FutureDPM

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Okay so I have a question regarding Western university's program and their decision to have POD students take the USMLE. What are people's opinion in taking the USMLE vs the normal exam that pod students take. During my interview, I had a kid who was constantly talking about how great Western University is for allowing students to take the USMLE because "just in-case" he gets bored of podiatry, he can easily take USMLE Step 3 and become a DO or MD. How true is that or was he just mistaken?
 

damhsoir

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Wow. I highly doubt you can do that. If so why don't you hear about DOs that take the USMLE step 3 to become MDs? Maybe while he's at it he can take the certification tests to be a PA/DDS/RN too. He would be raking in the dough! :laugh:

Sounds like that kid knows nothing about podiatry and is applying because he couldn't get into MD/DO school. And if he actually researched more before he applied he would know about the multifaceted nature of podiatry. "Just-in-case" he gets bored...LAME. :thumbdown:
 

iceman69

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Wow. I highly doubt you can do that. If so why don't you hear about DOs that take the USMLE step 3 to become MDs? Maybe while he's at it he can take the certification tests to be a PA/DDS/RN too. He would be raking in the dough! :laugh:

Sounds like that kid knows nothing about podiatry and is applying because he couldn't get into MD/DO school. And if he actually researched more before he applied he would know about the multifaceted nature of podiatry. "Just-in-case" he gets bored...LAME. :thumbdown:

Many DOs do in fact become MDs by virtue of passing a test. Feel free to look it up. It has been done by many DOs in the past and will be done by many more, so that their pts are not confused if they're a "real" doctor. If the kid writes the USMLE and knocks it out of the park that's great, and if he can find some residency to accept him and train him competently, super. Who cares what others do, so long as you're satisified with your career choice?
 
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JEWmongous

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Many DOs do in fact become MDs by virtue of passing a test. Feel free to look it up. It has been done by many DOs in the past and will be done by many more, so that their pts are not confused if they're a "real" doctor. If the kid writes the USMLE and knocks it out of the park that's great, and if he can find some residency to accept him and train him competently, super. Who cares what others do, so long as you're satisified with your career choice?
Are you sure about this??? I know that DO's can take the USMLE to access the MD residencies, but in the end, they are still DO's. Their initials are NOT changed regardless of the fact they completed an allopathic residency.

The only time I have heard of DO's being "changed" to MD's was a case in California in 1962. Osteopaths who did this received the Doctorate of Medicine degree and were not allowed to call themselves DO's anymore.
 

damhsoir

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I'm sure a lot of people that read this thread were thinking "why on earth is this kid applying to a pod school if he isn't sure about podiatry". That's why I wrote what I did...

It just seems silly to me. And what if you don't pass the USMLE then you're stuck working as a podiatrist even though you are bored with it?
 

Gryhu

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Get bored? One of the cool aspects of podiatry is that it encompasses so many things that you rarely do the same exact thing everyday. You get to see a wide range of pathologies.
 

zephryus14

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Contrary to any beliefs, you CANNOT become an MD just by taking the USMLE exam. My best guess is that Western is encouraging students to take the USMLE for parity's sake. There's even a push from certain sectors of podiatry for students to take the USMLE with the MD students. I've talked to Dr. Harkless a few times concerning the field of podiatry and Western University. Every time we speak he talks at length about how not enough is being done to show parity and how we, as students, can do more to help show our MD/DO colleagues that we're on the same level. This would be one way to show them.
 

JEWmongous

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Contrary to any beliefs, you CANNOT become an MD just by taking the USMLE exam. My best guess is that Western is encouraging students to take the USMLE for parity's sake. There's even a push from certain sectors of podiatry for students to take the USMLE with the MD students. I've talked to Dr. Harkless a few times concerning the field of podiatry and Western University. Every time we speak he talks at length about how not enough is being done to show parity and how we, as students, can do more to help show our MD/DO colleagues that we're on the same level. This would be one way to show them.
This sounds pretty interesting, especially with Western podiatry pushing the USMLE when it is an osteopathic medical school. This has been brought up before but let's say pod students are allowed to take the USMLE/COMLEX...and the overall average is quite bad. Couldn't this create more flak for us - especially when it comes down to state scope of practice issues.
 

NAVYLABTECH08

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People, listen to what some of you are saying. You must pass step 1 before you can enter MS3. You must pass step 2 before you graduate. This must be done before even looking at step 3, which is usually taken duing or before completion of residency. Also, the curriculum is kinda similar for year 1 and sorta for year 2, which means you may be ok for step 1. POD year 3/4 is 99.9% different from MD/Do 3 & 4. Year 3/4 prepares pod students to enter pod residencies and focus mainly on mechanics and center of mass in relationshp tp the lower limbs. 3/4 MD looks at this same concept totally dfferent and also has to prepare the studento assess the entire body. This means the POD student has a big disadvantage when prepping to Step 2 CS & CK.

#1: You can't switch your DO to MD based on one single test. If this is the case, why even bother trying to get into a md program when the slightly easier DO route is right there. What actually happens is that DOs must pass the COMPLEX. The COMPLEX is the actuall license test for DOs. By only taking the COmplex, you are only able to complete DO residencies. By taking the USLMS STEPS and doing really good, the DO is now able to apply for allopath residencies. Thsi means that MD & DO essentially undergo the same residency and can do the same job. Threre is no difference in pay in many cases, but you can't just switch your initals from DO to MD. This is why lots of kids go to the carib schools to get the MD instead of DO to avoid patietn confusion.

#2: Passing USMLE step 3 does not mean DPM can just magically switch career paths to md/do. if Western is asking you to take this test, is is purely to assess their students opn some scale. The only way a POD becomes MD or DO is to get in and complete MD or DO school. PAss steps and apply for residency.
 

NAVYLABTECH08

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Contrary to any beliefs, you CANNOT become an MD just by taking the USMLE exam. My best guess is that Western is encouraging students to take the USMLE for parity's sake. There's even a push from certain sectors of podiatry for students to take the USMLE with the MD students. I've talked to Dr. Harkless a few times concerning the field of podiatry and Western University. Every time we speak he talks at length about how not enough is being done to show parity and how we, as students, can do more to help show our MD/DO colleagues that we're on the same level. This would be one way to show them.

No disrespect, but you are not on the same level. Not from a smart stand point, but because the differences in yr 2-4 curriculum. In retrospect, MDs/Dos,including orthro, is not in the same ball park with PODS in regards to the lower limbs. Unless Western has a MD/DO curriculum for yrs 1-4, there is no need for parity. Why?
 

runner0382

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Is this an option or the requirement for Western students?

They've never mentioned it to me! I thought Western's students would all take the same test as the other pods' students, and since our curriculum IS very different than MD, why bother?
 

iceman69

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#1: You can't switch your DO to MD based on one single test. If this is the case, why even bother trying to get into a md program when the slightly easier DO route is right there. What actually happens is that DOs must pass the COMPLEX. The COMPLEX is the actuall license test for DOs. By only taking the COmplex, you are only able to complete DO residencies. By taking the USLMS STEPS and doing really good, the DO is now able to apply for allopath residencies. Thsi means that MD & DO essentially undergo the same residency and can do the same job. Threre is no difference in pay in many cases, but you can't just switch your initals from DO to MD. This is why lots of kids go to the carib schools to get the MD instead of DO to avoid patietn confusion.

The above is not how DOs become MDs. After they have completed their training, they can if they want, take a single test an become and MD. It may not be as common these days, but it still happens. It mainly occurs with specialists that are in DO unfriendly specialties, or areas.
 

JEWmongous

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The above is not how DOs become MDs. After they have completed their training, they can if they want, take a single test an become and MD. It may not be as common these days, but it still happens. It mainly occurs with specialists that are in DO unfriendly specialties, or areas.
Like I said before, I don't think this is true at all. I am not sure where you obtained this information from. A DO degree is from an osteopathic medical school (ie Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine, Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine). Just taking a test is not going to magically change your degree to Lake Erie College of Allopathic Medicine.

I'll say it again, the ONLY instance in history where DO's had the options of changing their degrees to MD's was in 1962 in California. It involved a small fee and a short seminar course. This was a huge issue, which even involved UC Irvine, a DO school at the time, being changed to an MD granting medical school.
 
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NAVYLABTECH08

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#1: You can't switch your DO to MD based on one single test. If this is the case, why even bother trying to get into a md program when the slightly easier DO route is right there. What actually happens is that DOs must pass the COMPLEX. The COMPLEX is the actuall license test for DOs. By only taking the COmplex, you are only able to complete DO residencies. By taking the USLMS STEPS and doing really good, the DO is now able to apply for allopath residencies. Thsi means that MD & DO essentially undergo the same residency and can do the same job. Threre is no difference in pay in many cases, but you can't just switch your initals from DO to MD. This is why lots of kids go to the carib schools to get the MD instead of DO to avoid patietn confusion.

The above is not how DOs become MDs. After they have completed their training, they can if they want, take a single test an become and MD. It may not be as common these days, but it still happens. It mainly occurs with specialists that are in DO unfriendly specialties, or areas.

ICEMAN69,

I hate to sound crass but you are going to make me do it. You sir have absolutely 0% knowledge of which you are talking about. This may have happened once or twice 50 yrs ago, but it does not happen today. Your knowledge of osteo medicine is terrible to say the least. Osteo medical approach is very much different from allopath approach. One treats the body as a whole while the other treats the individual symptoms. I see where you are obviously confused. You have no clue what a DO is. You think that a DO can only do primary care and if a DO specializes, he is now a MD. WRONG WRONG WRONG ICEMAN69 WRONG! This individual is now just a specialized DO that happenend to learn via an allopath residency. Stop putting bad information on this site so people can spread more bad information. Do you research and actually know what you are talking about before you attempt to correct someone else.

#1: Does it make a lick of sense for a student to try yr after yr for MD to avoid confusing the patient with DO initials when he or she can just simply take the DO spot, which is much easier to get into? Then judt take the USMLE and switch your initals to MD.

#2:To get into some DO schools. you need lORs from DOs, not MDs. Hence, the schools want applicants to shadow DOs, not MDs or "DO converted MDs that do not exist."

#3: Go to the Osteopath forum and get one of those Osteo STUDENTS or ATTENDING to agree with you. If not, YOU ARE WRONG!
 

NAVYLABTECH08

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Is this an option or the requirement for Western students?

They've never mentioned it to me! I thought Western's students would all take the same test as the other pods' students, and since our curriculum IS very different than MD, why bother?

:thumbup:
 

iceman69

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ICEMAN69,

I hate to sound crass but you are going to make me do it. You sir have absolutely 0% knowledge of which you are talking about. This may have happened once or twice 50 yrs ago, but it does not happen today. Your knowledge of osteo medicine is terrible to say the least. Osteo medical approach is very much different from allopath approach. One treats the body as a whole while the other treats the individual symptoms. I see where you are obviously confused. You have no clue what a DO is. You think that a DO can only do primary care and if a DO specializes, he is now a MD. WRONG WRONG WRONG ICEMAN69 WRONG! This individual is now just a specialized DO that happenend to learn via an allopath residency. Stop putting bad information on this site so people can spread more bad information. Do you research and actually know what you are talking about before you attempt to correct someone else.

#1: Does it make a lick of sense for a student to try yr after yr for MD to avoid confusing the patient with DO initials when he or she can just simply take the DO spot, which is much easier to get into? Then judt take the USMLE and switch your initals to MD.

#2:To get into some DO schools. you need lORs from DOs, not MDs. Hence, the schools want applicants to shadow DOs, not MDs or "DO converted MDs that do not exist."

#3: Go to the Osteopath forum and get one of those Osteo STUDENTS or ATTENDING to agree with you. If not, YOU ARE WRONG!
Squiddy,
You don't know dick. There's no reason to be an *******. I truly have never posted anything that is not accurate. What I have said is true. I was told this by an DO faculty member at MSU's college of osteopathy. You truthfully do not know a bit of anything about getting into real medical school. You might know something about getting into pod school, but that is no real feat my friend. I got into both MD and DPM school without a problem...You're best bet to find proof of what I say is to look at orthopedists. You'll find a few that went to AT kirksville (DO school) that have MD after their name, and they weren't old enough to be practicing in the 1950's.
 

DiverDoc

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Well there is a lot of incorrect info in this thread. First of all, its not COMPLEX, its COMLEX.

Osteopathic medical students are eligible to take the USMLE to boost their resume and gain an allopathic residency. Many programs out there recognize COMLEX and there are a lot that are dual teaching hospitals. That is, they have AOA and AMA accredited residency training programs within the same walls. Taking the USMLE does NOT make you an MD, because guess what, you still graduated from a DO school. ---- where your post name initials come from.
 

Feli

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Well there is a lot of incorrect info in this thread. First of all, its not COMPLEX, its COMLEX.

Osteopathic medical students are eligible to take the USMLE to boost their resume and gain an allopathic residency. Many programs out there recognize COMLEX and there are a lot that are dual teaching hospitals. That is, they have AOA and AMA accredited residency training programs within the same walls. Taking the USMLE does NOT make you an MD, because guess what, you still graduated from a DO school. ---- where your post name initials come from.
Yep^... DO students taking USMLE is just to gain consideration for allo residencies, not to change the degree their school can/will award them at graduation :thumbup:

...There's really no reason for pod students to sit for the USMLE aside from trying to prove a point. Since you graduate with a DPM degree; you are still only elgible for for pod med and surg residency when you graduate. If your pod school will pay for USMLE pt1 and you want to take it around the time you take pt1 pod boards, then so be it. Personally, I think it'd be a waste of time and money. Does pod school prep you to take the USMLE pt1 exam? Probably. Pts 2 and 3? No (just like most MD or DO students would do poorly on NBPME pts 2 and 3 unless they studied differently). The education is similar early on, but it's also different, especially in the clinical years.
 

air bud

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we are/are going to be podiatrists. Podiatry=foot and ankle. That is what the DPM degree is for. We have are own test. Who cares about the USMLE and MD? Learn to get over your personal issues regarding your self worth or why ever you would want to take the USMLE, or they will keep haunting you the rest of your lives.
 

uberconfuzzled

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I'm confused. I thought that a medical student was only eligible for the USMLE if he/she was enrolled or have graduated from an accredited program that awards the MD/DO degree. Are we, as DPMs, even allowed to take it?? I got all the eligibility info from the USMLE site...

Besides, we're in the podiatry forum. Why are we arguing about whether or not a DO can become an MD??
 

NAVYLABTECH08

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Squiddy,
You don't know dick. There's no reason to be an *******. I truly have never posted anything that is not accurate. What I have said is true. I was told this by an DO faculty member at MSU's college of osteopathy. You truthfully do not know a bit of anything about getting into real medical school. You might know something about getting into pod school, but that is no real feat my friend. I got into both MD and DPM school without a problem...You're best bet to find proof of what I say is to look at orthopedists. You'll find a few that went to AT kirksville (DO school) that have MD after their name, and they weren't old enough to be practicing in the 1950's.

You were told WRONG INFORMATION. I got a pathologist I worked with from Kirksville to write my LOR for med school. His initials were DO. He completed a Allopath residency and is still considered a DO. If your foolish docs changed their initials from DO to Md, they are doing so illegally and are at risks of liablity and looking stupid amongst other MD/DO physicians. Bring it turd!:mad:
 

NAVYLABTECH08

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Yep^... DO students taking USMLE is just to gain consideration for allo residencies, not to change the degree their school can/will award them at graduation :thumbup:

...There's really no reason for pod students to sit for the USMLE aside from trying to prove a point. Since you graduate with a DPM degree; you are still only elgible for for pod med and surg residency when you graduate. If your pod school will pay for USMLE pt1 and you want to take it around the time you take pt1 pod boards, then so be it. Personally, I think it'd be a waste of time and money. Does pod school prep you to take the USMLE pt1 exam? Probably. Pts 2 and 3? No (just like most MD or DO students would do poorly on NBPME pts 2 and 3 unless they studied differently). The education is similar early on, but it's also different, especially in the clinical years.

Feli is 100% correct
 

justtesting

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#1: You can't switch your DO to MD based on one single test. If this is the case, why even bother trying to get into a md program when the slightly easier DO route is right there. What actually happens is that DOs must pass the COMPLEX. The COMPLEX is the actuall license test for DOs. By only taking the COmplex, you are only able to complete DO residencies. By taking the USLMS STEPS and doing really good, the DO is now able to apply for allopath residencies. Thsi means that MD & DO essentially undergo the same residency and can do the same job. Threre is no difference in pay in many cases, but you can't just switch your initals from DO to MD. This is why lots of kids go to the carib schools to get the MD instead of DO to avoid patietn confusion.

The above is not how DOs become MDs. After they have completed their training, they can if they want, take a single test an become and MD. It may not be as common these days, but it still happens. It mainly occurs with specialists that are in DO unfriendly specialties, or areas.
If you're so sure a test like this exists, just prove everyone wrong and tell us the name of it. I have a couple DO attending friends who would love to know about it.
 
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biomechanicsrox

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Just a few quick things to add to this argument:

DOs do not need to take the USMLE to be eligible for an allopathic residency. While some programs do require the USMLE, there are also many that will accept the COMLEX alone. Taking the USMLE basically provides the residency program a means of comparison with MD students.

As for podiatry students taking the USMLE, representatives from the APMA are currently in talks with the USMLE people. Currently no decision has officially been made. The APMA does not want to set podiatry students up for failure if we are not adequately prepared by our curriculums to take the USMLE. We as podiatry students may have the option in the future to take the USMLE, however changes may just be made to our current board exams to better evaluate our competency. This information does not reflect my opinion. It is straight from an APMA board member.
 

hyperpodia

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Do pod students actually take all the required courses to take USMLE step 1?

I think for parity, it would be helpful if all schools required MCAT for admissions and required students to take USMLE part 1 (if AMA will allow)
 

densmore22

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Podiatry students are not allowed to sit for the USMLE at this time, as someone elluded to in a previous post, it's not only because we don't have the curriculum to back up taking the test, we just aren't elligible altogether at this time. You need a letter from your dean (to sit for ANY board exam in ANY medical professions school) stating you are in good academic standing to sit for the exam. The administers and interpreters of the USMLE do not recognize Podiatry students to sit for this exam. It is being looked in to (rather seriously) if we need to take it or not. However, you must remember that part I boards test over cumulative knowledge of the first 2 years of medical/osteopathic/podiatry school and, at least at DMU, we do not take systems pathology courses that are in depth enough to sit for the USMLE. We get them, just not the level that the DO students take it at.

Also, there exists no test, in the history of the world, where you can take it as a DO to switch your credentials to MD.

Whoever posted that, needs to get their info straight and stop passing on bogus and bad information because too many people come on here and take what is written as true facts and that is just a horribly wrong, misconstrued lie. Whether you meant to do it or you are just misinformed yourself is another issue, but STOP DOING THAT. Make sure your sources are informed and your facts are straight.

I think we should start Evidenced Based posting just like you have to get Evidenced Based Medicine in 3rd year and beyond.
 

Feli

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...I think we should start Evidenced Based posting just like you have to get Evidenced Based Medicine in 3rd year and beyond.
That sounds like a lotta work.

...don't you think it's easier to just spread rumors or make stuff up?
 

densmore22

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It is too much work. But on the other hand, writing the same thing over and over and over and over again on the same subjects, giving the same answers is turning into a lot of work too.

On a personal note, EBM has COMPLETELY ruined my joy in reading newspaper articles or magazine articles because I'm constantly questioning the validity of the writer or of his source. Pretty lame.
 

FutureDPM

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FYI, I was personally told by the Dean as well as Dr. Jones that we are 'required' to take USMLE 1 and 2 at Western University. In addition, if we don't pass Step 1, they will not allow us to go on to our 3rd and 4th years. So I didn't really just wake up one day and make it up.
 

densmore22

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Never said podiatry students weren't going to sit for the USMLE in the future. Western's program is 2 years away from having their 1st class sit for part I boards so that may in fact be true, but as of right now, we are not elligible to sit for the USMLE and personally, I don't think I'd be comfortable taking it. You'll soon find out that on our own boards there's enough subjective material on it that when you walk out of it, you can just shake your head. I guarantee you, you'll think you failed part I the second you leave the room. Now imagine taking the USMLE where we only have 1/2 of the required classes to prepare you to take it. Not very conducive to passing it, IMO. Can people pass it...YES. Will more people fail it than fail NBPME...YES.
 

meister

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blah blah blah spreading misinformation about DOs somehow changing their degree to MD
Hey, look at how clueless you are. I just wanted to reply and let you know that you are in fact 100% incorrect. There is no test for DOs to take to "become" MDs. Do you understand what those initials mean? It's the degree you earn. How can someone simply modify what degree they have ex post facto? This is 2008, not 40+ years ago.

There would be absolutely no point in a DO changing his initials to MD other than aesthetics and deciding to which board of medicine he wants to send his renewal fees.
 

DJ Quik

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DO's CAN BECOME MD's!! They Take the the USMLE after their second year of MD school, and complete their MD school training. Well, I guess they would actually be MDDO's.

Read the post slowly if its confusing. Its actually supposed to be funny.
:xf:
 

Gryhu

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sweet jesus what kind of loser is a lab "tech" could you not make it in the seals! pathetic! what a loser man you need to stop posting random crap you are a BI TCH with no future and jewmongous is much more knowledgable and so are so many others like feli and the like i mean you are a F UCK ING joke! ill bet you rape horses and seaman

I know this is a forum where everyone is free to say what they want, but don't you think that was a little over-the-top? There's no need to take it to that level. This is supposed to be a forum where professionals and pre-professionals can ask questions and get answers. What's the need for that kind of language?

Rape horses and seaman? :uhno:
 

Gryhu

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Banned for Trolling

That was quick, lol.
 

215512

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holy smokes that team player was banned already! awesome
 
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