Taking Legal Action after Dismissal

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Smiths11

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I won't go into too much detail, but I want the board's opinion on this matter. I was dismissed from school during my 2nd year, appealed and lost, and tried to convince my Dean to take me back or repeat the year, and lost again. I think I have a good argument to be allowed to repeat the year, and am considering having my attorney contact the school. I realize that I have no other options at this point, so this may be better than nothing. But I am worried that even if my lawyer helps me get back into the school, that they will hold a grudge against me, and give me problems with everything from getting into rotations, getting letters of rec, getting residency slots, etc. I'm afraid that in the end that even if I "win", I might end up with a lot more debt and they will do everything they can to not allow me to graduate. Maybe I am being too paranoid, I don't know.

So has anyone, or does anyone know who has successfully used a legal threat/action to get back into school after dismissal? And afterwards, how did they fare? I don't want to end up in the same situation a year or two years from now, or in a residency program that I don't want to be in, all with extra debt, and be miserable, all because the school hates me for involving a lawyer.

Thanks for your replies.
 
I don't see how you would have a case unless they discriminated against you in a very obvious way or failed to follow their due process.
Good luck, but I don't see how you can make them take you back under nearly any circumstances. An attorney would take you on if you have the cash to pay his hourly fees though, that's certain.
 
Smiths11 said:
I won't go into too much detail, but I want the board's opinion on this matter. I was dismissed from school during my 2nd year, appealed and lost, and tried to convince my Dean to take me back or repeat the year, and lost again. I think I have a good argument to be allowed to repeat the year, and am considering having my attorney contact the school. I realize that I have no other options at this point, so this may be better than nothing. But I am worried that even if my lawyer helps me get back into the school, that they will hold a grudge against me, and give me problems with everything from getting into rotations, getting letters of rec, getting residency slots, etc. I'm afraid that in the end that even if I "win", I might end up with a lot more debt and they will do everything they can to not allow me to graduate. Maybe I am being too paranoid, I don't know.

So has anyone, or does anyone know who has successfully used a legal threat/action to get back into school after dismissal? And afterwards, how did they fare? I don't want to end up in the same situation a year or two years from now, or in a residency program that I don't want to be in, all with extra debt, and be miserable, all because the school hates me for involving a lawyer.

Thanks for your replies.
Click to expand...

Sue the school all you want to get back in the class.. MAYBE

Have your lawyer present your case and change the case from dismissed to withdrawn. MAYBE MORE, then you transfer wherver and finish and not finish at bull**** school
 
I'm not trying to be dismissive with this question so please don't take it the wrong way...but other than the fact that you don't like the outcome thus far, what is your basis for suing?

As others have said, unless there is some reason to think they violated their own policies/procedures, or some evidence of discrimination, I don't really see what the claim would be.
 
Winged Scapula said:
Not to a US school.
Click to expand...

That stinks!

I know a few people who transferred to Caribbean from US schools, under less-than-favorable circumstances. Despite having no proof or expertise to back this up: My gut says it's a huge liability when applying to programs.

OP could probably start from scratch, but someone who struggled emotionally in the US might have an even tougher time being away from home. Especially considering Caribbean schools (mine at least) aren't known for being too supportive when students have issues.
 
Winged Scapula said:
The OP has posted extensively elsewhere in this forum as to the reasons for his dismissal (for those wondering).
Click to expand...

Lovely gems from that post:
"I got dismissed my 2nd year of Medical School due to multiple failures."

"Also this is a separate topic, but if I do graduate from a foreign school, how bad are my chances for anything other than IM, FM, Peds, Psych? None of those fields interest me. I have always wanted EM, Anesthesia or possibly Radiology."

Talk about a total lack of insight. OP, have you heard of the sayings "beggars can't be choosers" and "fools rush in where angels fear to tread"?
 
Yeah, OP. Getting an attorney is going to not let you win this case, especially if due process was done as outlined in the student handbook regarding failures and all that.

The most you could do is ask the school to change you from 'dismissed' to 'withdrawn' and then go to a different school.
 
I'd love to do Med/Psych! No idea why so many people look down on internal and psych.

Wanting to avoid Peds makes sense because you have to deal with parents, LOL!
 
This almost happened to us, except that he(my husband) would've had to repeat a year, and possibly graduate a year later. We were lucky because we have 2 lawyers, a school director, principal and a classical English grad student who grades and corrects term papers and what not for a living. We had to scale back anything that seemed confrontational and placed blame on the attending, residents and their team to win. It wasn't a complete win, but he did come to an agreement to repeat 2-3weeks of that rotation during the summer. We'll take that.

I honestly don't know what to tell you because I feel like we narrowly dodged a bullet ourselves and prob just got lucky. I hope you find an attorney that has experience with your type of issue and will give you honest legal free advice before you decide to fight the school. If you can prove that it was the school's fault for not providing you with the proper tools to pass then go ahead, if not maybe its not worth the trouble. You've got alot to think about and I'm so sorry for the problems you're facing. Good fortune dear.

Sent from my RM-877_nam_att_205 using Tapatalk
 
Unless they blatantly discriminated against you for some reason, there's really not much you can do. You can sue but it probably won't do anything. Why were you dismissed?
 
Honestly, I think if you really want to do medicine, you should shoot for something other than medical school. PA or NP. Or get an MPH and work on the policy/statistics side of things. Hiring a lawyer probably isn't going to help you, as you've already been through the appeals process, and going international is just going to mean more debt and getting stuck at the residency application process.
 
chondroblast said:
Unless they blatantly discriminated against you for some reason, there's really not much you can do. You can sue but it probably won't do anything. Why were you dismissed?
Click to expand...

Looks like multiple failures
 
Smiths11 said:
I won't go into too much detail, but I want the board's opinion on this matter. I was dismissed from school during my 2nd year, appealed and lost, and tried to convince my Dean to take me back or repeat the year, and lost again. I think I have a good argument to be allowed to repeat the year, and am considering having my attorney contact the school. I realize that I have no other options at this point, so this may be better than nothing. But I am worried that even if my lawyer helps me get back into the school, that they will hold a grudge against me, and give me problems with everything from getting into rotations, getting letters of rec, getting residency slots, etc. I'm afraid that in the end that even if I "win", I might end up with a lot more debt and they will do everything they can to not allow me to graduate. Maybe I am being too paranoid, I don't know.

So has anyone, or does anyone know who has successfully used a legal threat/action to get back into school after dismissal? And afterwards, how did they fare? I don't want to end up in the same situation a year or two years from now, or in a residency program that I don't want to be in, all with extra debt, and be miserable, all because the school hates me for involving a lawyer.

Thanks for your replies.
Click to expand...

You should be ashamed of yourself for suing your school because you failed out and they refused to readmit you.
 
No medical school has ever been successfully sued if it was shown that dismissal wasn't arbitrary or capricious. I suggest that you consider a new career. FYI, at my school, we reject people who have been matriculated at other medical schools, and so other DO programs. Thus, that route is likely closed. PM me if you think you have a different take on your dismissal.


Smiths11 said:
I won't go into too much detail, but I want the board's opinion on this matter. I was dismissed from school during my 2nd year, appealed and lost, and tried to convince my Dean to take me back or repeat the year, and lost again. I think I have a good argument to be allowed to repeat the year, and am considering having my attorney contact the school. I realize that I have no other options at this point, so this may be better than nothing. But I am worried that even if my lawyer helps me get back into the school, that they will hold a grudge against me, and give me problems with everything from getting into rotations, getting letters of rec, getting residency slots, etc. I'm afraid that in the end that even if I "win", I might end up with a lot more debt and they will do everything they can to not allow me to graduate. Maybe I am being too paranoid, I don't know.

So has anyone, or does anyone know who has successfully used a legal threat/action to get back into school after dismissal? And afterwards, how did they fare? I don't want to end up in the same situation a year or two years from now, or in a residency program that I don't want to be in, all with extra debt, and be miserable, all because the school hates me for involving a lawyer.

Thanks for your replies.
Click to expand...
 
Winged Scapula said:
The OP has posted extensively elsewhere in this forum as to the reasons for his dismissal (for those wondering).
Click to expand...

Because the people who post about why they were dismissed on this forum always tell the entirety of the situation without omitting certain details and they never spin certain details in a way that makes it seem better than they actually are lol

I know a number of people who failed out but then got readmitted. Maybe my school is just really lenient. But it makes me wonder if there's something special about his situation that caused his school to not take him back in.

Especially peculiar because he seems to strongly be considering legal action. That isn't going to do anything at all, besides waste money and time, if you were simply dismissed for failed classes.
 
Your school must be lenient. My school won't readmit anyone who's ever been to medical school before.
Failing enough classes to be given the boot is not a good sign. I would look into foreign options. Even Caribbean schools have a hard time accepting people who have been kicked out though.
 
chondroblast said:
Your school must be lenient. My school won't readmit anyone who's ever been to medical school before.
Failing enough classes to be given the boot is not a good sign. I would look into foreign options. Even Caribbean schools have a hard time accepting people who have been kicked out though.
Click to expand...

True.

I know someone who was kicked out during late third year. It took applying to 5 or 6 places before getting another chance to finish. Basically, no one wanted a problem student. Clerkship slots are like gold to Caribbean schools and bringing someone in with a bad clerkship history is very risky.

TBH, I don't know how favorably transfer student applications are looked upon when transcripts get reviewed. It could be a "This person really had drama. No thanks" or "They faced an adversity and didn't quit. Maybe we should at least meet them"

The people I know who have done well*, after being kicked out of a US school, started again from scratch. In OP's case, that might be an option after a lot of serious soul searching.

* Matched.
 
If you can't handle "drama" in medical school, how are you going to handle "drama" in residency or when you're an attending? I wouldn't want my surgeon to botch his surgery because his wife decided to file for divorce. Personally unless the OP was discriminated against, I don't think there's any reason he should be readmitted. He couldn't handle the rigor of a US medical school plain and simple.
 
chondroblast said:
If you can't handle "drama" in medical school, how are you going to handle "drama" in residency or when you're an attending? I wouldn't want my surgeon to botch his surgery because his wife decided to file for divorce. Personally unless the OP was discriminated against, I don't think there's any reason he should be readmitted. He couldn't handle the rigor of a US medical school plain and simple.
Click to expand...

I think you've pretty much summed-up what OP would be dealing with. Stories about people overcoming a disability, circumstance, set-back, etc... are great but many of those entering the medical field have see difficulty dealing with an issue as a sign of weakness. I don't know if it's a sign of people lacking life experience or simply that some are so sheltered that relating to a failure, taking a loss badly, or needing psychiatric help, etc... is something they really can't identify with.

Once thing is sure... medicine will have a pretty interesting future with so much compassion. 🙂

Don't take the post as being singled out, chondroblast. You just happened to post how a majority of others do threads where blood is smelled.
 
southernIM said:
The issue with the OP is how he let it spiral, without seeking out help, or without recognizing the seriousness of its impact on his life. Heck the basis of his appeal was psychiatric illness and he had not even sought out a professional evaluation, much less developed a treatment plan.
Click to expand...
I believe this is the key factor in the reason for the failure of appeal.

In my experience as a member of a credentialing committee, the most important question, when faced with a lapse in education, training, or practice or a problem affecting the ability to practice, is, "what have they done about it?"

I've never seen a wholesale lack of compassion on any of these committees. In most cases, members want to readmit the student or grant that license or hospital privileges. But in doing our due diligence, it is imperative to see what steps the applicant has taken to rectify the problem. That's where the OP failed.
 
I don't know about this specific situation, but I know two students sued at a particular medical school, which I won't out, to get passing grades (after they already failed) in a first year course. And guess what, the school passed them because they didn't want to deal with the lawsuit.
 
Goro said:
No medical school has ever been successfully sued if it was shown that dismissal wasn't arbitrary or capricious.
Click to expand...
I personally know of 2 exceptions to this statement, in US MD schools. Get a good enough lawyer and you can do anything. But no matter what, you still have to figure out how to get through med school, and no matter what, you have a gap in your education that you have to explain forever.

Time to quit. C'mon, pack it in.
 
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