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Taking 7+ years to graduate

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KVSP

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What do medical schools think of students who take more than 4-5 years to graduate? I changed my major a couple times and it took me 7.5 years to graduate.
 

KVSP

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Why did you change your major so many times?
I wasn't sure what I wanted to major in at first in case medical school didn't work out. I decided to switch from Arts and Science to Engineering, which made me restart from scratch.
 

AlteredScale

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I wasn't sure what I wanted to major in at first in case medical school didn't work out. I decided to switch from Arts and Science to Engineering, which made me restart from scratch.

I see. Well I if you did well overall you should def be fine as long as you describe your journey through undergrad well (unsure about medicine and then figuring it out after changing majors a few times)!
 

OrdinaryDO

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It took me 6 years to graduate due to taking some time off and relocating to another school in another state. They don't really care. I was never questioned other than, "how did you end up at (fill in the blank)." The average age of medical students is ~25, so you're not alone.
 

IslandStyle808

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Grades matter more than this.
 
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pstrick

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Took me 8.

I win.

Really though, I haven't actually been admitted yet. The theme of my personal statement was finding where I belonged, and I believe I explained my extended time well.
 
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hrbird

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I had 7 different majors... Started undergrad in 1998 and graduated with my BS in 2007. My major was not in the sciences because I didn't know I wanted to be a doctor. I went back to school part time a few years ago and did some post-bac classes to meet the pre-req requirements for med school and got accepted for the class of 2020! My life has been full of adventure and experiences in my career that made it easyish to answer secondary questions on the application. Be ready with good answers when they ask about your record. I don't recommend my path because it seems to be a rougher way to go about it, but it's not impossible with this background to get in.
 

TheBoneDoctah

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I started community college in 2006 and graduated with my degree in 2013. I didn't have anyone ask me about it in any of my interviews, but I also wrote about it in my applications so maybe they already knew


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kingkapoor

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I personally feel GPA and MCAT are all that really matters. If you have a 4.0 and a 515 MCAT and dont come off as a serial killer youre probably going to get into every DO school and a bunch of MD schools.

I dont think Med schools look at withdraws much either, it just seems like there Is not alot of time for the 1000's of applications that take place.

I think 5-6 years down the road If I get into med school or do something else, Im going to test out their system and see if they truly do check anything besides GPA and MCAT for lower stats folks (Put stuff like cured cancer etc) lol
 

AlteredScale

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I dont think Med schools look at withdraws much either, it just seems like there Is not alot of time for the 1000's of applications that take place.

Withdrawals are looked at. If they see your transcript is riddled with W's for courses in the hard sciences but see you aced those basic biology courses they may wonder what was going on and question whether you're ready for the rigor of medical school. You're also assuming that though this process that because time isn't on the screeners side that they'll just ignore W's or other things in ones transcript for that matter. I highly doubt that happens.
I think 5-6 years down the road If I get into med school or do something else, Im going to test out their system and see if they truly do check anything besides GPA and MCAT for lower stats folks (Put stuff like cured cancer etc)

If you put "cured cancer" as an activity on your application it will go in the reject pile. There are screeners at every step of the application process to assess not only your academics but the overall quality of your app. You can put down "assessed the integrity of a cell membrane in XYZ condition/disease" which in reality is the goal of the ENTIRE lab and your PI's (the one running the lab) research interest but come interview time if they ask you "so what did you do in the lab?" and they realize you were the autoclave master (and they'll know, most med school interviewers are PhDs) that'll be recognized.

I wouldn't fool around with your app and try and outsmart the screeners and AdCom. You're medical career is on the line.
 

kingkapoor

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Withdrawals are looked at. If they see your transcript is riddled with W's for courses in the hard sciences but see you aced those basic biology courses they may wonder what was going on and question whether you're ready for the rigor of medical school.


If you put "cured cancer" as an activity on your application it will go in the reject pile. There are screeners at every step of the application process to assess not only your academics but the overall quality of your app. For example, you can put down as "assessed the integrity of a cell membrane in XYZ condition/disease" which in reality is the goal of the ENTIRE lab and your PI's (the one running the lab) research interest but come interview time if they ask you "so what did you do in the lab?" and they realize you were the autoclave master (and they'll know, most med school interviewers are PhDs) that'll be a red flag.

Don't fool around with your app and try and outsmart the screeners and AdCom you're medical career is on the line.
.

I still doubt they do it all the way through. Maybe at the step when they decide to accept you or not, but I think 2-5 W's on a transcript and getting A's is a whole lot better than getting a B even. I have a friend who had a total of 10 W's, he never took the course through unless he knew he could get an A- or higher. Pulled off a 3.9 GPA. Needless to say he was accepted into several medical schools MD and DO. He took the same set of courses as me with the same professors at the same time, infact scored worse than me on the exams that we had in classes, but the difference is I got B's, he got A's. I wish I withdrew as much as he did.

Im not talking about trolling now as I apply, I just want to see the integrity of the application. Finding the cure to cancer is just a quick thrown-out example. What Im trying to say is if they would even see someone with something so important as an EC, because he has a lower GPA/MCAT.
 

AlteredScale

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I still doubt they do it all the way through. Maybe at the step when they decide to accept you or not, but I think 2-5 W's on a transcript and getting A's is a whole lot better than getting a B even. I have a friend who had a total of 10 W's, he never took the course through unless he knew he could get an A- or higher. Pulled off a 3.9 GPA. Needless to say he was accepted into several medical schools MD and DO. He took the same set of courses as me with the same professors at the same time, infact scored worse than me on the exams that we had in classes, but the difference is I got B's, he got A's. I wish I withdrew as much as he did.

Im not talking about trolling now as I apply, I just want to see the integrity of the application. Finding the cure to cancer is just a quick thrown-out example. What Im trying to say is if they would even see someone with something so important as an EC, because he has a lower GPA/MCAT.

I would def say I've never heard of someone being that successful with that many W's on their transcript. There had to be more to you friends story besides just saving/protecting his GPA. @Goro would believe that that many W's would be alarming (unless I'm mistaken).
 

kingkapoor

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I would def say I've never heard of someone being that successful with that many W's on their transcript. There had to be more to you friends story besides just saving/protecting his GPA. @Goro would believe that that many W's would be alarming (unless I'm mistaken).

Not saying this is me, but they can make up an excuse for their W's. (My great uncle George washington died that time and I had to miss the final and take the W or an F), or I had to start working and the job conflicted with my classes but I needed money to keep food on the table). I have 2 W's out of 60 courses (quarter school) on my transcript. And both of the reasons I listed above are true for why I dropped my classes.
Also if DO schools do grade replacement, does the W even matter?

And again out of the 1000's of applications that get submitted and reviewed, you dont see every single one right? Do you know about the guy with a 2.5 and a 25 MCAT who got in? No.
Theres a general trend which can predict someones chances sure, but that doesnt mean just because you havent heard of it, my friend didnt get in. As far as the story goes hes your average Joe, 28 MCAT, had a little bit of shadowing physicians in Jamaica or something.
 

cabinbuilder

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What do medical schools think of students who take more than 4-5 years to graduate? I changed my major a couple times and it took me 7.5 years to graduate.
Took me 7 years to graduate. 3 year break. Did one year post bac, took me 3 years of applying to get into medical school. Did second post-bac at medical school when on academic probation, 4 years med school, 3 years residency.

Like they say, it's about the journey and how bad you want it.
 
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AlteredScale

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Not saying this is me, but they can make up an excuse for their W's. (My great uncle George washington died that time and I had to miss the final and take the W or an F), or I had to start working and the job conflicted with my classes but I needed money to keep food on the table). I have 2 W's out of 60 courses (quarter school) on my transcript. And both of the reasons I listed above are true for why I dropped my classes.
Also if DO schools do grade replacement, does the W even matter?

And again out of the 1000's of applications that get submitted and reviewed, you dont see every single one right? Do you know about the guy with a 2.5 and a 25 MCAT who got in? No.
Theres a general trend which can predict someones chances sure, but that doesnt mean just because you havent heard of it, my friend didnt get in. As far as the story goes hes your average Joe, 28 MCAT, had a little bit of shadowing physicians in Jamaica or something.

Well I believe your friend got in of course but it's n=1 so I still don't believe the notion that you should just drop courses in the middle of the semester and get W's left and right to just protect your GPA (which is what I'm extracting from your statements) and that it's good strategy for admissions.

You're right, now every app get looks at during the primary screen. That's because the guy with the 2.5 and the 20 something MCAT wouldn't last.

Please don't take my statements as "if you have any W's you shouldn't even apply". Heck I had a W on my transcript as well an that was because I forgot to drop the class before the deadline and it meant nothing. I'm saying if you have 12 W's all in the hard sciences and they see that you decided not to retake them or retook them and ended up with a C then it will be looked at and questioned in terms of your ability to get through a medical school curriculum. If you are scraping by with C's or B's they aren't going to risk letting you bury yourself in hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt to just fail out of med school.
 

kingkapoor

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Well I believe your friend got in of course but it's n=1 so I still don't believe the notion that you should just drop courses in the middle of the semester and get W's left and right to just protect your GPA (which is what I'm extracting from your statements) and that it's good strategy for admissions.

You're right, now every app get looks at during the primary screen. That's because the guy with the 2.5 and the 20 something MCAT wouldn't last.

Please don't take my statements as "if you have any W's you shouldn't even apply". Heck I had a W on my transcript as well an that was because I forgot to drop the class before the deadline and it meant nothing. I'm saying if you have 12 W's all in the hard sciences and they see that you decided not to retake them or retook them and ended up with a C then it will be looked at and questioned in terms of your ability to get through a medical school curriculum. If you are scraping by with C's or B's they aren't going to risk letting you bury yourself in hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt to just fail out of med school.

True but I dont think this would ever happen would it?
My friend was doing it to get A's hence the 4.0.
If you retake a class after the drop date and end up with a C after having already taken the class it says something about the person as a student right? I cant imagine taking a class twice and doing poorly the second time unless the professor truly hates you. I understand what youre trying to say here, but the case is, I am talking about taking the W for the A. I wouldnt go as far as to say take 12 W's but in my opinion 5-6 W's and getting an A vs getting a C in those classes is going to carry you a lot farther frankly. Because 6 C's is going to sink you before you even get to the interview (through the computer)
 

AlteredScale

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If you retake a class after the drop date and end up with a C after having already taken the class it says something about the person as a student right? I cant imagine taking a class twice and doing poorly the second time unless the professor truly hates you. I understand what youre trying to say here, but the case is, I am talking about taking the W for the A. I wouldnt go as far as to say take 12 W's but in my opinion 5-6 W's and getting an A vs getting a C in those classes is going to carry you a lot farther frankly. Because 6 C's is going to sink you before you even get to the interview (through the computer)

If you retake a W and end up with a C, it could mean the course was difficult for you, your study skills were poor, something else in your life (like a death or something) affected your ability to focus and do well, etc etc. It could mean a lot and it may leave a lot of questions and doubts about your ability to get through the rigor of M1 if you have W's and C's all over your transcript especially during your junior/senior years of undergrad. A professor could care less if you took W the first time, they'll grade you the same and you'll get the grade you deserve.

I'm not sure what is "OK" for AdCom in terms of W's. I think @Goro (who is AdCom and faculty) said something between 2-5 is acceptable.
 

kingkapoor

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If you retake a W and end up with a C, it could mean the course was difficult for you, your study skills were poor, something else in your life (like a death or something) affected your ability to focus and do well, etc etc. It could mean a lot and it may leave a lot of questions and doubts about your ability to get through the rigor of M1 if you have W's and C's all over your transcript especially during your junior/senior years of undergrad. A professor could care less if you took W the first time, they'll grade you the same and you'll get the grade you deserve.

I'm not sure what is "OK" for AdCom in terms of W's. I think @Goro (who is AdCom and faculty) said something between 2-5 is acceptable.

Again, What Im trying to say is, get an A in the retake. Not get a C.
Id prefer if you leave Goro out of this discussion, hes a chill person, but I'd prefer not to have his advice as its usually based only on his school.
 

Goro

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Let's get the viewpoint from the wise @gonnif, @gyngyn and @LizzyM then.


Again, What Im trying to say is, get an A in the retake. Not get a C.
Id prefer if you leave Goro out of this discussion, hes a chill person, but I'd prefer not to have his advice as its usually based only on his school.
 
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Goro

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Life happens. While I have a colleague who definitely favors people who graduate in 4 years, we have to smack them back into reality if we like the candidate.


What do medical schools think of students who take more than 4-5 years to graduate? I changed my major a couple times and it took me 7.5 years to graduate.
 
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AlteredScale

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Again, What Im trying to say is, get an A in the retake. Not get a C.
Id prefer if you leave Goro out of this discussion, hes a chill person, but I'd prefer not to have his advice as its usually based only on his school.

If you get an A on the retake obv it's fine. What I'm wondering is what you're getting at with assuming it'll be fine having 8 W's with all A's. Will it be looked upon the same with someone who got A's the first time around in those same courses? No. They'll wonder why unless you have some story to state that you had a rough start and dropped all your courses.

I'm just trying to give sound advice. Just because your friend got all A's on 10 W's and got accepted doesn't mean you should do the same to protect your GPA ad assume you'll get an acceptance as well. I wouldn't take a W over a B or B+ especially in a hard science course.
 

LizzyM

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Protecting the GPA by taking W and retaking the course is not considered a good strategy by adcoms. How are you going to perform in medical school where you see the material once and have the exam? Not doing well or needing to withdraw means leaving until the same time the following year and repeating the material.

If there is a significant story (e.g. someone I know IRL dropped all his classes after a serious injury, returned the next semester, required emergency surgery related to the previous injury, suffered complications and dropped another entire semester then went on to make a full recovery) then the Ws might make sense but otherwise it suggests that you aren't as strong academically as someone who can take a full load and see things through.
 
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kingkapoor

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If you get an A on the retake obv it's fine. What I'm wondering is what you're getting at with assuming it'll be fine having 8 W's with all A's. Will it be looked upon the same with someone who got A's the first time around in those same courses? No. They'll wonder why unless you have some story to state that you had a rough start and dropped all your courses.

I'm just trying to give sound advice. Just because your friend got all A's on 10 W's and got accepted doesn't mean you should do the same to protect your GPA ad assume you'll get an acceptance as well. I wouldn't take a W over a B or B+ especially in a hard science course.

Well here's my take on it, by the way I graduated so there Isn't much of me adding any more W's to my transcript. I don't go to UC Berkeley but its known as a school horrendously tormenting students by giving them super low grades with their curve scales even though their actual points arent far off. I believe the class average usually gets a C+ curve. And standard deviations and such dictate the grades from there on out. My school does the same thing, to a worse standard than Cal, and it isnt even recognized outside of my state. I generally -maintained the top 10-20% of my classes and I got B's and B+'s for those classes. Which gives me this junk GPA, even though the actual percentage in grade difference was like 1% or less in most cases to the next guy higher than me.

I have an ex girlfriend, who went to a no-name school in MA and Im not trying to sound conceited but she is no where near the type of student to do well. I haven't even taken psychology or sociology and shes a psych major and I scored higher than her on the most recent MCAT. Basically her school hands out A's.

Now to the point, when someone applies to medical schools, and she has a 3.95 GPA , and I have a 3.4, lets put mine a little lower 3.3. Shes probably almost guaranteed to get into at least one DO school out there just for grades alone. She just needs a mediocre MCAT score and to throw in some random bunch of EC's and shell probably get in at least one place.

On the other hand Im struggling to get an interview even at low tier DO schools. In my scenario and luck I would rather just have withdrawn from those 8 courses, retaken them knowing every detail, scored 100% on each exam and gotten an A.
 

kingkapoor

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Protecting the GPA by taking W and retaking the course is not considered a good strategy by adcoms. How are you going to perform in medical school where you see the material once and have the exam? Not doing well or needing to withdraw means leaving until the same time the following year and repeating the material.

If there is a significant story (e.g. someone I know IRL dropped all his classes after a serious injury, returned the next semester, required emergency surgery related to the previous injury, suffered were complications and dropped another entire semester then went on to make a full recovery) then the Ws might make sense but otherwise it suggests that you aren't as strong academically as someone who can take a full load and see things through.

But here's my question, how likely, are you guys to reject someone with a 3.95 GPA and 8 withdraws? And a decent lets say 509~30 MCAT, which doesnt seem too difficult to achieve if someone spends 6-8 months studying for it. I guess you could say all these things about how likely it is for them to fail medical school, although I know more than for a fact the entirety of physics, general chemistry, and other science courses as well as non related subjects (friend dropped electrical engineering circuit theory, etc) do not reflect on his ability to do well in medical school.

Furthermore, for a lower tier DO School, I would imagine that high GPA is tempting to admit since it would increase their overall GPA greatly.

Finally like I mentioned to the other person, every school is different. I am currently retaking classes at Stanford, to change my B- to an A and a C+ to an A (hopefully), and ill tell you that Stanford is 20X easier than my school as far as the classes go. And my school is a semi no-name institution. So dropping a class at one school means alot different than dropping a class at another school
 

LizzyM

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A 3.95 with 8 withdraws and a MCAT of 509 would be rejected pre-interview; but my school is notoriously tough top 20 MD school. (I didn't realize this was the pre-osteo forum... someone tagged me.)

If you really are smart, you'd be applying with a 3.3 and a 5.19. The adcoms know which schools have grade deflation and the MCAT confirms that the applicant is top notch.
 
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kingkapoor

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A 3.95 with 8 withdraws and a MCAT of 509 would be rejected pre-interview; but my school is notoriously tough top 20 MD school. (I didn't realize this was the pre-osteo forum... someone tagged me.)

If you really are smart, you'd be applying with a 3.3 and a 5.19. The adcoms know which schools have grade deflation and the MCAT confirms that the applicant is top notch.

Is it true? About the high MCAT? Because I have family members with 38 MCATS and 3.85 gpas, from already known to be difficult schools (UCLA, Princeton), excellent interviewers etc, and they could only secure 1 or 2 MD interviews of the entire application pool (applied to all the schools). Anyway I digress

Yeah Im referring to Osteopathic Medical Schools and I think the upper tier schools usually have GPA averages of around 3.7 and 31'ish MCATs.
 

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Is it true? About the high MCAT? Because I have family members with 38 MCATS and 3.85 gpas, from already known to be difficult schools (UCLA, Princeton), excellent interviewers etc, and they could only secure 1 or 2 MD interviews of the entire application pool (applied to all the schools). Anyway I digress

Yeah Im referring to Osteopathic Medical Schools and I think the upper tier schools usually have GPA averages of around 3.7 and 31'ish MCATs.

Look, this is simple. Don't do withdraws unless you absolutely have to. If you do well on your MCAT, it is more likely that your withdraws will be overlooked. However, if you basically have the same MCAT and GPA as everyone else but you had 8 withdraws, you're going to look bad. Why should a school take you when they have other applicants who have the same stats who only had to go through it once?

As an adcom, once you start seeing all these withdraws, you start to wonder if you'll do the same while in medical school, when classes are much harder than college. Medical schools don't want you to graduate in 8 years. They want you to graduate in 4. You better have a good story for taking so long to get a degree.
 
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kingkapoor

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Look, this is simple. Don't do withdraws unless you absolutely have to. If you do well on your MCAT, it is more likely that your withdraws will be overlooked. However, if you basically have the same MCAT and GPA as everyone else but you had 8 withdraws, you're going to look bad. Why should a school take you when they have other applicants who have the same stats who only had to go through it once?

As an adcom, once you start seeing all these withdraws, you start to wonder if you'll do the same while in medical school, when classes are much harder than college.

I understand what youre saying, but I havent had any luck with my current GPA either, and if I had a 3.9 GPA, even with 8 withdraws, I am doubtful I would be rejected at all 30 schools.
 

mathnerd88

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I understand what youre saying, but I havent had any luck with my current GPA either, and if I had a 3.9 GPA, even with 8 withdraws, I am doubtful I would be rejected at all 30 schools.

That's why your MCAT will be extremely important. If you do poorly on your MCAT, adcoms will think you just padded your GPA with all these withdraws. You might get accepted into the newer/mid-tier schools though. The more established DO schools would rather pick that 3.7 GPA, 30 MCAT applicant with 0 withdraws/retakes over a 3.9 GPA, 27 MCAT with 8 withdraws.

The MCAT can easily tell the adcoms how difficult the school actually is. I would be more wary of someone who had a 3.9 GPA with a 25 MCAT. I would rather believe that the applicant who had a 3.2 GPA and a 30+ MCAT just took very difficult classes and had a harder time in his/her major.

For example, BCOM had this policy where if you used more than 3 retakes/withdraws, you are automatically rejected. I know of someone who called admissions at BCOM is this is what they said.
 
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gonnif

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But here's my question, how likely, are you guys to reject someone with a 3.95 GPA and 8 withdraws? And a decent lets say 509~30 MCAT, which doesnt seem too difficult to achieve if someone spends 6-8 months studying for it. I guess you could say all these things about how likely it is for them to fail medical school, although I know more than for a fact the entirety of physics, general chemistry, and other science courses as well as non related subjects (friend dropped electrical engineering circuit theory, etc) do not reflect on his ability to do well in medical school.

Furthermore, for a lower tier DO School, I would imagine that high GPA is tempting to admit since it would increase their overall GPA greatly.

Finally like I mentioned to the other person, every school is different. I am currently retaking classes at Stanford, to change my B- to an A and a C+ to an A (hopefully), and ill tell you that Stanford is 20X easier than my school as far as the classes go. And my school is a semi no-name institution. So dropping a class at one school means alot different than dropping a class at another school

and here is my question: how many applications from well qualified students, which means GPAs of 3.75, without W's do you think a school will receive? And how much scrutiny and suspicion do you think an applicant with a 3.95 and 8 Ws? Most processing systems, whether manual or automated, will note Ws and score them with some fraction of a negative point to them followed by points/note for reasons for Ws. Typically 1 or 2 do not generate scrutiny either at initial screening, full review, or interview. Someone with 8 Ws, no matter GPA, would raise flags expecting some large mitigating circumstance such as illness, family issue, etc. Someone who has 8 Ws spread across their record, especially when they are in difficult courses, may be seen for exactly what it is: an applicant who thought he/she could game the system. DO schools will wonder both at the high GPA and Ws and figure you are just looking for a safety. You will be seen for what was indeed the first lesson I was taught in reviewing applications some 30+years: an arrogant egotist. Most schools I have worked on processing with would, at the very least, lower any interview priority for you if not simply reject you on full review screening prior to II.
 
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and here is my question: how many applications from well qualified students, which means GPAs of 3.75, without W's do you think a school will receive? And how much scrutiny and suspicion do you think an applicant with a 3.95 and 8 Ws? Most processing systems, whether manual or automated, will note Ws and score them with some fraction of a negative point to them followed by points/note for reasons for Ws. Typically 1 or 2 do not generate scrutiny either at initial screening, full review, or interview. Someone with 8 Ws, no matter GPA, would raise flags expecting some large mitigating circumstance such as illness, family issue, etc. Someone who has 8 Ws spread across their record, especially when they are in difficult courses, may be seen for exactly what it is: an applicant who thought he/she could game the system. DO schools will wonder both at the high GPA and Ws and figure you are just looking for a safety. You will be seen for what was indeed the first lesson I was taught in reviewing applications some 30+years: an arrogant egotist. Most schools I have worked on processing with would, at the very least, lower any interview priority for you if not simply reject you on full review screening prior to II.

Did you work for an MD or a DO school?

Doesnt almost everyone have some kind of excuse? Again I'm not saying this is what I would do Im just asking. Almost all my friends in college had a least 1 or 2 deaths in the family (it happens, this is the age for many, when grandparents and others may pass away). I had two during a my college career, my mother and my grandfather, and it seems DO schools didnt care much seeing I was rejected with the given stats I had. As the person above me said, do you really think if I had a 3.9 and 26 MCAT schools like LECOM, VCOM, and the other mid-low tier DO schools would reject me?
 

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That's why your MCAT will be extremely important. If you do poorly on your MCAT, adcoms will think you just padded your GPA with all these withdraws. You might get accepted into the newer/mid-tier schools though. The more established DO schools would rather pick that 3.7 GPA, 30 MCAT applicant with 0 withdraws/retakes over a 3.9 GPA, 27 MCAT with 8 withdraws.

The MCAT can easily tell the adcoms how difficult the school actually is. I would be more wary of someone who had a 3.9 GPA with a 25 MCAT. I would rather believe that the applicant who had a 3.2 GPA and a 30+ MCAT just took very difficult classes and had a harder time in his/her major.

For example, BCOM had this policy where if you used more than 3 retakes/withdraws, you are automatically rejected. I know of someone who called admissions at BCOM is this is what they said.

I just need A school to accept me, which isn't happening. If I had a 3.9 gpa, I would find it hard to believe low tier DO schools would say no. I cant even get an interview from low tier schools with my current stats. Doing well on the new MCAT isnt a joke anymore either though. The old MCAT catered to people of all majors since the knowledge base was smaller . Now its literally almost a requirement to take various upper divs if you want to do well (I would take histology, and biochem),
 

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I just need A school to accept me, which isn't happening. If I had a 3.9 gpa, I would find it hard to believe low tier DO schools would say no. I cant even get an interview from low tier schools with my current stats. Doing well on the new MCAT isnt a joke anymore either though. The old MCAT catered to people of all majors since the knowledge base was smaller . Now its literally almost a requirement to take various upper divs if you want to do well (I would take histology, and biochem),

Like I said earlier in another thread, perhaps there's something in your application that adcoms didn't like. Did you have a lot of withdraws/repeats? Did you send me your PS yet?

Also, your sGPA is very low. 3.1-3.2 will not really get much love from adcoms.
 

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Like I said earlier in another thread, perhaps there's something in your application that adcoms didn't like. Did you have a lot of withdraws/repeats? Did you send me your PS yet?

Also, your sGPA is very low. 3.1-3.2 will not really get much love from adcoms.

2 withdraws, one that DO schools are not aware of yet, I withdrew because my internship earlier started and I had to miss all my classes. Other W was in upper div physics E&M, retook and got a B+. Not much of an excuse for that one, I just had too heavy of a schedule. 1 retake, electrical engineering. That's about it.

Pretty much what I said, gpa is low, my fault for chosing this school, my fault for taking higher level physics and chemistry and pulling off top 11% or better in all of those classes and ending up with B+ or worse. I wish I took withdraws and got a 4.0 sGPA.
 

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Did you work for an MD or a DO school?

Doesnt almost everyone have some kind of excuse? Again I'm not saying this is what I would do Im just asking. Almost all my friends in college had a least 1 or 2 deaths in the family (it happens, this is the age for many, when grandparents and others may pass away). I had two during a my college career, my mother and my grandfather, and it seems DO schools didnt care much seeing I was rejected with the given stats I had. As the person above me said, do you really think if I had a 3.9 and 26 MCAT schools like LECOM, VCOM, and the other mid-low tier DO schools would reject me?

My background is much different and much broader than most adcoms on here as I provided development of admissions process and automation to both schools and societies for the past 20 years. That has had me either reviewing or deeply embedded in the admissions process at over 40 institutions and associations including MD, DO, DPM, and application services for these schools. From what I have read so far, they wouldnt reject you for your MCAT or GPA but the arrogance and ego that you have that would undoubtedly come thru any application you submit.
 
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kingkapoor

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My background is much different and much broader than most adcoms on here as I provided development of admissions process and automation to both schools and societies for the past 20 years. That has had me either reviewing or deeply embedded in the admissions process at over 40 institutions and associations including MD, DO, DPM, and application services for these schools. From what I have read so far, they wouldnt reject you for your MCAT or GPA but the arrogance and ego that you have that would undoubtedly come thru any application you submit.


Sounds good, my questioning is seen as arrogance and ego, well I want to become a leader some day, so Im on the right track. Thanks for the compliments.
 

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Sounds good, my questioning is seen as arrogance and ego, well I want to become a leader some day, so Im on the right track. Thanks for the compliments.

No one is entitled to an acceptance, MD or DO. You assume that "low and mid tier" DO schools are waiting for bottom of the barrel students when in reality there are still way more applicants to seats.

This assumption that Mcat and gpa are the only things that matter and no matter how you get those grades (even if it means getting 5-6 W's on purpose with no true reason besides grade protection) is not a mindset of "a leader" so I'm not sure what was meant by that.


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kingkapoor

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No one is entitled to an acceptance, MD or DO. You assume that "low and mid tier" DO schools are waiting for bottom of the barrel students when in reality there are still way more applicants to seats.

This assumption that Mcat and gpa are the only things that matter and no matter how you get those grades (even if it means getting 5-6 W's on purpose with no true reason besides grade protection) is not a mindset of "a leader" so I'm not sure what was meant by that.


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I'm not assuming anything. I realize you guys want to call me arrogant and please do so. Yet you say I "assume" low- mid tier students are waiting on the bottom of the barrel. I am only going based on what people told me. And what online stats from the schools themselves say. "Average GPA 3.4, average MCAT 24 (although no school has a 24 MCAT that I know of anymore).

I mean answer my question, is a DO school with lower tier stats going to reject a student with 8 W's but a 3.9 GPA and a decent MCAT? Some may, but not all will. But the student who is consistently getting C's in courses which are frankly unrelated to medicine, is still going to get burned for it, and there wont be any excuse in the world to make up for it.
And all I was trying to say is people can make any excuse for their W's that fit under that category (Except maybe medical). I'm sure my friend who got in made some excuse about his great uncle Santa Claus who was very dear to him passed away and hence he had to drop classes to attend his funeral in Hawaii or something.
I am just making inferences based on what I see, I had a few schools where I did meet their stat requirements and after hefty fees I could not even get the courtesy of a rejection letter. Why should I believe they are actually going to spend the time looking through the 60+ courses on my transcript and analyzing them when they have a large application pool to "Go through" as you said yourself.

Again I'm not the culprit here, I literally had 2 W's for pretty valid reasons and did relatively well in both my retakes. I'm just retelling what Ive seen, what I believe, and why I believe so. And for that reason I am being called arrogant, even though Im not making conclusions, I am asking questions.

The mind set of a leader is questioning the way things are done, seeing how things can be improved, and coming up with ways how to do it. That is what Im doing.
 

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I mean answer my question, is a DO school with lower tier stats going to reject a student with 8 W's but a 3.9 GPA and a decent MCAT? Some may, but not all will. But the student who is consistently getting C's in courses which are frankly unrelated to medicine, is still going to get burned for it, and there wont be any excuse in the world to make up for it.

Someone with a 3.9 GPA with 8 W's with a REASONABLE reason for having that many W's will be considered. Considered means perhaps considered for admission or perhaps considered for an interview. Perhaps if they are lucky they'll ignore the applicant who had a 3.9 GPA without any W's and a decent MCAT and give the other applicant a chance.

The student getting C's will probably be rejected if they didn't turn it around by senior year or during a post-bac/SMP.

And all I was trying to say is people can make any excuse for their W's that fit under that category (Except maybe medical). I'm sure my friend who got in made some excuse about his great uncle Santa Claus who was very dear to him passed away and hence he had to drop classes to attend his funeral in Hawaii or something.

I understand what you're saying and hell, if you want to blatantly lie in your application about your W's then do it. Make up three, four lies if you want. But if it is found out (and there are ways schools can find out whether it's medical or not) you are at risk of blowing your whole career away because you lied. The fact that you are even considering coming up with lies or stories for the W's just because your friend got accepted and did the same (and god help him that no one finds out) isn't suggested. That's it.
I am just making inferences based on what I see, I had a few schools where I did meet their stat requirements and after hefty fees I could not even get the courtesy of a rejection letter. Why should I believe they are actually going to spend the time looking through the 60+ courses on my transcript and analyzing them when they have a large application pool to "Go through" as you said yourself.

You did not receive a rejection letter because they probably put your application in a hold pile for consideration later. They didn't outright reject because they though "perhaps this applicant will have something, but we have better applicants we want to bring in now". They go through every application and mores if you did not receive a rejection right away after their primary screen which cuts applicants based on academic stats. But believe what you will.

If you truly believe that AdCom, admissions screeners, and medical schools MD/DO are not doing their job and are outright lying in regards to the application cycle, you can always take legal action agains AACOMAS and/or AMCAS.

I don't think you're a culprit and I do know going through this process more than once sucks, hard.
 

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Someone with a 3.9 GPA with 8 W's with a REASONABLE reason for having that many W's will be considered. Considered means perhaps considered for admission or perhaps considered for an interview. Perhaps if they are lucky they'll ignore the applicant who had a 3.9 GPA without any W's and a decent MCAT and give the other applicant a chance.

The student getting C's will probably be rejected if they didn't turn it around by senior year or during a post-bac/SMP.



I understand what you're saying and hell, if you want to blatantly lie in your application about your W's then do it. Make up three, four lies if you want. But if it is found out (and there are ways schools can find out whether it's medical or not) you are at risk of blowing your whole career away because you lied. The fact that you are even considering coming up with lies or stories for the W's just because your friend got accepted and did the same (and god help him that no one finds out) isn't suggested. That's it.


You did not receive a rejection letter because they probably put your application in a hold pile for consideration later. They didn't outright reject because they though "perhaps this applicant will have something, but we have better applicants we want to bring in now". They go through every application and mores if you did not receive a rejection right away after their primary screen which cuts applicants based on academic stats. But believe what you will.

If you truly believe that AdCom, admissions screeners, and medical schools MD/DO are not doing their job and are outright lying in regards to the application cycle, you can always take legal action agains AACOMAS and/or AMCAS.

I don't think you're a culprit and I do know going through this process more than once sucks, hard.

Im not sure how to quote subsections so Ill try to get the gist of it. I feel like you understood what I am trying to get at. I am just asking questions and trying to understand how the ad process works because currently the way it went last cycle, did not make sense.

1. Yes a 3.9 without W's is going to be taken over a 3.9 with W's but if the school's average GPA is 3.4 or so, wouldn't they be willing to take any 3.9/ decent MCAT who isn't a lunatic? And in that case take all the 3.9's? Is there even a supply of that many 3.9's to meet all the low tier DO schools spots? I like DO more than MD because of their curriculum, but I would imagine a large majority of the people with 3.9 gpas and 30+ MCATS are aiming for MD programs and the few that get rejected will be looking at top tier DO schools. I may be wrong but thats just what I thought.
2. Glad you understand, I don't want to lie and I don't have anything to lie about Im just asking, couldn't anyone make up a fake family death? Like I said probably not medical because that can be verified, but is there anyway for Adcoms to verify my great uncle King Arthur died in Great Britain during the semester(Im using troll names to try to get you to the point) and I had to miss finals to go his funeral? My mother sincerely did die, I was prepared to show the death certificate if I ever was asked, but no one really verified it hence I didn't need to (so Im not lying about that, if thats what you thought) . In those classes during that semester I got a straight line of B+'s even though I was rank 3 in a class of 40, rank 5 in a class of 50 , the other two grades were A's. At that time could I have dropped the classes, gotten A's and technically had a valid excuse? I didnt drop them because I felt I had the ability to separate academics and family life (and I sort of did, my teachers are just strict in grading), but considering that our schools exams are the same from year to year, it would be almost a no-brainer to get A's in those courses
3. I dont know which school truly read the applications, I don't know which schools don't read them. I do know a few schools that do give secondaries to almost anyone with a pulse, I wont mention the name, but I have an uncle at that school (MD), and he works on the ad-com and mentioned they give secondaries to everyone to generate revenue to fund the application review process for the worthy students. It's a mid tier MD school. As far as taking legal action against AACOMAS/AMCAS, I don't have any conclusions, although as I mentioned I have my doubts, if a school cant even send me a rejection letter (Its mid July now, still no rejection letter from 4 schools), how can I feel they truly read my app at all( especially when we have adcoms on here saying a computer does infact screen people for many schools and steps along the process)? And on the other hand for schools (I am trying to bite my tongue as hard as I can to not mention their names on the forum), with low required stats (2.7 and 24 MCAT), cant even offer a secondary. I dont have the money to pay a lawyer 500 bucks an hour to try to investigate and sue these institutions and as we both know if I actually did theoretically catch "Hogwarts school of medicine" for this practice, Ill never get into another school,ever. And my goal is to become a doctor. And frankly suing them gains me nothing, I want an acceptance, not money.
 
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mathnerd88

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Im not sure how to quote subsections so Ill try to get the gist of it. I feel like you understood what I am trying to get at. I am just asking questions and trying to understand how the ad process works because currently the way it went last cycle, did not make sense.

1. Yes a 3.9 without W's is going to be taken over a 3.9 with W's but if the school's average GPA is 3.4 or so, wouldn't they be willing to take any 3.9/ decent MCAT who isn't a lunatic? And in that case take all the 3.9's? Is there even a supply of that many 3.9's to meet all the low tier DO schools spots? I like DO more than MD because of their curriculum, but I would imagine a large majority of the people with 3.9 gpas and 30+ MCATS are aiming for MD programs and the few that get rejected will be looking at top tier DO schools. I may be wrong but thats just what I thought.
2. Glad you understand, I don't want to lie and I don't have anything to lie about Im just asking, couldn't anyone make up a fake family death? Like I said probably not medical because that can be verified, but is there anyway for Adcoms to verify my great uncle King Arthur died in Great Britain during the semester(Im using troll names to try to get you to the point) and I had to miss finals to go his funeral? My mother sincerely did die, I was prepared to show the death certificate if I ever was asked, but no one really verified it hence I didn't need to (so Im not lying about that, if thats what you thought) . In those classes during that semester I got a straight line of B+'s even though I was rank 3 in a class of 40, rank 5 in a class of 50 , the other two grades were A's. At that time could I have dropped the classes, gotten A's and technically had a valid excuse? I didnt drop them because I felt I had the ability to separate academics and family life (and I sort of did, my teachers are just strict in grading), but considering that our schools exams are the same from year to year, it would be almost a no-brainer to get A's in those courses
3. I dont know which school truly read the applications, I don't know which schools don't read them. I do know a few schools that do give secondaries to almost anyone with a pulse, I wont mention the name, but I have an uncle at that school (MD), and he works on the ad-com and mentioned they give secondaries to everyone to generate revenue to fund the application review process for the worthy students. It's a mid tier MD school. As far as taking legal action against AACOMAS/AMCAS, I don't have any conclusions, although as I mentioned I have my doubts, if a school cant even send me a rejection letter (Its mid July now, still no rejection letter from 4 schools), how can I feel they truly read my app at all( especially when we have adcoms on here saying a computer does infact screen people for many schools and steps along the process)? And on the other hand for schools (I am trying to bite my tongue as hard as I can to not mention their names on the forum), with low required stats (2.7 and 24 MCAT), cant even offer a secondary. I dont have the money to pay a lawyer 500 bucks an hour to try to investigate and sue these institutions and as we both know if I actually did theoretically catch "Hogwarts school of medicine" for this practice, Ill never get into another school,ever. And my goal is to become a doctor. And frankly suing them gains me nothing, I want an acceptance, not money.

1. Medical school admissions is a crapshoot process. There are many people who were rejected from my school with even 3.9+, 30+ MCAT. I know some admissions really place a huge component of your acceptance based on your interview. If you can't show that you have compassion, wanting to help others, etc, you would have a hard time getting accepted. Med school admissions is not all about stats, especially the mission oriented ones. The newer schools actually rejected me without a II (because I believe I didn't fit their mission,) while the top-tier schools gave me interviews. I also had high stats, much higher than the newer schools' averages. In fact, it was harder for me to get an acceptance at the newer schools than the older and mid-tier ones. Only 1 gave me the acceptance out of 6 newer schools I applied to.

2. The best thing for you, and pretty much all pre-meds, is to try to stop comparing yourself to others. I know this is hard, and people may really lie about everything. What if scenarios won't really get anyone anywhere. I'm personally struggling with this as a summer medical student.

3. All, if not most schools, read through every application that can pass prescreening. Yes, your uncle is right that some schools will just send secondaries to everybody to generate revenue, but that's not to say the schools won't read your application before you're granted that II. You have to understand that you need to meet their minimum requirements before they will even look at your application. If you don't, they'll just put you in the autoreject pile through the computer. @Goro was right about the minimum and effective floors.
 
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Look, this is really simple: someone with 8 W's scattered all over the transcript is screaming "I'M PROTECTING MY GPA!" And the ability to do well in difficult courses assures us that you are likely to handle medical school. And multiple clinicians and med students tell me that physics is indeed useful in Medicine.

But here's my question, how likely, are you guys to reject someone with a 3.95 GPA and 8 withdraws? And a decent lets say 509~30 MCAT, which doesnt seem too difficult to achieve if someone spends 6-8 months studying for it. I guess you could say all these things about how likely it is for them to fail medical school, although I know more than for a fact the entirety of physics, general chemistry, and other science courses as well as non related subjects (friend dropped electrical engineering circuit theory, etc) do not reflect on his ability to do well in medical school.

Even LUCOM doesn't think this way. Med schools want people who can handle the curriculum
Furthermore, for a lower tier DO School, I would imagine that high GPA is tempting to admit since it would increase their overall GPA greatly.

Your judgement will be questioned in my Adcom meetings for retaking a B-. This is behavior contrary to self-interest. And an FYI. I received a PM recently who was told my CCOM that they didn't merit an interview, yet s/he was accepted by Tulane!


Finally like I mentioned to the other person, every school is different. I am currently retaking classes at Stanford, to change my B- to an A and a C+ to an A (hopefully), and ill tell you that Stanford is 20X easier than my school as far as the classes go. And my school is a semi no-name institution. So dropping a class at one school means alot different than dropping a class at another school[/QUOTE]
 

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Look, this is really simple: someone with 8 W's scattered all over the transcript is screaming "I'M PROTECTING MY GPA!" And the ability to do well in difficult courses assures us that you are likely to handle medical school. And multiple clinicians and med students tell me that physics is indeed useful in Medicine.

Your judgement will be questioned in my Adcom meetings for retaking a B-. This is behavior contrary to self-interest. And an FYI. I received a PM recently who was told my CCOM that they didn't merit an interview, yet s/he was accepted by Tulane!
[/QUOTE]

I believe I have 7 W's on my transcript from my first university. I had my first 2 W's freshmen year (one is in a theater class and the other was the 2nd part of biology). The next four withdraws occurred in my sophomore year ( all four was from the 2nd part of chemistry. Lecture and lab are separate courses. No excuse I had a very difficult time with these classes). I withdrew from chemistry in a regular semester and I withdrew again in a maymester (I don't know why the heck I though that was a smart idea to take that kind of course in a condensed format...stupid). My last withdrawal was in an upper level ecology course in my Junior year (I took on way too much that semester and my gpa suffered a lot). All of this was 4 years ago. I tried to create some distance from my awful mistakes before I began my post-bac this summer. How can I completely redefine myself? (I know I must destroy my MCAT and kill my post-bac.) I need guidance and I am all ears. I don't care if they are blunt/harsh/realistic just hand it over...please and thank you.
 

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Just do well and show the you of now isn't the you of then.



I believe I have 7 W's on my transcript from my first university. I had my first 2 W's freshmen year (one is in a theater class and the other was the 2nd part of biology). The next four withdraws occurred in my sophomore year ( all four was from the 2nd part of chemistry. Lecture and lab are separate courses. No excuse I had a very difficult time with these classes). I withdrew from chemistry in a regular semester and I withdrew again in a maymester (I don't know why the heck I though that was a smart idea to take that kind of course in a condensed format...stupid). My last withdrawal was in an upper level ecology course in my Junior year (I took on way too much that semester and my gpa suffered a lot). All of this was 4 years ago. I tried to create some distance from my awful mistakes before I began my post-bac this summer. How can I completely redefine myself? (I know I must destroy my MCAT and kill my post-bac.) I need guidance and I am all ears. I don't care if they are blunt/harsh/realistic just hand it over...please and thank you.[/QUOTE]
 
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kingkapoor

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Look, this is really simple: someone with 8 W's scattered all over the transcript is screaming "I'M PROTECTING MY GPA!" And the ability to do well in difficult courses assures us that you are likely to handle medical school. And multiple clinicians and med students tell me that physics is indeed useful in Medicine.

But here's my question, how likely, are you guys to reject someone with a 3.95 GPA and 8 withdraws? And a decent lets say 509~30 MCAT, which doesnt seem too difficult to achieve if someone spends 6-8 months studying for it. I guess you could say all these things about how likely it is for them to fail medical school, although I know more than for a fact the entirety of physics, general chemistry, and other science courses as well as non related subjects (friend dropped electrical engineering circuit theory, etc) do not reflect on his ability to do well in medical school.

Even LUCOM doesn't think this way. Med schools want people who can handle the curriculum
Furthermore, for a lower tier DO School, I would imagine that high GPA is tempting to admit since it would increase their overall GPA greatly.

Your judgement will be questioned in my Adcom meetings for retaking a B-. This is behavior contrary to self-interest. And an FYI. I received a PM recently who was told my CCOM that they didn't merit an interview, yet s/he was accepted by Tulane!


Finally like I mentioned to the other person, every school is different. I am currently retaking classes at Stanford, to change my B- to an A and a C+ to an A (hopefully), and ill tell you that Stanford is 20X easier than my school as far as the classes go. And my school is a semi no-name institution. So dropping a class at one school means alot different than dropping a class at another school
[/QUOTE]


Cant quote so

1. Understood about protecting GPA. I do want to emphasize though physics is not super useful in medicine. Yes a basic physics course on three segments may be useful , I can see that from my post bacc courses which are = semester 1 courses at most med schools. The fundamentals may be useful, but the entirety of the course and being able to calculate the current passing through a ginormous circuit question, or the gravitational forces between planets, not so necessary.

2. Is GPA even representative of handling the medical school curriculum anymore? I doubt it. Its why many students get through the Caribbean Islands, why students were able to get into low tier DO schools with 23 MCATS (a few years back), and why a whole variety of students get into med schools. Sure there might be a reasonable cutoff for GPA, but now competition matters more than if students can handle the curriculum right

3. I hear what youre saying about the B-, but with my current sGPA between a 3.1 and 3.2, I am not getting in any luck anywhere. It seems like you adcom for a school which thoroughly reads through its applicant's profiles. If a school truly puts that much time into my application I think there will be other more important things in my application worthwhile considering than retaking a b- ( I am also re-taking it to help me prepare for the new MCAT since my school's lab course was substandard). Bottom line is if a school spends that much time on my application I am thankful. Because the way last years cycle went, I felt many schools just computer filtered me into the junk/pending pile and left it there.
 

Goro

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You haven't even taken a single med school class, and you're an expert already? Try listening to actual med students and doctors:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/why-is-physics-a-requirement.1210576/#post-17925853

1. Understood about protecting GPA. I do want to emphasize though physics is not super useful in medicine. Yes a basic physics course on three segments may be useful , I can see that from my post bacc courses which are = semester 1 courses at most med schools. The fundamentals may be useful, but the entirety of the course and being able to calculate the current passing through a ginormous circuit question, or the gravitational forces between planets, not so necessary.

Yes, and we have years of data to back this up. 50% of Carib students fail out, so please don't use that as an example of med student success. The simple matter is with thousands of applicants (my school gets 6000 apps for ~100 seats; Drexel gets ~14000), you have to screen by some criteria.

2. Is GPA even representative of handling the medical school curriculum anymore? I doubt it. Its why many students get through the Caribbean Islands, why students were able to get into low tier DO schools with 23 MCATS (a few years back), and why a whole variety of students get into med schools. Sure there might be a reasonable cutoff for GPA, but now competition matters more than if students can handle the curriculum right

Your retaking a B- calls your judgment into question. As others have pointed out, your GPA alone isn't an issue for getting IIs. I'm getting the sense that all you can think of is that your stats are the issue.

Either your target list is the issue, or it's the rest of your app. Just as an example, if you haven't shadowed a DO, find one to shadow and write you an LOR. Don't merely vomit up what you know about Osteopathy from your reading of Wiki.

3. I hear what youre saying about the B-, but with my current sGPA between a 3.1 and 3.2, I am not getting in any luck anywhere. It seems like you adcom for a school which thoroughly reads through its applicant's profiles. If a school truly puts that much time into my application I think there will be other more important things in my application worthwhile considering than retaking a b- ( I am also re-taking it to help me prepare for the new MCAT since my school's lab course was substandard). Bottom line is if a school spends that much time on my application I am thankful. Because the way last years cycle went, I felt many schools just computer filtered me into the junk/pending pile and left it there.
 
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kingkapoor

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You haven't even taken a single med school class, and you're an expert already? Try listening to actual med students and doctors:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/why-is-physics-a-requirement.1210576/#post-17925853

1. Understood about protecting GPA. I do want to emphasize though physics is not super useful in medicine. Yes a basic physics course on three segments may be useful , I can see that from my post bacc courses which are = semester 1 courses at most med schools. The fundamentals may be useful, but the entirety of the course and being able to calculate the current passing through a ginormous circuit question, or the gravitational forces between planets, not so necessary.

Yes, and we have years of data to back this up. 50% of Carib students fail out, so please don't use that as an example of med student success. The simple matter is with thousands of applicants (my school gets 6000 apps for ~100 seats; Drexel gets ~14000), you have to screen by some criteria.

2. Is GPA even representative of handling the medical school curriculum anymore? I doubt it. Its why many students get through the Caribbean Islands, why students were able to get into low tier DO schools with 23 MCATS (a few years back), and why a whole variety of students get into med schools. Sure there might be a reasonable cutoff for GPA, but now competition matters more than if students can handle the curriculum right

Your retaking a B- calls your judgment into question. As others have pointed out, your GPA alone isn't an issue for getting IIs. I'm getting the sense that all you can think of is that your stats are the issue.

Either your target list is the issue, or it's the rest of your app. Just as an example, if you haven't shadowed a DO, find one to shadow and write you an LOR. Don't merely vomit up what you know about Osteopathy from your reading of Wiki.

3. I hear what youre saying about the B-, but with my current sGPA between a 3.1 and 3.2, I am not getting in any luck anywhere. It seems like you adcom for a school which thoroughly reads through its applicant's profiles. If a school truly puts that much time into my application I think there will be other more important things in my application worthwhile considering than retaking a b- ( I am also re-taking it to help me prepare for the new MCAT since my school's lab course was substandard). Bottom line is if a school spends that much time on my application I am thankful. Because the way last years cycle went, I felt many schools just computer filtered me into the junk/pending pile and left it there.

1st of Goro, you're a really salty guy, I'm trying to be as composed on here as I can, which is why I asked the person far above to leave you out of the topic.

1. Believe me I have taken 4. Anatomy, Biochemistry, Embryology, and Histology, and ended up with an 85% average. Ive checked out the syllabus of most schools. And I KNOW physics in and out ( I am an engineer) . I know what level of physics is on the MCAT, and I know how exactly and what degree is applied to medicine. Even the link you posted shows people are just attesting to the thought process by physics and the very basic concepts are what is required, not physics in its entirety, and not to the level physics and engineering majors are required to take it. 50% of Caribbean students fail out because they take anyone with a pulse even if they have a 2.0 GPA, but the other 50 % who make it through prove that just because someone got a 3.0 GPA in undergrad doesn't mean they aren't fit for medical school.

2. If retaking a class after explaining I wanted to revise that topic for the MCAT as well as get a better grasp on the LAB materials that my school excluded isn't enough of an explanation then please, throw my application out of your school's pile. I'm sure you already know who I am. My target list covered all the lower and mid tier do schools last year with the exception of Touro Ca, this year I applied to all the schools. I shadowed a DO and got a very positive rec letter, last year, it did not mean anything to my app. I don't vomit what I know about osteopathy from a wiki article, in fact I only mention it in parts where I want to use osteopathy-in my passion for leading emerging medical technology.

I really hope you, and the other moderators keep a more open mind on these forums, the way we talk on here is different than how we are going to interview. These forums are designed for people to ask questions and actually find out what factors affect them, without being judged. If somebody had a perfect story, perfect grades, and perfect MCAT score I highly doubt they will be sitting on these forums asking questions. The majority of people here are concerned. And as you and other people mentioned here, getting into medical school is a crap shoot.
 

Goro

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Last post on this subject: if you don't want to pay attention to me, pay attention to the wise Gonnif. If multiple people are telling you the same thing, the problem isn't with those people, but with you.



1st of Goro, you're a really salty guy, I'm trying to be as composed on here as I can, which is why I asked the person far above to leave you out of the topic.
 
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