

Please be my mentor.

 

[circulus vitios]

Exactly... why not....Is it that hard to believe? You have to realize the majority of people who first pursue medicine are 18 year old kids straight out of high school, I doubt the majority have the right mindset let alone still mature to think logically in regards to why they are choosing a specific career and what the many factors are besides money and lifestyle that play a major role. To think that every college student is a rational thinker planning their future is illogical and naive. It goes both ways pal. Also, way to take things out of context to embellish your stance even more in hopes to belittle my perspective that serves as potential possibilities. Again, just another person who can't comprehend by mixing emotion with irrational thinking.

cliffs: DOCTOR GOOD. EVERYONE ELSE LAZY, GREEDY, AND BAD.

 

[487806]

Please be my mentor.

That's one reason why I like mimelim and other residents/attendings. Direct, but helpful.

 

[Renaissance Man]

No one is saying that doctors and dentists do the same job...however it is ridiculous to assume that a dentist can't be as equally fulfilled with his/her job as a neurosurgeon who saves 87 lives a day.

Also generally speaking, the median salary of a dentist is lower than that of a doctor. As shown here. No need to point out exceptions or differences among specialities, I realize this is a sweeping generalization.

 

[lobo.solo]

I am currently on call for our Vascular Surgery service. I am covering 8 ICU patients and ~30 floor/IMU patients. I am the only MD in house right now with fellow and attending backup.

In the last 4 hours, I have:

1) Continued stablizing a patient that came in with an aortic dissection earlier today, titrating esmolol and cardine drips.

2) Stopped a patient from exsanguinating from a ruptured AV Fistula in the ED by holding pressure, having a nurse replace where I was holding pressure and then suture a temporary proline figure of 8. Then proceded to book an OR and bring in one of our surgeons for an emergency repair.

3) Removed an infected tunnelled dialysis catheter and placed a temporary quinton catheter so that the patient with a potassium of 6.5 can get hemodialysis tonight.

And it is only 9pm. In a typical day/night call, we will on average save at least a limb or two, if not a life. No, dentists don't do what we do.

I love my wife, I love my life outside of the hospital. If push came to shove, yes, I could leave medicine, surgery and taking care of the sickest of the sick patients and live a fullfilling life. But, if it remains up to me, I want it all. I didn't and wouldn't choose something more lifestyle friendly because honest to God, I have to do things that #1 Make a difference in people's lives on an hourly basis and #2 99%+ of the population would be too damn scared to do and take responsibility for.

This is bad ass!!!

 

[NDPitch]

Hey everyone-

The OP made the same thread over in the pre-dent forums, and I saw that they made one over here as well. It's interesting to see the difference in responses from med students and dent students. As someone that chose to go to dental school over medical school, I thought I'd share my perspective.

I shadowed both careers. I initially thought I'd go to medical school. But, I simply liked dentistry more than medicine. Why?

I enjoyed the highly specialized nature of dentistry, and knowing ahead of time that the oral cavity would be your area of expertise when you got out of school - even if you went on to specialize. I liked that most problems in dentistry can be fixed, and not just treated with pharmaceuticals. I enjoyed how personable dentistry is, and that you have the opportunity to meet a lot of people, getting to know families over the length of your career. I liked the opportunity to be your own boss and work in a small office setting. I liked that, when I'm full stride in my career and established, I might be able to work 32 hours a week and spend time with my family and work on my hobbies. So, there was way more to it than "I like teeth", which I suppose is good enough reason to pursue dentistry on its own. Do opthamologists pursue opthamology because they love eyes? I dunno.

I chose dentistry, even knowing that dentists are perceived by physicians and the general public as not being "real doctors". I'm the type of person that doesn't need to have any status symbols. I just wanted to do something that I loved and that would allow me to be independent and have a balanced family life at the same time. Do we save lives on a daily basis? No. Do we make life or death decisions on an operating table? No. And I like that about my career field - I'm not the type of person that would work well under such stress. I chose dentistry for me, not because it was the easier route that would make equal amounts of money. I would encourage anyone to seriously consider what they're doing before they take "the easy way out" to still make a lot of money. Money and status symbols are not everything, it's personal fulfillment and happiness.

I'll end with saying that this in no way bashes any of you guys pursuing medicine. A lot of you are awesome people that are definitely doing what YOU want to do for the rest of your lives. That's awesome, and that's what it's all about. What makes you happy, and what do you want out of your career? Perhaps the things I don't like about medicine are what make you love it so much. But, you only live once, so do what's right for you.

 

[EtherBunny]

No one is saying that doctors and dentists do the same job...however it is ridiculous to assume that a dentist can't be as equally fulfilled with his/her job as a neurosurgeon who saves 87 lives a day.

Also generally speaking, the median salary of a dentist is lower than that of a doctor. As shown here. No need to point out exceptions or differences among specialities, I realize this is a sweeping generalization.

You're looking at the wrong salary surveys. You should look at the ADA surveys to get an accurate estimation of income for dentists in private practice. The average for a general dentist in private practice is above $200,000 annually (I think around $220,000). Keep in mind that the average general dentist works less than 35 hours per week.

In contrast, the average primary care physician earns approximately $200,000 annually and works at least 50-60 hours per week.

$220,000 for a 35 hour work week vs. $200,000 for 50-60 hours per week. That's a BIG difference in hourly income.

If you look at dental subspecialties, again according to the ADA survey, the income for these subspecialties is very high--certainly on par with the majority of medical and surgical subspecialties in medicine when you take into consideration the average hours worked per week. Endodontists are earning over $300,000 annually and they don't work more than 35 hours a week. Orthodontists are likewise in the 300s (or substantially higher). OMFS commands an income well above $500K annually. Pedodontists do extremely well. All of these subspecialists command a high income and have a very reasonable work schedule (i.e., less than 40 hours per week).

Dentistry is a great career. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

 

[Medstart108]

Hi so one of my friends is switching from pre-med to pre-dental. I was a bit surprised that he did this but then i realized lots of people are changing their minds now... has anyone else considered doing this? i mean i don't understand really the switch so i thought i'd make a pro and con list

DDS vs. MD/DO
Pros:
dentist works 9-5, no emergency calls, more free time, weekends free
less stressful
same (-ish) amount of money as doctors
private practice
less years in school
still helping people

WOW after writing this i dont see any cons of being a dentist....

Some people just don't like teeth. I never liked the dentist (actually dental hygenist) as a kid mostly because she wielded sharp tools and punished me for not brushing my teeth.

Whereas i was healthy enough as a kid that i never had to go to the doctor much

Dentists make less and there is also limited choice in specializing

 

[torshi]

Hey everyone-

The OP made the same thread over in the pre-dent forums, and I saw that they made one over here as well. It's interesting to see the difference in responses from med students and dent students. As someone that chose to go to dental school over medical school, I thought I'd share my perspective.

I shadowed both careers. I initially thought I'd go to medical school. But, I simply liked dentistry more than medicine. Why?

I enjoyed the highly specialized nature of dentistry, and knowing ahead of time that the oral cavity would be your area of expertise when you got out of school - even if you went on to specialize. I liked that most problems in dentistry can be fixed, and not just treated with pharmaceuticals. I enjoyed how personable dentistry is, and that you have the opportunity to meet a lot of people, getting to know families over the length of your career. I liked the opportunity to be your own boss and work in a small office setting. I liked that, when I'm full stride in my career and established, I might be able to work 32 hours a week and spend time with my family and work on my hobbies. So, there was way more to it than "I like teeth", which I suppose is good enough reason to pursue dentistry on its own. Do opthamologists pursue opthamology because they love eyes? I dunno.

I chose dentistry, even knowing that dentists are perceived by physicians and the general public as not being "real doctors". I'm the type of person that doesn't need to have any status symbols. I just wanted to do something that I loved and that would allow me to be independent and have a balanced family life at the same time. Do we save lives on a daily basis? No. Do we make life or death decisions on an operating table? No. And I like that about my career field - I'm not the type of person that would work well under such stress. I chose dentistry for me, not because it was the easier route that would make equal amounts of money. I encourage anyone that's taking what they think is the easy way out in light of making the same amount of money to seriously think about what they're doing. Money and status symbols are not everything, it's personal fulfillment and happiness.

I'll end with saying that this in no way bashes any of you guys perusing medicine. A lot of you are awesome people that are definitely doing what YOU want to do for the rest of your lives. That's awesome, and that's what it's all about. What makes you happy, and what do you want out of your career? Perhaps the things I don't like about medicine are what make you love it so much. But, you only live once, so do what's right for you.

1st bold) There are many fields of medicine that aren't just treated by medication? Hands on Surgery...
2nd bold) I dont understand this logic
3rd bold) Emergency medicine folks can have 30+ hour weeks that not being the only exception
4th bold) Indeed (sarcasm)
5th bold) Again, many IM, Primary care wouldn't necessarily see deaths or are considered high-lvl stress

I still don't see your point, not trying to bash, but I still don't see the justifiable reasoning when both provide, but the only difference between the two is the time commitment in regards to education etc.


Also, for the people who replied to my earlier comments....I literally overheard today someone say they chose dentistry simply based off time commitment and had no answer when someone asked them about working with teeth all day. He had no idea what to say. So my stance is valid, yet a generalization, but a good one.

 

[Doudline]

No one is saying that doctors and dentists do the same job...however it is ridiculous to assume that a dentist can't be as equally fulfilled with his/her job as a neurosurgeon who saves 87 lives a day.

That is the most ignorant and obnoxious comment I have ever heard on this forum by a ****ing mile... I am completely flabergasted.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

You're looking at the wrong salary surveys. You should look at the ADA surveys to get an accurate estimation of income for dentists in private practice. The average for a general dentist in private practice is above $200,000 annually (I think around $220,000). Keep in mind that the average general dentist works less than 35 hours per week.

In contrast, the average primary care physician earns approximately $200,000 annually and works at least 50-60 hours per week.

$220,000 for a 35 hour work week vs. $200,000 for 50-60 hours per week. That's a BIG difference in hourly income.

If you look at dental subspecialties, again according to the ADA survey, the income for these subspecialties is very high--certainly on par with the majority of medical and surgical subspecialties in medicine when you take into consideration the average hours worked per week. Endodontists are earning over $300,000 annually and they don't work more than 35 hours a week. Orthodontists are likewise in the 300s (or substantially higher). OMFS commands an income well above $500K annually. Pedodontists do extremely well. All of these subspecialists command a high income and have a very reasonable work schedule (i.e., less than 40 hours per week).

Dentistry is a great career. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Wasn't that 220k average only for a GP dentist who owns his/her own practice? Obviously, not all dentists are able to buy or establish a new practice at any point in their careers. I thought the average for associates in private practice was in the low 100k range (115 I think?).

 

[Screwtape]

That is the most ignorant and obnoxious comment I have ever heard on this forum by a ****ing mile... I am completely flabergasted.

Personal fulfillment is entirely subjective to the individual. I agree the original statement is quite a hyperbole, but that does not mean it is “ignorant and obnoxious” (well it may be obnoxious to you). Different strokes for different folks. Everyone has their own idea of being “fulfilled”—not everyone’s epitome of fulfillment is saving 87 lives in one day, especially when you take into consideration the many sacrifices associated (if that is even possible). Just my two cents.

 

[Doudline]

Personal fulfillment is entirely subjective to the individual. I agree the original statement is quite a hyperbole, but that does not mean it is “ignorant and obnoxious” (well it may be obnoxious to you). Different strokes for different folks. Everyone has their own idea of being “fulfilled”—not everyone’s epitome of fulfillment is saving 87 lives in one day, especially when you take into consideration the many sacrifices associated (if that is even possible). Just my two cents.

I agree with what you are saying, but the way he presented it doesn't echo your thought at all.
He didn't give it any objectivity and presented it as some sort of universal truth.

 

[EtherBunny]

Wasn't that 220k average only for a GP dentist who owns his/her own practice? Obviously, not all dentists are able to buy or establish a new practice at any point in their careers. I thought the average for associates in private practice was in the low 100k range (115 I think?).

You're correct--that figure is for GP dentists that own their practices. However, the predominant model of practice in dentistry is not employment by corporate chains or other dentists. The vast majority of dental graduates end up with their own practice at some point. Sure, many grads will take an associate position immediately after graduation to get their feet wet, so to speak, and start paying off some student loans before they set up their own practice. Those positions don't pay very well, but they are temporary, often serving as a stepping stone to fully independent practice. Not surprisingly, many grads exit those positions as soon as possible to open their practices, because practice ownership is the best gig in dentistry, hands down. Solo practice is still thriving in dentistry and is strongly encouraged by the dental profession as a professional community.

In contrast, good luck being a solo practitioner and practice owner in medicine. The days of physicians graduating from residency and setting up their own practice are numbered (unlike dentisry, solo practitioners in medicine are in the minority). Private practice, in general, is in serious trouble in medicine, which means that single specialty or multispecialty GROUPS of physicians are being phased out. Hospitals are buying up primary care and specialty practices at an astonishing rate. In the process, physicians are becoming employees, often under a bunch of hospital administrators with no clinical experience (i.e., MBAs). Having a bunch of bean counters with no clinical experience try to dictate how you practice medicine is infuriating.

Unfortunately, many pre-meds have no clue about the reality of practicing medicine these days. The field isn't what it used to be.

Now physicians are vilified in the mass media as greedy, self-serving individuals with inconsistent diagnostic acumen and generally poor bedside manner, especially when compared to advanced practice nurses who focus on the "whole patient" (whatever that means). The new political agenda is to elevate midlevel providers to the same level as physicians, but keep the barriers to practice entry quite low for these midlevel providers (they don't have to take equivalent series of licensing exams or endure the same rigorous clinical training). Control over the practice of medicine has shifted AWAY from physicians and squarely into the hands of large corporations and the government. Medicine has become corporatized--the profit motive is paramount, affecting nearly every aspect of patient care. The profession of medicine is in deep, deep trouble.

Dentistry is a much better way to go these days.

 

[EtherBunny]

1st bold) There are many fields of medicine that aren't just treated by medication? Hands on Surgery...
2nd bold) I dont understand this logic
3rd bold) Emergency medicine folks can have 30+ hour weeks that not being the only exception
4th bold) Indeed (sarcasm)
5th bold) Again, many IM, Primary care wouldn't necessarily see deaths or are considered high-lvl stress

I still don't see your point, not trying to bash, but I still don't see the justifiable reasoning when both provide, but the only difference between the two is the time commitment in regards to education etc.


Also, for the people who replied to my earlier comments....I literally overheard today someone say they chose dentistry simply based off time commitment and had no answer when someone asked them about working with teeth all day. He had no idea what to say. So my stance is valid, yet a generalization, but a good one.

ER physicians can have 30+ work weeks but the burnout rate is relatively high. Do you know why that is? Take a closer look at the actual work schedule for ER docs. ER physicians typically have different shifts: a variety of day shifts (e.g., 8 AM to 4 PM) and a variety of night or overnight shifts (midnight to 8 AM). The problem is that most ER physicians have to work a mix of day and night shifts in any given week. It really messes with your circadian rhythms when one day you're working 8 to 4 and the following day you're 3 AM to noon (trust me, I've been on this wacky schedule as a resident in the ER). The combination of high stress and weird hours is a recipe for burnout.

Thus, you can't really compare the work week of a dentist (low stress, no working at night or overnight) to that of an ER doc (high stress, bizarre mix of day and night shifts).

Also, nobody cares anymore if you're a "real" doctor. Status is a ******ed reason to choose medicine these days. For God's sake, advanced practice NURSES are claiming equivalence to physicians in a variety of specialties. If you think that becoming a physician is going to somehow make you extra special in the eyes of the general public, think again. If anything, the general public will tend to perceive you as greedy, rich, and self-serving (don't believe me? read the comments associated with articles in the NY Times that focus on health care). Physicians aren't the pillars of the community that they once were. The corporatization of medicine and greedy midsadventures of physicians over the last 40 years (e.g., Medicare fraud, pill mills) have really eaten away at the social status of physicians.

 

[Renaissance Man]

That is the most ignorant and obnoxious comment I have ever heard on this forum by a ****ing mile... I am completely flabergasted.

The fact that I believe a dentist and a neurosurgeon can both be equally fulfilled by their respective jobs is the most "ignorant and obnoxious" you have heard on this forum?

You either are too sensitive, haven't been around here much, or read my comment wrong.

 

[Renaissance Man]

Personal fulfillment is entirely subjective to the individual. I agree the original statement is quite a hyperbole, but that does not mean it is “ignorant and obnoxious” (well it may be obnoxious to you). Different strokes for different folks. Everyone has their own idea of being “fulfilled”—not everyone’s epitome of fulfillment is saving 87 lives in one day, especially when you take into consideration the many sacrifices associated (if that is even possible). Just my two cents.

That's what I was going for...of all things I post on here, wasn't expected to be attacked about that one.

 

[DREDAY]

I am currently on call for our Vascular Surgery service. I am covering 8 ICU patients and ~30 floor/IMU patients. I am the only MD in house right now with fellow and attending backup.

In the last 4 hours, I have:

1) Continued stablizing a patient that came in with an aortic dissection earlier today, titrating esmolol and cardine drips.

2) Stopped a patient from exsanguinating from a ruptured AV Fistula in the ED by holding pressure, having a nurse replace where I was holding pressure and then suture a temporary proline figure of 8. Then proceded to book an OR and bring in one of our surgeons for an emergency repair.

3) Removed an infected tunnelled dialysis catheter and placed a temporary quinton catheter so that the patient with a potassium of 6.5 can get hemodialysis tonight.

And it is only 9pm. In a typical day/night call, we will on average save at least a limb or two, if not a life. No, dentists don't do what we do.

I love my wife, I love my life outside of the hospital. If push came to shove, yes, I could leave medicine, surgery and taking care of the sickest of the sick patients and live a fullfilling life. But, if it remains up to me, I want it all. I didn't and wouldn't choose something more lifestyle friendly because honest to God, I have to do things that #1 Make a difference in people's lives on an hourly basis and #2 99%+ of the population would be too damn scared to do and take responsibility for.

It's really not that exciting when you are prolonging the morbid life of and 80 year old diabetic vasculopath who can hardly walk by doing a fem-pop and ending up with a graft infection or thrombosis..... Seen too many of them.

Except for a few physicians, most are not saving lives on a daily basis. You just gave a short synopsis of a specialty that deals with the oldest, most morbid and sickest patient population.... Is it really saving lives? Or prolonging death?

 

[Cinclus]

Hi so one of my friends is switching from pre-med to pre-dental. I was a bit surprised that he did this but then i realized lots of people are changing their minds now... has anyone else considered doing this? i mean i don't understand really the switch so i thought i'd make a pro and con list

DDS vs. MD/DO
Pros:
dentist works 9-5, no emergency calls, more free time, weekends free
less stressful
same (-ish) amount of money as doctors
private practice
less years in school
still helping people

WOW after writing this i dont see any cons of being a dentist....

CON: You spend your days inside people's mouths.

Also, it would bore some folks. I'm too into diagnosis to be a dentist.

As with anything though, if you love it, it's a great career choice for you.

 

[IslandStyle808]

That's good because it weeds out the TRUE physicians. Honestly the reason most likely came down to money and time commitment in regards to education and work hours. They don't want to work hard and earn it. Not to say Dentistry is easy per se, it's obviously the shorter road to take even though the competition is still high. They change their minds to have more of a comfortable life while still making a good amount of money. If saying that is not the case, don't be naive, who really changes their mind from being a physician in which you can sub-specialize in areas if that is your case or work on a variety of cases change from medicine to dentistry. It all comes down to time commitment and money. Good for them we need people like that so people with true desires will pursue medicine without money ever being a consideration, well obviously it may be a minute factor, but if it is not a major factor when a future hypothetical healthcare bill comes in place and cuts your salary in half then you shouldn't be the one to complain since your main desire was not money. As a physician...we all know you make a good amount of money to say all this crap about salary cuts....boo hoo you are still making ends meet well above average in regards to the family household. Live modestly and you will be fine financially and comfortably loving your job every little second which is simple and cliche....helping people.

Please post this on the pre-dental forms because I would really like their reaction to this.