Taking a Year Off - Clinical Psych PhD

[dreamerakky]

Hello,

I'm new here and I would appreciate it if I could receive some input on the following issue:

I'm an undergraduate psychology student and I'm going into my senior year after this summer. I'm planning to apply to a PhD program for clinical psychology, but right now I'm debating whether I should take a year off after graduating college. I'm assuming that if I get an extra year before graduate school, I could 1) gain some clinical experience thereby making myself a more appealing candidate, 2) devote myself more into the application process and studying for the GRE, and 3) raise my GPA higher as it would count my senior year in college. I wonder, however, about the significant disadvantages in taking a year off. Am I right about the above-mentioned advantages, and is there any reason why I should not take a year off? (one issue that I am thinking of is the letter of recommendation - for how long would they be valid?)

Thank you for your time.

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[Cosmo75]

I highly recommend taking time off in between undergrad and grad. I ended up taking 7 years off and working outside the field for a while. Not that I'm advocating *that* long, but I think getting out of school mode and gaining some experience is not only great for the CV, but really can teach you about how the "real world" works. I think it also reduces burnout since grad school is so intense. So yeah, I'd go for it and enjoy that year.

As for LORs, I think that if you have a good relationship with your profs they'd remember you if you approached them a year later. I went back to a professor I did research with 6 years prior and he still remembered me quite well, and was willing to write me a letter.

 

[moonflwr]

I would also highly recommend taking at least a year off after undergrad. I took 2 years off and spent that time working as a research assitant in a children's hospital. Not only did this make me a more competitive candidate for a Phd program (in fact, you'll be hard pressed to find other qualified applicants that didn't also do some type of RA) but it was so much easier to put together an effective application without juggling finals, papers, etc.

I asked my advisor in undergrad whether taking a year off was practical, he told me that as long as you're doing something constructive (I believe he used the example of NOT working at McDonald's), then its a great idea.

 

[deleted176373]

Hello,

I could 1) gain some clinical experience thereby making myself a more appealing candidate, 2) devote myself more into the application process and studying for the GRE, and 3) raise my GPA higher as it would count my senior year in college. I wonder, however, about the significant disadvantages in taking a year off. Am I right about the above-mentioned advantages, and is there any reason why I should not take a year off?

Thank you for your time.

Get your letter writers working immediately after you graduate, they will appreciate the long long lead time. Explain to them that you plan to take the year off but would like to have them work on the letters while your accomplishments are still fresh in their mind.

Gain more research or clinical experience, raise your GPA, and study for your GRE as needed. You'll know which to attend to. Taking the year off is the smart move.

Mark

 

[shock-me-sane]

Smart thing to do, especially getting more research experience. When I went on interviews I was surprised to find that a huge majority of people did take time off and were working in labs.

The only disadvantage I could see is if you lose focus and don't really do much to help your application and don't end up applying at all.

I did direct just because I am a bit older than the average undergrad and I knew that if I didn't do it right away I wouldn't do it at all. I had a great paying career I could have started on and going back for broke wouldn't be something I would want to do.

 

[WestIndiPsych]

If someone really wants to go to graduate school, I say it's best to just go all the way and not stop until you reach your goal! At least put the effort to because often times you find people who don't end up going back because they let "life" get to them and they get caught up,i.e marriage, kids, the money (if it's good), the habit of not having to get into the studying/school work mode.. it can be tough.
But then again, Clinical programs seem almost impossible to get into and it might give you some type of edge.

All in all, make sure that if you will be taking a break you remind yourself everyday of your life that you are on your way back to school! With that mindset, you can ease back into the student life with ease and avoid getting off track..

Also,remember to spend your time doing something valuable, something that will help you get into your program of choice, like as a research assistant, volunteer, clinical experience, GRE prep and/or whatever you need to set you apart.

Don't go and get a bank tellers job and then say you're trying to go back for your doctorate in Clinical.. not wise at all! Use it wisely..



Concerning recommendations: I know people who kept in touch with their professors/ advisers even after a few years (holiday e- cards.. email updates on your whereabouts and your goals) and were able to get recs from them 4 years down the line since they remembered who they were (establish a relationship with them.)
I don't know anything about getting a rec form from a prof and then waiting more than 3 years to use it, less then that shouldn't be a problem. While you may be able to get recs from employers you worked for doing something pertaining to your goals during your "time off," grad programs often want to see those who know you academically talk about you.

 

[SourPatchKid]

I've taken a few years off since undergrad. Every year I am out and in the real world I learn more and more about the field and about what I'd like to research. I thought I knew a lot back then but I had no idea.

On top of that - keep in mind that if you do apply right out of UG, you're going to be competing with people with publications, years of research experience, multiple jobs, and extensive LoRs. It's only one year - you can clear your head and make some money too. This is a time intensive process!

 

[psychanon]

I think that in the vast majority of cases there is no legitimate reason NOT to take a year off. The reasons that people give are:
1) I'll get older
BUT it's only a year or two older, vs. your entire career, and besides if you think 22 is old, then maybe you need some time to put things into perspective.
2) If I take a year off, I'll never go back
BUT if your commitment to going grad school is such that one year away from academia is going distract you to the point of not going back, then you have picked the wrong freakin' field. A psychology Ph.D. takes a hell of a lot of tenacity and dedication, and if you're not 100% with it you should do something else. Besides, the jobs that you can get with a BA in psychology have absolutely no room for growth. Nobody says "Hmmm, I would go to grad school, but then I wouldn't get to stay in this $25,000/ year RA job for the rest of my life." Some people do end up deciding not to go, but it's only because they realize that it's not for them, which is an important thing to realize.

In contrast, look at all the reasons to take time off:
1) you'll get experience, making you more prepared for grad school
2) you'll get another letter of rec
3) you'll have time to refine your research interests
4) you'll have time to think about the programs that are right for you
5) you'll have more free time to spend working on researching your programs
6) you won't have to miss exams to go to interviews
7) you'll have more time to study for your GREs
8) you'll be more mature when you enter grad school, which will probably help you succeed and will surely help you will clinical work
9) you'll have a better comprehension of your research area, which will give you a running start in grad school
10) you will be MUCH more competitive to get into a better program, and a better program will have a lasting impact on your whole career, which will last much longer than one or two years.
11) you will be the same age as everyone else in your program, as most will have taken time off too
12) you will have more to talk about at your interviews
13) you will have a taste of "real world" experience, so you won't have to adjust to that at the same time as adjusting to grad school
14) you won't seem naive at interviews. Nothing damns an applicant more than seeming like they've never had to pay their own bills
15) you will be more certain (or perhaps uncertain-- even more important) that this is the right career for you. much better to waste 1 year than 6.
16) it's not like you'll be away from academia-- you'll get a job in the field
17) many RA jobs are located in cool cities. you may be going to some crap town for grad school. you will want to get in a year or two of fun living before that.
18) you will meet friends in the field
19) you will meet professors, postdocs, and future and current grad students, which makes for great networking
20) you may get presentations or publications
21) you get a year or two to work 9-5 instead of all the time. coming home and not thinking about work is nice.
22) you will save some money for grad school, albeit not much

You see?

 

[Cosmo75]

Great list.

 

[WestIndiPsych]

I think that in the vast majority of cases there is no legitimate reason NOT to take a year off. The reasons that people give are:
1) I'll get older
BUT it's only a year or two older, vs. your entire career, and besides if you think 22 is old, then maybe you need some time to put things into perspective.
2) If I take a year off, I'll never go back
BUT if your commitment to going grad school is such that one year away from academia is going distract you to the point of not going back, then you have picked the wrong freakin' field. A psychology Ph.D. takes a hell of a lot of tenacity and dedication, and if you're not 100% with it you should do something else. Besides, the jobs that you can get with a BA in psychology have absolutely no room for growth. Nobody says "Hmmm, I would go to grad school, but then I wouldn't get to stay in this $25,000/ year RA job for the rest of my life." Some people do end up deciding not to go, but it's only because they realize that it's not for them, which is an important thing to realize.

In contrast, look at all the reasons to take time off:
1) you'll get experience, making you more prepared for grad school
2) you'll get another letter of rec
3) you'll have time to refine your research interests
4) you'll have time to think about the programs that are right for you
5) you'll have more free time to spend working on your programs
6) you won't have to miss exams to go to interviews
7) you'll have more time to study for your GREs
8) you'll be more mature when you enter grad school, which will probably help you succeed and will surely help you will clinical work
9) you'll have a better comprehension of your research area, which will give you a running start in grad school
10) you will be MUCH more competitive to get into a better program, and a better program will have a lasting impact on your whole career, which will last much longer than one or two years.
11) you will be the same age as everyone else in your program, as most will have taken time off too
12) you will have more to talk about at your interviews
13) you will have a taste of "real world" experience, so you won't have to adjust to that at the same time as adjusting to grad school
14) you won't seem naive at interviews. Nothing damns an applicant more than seeming like they've never had to pay their own bills
15) you will be more certain (or perhaps uncertain-- even more important) that this is the right career for you. much better to waste 1 year than 6.
16) it's not like you'll be away from academia-- you'll get a job in the field
17) many RA jobs are located in cool cities. you may be going to some crap town for grad school. you will want to get in a year or two of fun living before that.
18) you will meet friends in the field
19) you will meet professors, postdocs, and future and current grad students, which makes for great networking
20) you may get presentations or publications
21) you get a year or two to work 9-5 instead of all the time. coming home and not thinking about work is nice.
22) you will save some money for grad school, albeit not much

You see?

Some of these sound more like excuses to me, like:
1) I'll get older
<ok, and what will you be doing during that time?>

5) you'll have more free time to spend working on your programs
<that's just plain laziness!>

6) you'll be more mature when you enter grad school, which will probably help you succeed and will surely help you will clinical work
<there actually are mature undergrads.. when you say mature, you mean experienced? Sounds like a McCain on Obama stunt.. Its not doing what everyone else has done to "get in" that makes you mature, it's gaining maturity from your own unique experience even if it didnt take you as long to find it.>
7)you'll have a better comprehension of your research area, which will give you a running start in grad school
<It shouldn't take you two years to better comprehend your research interest! While you're always learning, If you take one year, two years off for this.. you're not ready for graduate school and you're just thinking up air. You're not going to have a "running start" because everyone's research is different, you're still required to take the same amount of time to fulfill requirements..>
8) you will be the same age as everyone else in your program, as most will have taken time off too
<While this is probably true in Clinical/Counseling programs.. so what??? If you are a formidable applicant, i.e high Gpa, GRE, research exp, publication even at 16.. don't worry about the age of the other students, you may even be ahead of some of them!>

14) you won't seem naive at interviews. Nothing damns an applicant more than seeming like they've never had to pay their own bills
<so because someone else has had experience paying a mortgage, light bill, car note or whatever, they will be more successful or be less niave in grad school? > All these exp are helpful and help people to be more "grown up" in a sense, but that does not correlate to how you will do in graduate school..you may know how to manage the little stipend they give you though

10) 17) many RA jobs are located in cool cities. you may be going to some crap town for grad school. you will want to get in a year or two of fun living before that.
< Not even going to talk about this one..>

18) you will meet friends in the field
<ok and you will meet friends in grad school... point please? (not trying to sound rude)>

21) you get a year or two to work 9-5 instead of all the time. coming home and not thinking about work is nice.

I wouldn't base my decision to take time off based on these, they don't hold any significance. In other words, if someone is serious about grad school, their reasons for taking a break should also be serious. Don't base it on trivial things as listed above.
All those other reasons are def worth considering though because they are valid!!! (In my opinion at least)

 

[psychanon]

This was meant to be a comprehensive list of possible reasons, not all of which are equally compelling. But these ideas certainly have merit.

Some of these sound more like excuses to me, like:
1) I'll get older
<ok, and what will you be doing during that time?>

that's why i listed it as a dumb reason not to take a year off....

5) you'll have more free time to spend working on your programs
<that's just plain laziness!>

Sorry, typo. I fixed it. it was supposed to say researching your programs. How is that lazy? There are only so many hours in the day.

6) you'll be more mature when you enter grad school, which will probably help you succeed and will surely help you will clinical work
<there actually are mature undergrads.. when you say mature, you mean experienced? Sounds like a McCain on Obama stunt.. Its not doing what everyone else has done to "get in" that makes you mature, it's gaining maturity from your own unique experience even if it didnt take you as long to find it.>

I'm not arguing that every undergrad is immature, or that everyone who has taken time off is mature, only that people with more life experience are certainly on average more mature (almost by definition), and maturity is a something critical to grad school success.

7)you'll have a better comprehension of your research area, which will give you a running start in grad school
<It shouldn't take you two years to better comprehend your research interest! While you're always learning, If you take one year, two years off for this.. you're not ready for graduate school and you're just thinking up air. You're not going to have a "running start" because everyone's research is different, you're still required to take the same amount of time to fulfill requirements..>

You're not going to take a year to sit around thinking-- that is certainly not what I'm recommending--you'll be working in your research area. That means that you will learn about your research area, which will mean you will be quicker to come up with research ideas, which will lead to theses and whatnot. So yes, running start. And if you think that 2 years is a long time to spend learning about your research area....you are in for a long haul! I have been studying psychology for a decade, 6-7 of which has focused on my current area of interest, and I am not even close to knowing everything i need to know.

8) you will be the same age as everyone else in your program, as most will have taken time off too
<While this is probably true in Clinical/Counseling programs.. so what??? If you are a formidable applicant, i.e high Gpa, GRE, research exp, publication even at 16.. don't worry about the age of the other students, you may even be ahead of some of them!>

It's true that this is not really a good reason in itself, but I think that a lot of people are hesitant to take time off because they think they'll be older than everyone else in their class. I was just dispelling this myth. And btw, a 16 year-old would never in a million years get into a clin psych program, even they had an IQ of 200, because 16 year-olds simply do not have the social maturity to conduct therapy.

14) you won't seem naive at interviews. Nothing damns an applicant more than seeming like they've never had to pay their own bills
<so because someone else has had experience paying a mortgage, light bill, car note or whatever, they will be more successful or be less niave in grad school? > All these exp are helpful and help people to be more "grown up" in a sense, but that does not correlate to how you will do in graduate school..you may know how to manage the little stipend they give you though

It factors into the maturity issue, which is something that is definitely being assessed in interviews. We've had applicant at my program who have talked about how their nervous about paying their own bills because Daddy has always paid them. These people were RIDICULED after the interview, and definitely did not get an offer.

17) many RA jobs are located in cool cities. you may be going to some crap town for grad school. you will want to get in a year or two of fun living before that.
< Not even going to talk about this one..>

Why not? Is it not valid to want to live in NYC for a couple years before settling down in Iowa City? You are only young once.

18) you will meet friends in the field
<ok and you will meet friends in grad school... point please? (not trying to sound rude)>

Again, it goes toward the networking thing. I have friends at clinical psych programs across the country, and I see that as a valuable networking tool. These people are going to be my colleagues for the rest of my life. Plus, it's fun to have reunions at conferences every year.

21) you get a year or two to work 9-5 instead of all the time. coming home and not thinking about work is nice.

Like I said, not every reason posted hear is meant to be equally compelling, but I'm basing these on experience. I took 2 years off, and am now a 4th year. I valued my time working 9-5 in a fun city. I've seen others burn out and drop out because they didn't have any break, and because they didn't really fully comprehend what they were in for. I've seen people switch labs or areas because they realize that what they thought they were interested in at 22 wasn't what they really want to research for the rest of their lives. I've seen people collapse into tears because they weren't ready for the emotional difficulties of conducting therapy. I've seen 21 year-old applicants look like idiots at interviews. I've heard people say that even though they got into a great school, they wish they had taken time off to refine their interests, become more mature, and yes, just have a break. And I've never heard anyone say they wish they hadn't taken time off. That's not to say that it's impossible to succeed when you are straight from undergrad, but almost anyone would do better taking time off.

 

[Ollie123]

It really depends on the individual...some can go right away and be fine, others find it helpful to take time off. Frankly, unless you are a freakin superhero as an undergrad (started working in labs as a freshman, substantive honor's thesis you're publishing, etc.) I think time off is a wise decision.

The reality is that with research experience being pretty much #1 for admittance, you won't be competitive at most of the top programs without time off unless you were, as mentioned above, a superhero. And if you are, go for it

I think one of the big reasons is networking...I'm still collaborating with some folks I worked with before, so that's probably another 2-3 fairly sizable publications I'll have before applying for internship, plus that many more people who know my name and can help when job search time comes around. Certainly not necessary, but it sure didn't hurt

I agree with much of what has been posted by both Psychanon and WestIndi - I think it just depends on your perspective and goals. I DEFINITELY think if there is any concern that a year or two off would side-track you enough that you wouldn't go back, you shouldn't even think about applying. If you're unsure at all, chances of making it through are slim, and even if you do, chances are you won't exactly be a top candidate and the job market can be pretty rough.

I think the only other thing I strongly disagree with is that it shouldn't take 2 years to figure out your research line. I cannot tell you how many people apply with really general research interests like "Eating disorders" or "Addictions", and these people are basically screwed when it comes time to interview. You won't have a "running start" in terms of producing a thesis/dissertation SOONER than your classmates, but chances are good you will have a better sense of the field just from having more exposure to it, and you will have ideas of greater interest to the field. If your goal is to get the degree and get out, there's no point. If your goal is some groundbreaking research, then there is. Its not a guarantee that will happen of course, but to say it doesn't help greatly is just untrue.

 

[WestIndiPsych]

It really depends on the individual...some can go right away and be fine, others find it helpful to take time off. Frankly, unless you are a freakin superhero as an undergrad (started working in labs as a freshman, substantive honor's thesis you're publishing, etc.) I think time off is a wise decision.

The reality is that with research experience being pretty much #1 for admittance, you won't be competitive at most of the top programs without time off unless you were, as mentioned above, a superhero. And if you are, go for it

I think one of the big reasons is networking...I'm still collaborating with some folks I worked with before, so that's probably another 2-3 fairly sizable publications I'll have before applying for internship, plus that many more people who know my name and can help when job search time comes around. Certainly not necessary, but it sure didn't hurt

I agree with much of what has been posted by both Psychanon and WestIndi - I think it just depends on your perspective and goals. I DEFINITELY think if there is any concern that a year or two off would side-track you enough that you wouldn't go back, you shouldn't even think about applying. If you're unsure at all, chances of making it through are slim, and even if you do, chances are you won't exactly be a top candidate and the job market can be pretty rough.

I think the only other thing I strongly disagree with is that it shouldn't take 2 years to figure out your research line. I cannot tell you how many people apply with really general research interests like "Eating disorders" or "Addictions", and these people are basically screwed when it comes time to interview. You won't have a "running start" in terms of producing a thesis/dissertation SOONER than your classmates, but chances are good you will have a better sense of the field just from having more exposure to it, and you will have ideas of greater interest to the field. If your goal is to get the degree and get out, there's no point. If your goal is some groundbreaking research, then there is. Its not a guarantee that will happen of course, but to say it doesn't help greatly is just untrue.

You're right people change their minds about their research topic, everyone does, I even did. Psychanon said to "comprehend your topic.." That's not a reason to take some time off. You could do that in the program, if you got in... that's part of your experience.

You also can't say someone will not get in from undergrad unless they're superwoman/man. Maybe you or know people who didn't get in straight out of grad (which is fine) I didn't get into some of the schools I applied to and they were School Psych!.. but there's a 1 or 2% chance within that applicant pool that did and I bet you they weren't superheros.
Also, no one can tell someone to "take a break." Like Ollie123 said, It should be up to that person, their situation, their goals, their credentials, even if the odds are against them.

 

[Cosmo75]

I agree with that if taking a year off will keep you from going back, then it's probably not for you. Speaking as someone who ended up taking 7 years off, it does get harder to go back the longer you're out. I never moved back home after college, started working outside the field, and got sucked into making money/supporting myself. Every year I'd say I was going to apply, but for whatever reason the timing was bad. Finally, I grew sick of the corporate life so that I walked away. I was able to save a lot of money working in IT, so that helped when I went back finally. I wouldn't change what I did for a second though. Sure I'm older, but so what. I don't regret 1 year of that time. My clinical/research interests were shaped and I'm much more confident in my career choice than I would have been right out of undergrad.

 

[psychanon]

I didn't say it's impossible to get in straight from undergrad. Plenty of people do every year. I said that you'd probably get into a better program if you take time off, which is generally worth the wait given the lasting impact that program choice has on your career. And even if you have the credentials to get into a top-notch program straight from UG, you'd likely end up in a grad school that is a better choice for you AND you'd have the added maturity and experience that would help you succeed in grad school if you take time off. Given that taking time to work as an RA is not that huge of an imposition (for all the reasons I mentioned above), it's a very rewarding tradeoff. Also note that when I say gaining a better comprehension of your research area, I don't mean, like, understanding what depression or eating disorders are, I mean understanding what the relevant issues in the literature are, what the best measures are, what are the gaps in the research, and how to make theory-driven prediction. This is a continual learning process.

There are probably people out there for whom going straight from UG makes sense, maybe because they're a few years older than norm or for family reasons, but these people are few and far between, and for the vast majority it will at least give them a definite advantage.

 

[Ollie123]

You're right people change their minds about their research topic, everyone does, I even did. Psychanon said to "comprehend your topic.." That's not a reason to take some time off. You could do that in the program, if you got in... that's part of your experience.

You also can't say someone will not get in from undergrad unless they're superwoman/man. Maybe you or know people who didn't get in straight out of grad (which is fine) I didn't get into some of the schools I applied to and they were School Psych!.. but there's a 1 or 2% chance within that applicant pool that did and I bet you they weren't superheros.
Also, no one can tell someone to "take a break." Like Ollie123 said, It should be up to that person, their situation, their goals, their credentials, even if the odds are against them.

Well I wasn't talking about people changing their mind about their interests, I was more referring to the fact that the additional experience can generally lead to better research projects being produced. Again, not a hard and fast rule, but generally speaking its true.

And again, no one was saying its impossible, but we're just saying that for most people, unless they spend their time off screwing around, they'll probably be able to get into a better school after time off than straight out of undergrad. I do agree its up to the individual to decide whether or not that is reason enough to wait, depending on their career goals and the like.

 

[psychdude5469]

When I went on interviews about 1/3 of the people were from UG, 1/3 were getting their masters, and 1/3 were working as RAs. I don't what the acceptance population is like, but its seems to me that it would be similar to this breakdown. Taking time off has its advantages. The original poster mentioned getting experience (clinical). Experience is a must, but research experience is much more valuable. They also mentioned raising their GPA. Some people need to take time off (to gain experience and boost GPA); others do not. It seems like the original poster falls in this former category. It seems to me that this is a question of "Should I take time off to boost my CV" rather than "I need some time off to think about whether this is what I want to do". I would suggest evaluating the reqs of the schools you want to apply to and seeing how you match up. It is possible to get into a good clin psych phd program straight from undergrad. I did it, and I'm not even a "superhero" as mentioned previously.

Also, taking time off so that you have time to look at schools and complete applications is entirely not needed. It IS very time consuming but completely do-able, even while taking a full course load and working. It's good practice for the increased work load of grad school (or so I think).

 

[KimJ]

Would it not be a good idea to take a few years off (as opposed to one or two) before applying to grad school to get married and start a family? I know I'm way ahead of myself but unfortunately I'm split between what I want more. I'd love to be a young mom and get married right after graduation, but I'd also love to dive right in to grad school. I'm afraid that if I go to grad school immediately, I'll find that it'll be many many years before I have the time to start a family. So should I take a few years off after graduation and attempt to get a decent job with just a BA (while of course volunteering and building my resume), start a family and THEN apply? Ugh...so much to think about...

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I took a few years off after graduating, and it really enhanced my abilities when I went back because I felt like I had more life experience, particularly outside of academia.

 

[thirdeye99]

Just wanted to share my experience / thoughts as I think this topic is very important. I am 31 years old, and have now been out of undergrad for over 9 years. I am now going to be applying (finally) to clinical psych programs this fall.

Frankly, I don't understand how students go straight from undergrad to graduate. I really didn't have a clue about what I wanted to do at age 22 for a career, much less be willing to commit 6 years of my life and lots of money to a doctoral program. I had strong enough credentials that I probably could have faked it, convinced myself and some poor program that I was ready for doctoral work in clin psych, and gotten in somewhere.Fortunately for my application's sake, I stayed in the field and have worked for 7+ years doing research in behavioral medicine at a university psychiatry department.

Taking time off allowed me to explore other interests (and eliminate them as career possibilities), bolster my application with a number of publications as well as clinical patient assessment, have some fun with friends/family and get engaged, but most importantly - it allowed me time to really examine and think about whether clinical psych is the right choice for me.

More power to the person who has the singular focus and knowledge of his/her career path immediately after college. But from my view - I'd recommend taking at least a year or two off to decompress from 17 straight years of school. Get some real world experience, or at least bolster your application. And be honest with yourself / do some soul searching about exactly what you want to do with your life & career.

And if it takes almost a decade like it did with me - so be it! (not that I advise everyone to take that long!).

 

[krisrox]

I'm getting nervous just reading this thread. I searched "Taking a year off" in past threads because I DON'T plan on taking a year off and have my hopes set on getting into a program. I'm not a superhero- I have 2 years' experience in 2 labs, 2 posters of my own and several other collaborative posters, a clinical internship, pretty stellar GPA and decent GRE. Above all, I have a pretty narrow set of research interests and feel ready to move on. Honestly, I wasn't too nervous about getting right in out of UG until I read this. Do you think schools will discriminate against me because I'm young? I feel like my experience proves I'm qualified!

 

[cara susanna]

A few of us on here got in right out of undergrad. It isn't easy and it's getting rarer, but it is possible. So you never know!

 

[GradStudent87]

What about going for a master's in between undergrad and a doctoral program. People on here seem to advise against it mostly because they say it's a waste of money but I think there could be some advantages. You get used to graduate level work and prove to yourself and to other schools that you can handle it.(because i've heard the workload in grad vs undergrad is very diff) and may be able to develop closer bonds with professors then you had as an undergrad leading to better LOR's and better advice on what career path to take. Along with this getting an RA position or doing some kind of other volunteer work either clinical or research I think is important to get to the know the real world more but I don't see what's so bad about going to a master's if you have the money for it.

 

[krisrox]

if you have the money for it.[/B]

That last line, however, makes all the difference...

 

[Eruca]

I also took 3 years off after undergrad to work as a full-time RA. For me, working in labs p/t as an undergrad was qualitatively different from working in a lab 9-5 as an RA. And, do you know what it feels like to make some money and be able to somewhat respectably support yourself? If you don't, then take the time off! Because it feels goooood. AND, you won't have that feeling for about 6-7 years once you enter a doctoral program.

I agree with many above - maturity & experience coming straight out of UG really does depend on the individual. But I will tell you, during interview weekends we did consider perceived emotional maturity come decision-making time.

It can be wise to get a Masters if it's part of a larger strategic plan or specific career choice - but not as a way to buy or spend time in between undergrad & a doctoral program. Why PAY to get a Masters if you don't need it for specific reasons like improving your GPA? Why? People on here tend to be against it for a reason. You can GET PAID to be an RA and gain the same, if not more, application credibility. Who just has the money laying around for a Masters degree?

I heard the 'might never go back' fears when I took time off during undergrad and again after. A rather tenuous reason to do anything in my opinion.

 

[psychanxiety]

I am a huge proponent of RAing. I wasn't really lacking any qualifications straight from undergrad- I went to a respected school, had 2.5 years of undergrad RAing under my belt, a couple posters, a 3.9 GPA, and LORs lined up. However, I thought that if I took time off I would get into a better program than I would straight out of undergrad. Also, I was doing an honors thesis my senior year of college and I decided that I wouldn't be able to put as much work into the thesis or applications if I were doing both at the same time. So I applied for jobs, despite my parents' wails of, "But what if you never go back?!" I was still working on psych research so it's not like I'd just forget to apply. I spent the first year studying for and taking the psych gre and the regular gre. Then I spent a summer researching programs and giving my LOR writers a heads up. Then I spent a somewhat miserable fall and winter applying and interviewing. Meanwhile, I was working a great job, paying my own rent, writing papers, and saving up a sizeable chunk of money for grad school.

I certainly think it's possible to get in straight out of undergrad. It depends a lot on the program- my undergrad school hadn't admitted any students straight from undergrad in at least 2 years (I'm not sure about the upper level grad students). The school I'm attending this fall is more open to it- there is one student in my cohort who is straight from undergrad. But you could also work, save money to avoid grad school loans, and gain experience and maturity that will help you get into a better program. (Obviously none of this really applies to non-traditional or wealthy students- I certainly understand the need to move along in those cases)

 

[cara susanna]

I really want to stress as well the very uncontrollable aspects of clinical psych admissions. A lot of people here compare clinical admissions to the lottery, and, once you get beyond the interview stage, I think there are a lot of similarites.

This may sound contradictory because I've been the one saying applying wasn't as scary as I thought. I just mean that I fared better than I thought I would, perhaps because I did have said luck. However, I think a lot of applicants really are super scared of applying, and though I totally understand that, I really think the best thing is to just see what happens. If they don't admit you, it obviously doesn't mean that you're a total failure, and just implement your plan B--mine was to work as an RA, for instance. In fact, while I was waitlisted I even started applying for jobs.

 

[krisrox]

This is all still foreign-sounding to me. I like the idea of working full-time as a research assistant, but 1) Full-time RA jobs are hard to come by and 2) I feel like I would just be adding to my experience, not gaining any new experiences by doing so. There are people working in my lab now that have been out of undergrad for 3 or 4 years who haven't done as much as me (!) I just feel like- why kill my momentum now?

 

[LovinPsych]

What about going for a master's in between undergrad and a doctoral program. People on here seem to advise against it mostly because they say it's a waste of money but I think there could be some advantages. You get used to graduate level work and prove to yourself and to other schools that you can handle it.(because i've heard the workload in grad vs undergrad is very diff) and may be able to develop closer bonds with professors then you had as an undergrad leading to better LOR's and better advice on what career path to take. Along with this getting an RA position or doing some kind of other volunteer work either clinical or research I think is important to get to the know the real world more but I don't see what's so bad about going to a master's if you have the money for it.

I noticed too , many are against going into a Master's program after your undergrad . I don't allow that to effect my decision to however , if I listened to everyone here I wouldn't be going to Argosy . I ask for advice but I take from where I feel will be the best for me . It also depends on the nature of the advice , if it comes as oh don't do this cause of that without valid reasons. I'll dismiss that advice . I make my own way , I have my whole life . Many disagree with me going into Masters after getting my BA , but I will do that . I feel that will give me chance to get experience , research and all . I will be starting some of that during my undergrad though . I take this career path very seriously and will stop at nothing til I reach my goal . Saying it's a waste of money without a valid comment follow up with facts is pointless to me . For some it's getting there asap . I don't want short cuts or what will cost less , this is what you do , you spend money to make it . In the long run later on , I'll benefit from doing it this way . My goal is to get my BA after 4 years , then move on to my Masters , then move on to getting into a Ph.D program . Money is no object to me cause that's just not the way I operate . I haven't decided where I will do my Master's just yet . But I am looking into that next year when I make it into my second year of college .

I can't speak for everything all the time but my plan isn't to take a year off . I could change later I don't know , knowing me I doubt it . But I do not feel that is the right choice " for me " .

 

[psychanxiety]

This is all still foreign-sounding to me. I like the idea of working full-time as a research assistant, but 1) Full-time RA jobs are hard to come by and 2) I feel like I would just be adding to my experience, not gaining any new experiences by doing so. There are people working in my lab now that have been out of undergrad for 3 or 4 years who haven't done as much as me (!) I just feel like- why kill my momentum now?

I think they're still easier to come by than really good clinical phd grad school spots. It takes work to find them, but they're certainly out there. And it's similar to applying for grad school- people with prior experience have a better chance of getting jobs. So, with your prior experience you'll probably find a job, which allows you to gain maturity, a different research perspective, save money, and make you even more competitive for grad school.

 

[AnnoyedByFreud]

I am a huge proponent of RAing. I wasn't really lacking any qualifications straight from undergrad- I went to a respected school, had 2.5 years of undergrad RAing under my belt, a couple posters, a 3.9 GPA, and LORs lined up. However, I thought that if I took time off I would get into a better program than I would straight out of undergrad.

That's exactly how I feel! I'm taking a year off (despite having a lot of research experience, good GPA, strong LOR's, etc, etc.) because I'd rather wait to get in to the right program for me and my future goals instead of entering a so-so program.

 

[Eruca]

I noticed too , many are against going into a Master's program after your undergrad . I don't allow that to effect my decision to however , if I listened to everyone here I wouldn't be going to Argosy . I ask for advice but I take from where I feel will be the best for me . It also depends on the nature of the advice , if it comes as oh don't do this cause of that without valid reasons. I'll dismiss that advice . I make my own way , I have my whole life . Many disagree with me going into Masters after getting my BA , but I will do that . I feel that will give me chance to get experience , research and all . I will be starting some of that during my undergrad though . I take this career path very seriously and will stop at nothing til I reach my goal . Saying it's a waste of money without a valid comment follow up with facts is pointless to me . For some it's getting there asap . I don't want short cuts or what will cost less , this is what you do , you spend money to make it . In the long run later on , I'll benefit from doing it this way . My goal is to get my BA after 4 years , then move on to my Masters , then move on to getting into a Ph.D program . Money is no object to me cause that's just not the way I operate . I haven't decided where I will do my Master's just yet . But I am looking into that next year when I make it into my second year of college .
.

I know you're not going to like this, but personally, I think you are being a little naive. You're saying this all after only one year of undergrad??? I'm sorry but I think you may be a bit misinformed. Going to a Masters program is not going to necessarily give you the different experience you speak of. Also, your trajectory is a little off. You don't do BA then MA/MS then PhD. In fact, you'll do BA, MA/MS, apply to doctoral programs, do MA again then PhD. We gain our MA while in the progress of the PhD (via a Mastes thesis & defense). The folks in my program (clinical PhD) who had their Masters coming in did not get to skip this step. Maybe you didn't know this? Or maybe you know this and don't care? Fair enough if so. But deliberately doing a f/t RA is NOT designed to break your stride or momentum. It is meant to continue the path and enhance your qualifications. It is not looked at by anyone as a "shortcut". Sorry. Again, I think you're lacking some important information.

I'd encourage to go off this board and speak to students, professors, faculty in the clinical doctoral area you are intending to apply. Ask their thoughts on the matter. I'm fine with folks not taking the advice on here, but I also want you to know some are coming to this board with a few years on you and are only spending time answering these questions so we can possibly help (or save you from a lot of time, hassle, and money).

We all take this career path very seriously (I've spent the past 5 years IN grad school after all). The only people that can say money is no object are those that maybe haven't had to pay their own way before. Or make student loan payments, or ? Obviously I'm not driven by money (hence psychology), but to say it doesn't matter is again, either naive, or just inexperienced. Unfortunately it matters more than you realize.

If you just finished your first year of college, then you're... 19? While I appreciate your passion and drive (it will certainly help you as you go along); I think it might be a little early to be so rigid and certain about what the best path might look like. With your drive and good undergrad credentials.. what if you could find an RA working with one of the top researchers in the field, and get paid and then get into a stellar program? Open your mind. Or at least, don't close it so so early in the game. But keep the passion, that's good stuff.

 

[LovinPsych]

I know you're not going to like this, but personally, I think you are being a little naive. You're saying this all after only one year of undergrad??? I'm sorry but I think you may be a bit misinformed. Going to a Masters program is not going to necessarily give you the different experience you speak of. Also, your trajectory is a little off. You don't do BA then MA/MS then PhD. In fact, you'll do BA, MA/MS, apply to doctoral programs, do MA again then PhD. We gain our MA while in the progress of the PhD (via a Mastes thesis & defense). The folks in my program (clinical PhD) who had their Masters coming in did not get to skip this step. Maybe you didn't know this? Or maybe you know this and don't care? Fair enough if so. But deliberately doing a f/t RA is NOT designed to break your stride or momentum. It is meant to continue the path and enhance your qualifications. It is not looked at by anyone as a "shortcut". Sorry. Again, I think you're lacking some important information.

I'd encourage to go off this board and speak to students, professors, faculty in the clinical doctoral area you are intending to apply. Ask their thoughts on the matter. I'm fine with folks not taking the advice on here, but I also want you to know some are coming to this board with a few years on you and are only spending time answering these questions so we can possibly help (or save you from a lot of time, hassle, and money).

We all take this career path very seriously (I've spent the past 5 years IN grad school after all). The only people that can say money is no object are those that maybe haven't had to pay their own way before. Or make student loan payments, or ? Obviously I'm not driven by money (hence psychology), but to say it doesn't matter is again, either naive, or just inexperienced. Unfortunately it matters more than you realize.

If you just finished your first year of college, then you're... 19? While I appreciate your passion and drive (it will certainly help you as you go along); I think it might be a little early to be so rigid and certain about what the best path might look like. With your drive and good undergrad credentials.. what if you could find an RA working with one of the top researchers in the field, and get paid and then get into a stellar program? Open your mind. Or at least, don't close it so so early in the game. But keep the passion, that's good stuff.

With every post I do , I always post risking someone analyzing or pointing out their own opinion on it so I am not bothered by what you said . I feel more informed by your post , above all but what I intend to do remains the same. I've not completed a year yet I am new , as in I am in my first year . I will be 22 years old , May 20th . So no I am not 19 anymore, I wish sometimes . I have been told that doing a Master's give you more experience . I'm guessing that person who is in the program doesn't know what they are saying?

Anyways , I don't want to seem like I am closing off by no means do I mean to come off that way . I'm just giving you or anyone an idea of what I am going for . I had no idea about returning to some of those programs back and forth so I am glad you told me that . I want to learn from people and take advice but just know I always will edit to my needs ( within reason ) . I just dislike general comments without facts or reason . It seems pointless to me . Real advice by giving fact and reason I am more than happy to listen to , like your post for an example . I disagree with some of your perceptions of me however . I've considered RA but I am unsure , I've a long ways so I know I have time .

I am talking about in terms of " Oh I won't do this and that cause it's a waste of money " . People don't give me core reasons not to do a MA program . So I dismiss such comments . That's all I am saying . I'm severely underestimated and misunderstood . I don't know in what way I can fully make others understand without writing a page by page post with all I want to do in full detail . I fully acknowledge I have a hell of alot to learn . I don't believe I know more than others so I don't feel I am naive in a sense where I will say I know what I am doing . I'd be lying to myself and others . I only agree with you , with lacking important information . By all means educate me , tell me anything I may not know , but I only ask not to be seen as naive .

I'm finding out beyond this board I have to push my way and prove myself to others to make my place known and worth giving me a try . I know that's the real world but I do believe I can come off opposite of what and who I am . So if there's anything I should know , I don't mind being told . I am not being sarcastic neither , cause I truly mean that .

 

[Eruca]

^ nicely put. And my apologies for assuming any naivety (and your age). My bad. You're just so early in this process, that I have a difficult time believing you have all the info you need or really know what the costs/benefits to an MA really are at this point.

It's definitely good for you to know that you will most likely repeat the MA process again, nearly in full in most top clinical programs. Which is a big reason why I don't see the point. An MA won't hurt you, but it's not going to help you any more than having 2 years of applicable RA experience. The loans to pay for this do add up and have real consequences once you're out of school. I think I reacted to your use of the words "serious" and "shortcut" as if going straight to Masters programs makes one more serious about this path. The truth is, in and of itself, it doesn't.

If you have the passion & drive that you seem to have, then you could quite possibly get enough done during undergrad to be a good candidate to go straight to a PhD program. While I'm not a huge fan of this, for various reasons, it does work for some. One thing I notice is that some go to a masters instead of taking time off because; 1) pressure from self or parents, 2) desired clout for being in a 'grad program', 3) fear of what life is like outside of the safety of school environment, 4) fear of what would happen if they don't. I'm not implying that any of this pertains to you. But they are common reasons, and I'd argue misguided ones, for mainlining your education.

I appreciate your thoughtful post to my somewhat blunt feedback.

 

[LovinPsych]

Yes well you see I respect your blunt feedback . I enjoy a challenge , as long as they're constructive . The fact you responded letting me know some of what I have been thinking maybe or is flawed works for me .Cause a huge part of life is learning from your own experiences and even more so by others . I must ask , is this why PH.D programs are so long ? Like I hear it takes 6-7 years , is it the Mastes thesis & defense, causing such lengthy timing in such programs ?

BTW I am not bothered , seriously . I come off that way at times .

 

[Eruca]

I must ask , is this why PH.D programs are so long ? Like I hear it takes 6-7 years , is it the Mastes thesis & defense, causing such lengthy timing in such programs ?

Others can chime in here.. but I'd say yes, in part. In my program, your 1st year is nearly all coursework, plus assessment practicum (learning to do SCIDs, MMPI, etc). The 2nd year is more coursework, and taking on clients at the clinic (so group supervision as well). During the first 2 years you are developing your Masters and hopefully defending it by your 3rd year. There is also Comprehensives, which for us is an APA-style literature review, most likely related to your upcoming dissertation topic. By your 3rd year, you are increasing your client caseload and hopefully taking externship opps or roles in other agencies to diversify your client experience. You may also be involved in grant-supported research (either your own, or your mentor's). And writing papers, presenting posters at conferences, etc. By 4th year, your coursework is probably almost done but you may be taking electives in specific areas. Your responsibilities outside of the department seriously increase by this time and you're somewhere in the dissertation proposal process. After that you are finishing up classes, collecting data, continuing research productivity, and continuing a decent client caseload. Some folks apply for internship in their 4th year (only about 20% of people in my program have done this). In part b/c my program offers prof certificates in Behavioral Genetics and/or Behavioral Neuroscience concurrent with the Clinical PhD, which means additional coursework.

I applied for internship in my 5th year. By that time I had worked (individuals, couples and/or group) at a domestic violence outreach center, the department training clinic, the university health center, the department of corrections, the U.S. Dept of Commerce (EAP counselor), and numerous other roles as undergrad & grad TA, clinic intake coordinator, etc. SO, the moral of my longwinded story is it takes A LOT of time, energy and work. You will most likely graduate in 5-6 years, but then you have to either do a formal post-doc or do something informally to gain the supervised hours you need for licensure post-graduation (somewhat depending on state licensing requirements). It is a great ride, but a long haul.

I just finished my 5th year. I feel competent & capable, but man do I still have a LOT to learn!

 

[LovinPsych]

Others can chime in here.. but I'd say yes, in part. In my program, your 1st year is nearly all coursework, plus assessment practicum (learning to do SCIDs, MMPI, etc). The 2nd year is more coursework, and taking on clients at the clinic (so group supervision as well). During the first 2 years you are developing your Masters and hopefully defending it by your 3rd year. There is also Comprehensives, which for us is an APA-style literature review, most likely related to your upcoming dissertation topic. By your 3rd year, you are increasing your client caseload and hopefully taking externship opps or roles in other agencies to diversify your client experience. You may also be involved in grant-supported research (either your own, or your mentor's). And writing papers, presenting posters at conferences, etc. By 4th year, your coursework is probably almost done but you may be taking electives in specific areas. Your responsibilities outside of the department seriously increase by this time and you're somewhere in the dissertation proposal process. After that you are finishing up classes, collecting data, continuing research productivity, and continuing a decent client caseload. Some folks apply for internship in their 4th year (only about 20% of people in my program have done this). In part b/c my program offers prof certificates in Behavioral Genetics and/or Behavioral Neuroscience concurrent with the Clinical PhD, which means additional coursework.

I applied for internship in my 5th year. By that time I had worked (individuals, couples and/or group) at a domestic violence outreach center, the department training clinic, the university health center, the department of corrections, the U.S. Dept of Commerce (EAP counselor), and numerous other roles as undergrad & grad TA, clinic intake coordinator, etc. SO, the moral of my longwinded story is it takes A LOT of time, energy and work. You will most likely graduate in 5-6 years, but then you have to either do a formal post-doc or do something informally to gain the supervised hours you need for licensure post-graduation (somewhat depending on state licensing requirements). It is a great ride, but a long haul.

I just finished my 5th year. I feel competent & capable, but man do I still have a LOT to learn!

My goodness that's alot , I am like lost for words . That's a hella amount of work ! But it all is so exciting . My gosh , are you going to be a Clinical Psychologist ? That's what I am aiming for .

 

[Eruca]

My goodness that's alot , I am like lost for words . That's a hella amount of work ! But it all is so exciting . My gosh , are you going to be a Clinical Psychologist ? That's what I am aiming for .

Yes on all counts.

(and not to overwhelm you, it will be hard but also second nature. But I feel like I didn't know most of that when I applied) To really get the heart rate going, I will also tell you that applying for internship was WAY harder than applying for graduate school... I want to say that all the above is one reason people promote taking some time off. The commitment is a serious one.

 

[LovinPsych]

Yes it is indeed . I mean I have decided to putting off having children for my career cause I know it's a huge commitment but i must say that is very serious stuff there . Why are internships harder to apply for ?

 

[Ollie123]

I must ask , is this why PH.D programs are so long ? Like I hear it takes 6-7 years , is it the Mastes thesis & defense, causing such lengthy timing in such programs ?

I'd just like to add to Eruca's comments by saying that I almost feel like 6 years isn't enough. That said, I plan to be done in about that time frame, so don't go thinking I'm completely delusional

This ties into my post in another thread about why I feel its so important graduate school give people the tools to learn on their own. The idea that graduate training can fully prepare people for the rest of their career and teach them all the information they need is....insane. I just view it as the jump-start to what I expect will be a lifelong process of learning. I've said before that we could spend 20 years working 80 hours a week doing nothing other than our doctoral studies, and still wouldn't be anywhere near as informed and knowledgeable as we should be. Grad school is all about trying to parse down an astronomical amount of information as best you can, and making the best of an impossible situation. I think a big part of why some people struggle is that you have to walk in accepting the fact that you're never "done". There will always be another book chapter. Another article. A new client population. The list goes on. Some people find it crushing, however I don't think I'm alone in finding it awesome No therapist is fully qualified to treat whoever walks through the door. No researcher has a complete grasp of the implications, meanings, etc. behind their OWN projects, let alone those by others. I don't think of 6 years as a long time, I think of it as a pretty reasonable compromise given everything we need to know. 20 is obviously obscenely unrealistic. So we have to settle for "learning how to learn" and then proving to faculty that we can continue to do so on our own. 6 years gives the opportunity to take a bunch of coursework, refine your research skills with a master's degree, further improve them with a doctorate, get a decent amount of clinical exposure, see a variety of clients, etc. You can do it in less than that, depending on a number of factors (scope of thesis and dissertation, amount of clinical experience desired, etc.), but without a doubt, it is a balancing act and no one emerges from grad school having done everything.

 

[LovinPsych]

I'd just like to add to Eruca's comments by saying that I almost feel like 6 years isn't enough. That said, I plan to be done in about that time frame, so don't go thinking I'm completely delusional

This ties into my post in another thread about why I feel its so important graduate school give people the tools to learn on their own. The idea that graduate training can fully prepare people for the rest of their career and teach them all the information they need is....insane. I just view it as the jump-start to what I expect will be a lifelong process of learning. I've said before that we could spend 20 years working 80 hours a week doing nothing other than our doctoral studies, and still wouldn't be anywhere near as informed and knowledgeable as we should be. Grad school is all about trying to parse down an astronomical amount of information as best you can, and making the best of an impossible situation. I think a big part of why some people struggle is that you have to walk in accepting the fact that you're never "done". There will always be another book chapter. Another article. A new client population. The list goes on. Some people find it crushing, however I don't think I'm alone in finding it awesome No therapist is fully qualified to treat whoever walks through the door. No researcher has a complete grasp of the implications, meanings, etc. behind their OWN projects, let alone those by others. I don't think of 6 years as a long time, I think of it as a pretty reasonable compromise given everything we need to know. 20 is obviously obscenely unrealistic. So we have to settle for "learning how to learn" and then proving to faculty that we can continue to do so on our own. 6 years gives the opportunity to take a bunch of coursework, refine your research skills with a master's degree, further improve them with a doctorate, get a decent amount of clinical exposure, see a variety of clients, etc. You can do it in less than that, depending on a number of factors (scope of thesis and dissertation, amount of clinical experience desired, etc.), but without a doubt, it is a balancing act and no one emerges from grad school having done everything.

Yea when you write it that way 6-7 years really isn't very long . No you are not alone with finding it all awesome . The harder something is the more I want it . I can't see myself doing anything else besides this . I've considered Pharmacy . But if I have to choose without a doubt I choose Clinical Psychology . Research is one of the most appealing things to me in this field . I know one is way different than the other but do you know how much I enjoy researching things? Mental illnesses and why people behave and act the way they do ? I write my own amature thesis too . It may not count cause it's not under an accredited program but I feel it's good for practice . Heck i've been studying the APA style format before I even was accepted into college . Research is something i see myself doing for a long time , but i do also want to work in a group clinic and/or private practice . Libraries and the internet are useful tools when you just want to get a feel . I can't imagine the real thing.

 

[GradStudent87]

Yea when you write it that way 6-7 years really isn't very long . No you are not alone with finding it all awesome . The harder something is the more I want it . I can't see myself doing anything else besides this . I've considered Pharmacy . But if I have to choose without a doubt I choose Clinical Psychology . Research is one of the most appealing things to me in this field . I know one is way different than the other but do you know how much I enjoy researching things? Mental illnesses and why people behave and act the way they do ? I write my own amature thesis too . It may not count cause it's not under an accredited program but I feel it's good for practice . Heck i've been studying the APA style format before I even was accepted into college . Research is something i see myself doing for a long time , but i do also want to work in a group clinic and/or private practice . Libraries and the internet are useful tools when you just want to get a feel . I can't imagine the real thing.

Yea I agree maybe not so much about loving research but that the 6-7 years in grad school does almost seem as exciting as it does challenging. It will allow us to apply all the questions we've started wondering/asking ever since being in undergraduate classes or even before that for many of us who have growing up been interesting in studying the human psyche. The 6-7 years I agree is probably not enough time to train us and I see it as a great challenge. The only problem is practically how to survive in the world without a job and going to school for that long, that's the scary part to me more so then the rigourous program.

 

[PsychPupil]

I took a year off between my bachelor's and master's and it was the best year of my life. I worked at a psychiatric hospital and had plenty of time to hang out with friends, etc. I DEFINITELY recommend taking a year off. I wish I took a year off in between my master's and Ph.D., honestly.

Rivi,
Can I ask what your job was at the psychiatric hospital? I just finished undergrad and would love to work in a psych hospital before applying to grad school but I didn't think that they hired people who only held a bachelor's.

 

[cardamom]

I took two years off after undergrad to do an RA position in a hospital (one with a well known psychiatric dept and training program), where I got to not only get more research experience, but clinical exposure (I do various clinical interviews with our participants, all of whom are patients). It was the best thing possible for me. I know people do sometimes get in to PhD programs right out of undergrad, and I suspect I could have, but it was important to me that I not only get into a program, but feel like I had my choice/got the best possible options. Sure enough, I had very good results with my applications and will be attending the program that ended up my first choice. If I had applied right out of undergrad, I know I never would have been able to settle for anything less, given the possibility that with extra experience, I might have a better outcome, and rejecting other programs would burn bridges if I wanted to reapply later. I suppose I could have just applied to the few programs on my list I knew I could accept without regret, but to be honest, I was less sure at the time what those were, and I don't think the program I eventually liked the best and chose would have been that high on it back then.

The additional experience also helped in ways I wouldn't have been able to predict--being in a different sort of work environment taught me new work skills (including how to decrease procrastination and work more efficiently than academia ever did, something I'm extremely glad to have improved) and taught me many clinical skills and gave me additional insight into what populations I enjoy/don't enjoy working with, something that was helpful when considering which mentors I wanted to work with. From everyone I've talked to, it seems like most people who take time off think that was the right decision, whereas it's much more of a mix for people who go straight through, so it seems like taking time off is a pretty safe bet--not one required to be satisfied by any means, but one that rarely hurts in that respect and only seems to help.

 

[okayroots06]

Some of these sound more like excuses to me, like:
1) I'll get older
<ok, and what will you be doing during that time?>

5) you'll have more free time to spend working on your programs
<that's just plain laziness!>

6) you'll be more mature when you enter grad school, which will probably help you succeed and will surely help you will clinical work
<there actually are mature undergrads.. when you say mature, you mean experienced? Sounds like a McCain on Obama stunt.. Its not doing what everyone else has done to "get in" that makes you mature, it's gaining maturity from your own unique experience even if it didnt take you as long to find it.>
7)you'll have a better comprehension of your research area, which will give you a running start in grad school
<It shouldn't take you two years to better comprehend your research interest! While you're always learning, If you take one year, two years off for this.. you're not ready for graduate school and you're just thinking up air. You're not going to have a "running start" because everyone's research is different, you're still required to take the same amount of time to fulfill requirements..>
8) you will be the same age as everyone else in your program, as most will have taken time off too
<While this is probably true in Clinical/Counseling programs.. so what??? If you are a formidable applicant, i.e high Gpa, GRE, research exp, publication even at 16.. don't worry about the age of the other students, you may even be ahead of some of them!>

14) you won't seem naive at interviews. Nothing damns an applicant more than seeming like they've never had to pay their own bills
<so because someone else has had experience paying a mortgage, light bill, car note or whatever, they will be more successful or be less niave in grad school? > All these exp are helpful and help people to be more "grown up" in a sense, but that does not correlate to how you will do in graduate school..you may know how to manage the little stipend they give you though

10) 17) many RA jobs are located in cool cities. you may be going to some crap town for grad school. you will want to get in a year or two of fun living before that.
< Not even going to talk about this one..>

18) you will meet friends in the field
<ok and you will meet friends in grad school... point please? (not trying to sound rude)>

21) you get a year or two to work 9-5 instead of all the time. coming home and not thinking about work is nice.

I wouldn't base my decision to take time off based on these, they don't hold any significance. In other words, if someone is serious about grad school, their reasons for taking a break should also be serious. Don't base it on trivial things as listed above.
All those other reasons are def worth considering though because they are valid!!! (In my opinion at least)

westindi has some interesting in points and i don't necessarily agree but agree that you should have a valid reason why you want to take some time off. but if you don't have a valid reason, you live once and no need to become an indentured servant immediately. you def. want some time off before you slave away the 5-6 years. haha my 2 cents.

 

[PsychPupil]

I was a "Clinical Assistant." Basically, I did the grunt work. Here is the job description:

"Performs various duties in assisting the Staff Nurse in the treatment and care of the patient in accordance with established methods and procedures of the hospital. Facilitates the maintenance of the therapeutic milieu. Requires a Bachelor’s Degree in Psychology and 1 yr experience in field preferred."

It was an amazing job. I learned more about people in one month of that job than a semester of school. It was stressful at times, however.

Thanks for the info. I'm gonna check and see if I can find a similar opportunity around my area.

 

[Eruca]

Why are internships harder to apply for ?

First, to Ollie, totally agree. 6-7 years really isn't enough, and thank goodness for workshops, conferences, and continued education! I think this is a job that requires lifelong learning.

Don't want to take us too off task re: the internship question. But I found the process harder for many reasons, some logistical, much emotional. You have to intricately (tediously!) document the last 4-6 years of every research & clinical experience you've ever had. You write 5 essays, one of them site specific (and average # of sites applied to is 15), spend HOURS researching sites, get letters of rec, revise your CV, cover letters, provide transcripts, etc. You have to pay to fly around the country and interview, and you're expected to know and be able to articulate, sell, your many experiences in a way that is oriented to entry-level psychologist, not just student. The whole program knows you're applying and the non-match rate is creeping up to 25%. No internship = no graduation. While not getting matched is not the end of the world, when it does happen, it's an excruciating process to go through the clearinghouse, or grapple with a drastic change of plans. You may have to deal with a crap load of rejections to places that your peers got interviews at (like me ) And if you are on the high end of the 'traditional student' age range, and female, an extra year may have special implications to your overall plan. Even just the emotions associated with not being able to graduate/walk with your classmates I would find difficult.

Fortunately I matched to my 1st choice, but it was a dicey process. I grew a lot, depended on my classmates for support, and I'm very excited to move on. But it felt qualitatively different from applying to grad school (and my classmates concur).

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

First, to Ollie, totally agree. 6-7 years really isn't enough, and thank goodness for workshops, conferences, and continued education! I think this is a job that requires lifelong learning.

+1.

There is *SO* much out there, even if you went to conferences full time you'd only get exposed to a fraction of what is out there. I try and go to things in my main area, and then mix in a few related areas.

Don't want to take us too off task re: the internship question. But I found the process harder for many reasons, some logistical, much emotional. You have to intricately (tediously!) document the last 4-6 years of every research & clinical experience you've ever had. You write 5 essays, one of them site specific (and average # of sites applied to is 15), spend HOURS researching sites, get letters of rec, revise your CV, cover letters, provide transcripts, etc. You have to pay to fly around the country and interview, and you're expected to know and be able to articulate, sell, your many experiences in a way that is oriented to entry-level psychologist, not just student. The whole program knows you're applying and the non-match rate is creeping up to 25%. No internship = no graduation. While not getting matched is not the end of the world, when it does happen, it's an excruciating process to go through the clearinghouse, or grapple with a drastic change of plans. You may have to deal with a crap load of rejections to places that your peers got interviews at (like me ) And if you are on the high end of the 'traditional student' age range, and female, an extra year may have special implications to your overall plan. Even just the emotions associated with not being able to graduate/walk with your classmates I would find difficult.

There are some good internship threads (albeit long) that show a glimpse of what to expect. The highs (getting interviews), lows (rejection), and one of the most important events in your entire graduate school education (your internship placement). 25% of people nationally do not match.....and that is a mix of less qualified, moderately qualified, and some top students. It feels like a complete crapshoot, which is the hardest thing about the process.