TCU UNTHSC School of Medicine Vs. Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine (TCOM)

[thedude001]

Hi all, hoping to be admitted by both (2 WL, OOS) and both are conveniently located in Fort Worth, Tx. I would love to hear thoughts and whether anyone has any knowledge regarding the Texas schools.

TCU UNT SOM

-brand new MD, first class this summer

-private and $$$ (57.5K tuition with the first year free as charter member)

-60 student class, lots of support, no student ranking, P/F

-true flipped classroom, lectures are just team-based problem solving

-integrating a longitudinal integrated clerkship beginning 2nd year that has you 1:1 with a preceptor for a half day a week for 52 weeks for each specialty

-still able to use UNTHSC resources, but has its own building on campus

-focus on making the physician of the future with a focus on student and patient success

TCOM

-#1 DO (highest COMLEX in the nation)

-very cheap (16.5K)

-8-5 lectures, but are not mandatory and recorded to watch whenever (2 year preclinical) and P/F

-lots of research funding compared to other DO programs

-230 students per class

-60% primary care match

-2019 Match included programs like Mayo, Vanderbilt, Baylor COM, UT Southwestern

Aside from the financial aspect, I'm trying to look at it from multiple viewpoints. As someone who is undecided about specialties, I'm just trying to figure out which will afford me with the most opportunities in the future. Thanks for any help!

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[sebass]

One of the few cases I would say DO is the safer bet, considering we know TCOM is a great school and matches well. The question has to be whether TCU+UNT will give you a greater opportunity to match where you want and we can't just automatically assume that it will just because it is an MD school. If we had UTRGVs match list and it was stronger than TCOMs I would be arguing in the other direction but we unfortunately can't know that yet. What you definitely don't want to do is match into a place you would have gotten into anyway while also paying $100k more for it (assuming TCU+UNT doesn't pay for the other 3 years).

 

[girl.gone.medical]

TCOM is quite literally the best DO school in the nation. They also have flipped classrooms and problem based learning! I’ve heard amazing things about it - and their students are known all over the nation for being just stellar on rotations. Like you mentioned above, they matched to places like Vanderbilt, mayo, southwestern, etc all this year. Highest COMLEX in the nations. I’d go with the well-known, reputable TCOM over the new school any day. DO vs. MD isn’t a thing anymore. We all work together in the end and many residency programs in Texas favor DO students (especially fields like PMR, EM, Peds, Internal Medicine, and Family).

 

[girl.gone.medical]

Also, all these things you mentioned about the new TCU-UNT school are also true of TCOM (they modeled their school after TCOM!!):

- lots of support, no student ranking, P/F

-flipped classroom, lectures are team-based problem solving

-integrating a longitudinal integrated clerkship beginning 2nd year that has you 1:1 with a preceptor for a half day a week for 52 weeks for each specialty

-UNTHSC resources

-focus on making the physician of the future with a focus on student and patient success

 

[thedude001]

Also, all these things you mentioned about the new TCU-UNT school are also true of TCOM (they modeled their school after TCOM!!):

- lots of support, no student ranking, P/F

-flipped classroom, lectures are team-based problem solving

-integrating a longitudinal integrated clerkship beginning 2nd year that has you 1:1 with a preceptor for a half day a week for 52 weeks for each specialty

-UNTHSC resources

-focus on making the physician of the future with a focus on student and patient success

Thanks for your input, it is very much appreciated! But TCOM doesn't incorporate the longitudinal clerkship (yet), only 3 schools do: TCU, UA-Phoenix (where the new dean came from), and a cohort at Harvard. Not sure how beneficial that may be. Also, they are very vocal about NOT modeling after TCOM, the curriculum is totally different. They will share some resources like anatomy lab and rotation sites. But the match list definitely makes me unsure...

 

[JBM16BYU]

Hey! Current TCOM 4th year student here. If I had to choose again, I would choose TCOM every time. TCOM has provided me so many opportunities to succeed, from a robust OMM education to a solid systems based foundation, from the Pediatric Research Program in the Summer of my 1st year to the Betty Ford scholar experience. There were so many unique things about TCOM that we were literally quite set up to succeed. Like what has been mentioned before, we have the highest COMLEX average in the nation, many many of our students in addition take the USMLE and do quite well, and our matches this past year include places like the Mayo Clinic, Ohio State, Vanderbilt, Baylor, UT Southwestern, UCLA, Cleveland Clinic, etc. While it’s true that 60% of our class matched primary care, I personally know classmates who matched PM&R, Ortho, Ophtho, Derm, EM, ENT, Anesthesiology, OBGYN, Interventional Radiology, diagnostic Rads, Pathology, Med/Psych, Urology, General surgery and Neurology, to name a few. You can definitely succeed and find what you’re looking for if you come to TCOM. I know I did.

 

[DoctorSnow]

During my interviews at TCU, Dean Flynn also mentioned that all 60 students will be paired with a PI and will be doing multiple research projects (lots of chances to publish). I'm only familiar with TCU but if you are interested in molding a new medical school, take it. TCOM seems very focused with primary care (which is awesome) but TCU will not be closing any doors to residencies. Dean Flynn also said that they are trying to make tuition cheapest as possible or even free with more private donations from Texans.

 

[djtallahassee]

TCU for the MD. That small class size will prly be a benefit later on too.

 

[thedude001]

TCOM is quite literally the best DO school in the nation. They also have flipped classrooms and problem based learning! I’ve heard amazing things about it - and their students are known all over the nation for being just stellar on rotations. Like you mentioned above, they matched to places like Vanderbilt, mayo, southwestern, etc all this year. Highest COMLEX in the nations. I’d go with the well-known, reputable TCOM over the new school any day. DO vs. MD isn’t a thing anymore. We all work together in the end and many residency programs in Texas favor DO students (especially fields like PMR, EM, Peds, Internal Medicine, and Family).

Is there any way you can back this up?

 

[7331poas]

Look OP, you should always pick MD over DO. "Best DO school in the country" means absolutely nothing. Many of the impressive matches they have had are in Texas programs.

There are residency programs out there that will automatically not interview you because you are a DO.

Do not over think this, go to the MD program.

 

[libertyyne]

best DO school in the country or whatever doesnt mean squat when PDs have filters for the DO degree. Pick the MD, make your life easier.

 

[JBM16BYU]

I'm pretty sure that when they are saying "Best DO School in the Country" the basing it on the fact that TCOM actually had the highest COMLEX scores (board scores) in the nation. https://www.unthsc.edu/newsroom/story/tcom-class-of-2019-board-exam-scores-highest-in-nation/

As far as the comment about many of the impressive matches are in Texas, that's because 90% of the student body is from Texas. Many from Texas = many want to stay in Texas. Family is nearby. Need I remind that in the past 3 years, impressive NON-TEXAS matches from TCOM also include: the Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, UCLA, UC Davis, Ohio State, University of Missouri, Vanderbilt, University of Washington, Harvard, University of Utah, UPMC, Case Western, Johns Hopkins, Emory and Michigan State.

You will get an excellent education at TCOM, hand's down.

 

[Cath Up]

TCOM is quite literally the best DO school in the nation. They also have flipped classrooms and problem based learning! I’ve heard amazing things about it - and their students are known all over the nation for being just stellar on rotations. Like you mentioned above, they matched to places like Vanderbilt, mayo, southwestern, etc all this year. Highest COMLEX in the nations. I’d go with the well-known, reputable TCOM over the new school any day. DO vs. MD isn’t a thing anymore. We all work together in the end and many residency programs in Texas favor DO students (especially fields like PMR, EM, Peds, Internal Medicine, and Family).

WAT

Sure, your bolded statement rings pretty true in the workforce, which is great. And in an ideal world it would be true across the entirety of training. But in terms of obtaining residency (incredibly important) this statement is false to the point of absurdity. Some PDs (albeit a minority) legitimately screen out DOs for candidacy. There are like fewer than 20 DOs per year in historically ACGME dermatology residencies, and it's not because there are fewer than 20 qualified DOs interested in ACGME dermatology.

Let's look at the 2018 ACGME match for DOs applying dermatology:

14 successful matches total.

And to OP: I too have heard great things about TCOM and don't doubt that you would have success at either institution. Sure, there is some inherent risk about attending a brand new school, but with a small class size like 60, I think there is a lot lower risk. MDs have more residencies open to them, even compared to TCOM. I would attend the MD institution here, though relative to most applicants, I think this is a great choice to have to make. Best of luck to you.

 

[yellow787]

I too have been admitted to both. I am planning to visit TCU once more before the June 1st deadline to ask some questions.
Here is where I stand as of now- I am leaning towards TCU UNTHSC School of Medicine because of the innovative approach to medical education. I loved TCOM, really more than most of the other Texas MD programs. The vibe there and emphasis on making holistic doctors made it my top choice... until I interviewed and was accepted at TCU/UNTHSC.

I know there is some inherent risk in attending a new school but I do believe medicine is due for a drastic change in how physicians are educated. *if you’re interested I can send you some articles* So why would I attend a school that is still using an old model, albeit doing it really well, instead of a program that has identified the current and future problems facing medicine and is starting fresh with a new approach.

I had a great conversation with one of my fellow interviewees at the TCU/UNTSHC interview day. She had decided to stick to her TTUHSC match because she liked the standard model of medical education. Knowing exactly how pre-clinicals will look, knowing what board scores are like, what extracurricular exist, knowing what others before her have done and using that as a guide for her own future plans. This is indeed a great way to plan for your future. But this simply does not appeal to me. What excites me beyond belief is the idea of a blank slate. Of being able to start my own unique clubs. Being encouraged to constantly think outside of the norms of the program because no norms exist yet. Having 4 years on a longitudinal research project to really make my own. This is me. What appeals to you?

There is some animosity from some at TCOM about this new TCU program (some but definitely not all). There is also some misconception about what this new program is. It’s understandable but the reality is, this new program IS innovative. It is an entirely different approach to medicine from TCOM and all others. Not better not worse. Just different.
DO vs MD is becoming less and less of a factor each year. Furthermore, making a decision based on how others may perceive you is bound to lead to misery. So where do you see yourself thriving? What brings you more comfort? What excites you?

Idk I didn’t mean to ramble but I’ve put so so so much thought into this and figured it might help to share my rationale.

 

[Sleepingdoc]

In my view, a school with 50 years of tradition and well established state school with low tuition is better than a new MD school...
Eventually you will make the best of your medical education... not a school itself.The school just provides support for it.. Keep in mind that not all MD school graduates become a dermatologist/orthos.. most are in primary care... Paying 50000$ extra a year to reach the same goal does not seem to be a smart idea. By third/fourth year you will get a summary of the amount of loans you owe and realize how big a mountain you have to climb.

Med schools have brightest students weather you are MD or a DO. and you will be competing against the best.. And also understand that not everyone in your class of 200 will be a top 20 ranked and be eligible for the top specialty.. And the difference between the average of MD and DO schools might be the MCAT thats one point higher than the DO school... Ask the residents/doctors/attending how important MCAT is to your academic success in medschool, you might get laughed at.

You should do what makes you happy.. if being a DO makes you unhappy, do the MD route... this is just the premed craze .. once you are in med school.... no one cares and you wont have the time to care about it.. be proud of who you are. If after reading this post.. you are still debating between these schools because of the title DO or MD.. then please pick or reapply to a MD school ( you should not accept anything less than Harvard/Yale med school) and give that DO spot up for someone who deserves it and wants it.

 

[Isoval]

Current first year at TCOM / rising second year:

I have mixed opinions on this for a few reasons, and lean to believing that you should choose TCOM over TCU-SOM. My ultimate reasoning for this is as follows:

- TCOM is overwhelmingly cheaper than TCU-SOM even if we include the year of free tuition. TCU students will almost be paying more in one year than I will pay for the entirety of my medical education. Do not underestimate the gravity of deep student loans and don't brush them off with the BS statement of "well, I'll be making $xxxxx". I see this done all too often on SDN. Interest is a b**** and it'll follow you around for decades.

- TCOM's match list is very solid as-is. We consistently match comparable to middle-tier MD programs, with fields like dermatology, urology, ENT, optho, and orthosurg being represented every single year. We matched 9 general surgeries and 15 OB/G this year - more than any year prior - despite the disappearing AOA residencies. To counter the above, we have very strong matches in Texas - this is true - but also have very strong matches out of the state. This year, we matched three Interventional Radiology programs, two of which are at prominent non-Texas institutions (UTSW, UMiami, Mayo FL). We've also had multiple matches at Cleveland Clinic and JHU for the past couple of years, just naming a few. Let me be clear: I'm not going to funnel BS down your throat that being a DO will not limit the number of programs to which you can apply. But there will still be more programs in every single specialty interested in your application than you could reasonably apply to. In other words, you will have no trouble matching your desired specialty if you are a strong candidate that picks their battles wisely.

- TCOM and TCU faculty are almost identical and students from both schools will have access to identical resources. I've seen some people here mention that TCU students will be matched with a PI from day one. Wonderful. But TCOM students can seek these labs or PIs out - which are on our campus, by the way - on their own with no obligation to do so. This part is important. If you want out of the lab, if you decide you're no longer interested in the project, etc., etc., you have the power to choose easily. This is not the case when research projects are a requirement of the institution. My class thinks it's hilarious that future TCU students are going to pay triple the price for what equates to essentially the same thing.

And for the record, TCOM has both the highest COMLEX and Step 1 averages of all DO schools, with our Step 1 average being solidly in the upper half of all Texas medical schools with over 80% of our classes sitting for the exam.

Most of the people who came here to drop a "MD is always better than DO" on prinicple seem to know very little about the two specific schools in question. This is what happens when you throw a blanket statement over everything. In my class in particular, I know multiple people who turned down other US-MD acceptances to come here. You would not be the first to do so, OP.

 

[thegrind33]

TCOMs a nice school. If I was interested in a primary care field I’d choose tcom because of the price, if I wanted to do something more competitive I’d go with tcu. It’s all about what you wanna do op

 

[medngame]

I was in a similar position where I had to choose between TCU & UNTHSC versus four other MD schools. When I showed up for applicant visit day I told myself “they have to show me something amazing to consider them” and they did just that. The curriculum, the research thesis (which I love because I enjoy research) and the miniature learning communities are all pluses to me. I think our class will be supported and our match results will be impressive. I also second what was mentioned above about creating a foundation for those coming behind us, that’s a powerful role to play. I am matriculating to TCU & UNTHSC so I’d be happy to discuss this more in pm. As for TCOM, take the advice of others with a grain of salt because not all TCOM students are receptive to this new school.

 

[Isoval]

I was in a similar position where I had to choose between TCU & UNTHSC versus four other MD schools. When I showed up for applicant visit day I told myself “they have to show me something amazing to consider them” and they did just that. The curriculum, the research thesis (which I love because I enjoy research) and the miniature learning communities are all pluses to me. I think our class will be supported and our match results will be impressive. I also second what was mentioned above about creating a foundation for those coming behind us, that’s a powerful role to play. I am matriculating to TCU & UNTHSC so I’d be happy to discuss this more in pm. As for TCOM, take the advice of others with a grain of salt because not all TCOM students are receptive to this new school.

That’s fair. Also we might key your car.

 

[yellow787]

Current first year at TCOM / rising second year:

I have mixed opinions on this for a few reasons, and lean to believing that you should choose TCOM over TCU-SOM. My ultimate reasoning for this is as follows:

- TCOM is overwhelmingly cheaper than TCU-SOM even if we include the year of free tuition. TCU students will almost be paying more in one year than I will pay for the entirety of my medical education. Do not underestimate the gravity of deep student loans and don't brush them off with the BS statement of "well, I'll be making $xxxxx". I see this done all too often on SDN. Interest is a b**** and it'll follow you around for decades.

- TCOM's match list is very solid as-is. We consistently match comparable to middle-tier MD programs, with fields like dermatology, urology, ENT, optho, and orthosurg being represented every single year. We matched 9 general surgeries and 15 OB/G this year - more than any year prior - despite the disappearing AOA residencies. To counter the above, we have very strong matches in Texas - this is true - but also have very strong matches out of the state. This year, we matched three Interventional Radiology programs, two of which are at prominent non-Texas institutions (UTSW, UMiami, Mayo FL). We've also had multiple matches at Cleveland Clinic and JHU for the past couple of years, just naming a few. Let me be clear: I'm not going to funnel BS down your throat that being a DO will not limit the number of programs to which you can apply. But there will still be more programs in every single specialty interested in your application than you could reasonably apply to. In other words, you will have no trouble matching your desired specialty if you are a strong candidate that picks their battles wisely.

- TCOM and TCU faculty are almost identical and students from both schools will have access to identical resources. I've seen some people here mention that TCU students will be matched with a PI from day one. Wonderful. But TCOM students can seek these labs or PIs out - which are on our campus, by the way - on their own with no obligation to do so. This part is important. If you want out of the lab, if you decide you're no longer interested in the project, etc., etc., you have the power to choose easily. This is not the case when research projects are a requirement of the institution. My class thinks it's hilarious that future TCU students are going to pay triple the price for what equates to essentially the same thing.

And for the record, TCOM has both the highest COMLEX and Step 1 averages of all DO schools, with our Step 1 average being solidly in the upper half of all Texas medical schools with over 80% of our classes sitting for the exam.

Most of the people who came here to drop a "MD is always better than DO" on prinicple seem to know very little about the two specific schools in question. This is what happens when you throw a blanket statement over everything. In my class in particular, I know multiple people who turned down other US-MD acceptances to come here. You would not be the first to do so, OP.

It is my sincerest hope, regardless of if I matriculate to TCOM or TCU/UNTHSC, that these two fantastic programs and their students can find some synergistic balance. There is no need for an “us vs. them” attitude here and frankly the way some of the TCOM students have posted about this new TCU school online makes me less inclined to attend TCOM (there are so many supportive TCOM students too who are probably in the majority). I really hope this bitterness is in the minority. And seriously you are incorrect to say “it’s essentially the same thing just 3x the cost.” That is simply untrue. It’s an entirely different approach to medical training. That’s kind of the whole point. Again, not better not worse. Just different. You have no idea what the culture of the research projects will be or what expectations there are. We are all training to be physicians in the team sport of medicine. Please do not perpetuate this “fear of other.”

 

[Isoval]

It is my sincerest hope, regardless of if I matriculate to TCOM or TCU/UNTHSC, that these two fantastic programs and their students can find some synergistic balance. There is no need for an “us vs. them” attitude here and frankly the way some of the TCOM students have posted about this new TCU school online makes me less inclined to attend TCOM (there are so many supportive TCOM students too who are probably in the majority). I really hope this bitterness is in the minority. And seriously you are incorrect to say “it’s essentially the same thing just 3x the cost.” That is simply untrue. It’s an entirely different approach to medical training. That’s kind of the whole point. Again, not better not worse. Just different. You have no idea what the culture of the research projects will be or what expectations there are. We are all training to be physicians in the team sport of medicine. Please do not perpetuate this “fear of other.”

When I made this claim, I made it with the context being that our faculty - and thus our class materials, constituting a large part of our education - are going to be largely the same. There is a very high amount of overlap between TCOM and TCU faculty. In that regard, this statement is absolutely true.

I recognize that TCU’s curriculum is going to be more of the “non-traditional” variety, and the fruits of that are yet to be seen. With that being said, I strongly believe it is erroneous for someone to think that a school is worth an extra 200,000$ because they do things a little differently. I should be clear that this is purely a financial issue in my eyes.

 

[yellow787]

When I made this claim, I made it with the context being that our faculty - and thus our class materials, constituting a large part of our education - are going to be largely the same. There is a very high amount of overlap between TCOM and TCU faculty. In that regard, this statement is absolutely true.

I recognize that TCU’s curriculum is going to be more of the “non-traditional” variety, and the fruits of that are yet to be seen. With that being said, I strongly believe it is erroneous for someone to think that a school is worth an extra 200,000$ because they do things a little differently. I should be clear that this is purely a financial issue in my eyes.

You give two people a piece of paper. One person writes a beautiful sonnet, the other folds an intricate origami structure. Same materials, different techniques, very different outcomes. There may be some overlap in resources but using that to make the assumption that things are essentially the same is a gross oversimplification.

The idea of class materials being “a large part of our education” highlights a crucial difference in the educational models of these two programs. TCOM utilizes a full two year two pass system. Yes there are streamed lectures that you can watch at home, collaborative learning modules, etc but it is not a true flipped classroom. TCU/UNTHSC only has 1ish full year of pre-clinics (all of which are fully flipped) before starting intensive clinical education. Additionally TCU students will take Step 1 in 3rd year rather than 2nd (similar to BCMs model).

I am speaking from the perspective of having interviewed and compared the minutia of these two programs in great detail. So I again want to reiterate- they truly are two very different, equally good, paths.

The matter of cost comes down to your relationship with money, your comfort with debt, and your expectations for your immediate future lifestyle. Cost is a truly valid reason to choose TCOM over TCU/UNTHSC, no doubt.

I think on all other points, you and I will have to agree to disagree, my friend.

 

[Incursio]

That’s fair. Also we might key your car.

I have some friends at TCOM and I have to say, although I might not full understand some of you guys fully, I am not completely oblivious of the situation either. Regardless, I think that if you guys have any bone to pick, it’s not with the new students. As some of the previous posters mentioned, it’s not a matter of “us” vs “them”, we are all working together to become the best versions of ourselves for whatever reason we decided to go into medicine.

All in all, hope the majority of TCOM is not representative of that kind of behavior cause it’s sad.

 

[Isoval]

I have some friends at TCOM and I have to say, although I might not full understand some of you guys fully, I am not completely oblivious of the situation either. Regardless, I think that if you guys have any bone to pick, it’s not with the new students. As some of the previous posters mentioned, it’s not a matter of “us” vs “them”, we are all working together to become the best versions of ourselves for whatever reason we decided to go into medicine.

All in all, hope the majority of TCOM is not representative of that kind of behavior cause it’s sad.

The quoted post was (hopefully obviously) in jest, but I cannot deny that there are many of us that have some level of animosity directed towards the new school.

Almost all of the perceived animosity has to deal with the administration and how the new school has been framed in the press and public eye. You are most certainly correct that the bone to pick is with the administration and I feel nothing towards the incoming class, and I think I speak for most or all of my class with that statement.

 

[DokterMom]

TCOM is very well respected in TX, so if you EITHER would like to stay in TX for residency OR would be happy in a primary care or less competitive specialty, then the cost differential probably tilts in TCOM's favor. If you want a competitive specialty outside of TX, then the MD would probably help.