Teach for America

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hey guys,

so I'm just seeking a little bit of application advice year.
Currently a junior looking to graduate in 2015.
I really have always wanted to do TFA and obviously want to go into medicine as well.
Looking to take the MCAT before it changes though, so I planned to take the MCAT summer of 2014.
However, if I do TFA after graduation, I'm afraid my MCAT score will have expired after, if I even get into TFA.
I'd love to hear some advice from people who have done TFA as to whether it's worth it; people in my life tell me I'm crazy and should just go to medical school, but teaching math and science in an atmosphere like that has always been something I've wanted to do.

thanks!

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hey guys,

so I'm just seeking a little bit of application advice year.
Currently a junior looking to graduate in 2015.
I really have always wanted to do TFA and obviously want to go into medicine as well.
Looking to take the MCAT before it changes though, so I planned to take the MCAT summer of 2014.
However, if I do TFA after graduation, I'm afraid my MCAT score will have expired after, if I even get into TFA.
I'd love to hear some advice from people who have done TFA as to whether it's worth it; people in my life tell me I'm crazy and should just go to medical school, but teaching math and science in an atmosphere like that has always been something I've wanted to do.

thanks!

Your passion for education is a very, very good thing. There are thousands of students that need people like you, and the above poster in all likelihood has no idea what they are talking about. This is not meant to offend the above poster, but these takedown articles of TFA are easy to write and rarely substantiated.

Joining TFA was the best decision of my life, and I would recommend the experience to almost anyone.

Your MCAT scores will not expire. PM me if you need any specifics on how TFA works, the application process as a corps member, etc.
 
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Your passion for education is a very, very good thing. There are thousands of students that need people like you, and the above poster in all likelihood has no idea what they are talking about. This is not meant to offend the above poster, but these takedown articles of TFA are easy to write and rarely substantiated.

Your MCAT scores will not expire. PM me if you need any specifics on how TFA works, the application process as a corps member, etc.

Did you read the article? There are a lot of at least seemingly substantial points raised - too many for me to be comfortable with the very very broad brush you use to sweep them aside.
 
Did you read the article? There are a lot of at least seemingly substantial points raised - too many for me to be comfortable with the very very broad brush you use to sweep them aside.

I will not get into an SDN fight, and this is not the right place to refute all the points raised in that article. I can say this and I do so because TFA really need the type of smart science students that frequent this site: If you think these novice teacher are unneeded as a result of this article you are sorely mistaken. If you think a "TFA novice" cannot make a huge difference you are completely wrong. Just because a teacher has worked for 10, 20, 30 years does not make them a tremendous teacher (Though there are many great experienced teachers). I have seen TFA teachers that are incredible, and certainly better than the long-term sub they would most likely be replaced by (And yes this is true. There are not simply all these experienced teacher chomping at the bit to work in low-income areas for little pay).

The author of the article is writing in one of the most hotly debated educational areas of the country under a system that prior to Teach for America absolutely did not work. Take it with a grain of salt, and again PM if you would like to discuss this further.

P.S. there is nothing wrong with wanting to help people. Go for TFA if you want it.

This is my personal opinion and in no way represents the perspectives or viewpoints of Teach for America
 
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I will not get into an SDN fight, and this is not the right place to refute all the points raised in that article. I can say this and I do so because TFA really need the type of smart science students that frequent this site: If you think these novice teacher are unneeded as a result of this article you are sorely mistaken. If you think a "TFA novice" cannot make a huge difference you are completely wrong. Just because a teacher has worked for 10, 20, 30 years does not make them a tremendous teacher (Though there are many great experienced teachers). I have seen TFA teachers that are incredible, and certainly better than the long-term sub they would most likely be replaced by (And yes this is true. There are not simply all these experienced teacher chomping at the bit to work in low-income areas for little pay).

The author of the article is writing in one of the most hotly debated educational areas of the country under a system that prior to Teach for America absolutely did not work. Take it with a grain of salt, and again PM if you would like to discuss this further.

P.S. there is nothing wrong with wanting to help people. Go for TFA if you want it.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to help people, unless you end up hurting them. Agreed that this isn't the right place to really hash it out though.
 
SDN fights are dumb, but I'd like to point out one fatal flaw the article takes as an assumption. Coming from NYC, which has an education system plagued with very similar problems as that of Chicago, I know firsthand that this following assumption is definitely not true:

Experienced teachers = necessarily good; inexperienced college graduates = necessarily bad.
 
hey guys,

so I'm just seeking a little bit of application advice year.
Currently a junior looking to graduate in 2015.
I really have always wanted to do TFA and obviously want to go into medicine as well.
Looking to take the MCAT before it changes though, so I planned to take the MCAT summer of 2014.
However, if I do TFA after graduation, I'm afraid my MCAT score will have expired after, if I even get into TFA.
I'd love to hear some advice from people who have done TFA as to whether it's worth it; people in my life tell me I'm crazy and should just go to medical school, but teaching math and science in an atmosphere like that has always been something I've wanted to do.

thanks!

I had a similar question when I applied to the peace corps. Scores don't officially expire. However, some schools will not accept scores that are so old. Some schools will not take scores that are three, four, five or more years old. You need to check on the site of each school. (make sure you are checking the where it is so many years from the time of application or matriculation).

I am currently applying to med school and my peace corps service will end in two weeks. I took my MCAT in August 2011, two weeks before I left for my service. I have had absolutely no problems with schools not accepting my old scores.

I am very glad I took a few years off before joining med school. TFA is a great program, and I think you will be glad that you had some other experiences rather than jumping straight into med school. Good luck applying to TFA!!
 
I had a similar question when I applied to the peace corps. Scores don't officially expire. However, some schools will not accept scores that are so old. Some schools will not take scores that are three, four, five or more years old. You need to check on the site of each school. (make sure you are checking the where it is so many years from the time of application or matriculation).

I am currently applying to med school and my peace corps service will end in two weeks. I took my MCAT in August 2011, two weeks before I left for my service. I have had absolutely no problems with schools not accepting my old scores.

I am very glad I took a few years off before joining med school. TFA is a great program, and I think you will be glad that you had some other experiences rather than jumping straight into med school. Good luck applying to TFA!!

My dilemma is the fact that I don't want to take the 2015 MCAT, which I would have to take if my score expired or if I waited till the summer after I graduated.
 

This is an excellent read! Here's the line that really struck me:

You have a choice to make. TFA may ultimately benefit you personally, it may open doors to lucrative careers, help you get into prestigious law and graduate degrees, even give you direct paths into high-paid jobs in the worlds of education, business, or politics. It may even make you feel really good. But are you willing to participate in the destruction of the common good of public education, destroy the teaching profession, and deny needy children experienced long-term educators who would gladly take jobs filled by these TFA novices? Are you willing to do great harm to children and communities for your own personal gain?

This pretty sums up your typical pre-med. Very few people are genuinely altruistic where they have selfless ambitions throughout the application process. A majority, I'm afraid, will do whatever they can to check off the sexiest box for ADCOMs. As it stands, things like TFA, Americorps, and starting a non-profit (even though established non-profits will do far more good than you ever will) will give you a possible leg up in the admissions process. It doesn't matter if there are negative consequences for others, as long as that you're helping yourself.

But hey, more power to you! It would be a bad idea for anyone not to use everything they can to get an advantage in the admissions process.
 
My dilemma is the fact that I don't want to take the 2015 MCAT, which I would have to take if my score expired or if I waited till the summer after I graduated.

I think you should worry about getting in to TFA first. You don't just fill out an online form and get accepted.

In any case, if you take it next year in 2014, then the latest most medical schools would allow you to matriculate while still accepting that score is 2017. Thus, you would have to apply the summer of 2016 to make it on time.

So if you're c/o 2015 and do TFA, you make it exactly on time. But you'll miss lots of workdays during the fall of 2016 when you're going around interviewing. Oh, so much for helping those poor little kiddies without competent teachers!!! :naughty:
 
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I never really agree with the idea of not wanting to discuss a topic just because it's on the internet and therefore not the "right" place to hash things out. In my opinion, talking about it-- even through such a limited means as this-- is better than not talking about it at all. Especially when it's a topic where people can benefit from hearing multiple sides of the story and see perspectives they were previously unaware of. I think people avoid talking about stuff like this online because it so frequently devolves into cyberfights exacerbated by the whole I'm-anonymous-so-I-can-say-whatever-I-want thing. But as long as people work to keep the discussion exactly that-- a level, reasonable discussion-- then why not?

OP, I considered TFA very seriously and for a very long time, meeting with recruiters and whatnot, before ultimately deciding not to do it. I think the ideology of the program is outstanding and that what it aims to do is worthwhile, meaningful, and important. I think it draws a lot of pre-meds because the idea of helping people is obviously one that appeals to us. And the whole partnerships-with-med-schools thing, loan deferrals, the prestige of the program-- all enticing.

At the same time, there have been legitimate concerns raised about it that I think are pretty fair. In a nutshell, the problem is that idealistic twenty-somethings who have just graduated from college are eager to do some good in this world and to make a difference. They (we) go into Teach for America hoping to also gain some insight in the Real World-- I mean, how could we not! we might be teaching underprivileged children, but really they're the ones teaching us!-- and have these experiences shape us into more compassionate and understanding people. And there's nothing wrong with that. The best types of people/future doctors should seek out those experiences that will make us more compassionate and understanding people. And the people who do the program are people who really, really do care about others and deep down inside they know that it will be a struggle and it will be hard and it will be an immense challenge, but that doesn't matter. In the end it'll be worth it-- because what could be worth more than giving a child an education? (Very few things, let me tell you.)

The issue that's been raised is that you take these Well-Intentioned People and give them an intensive but brief training and then let them teach students. Pre-meds that we are, we think that we'd be well-equipped to handle it; that we're capable individuals; that we believe in ourselves and know we can do it. But one point the article raised that I thought was worth repeating was this: "do not allow TFA to let you learn how to teach on the backs of our neediest children, children living in poverty, children with disabilities, children who are still learning English, children living under oppression, racism, and savage inequalities."

I think the hardest thing for me to realize was that despite all my good intentions, my beliefs that I could and would show these kids how much someone cared about them, the lengths that I was willing to go to invest in their futures-- at the end of the day I knew that I'm still pre-med. I'm not going to go into education; if I was, it'd be a different story. The idea of having a two-year stint in teaching felt fraudulent to me, in a way, because of that. How much can you improve as a teacher in two years? A lot, maybe, but ultimately it doesn't matter for the kids you're teaching because at the end of that time, a new teacher starts afresh. Instead of benefiting from their teachers' continued practice teaching, students often suffer because the cycle repeats over and over again. Yeah, you can justify it by saying that two years is still enough time to make a difference, that that's even more incentive to make that brief time count, but at the end of the day I didn't want to play teacher if I wasn't in it for the long run (even five years would be better than two). I'd get a lot out of the experience, I'm sure, but it felt.. bad, I suppose, to have it be about my gains.

Last point: in very rural areas where students may not have access to educators and where even a recent college grad can provide a solid foundation of learning, Teach for America is commendable. In these areas, yes, the argument that bright and motivated individuals can influence the lives of these children for the better is probably very true. But how many recent college grads want to be in those far-removed locations? The article cited above is way over-dramatic but there's still truth in what it says.

I went to a university that sends a lot of students to TFA every year, and I know around 15 who are doing it now. All of them are fantastic people. But not all of them would do TFA again, if you asked them. If you're interested in the program and you're determined to see that through, then go for it-- but consider all perspectives going in, not just the beautiful stories painted by recruiters or by the website. (I made that mistake in the beginning.) I respect rfenzo for doing TFA, but just keep in mind that his/her experience doesn't speak for all Corps members. In the end, it's two years of your life, and you want to make sure you're well-educated about how they're going to be spent before you make a commitment.
 
This is an excellent read! Here's the line that really struck me:



This pretty sums up your typical pre-med. Very few people are genuinely altruistic where they have selfless ambitions throughout the application process. A majority, I'm afraid, will do whatever they can to check off the sexiest box for ADCOMs. As it stands, things like TFA, Americorps, and starting a non-profit (even though established non-profits will do far more good than you ever will) will give you a possible leg up in the admissions process. It doesn't matter if there are negative consequences for others, as long as that you're helping yourself.

But hey, more power to you! It would be a bad idea for anyone not to use everything they can to get an advantage in the admissions process.

I think you overlooked inycepoo's comment, which was very good. Overall, though, I want to make two points. Again, I'm hoping here that some of you SDNers may become more informed this way:

1) There is not some swath of experienced teachers that want to fill these teaching positions. There just is not. I encourage anyone to take the Red Line in Chicago to the south side and walk to any number of schools in that area. It is not a place many working professionals would say that feel comfortable traveling to every day.

2) This is very important. DO NOT. I repeat DO NOT join TFA because you "want to get a leg up." If you do not join for any other reason than a strong desire to help others you will quit. It is too hard. I left the house at 6am every day and didn't get home until after 9pm most days. You need to really, really want this.

Again, let me know if you have any questions.
 
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I think the hardest thing for me to realize was that despite all my good intentions, my beliefs that I could and would show these kids how much someone cared about them, the lengths that I was willing to go to invest in their futures-- at the end of the day I knew that I'm still pre-med. I'm not going to go into education; if I was, it'd be a different story. The idea of having a two-year stint in teaching felt fraudulent to me, in a way, because of that. How much can you improve as a teacher in two years? A lot, maybe, but ultimately it doesn't matter for the kids you're teaching because at the end of that time, a new teacher starts afresh. Instead of benefiting from their teachers' continued practice teaching, students often suffer because the cycle repeats over and over again. Yeah, you can justify it by saying that two years is still enough time to make a difference, that that's even more incentive to make that brief time count, but at the end of the day I didn't want to play teacher if I wasn't in it for the long run (even five years would be better than two). I'd get a lot out of the experience, I'm sure, but it felt.. bad, I suppose, to have it be about my gains.

I agree with this very strongly. I have good friends and family who did, or are doing, TFA and I considered it quite closely myself. After reading substantial criticism of the program I do still believe that it can do good, although it needs to be adjusted in some places and has probably grown too quickly in many. Ultimately, if you KNOW there is no possibility that you are going to stay with teaching beyond the two years, I don't think it's appropriate to do TFA.
 
I never really agree with the idea of not wanting to discuss a topic just because it's on the internet and therefore not the "right" place to hash things out. In my opinion, talking about it-- even through such a limited means as this-- is better than not talking about it at all. Especially when it's a topic where people can benefit from hearing multiple sides of the story and see perspectives they were previously unaware of. I think people avoid talking about stuff like this online because it so frequently devolves into cyberfights exacerbated by the whole I'm-anonymous-so-I-can-say-whatever-I-want thing. But as long as people work to keep the discussion exactly that-- a level, reasonable discussion-- then why not?

Have fun believing in that! Those of us who are battle-wearied and shell shocked and would rather eat Doritos and watch Toy Story 3 for the tenth time than get into another one of these pointless arguments about our biased opinions and beliefs (that neither side has any chance of changing for the other) applaud you for your efforts. :corny:

Speaking of which, want me to pick up some Cool Ranch for you? Just in case you decide to join us later as well. Or maybe Spicy Sweet Chili is your type....
 
I never really agree with the idea of not wanting to discuss a topic just because it's on the internet and therefore not the "right" place to hash things out. In my opinion, talking about it-- even through such a limited means as this-- is better than not talking about it at all. Especially when it's a topic where people can benefit from hearing multiple sides of the story and see perspectives they were previously unaware of. I think people avoid talking about stuff like this online because it so frequently devolves into cyberfights exacerbated by the whole I'm-anonymous-so-I-can-say-whatever-I-want thing. But as long as people work to keep the discussion exactly that-- a level, reasonable discussion-- then why not?

OP, I considered TFA very seriously and for a very long time, meeting with recruiters and whatnot, before ultimately deciding not to do it. I think the ideology of the program is outstanding and that what it aims to do is worthwhile, meaningful, and important. I think it draws a lot of pre-meds because the idea of helping people is obviously one that appeals to us. And the whole partnerships-with-med-schools thing, loan deferrals, the prestige of the program-- all enticing.

At the same time, there have been legitimate concerns raised about it that I think are pretty fair. In a nutshell, the problem is that idealistic twenty-somethings who have just graduated from college are eager to do some good in this world and to make a difference. They (we) go into Teach for America hoping to also gain some insight in the Real World-- I mean, how could we not! we might be teaching underprivileged children, but really they're the ones teaching us!-- and have these experiences shape us into more compassionate and understanding people. And there's nothing wrong with that. The best types of people/future doctors should seek out those experiences that will make us more compassionate and understanding people. And the people who do the program are people who really, really do care about others and deep down inside they know that it will be a struggle and it will be hard and it will be an immense challenge, but that doesn't matter. In the end it'll be worth it-- because what could be worth more than giving a child an education? (Very few things, let me tell you.)

The issue that's been raised is that you take these Well-Intentioned People and give them an intensive but brief training and then let them teach students. Pre-meds that we are, we think that we'd be well-equipped to handle it; that we're capable individuals; that we believe in ourselves and know we can do it. But one point the article raised that I thought was worth repeating was this: "do not allow TFA to let you learn how to teach on the backs of our neediest children, children living in poverty, children with disabilities, children who are still learning English, children living under oppression, racism, and savage inequalities."

I think the hardest thing for me to realize was that despite all my good intentions, my beliefs that I could and would show these kids how much someone cared about them, the lengths that I was willing to go to invest in their futures-- at the end of the day I knew that I'm still pre-med. I'm not going to go into education; if I was, it'd be a different story. The idea of having a two-year stint in teaching felt fraudulent to me, in a way, because of that. How much can you improve as a teacher in two years? A lot, maybe, but ultimately it doesn't matter for the kids you're teaching because at the end of that time, a new teacher starts afresh. Instead of benefiting from their teachers' continued practice teaching, students often suffer because the cycle repeats over and over again. Yeah, you can justify it by saying that two years is still enough time to make a difference, that that's even more incentive to make that brief time count, but at the end of the day I didn't want to play teacher if I wasn't in it for the long run (even five years would be better than two). I'd get a lot out of the experience, I'm sure, but it felt.. bad, I suppose, to have it be about my gains.

Last point: in very rural areas where students may not have access to educators and where even a recent college grad can provide a solid foundation of learning, Teach for America is commendable. In these areas, yes, the argument that bright and motivated individuals can influence the lives of these children for the better is probably very true. But how many recent college grads want to be in those far-removed locations? The article cited above is way over-dramatic but there's still truth in what it says.

I went to a university that sends a lot of students to TFA every year, and I know around 15 who are doing it now. All of them are fantastic people. But not all of them would do TFA again, if you asked them. If you're interested in the program and you're determined to see that through, then go for it-- but consider all perspectives going in, not just the beautiful stories painted by recruiters or by the website. (I made that mistake in the beginning.) I respect rfenzo for doing TFA, but just keep in mind that his/her experience doesn't speak for all Corps members. In the end, it's two years of your life, and you want to make sure you're well-educated about how they're going to be spent before you make a commitment.

Sorry to double post, but this is a great point as well. Thank you for adding to the conversation.
 
I think you should worry about getting in to TFA first. You don't just fill out an online form and get accepted.

In any case, if you take it next year in 2014, then the latest most medical schools would allow you to matriculate while still accepting that score is 2017. Thus, you would have to apply the summer of 2016 to make it on time.

So if you're c/o 2015 and do TFA, you make it exactly on time. But you'll miss lots of workdays during the fall of 2016 when you're going around interviewing. Oh, so much for helping those poor little kiddies without competent teachers!!! :naughty:

The reason I posted this topic was because I don't want to apply during my second year of TFA, that's not even an option for me.

This is not something I want to do for the resume padding. As much as I'm sure people are all about setting themselves apart as premed, I truly believe that doing what you love will allow you to end up where you want to be. I don't want to do TFA for the resume at all. I grew up living in a terrible school system that I was lucky to not have to attend, but ended up in a school system where we had resources but no motivated teachers and it made me want to always pursue teaching, at least for a little while. I love medicine and teaching equally, honestly. I can't see myself being a teacher full time but I can for a little while.

I am well versed in the criticisms of TFA, I go to a large TFA feeder school as well. I'd be lucky to get into TFA, and am by no means counting on it. I just don't know how it fits into the scope of my goals which is why I posted for opinions. I want to avoid taking the 2015 MCAT as much as possible because I don't feel that this late in the college game my coursework would have me prepared for it as much as people groomed to take the 2015 MCAT. I also probably won't do TFA if it just seems to not make practical sense for me. There will be many opportunities later in life to teach, I just have heard amazing things from peers who have done the program and read the article posted above a year ago. I know what I'm getting myself into and I want to get myself into it.
 
Is TFA the new "volunteer in the third world" for med school applications?
 
1) There is not some swath of experienced teachers that want to fill these teaching positions. There just is not. I encourage anyone to take the Red Line in Chicago to the south side and walk to any number of schools in that area. It is not a place many working professionals would say that feel comfortable traveling to every day.

I'm from Chicago, and trust me, I have not and will never take the Red Line south of downtown. :naughty: But as you say, if these schools are so undesirable, then why do these young people in their 20s suddenly want to teach there? Is it just like all the pre-meds who desperately want to help the serve the underserved, work in rural areas, and practice primary care?

2) This is very important. DO NOT. I repeat DO NOT join TFA because you "want to get a leg up." If you do not join for any other reason than a strong desire to help others you will quit. It is too hard. I left the house at 6am every day and didn't get home until after 9pm most days. You need to really, really want this.

I have heard that TFA is definitely difficult and quite a commitment. I know of numerous people who ended up pursuing it. They mostly came from reputable first tier colleges like University of Illinois Urbana Champaign, Indiana University at Bloomington, etc... So where are they now? Quite a few that I'm still friends with on Facebook are now teaching at well-to-do school districts, like those on the North Shore in Chicago. These districts, especially like those on the North Shore, are difficult to get in to. Remember, the things that take the most hard work and effort are worth it. So if that means enduring TFA for a couple years, then people will do it.

I'm not looking to start a war here or piss people off. If you look at my past posts, you'll see that I like to argue the other side of things, usually respectively and politely. I think that's what makes SDN a fun place to be, and I think this thread is full of excellent viewpoints so far. :thumbup:
 
Until it gets overdone of course. In the meantime, pre-meds can still bank on it.

Complete supposition/assumption, but I don't think premeds have been or will ever be accepted into TFA in hoards and packs. It's pretty obvious that the typical premed will have spent 0 time really interested in education. Being that TFA would still want to keep its 64% of alumni still working FT in education (source for those future diehard librarians/anal Internet creepers/challengers: http://www.teachforamerica.org/sites/default/files/Annual.Report.FINAL_.pdf), premeds probably won't be going into TFA in packs that'll make it "overdone" any time soon.
 
Whenever I see TFA come up, I always point the pre-med, potential corps member towards City Year instead.

Advantages:
  • 1 year of service vs. 2 (applicable in your case)
  • Like TFA, making a real difference for underresourced communties through education
  • Unlike TFA, you aren't the primary teacher - so no one is being displaced

Disadvantages:
  • You aren't the lead teacher. This isn't a big deal for me (I don't have a good background in pedagogy and would rather work with someone else)

I'm in the middle of my City Year now, and it is difficult: long hours, and dealing with the aggregate educational and psycho-social deficits that these students accrue is a real challenge, but it's rewarding work and a far more meaningful activity for my gap year than mindless work or more research.
 
Have fun believing in that! Those of us who are battle-wearied and shell shocked and would rather eat Doritos and watch Toy Story 3 for the tenth time than get into another one of these pointless arguments about our biased opinions and beliefs (that neither side has any chance of changing for the other) applaud you for your efforts. :corny:

This is a perfect example of what I want to clarify. Discussions: :thumbup:. Arguments: :thumbdown:. Discussions aren't always arguments; they're certainly not pointless, and it's not so much about changing others' "biased opinions and beliefs" as it is about offering perspectives that can inform those beliefs, or bringing up points to be taken under consideration (and it works both ways, of course).

I just don't know how it fits into the scope of my goals which is why I posted for opinions ... I also probably won't do TFA if it just seems to not make practical sense for me. There will be many opportunities later in life to teach, I just have heard amazing things from peers who have done the program and read the article posted above a year ago. I know what I'm getting myself into and I want to get myself into it.

In addition to seeing if other SDN-ers have done TFA, you could also talk to your campus recruiter and see if he/she know of people who were in the same pre-med boat. I did and mine put me in touch with a med student who had done the program and was open to talking about his experiences. I don't doubt your interest in the program/passion for education, but I'm wondering if your peers who did TFA were also pre-med? At the risk of sounding preachy, I just think we've got a responsibility to the students we'd be teaching to mull over the problem of knowing we're ultimately going into medicine, and still doing TFA for only two years.
 
This is a perfect example of what I want to clarify. Discussions: :thumbup:. Arguments: :thumbdown:. Discussions aren't always arguments; they're certainly not pointless, and it's not so much about changing others' "biased opinions and beliefs" as it is about offering perspectives that can inform those beliefs, or bringing up points to be taken under consideration (and it works both ways, of course).

Like I said, we (I) the battle fatigued salute you and your judgment.
 
Looking at the link in post #2 and the sidebar ads on that site, I get the impression that the point of view is "pro-union" and the major objection underpinning the arguments against TFA is that it displaces and replaces unionized teachers. Frankly, given the pension mess we are in, we'd do well to replace almost all the career teachers with short-term, idealistic, brilliant new grads who will gladly give a few years of their lives, like Peace Corps volunteers, to better communities that most sensible people stay away from, and then go into some other line of work.

As with patients who don't cooperate or take your advice, there are students who will not follow through with assignments, those who will not pay attention in class and those who will be violent, or verbally abusive. Not every principal will be welcoming and a good mentor. There are long days, ungratefulness, and feelings that one is spinning one's wheels. If you can live with that, they TFA might be a good chance to test your inclination to teach science at the HS level.
 
Looking at the link in post #2 and the sidebar ads on that site, I get the impression that the point of view is "pro-union" and the major objection underpinning the arguments against TFA is that it displaces and replaces unionized teachers. Frankly, given the pension mess we are in, we'd do well to replace almost all the career teachers with short-term, idealistic, brilliant new grads who will gladly give a few years of their lives, like Peace Corps volunteers, to better communities that most sensible people stay away from, and then go into some other line of work.

As with patients who don't cooperate or take your advice, there are students who will not follow through with assignments, those who will not pay attention in class and those who will be violent, or verbally abusive. Not every principal will be welcoming and a good mentor. There are long days, ungratefulness, and feelings that one is spinning one's wheels. If you can live with that, they TFA might be a good chance to test your inclination to teach science at the HS level.

By this logic we should replace all those senior doctors with fat salaries with premedical students after a few weeks training. All for the good of the system, right? Cost control is all that matters!

Yes, there are problems with the current teachers unions in many places. That doesn't mean that TFAs expansion has been prudent or well-done. It has expanded beyond usefulness in many locations.
 
Did you read the article? There are a lot of at least seemingly substantial points raised - too many for me to be comfortable with the very very broad brush you use to sweep them aside.

I stopped reading that article after the author suggested abandoning standardized testing. If anything it should be improved to have questions randomly generated in different formats so that you can't study for the test and must understand the material (kind of like MCAT). Because of people like the author of that article US spending more money per student than any other country, yet, in science and math is lagging far behind.
 
By this logic we should replace all those senior doctors with fat salaries with premedical students after a few weeks training. All for the good of the system, right? Cost control is all that matters!

Yes, there are problems with the current teachers unions in many places. That doesn't mean that TFAs expansion has been prudent or well-done. It has expanded beyond usefulness in many locations.

That's an apples and oranges comparison, as you are probably well aware. There are truly great teachers out there who have been teaching for years, but there are just as many people who show up mostly for the paycheck and DGAF about their students because they have such ridiculous job security. The idea that there are legions of hardworking, experienced teachers eager to teach in under-resourced areas only to be denied because of TFA corps members is not based in reality.
 
I am a former TFA corps member, OP. I taught upper level high school math. At that time I was not premed or anything-pre. I just hated the American educational system and and felt that I had some good ideas about what to do especially concerning the quality of education in low income minority areas. I wasn't brought up in the U.S. so I got a chance to see two contrasting educational systems.
I wanted to address Planes2Doc point here. Joining for TFA for prestige and because you wanted to help people is not an either or proposition. It could be a combination of both and many other factors, kind of like med school, amirite? Being motivated by non-altruistic reasons doesn't automatically make a bad teacher. I will give you an example. One of the TFA teachers form my district was insanely good. He was practically a genius with kids. He actually had many experienced teachers from all over come in to learn his secrets in his first year of teaching. He designed and implemented a whole new course. His scores were of the charts. The funny part is that he was originally working for an investment firm and went to b-school after he was done. Honestly, I am pretty sure they will be using his methods for a while and sincerely hope he comes back to education in a more senior role. I know he is only one guy but the point here is to get people like this familiar with educational issues in this country first hand so that in the future when those people become successful they will not forget about the kids.
Let me just give you a couple of things to counter the article you have read.
1. In the school I taught we had a shortage of teachers able and willing to teach math and science courses. In my department more than half of all of the teachers wouldn't be able to teach the content I was teaching and the ones that would were mostly TFA. I came in to work sick on quite a few occasions. We could probably dedicate the whole book to this issue so I am not going to get into to many details but I will tell you that most teaching programs I am familiar with (I have a master's in secondary education) do not emphasize passion for and knowledge of the subject matter the new teachers will be teaching. Many American teachers are very good at classroom management, playing games, making songs, watching movies, doing collaborative "learning" activities, but when it comes to having students buckling down and learning the nuts and bolts of scientific method, it gets much more tricky. In my district (as I recall it) we had elementary school teachers take an 8th grade math test and most of them failed. Think about how well those teachers can teach math themselves. Tragically, most people who are really good at these subjects end up doing other things with their life. Also the kids get used to playing games so when you come in focused on content rather than "soft" things; you will have hard time and will have to really improvise to get kids to do hardcore work.
2. The administrations and fellow teachers are often resistant to change even if everyone acknowledged the need for it and agrees to it in principle. My assistant principal thought that the kids on the softball team can miss their math class as long as their performance was adequate and they were willing to catch up. Just shows you where the priorities are. In my department almost nobody was willing to stay with the same group of kids for longer than one year, since that would entail making new lesson plans and tolerating kids who weren't behaving well in your classroom. And of course some of the teachers didn't know the subject well enough to teach anything above algebra I.
3. The displacement of veteran teachers argument is not presented in a fair way. In our school no math or science teacher was ever let go to fit in TFA corps members. But, yes indeed, cooking/photography/drama/etc… teachers had something to worry about. I am not saying those subjects are worthless but when you teach math for 5 hours a day not counting the prep, tutoring, administrative duties, etc. and make only a half (sometime a third) of what someone who teaches kids how to take a picture makes due to seniority and more training regardless of the effect on kids and actual performance, you don't feel so bad when that person gets laid off and that money is used to hire a couple more math and science teachers that the district desperately needs.

This all is my opinion, obviously, which is based on my personal experience. I am not in any way representing the official view of TFA or people associated with that organization.
 
Looking at the link in post #2 and the sidebar ads on that site, I get the impression that the point of view is "pro-union" and the major objection underpinning the arguments against TFA is that it displaces and replaces unionized teachers. Frankly, given the pension mess we are in, we'd do well to replace almost all the career teachers with short-term, idealistic, brilliant new grads who will gladly give a few years of their lives, like Peace Corps volunteers, to better communities that most sensible people stay away from, and then go into some other line of work.

As with patients who don't cooperate or take your advice, there are students who will not follow through with assignments, those who will not pay attention in class and those who will be violent, or verbally abusive. Not every principal will be welcoming and a good mentor. There are long days, ungratefulness, and feelings that one is spinning one's wheels. If you can live with that, they TFA might be a good chance to test your inclination to teach science at the HS level.

That new signature. omg. Did you recently see that written on an application?!?!?!?! :eek::eek::eek:
 

I stop reading the article after this paragraph....

Many of you no doubt believe you are joining a progressive education justice movement, that is the message TFA sells so well. But I want you to understand clearly, TFA is not progressive. The kind of limited data-driven pedagogy, the fast-track preparation, the union-busting, the forced exploitation of your labor, the deep-pocketed affiliation with corporate education Walmartreform are all very conservative, very anti-progressive ideas. Look no further than TFA’s list of supporters/donors. The largest donations are from groups like the Walton Foundation, of Walmart fortune, which has a vested interest in the status quo of inequality, breaking unions, and keeping wages low and workers oppressed. Or notice the many partnerships with JP Morgan Chase, Goldman Sachs, and Bank of America, the very institutions which caused the financial collapse and threw millions of Americans-including your future students’ families-into foreclosure, bankruptcy, and deeper poverty. These organizations choose to donate to TFA because TFA supports their agendas. If TFA was truly pushing back on the status quo of educational inequality, these types of donors would not only refuse financial support, they would be attacking a group which threatens their earning potential.
 
My dilemma is the fact that I don't want to take the 2015 MCAT, which I would have to take if my score expired or if I waited till the summer after I graduated.

That is why you have to look at the schools you want to apply to. For the schools that I am applying to, the vast majority take scores only from the last three years For example, University of Rochester and UCLA take the MCAT only from within the last 3 years. Duke, takes it from within the last 4 years.

If you take the MCAT in 2014, do TFA 2015-17, and apply during 2017, you could apply to the three year MCAT schools. If you apply in 2018 you could only apply to the 4+ MCAT schools.
 
If you take the MCAT in 2014, do TFA 2015-17, and apply during 2017, you could apply to the three year MCAT schools. If you apply in 2018 you could only apply to the 4+ MCAT schools.

Applying during 2017 would be too late. The 3 years are typically years to matriculation, not application. This means OP would have to apply in 2016 during his/her second year of TFA for the 2014 score to be valid, like I said before.
 
Applying during 2017 would be too late. The 3 years are typically years to matriculation, not application. This means OP would have to apply in 2016 during his/her second year of TFA for the 2014 score to be valid, like I said before.

+1 That score would be too old.

I have a friend who is TFA year 2 right now. She absolutely loves it! In fact, she was going to do TFA for 2 years and then go to law school, but at this point she is staying on to teach for longer because of the gratification she gets from her job. Watch out OP, that could be you too :D

In all seriousness, she had zero time to do anything other than work, eat, and prepare for class during her first year. It is easier during the second year, but you certainly can't be going off for interviews while kids are counting on you to be there and teach them - especially if you are teaching elementary and the kids need consistency :oops:

Are you prepared to attend medical school 3 years after graduation?
 
I am a former TFA corps member, OP. I taught upper level high school math. At that time I was not premed or anything-pre. I just hated the American educational system and and felt that I had some good ideas about what to do especially concerning the quality of education in low income minority areas. I wasn’t brought up in the U.S. so I got a chance to see two contrasting educational systems.
I wanted to address Planes2Doc point here. Joining for TFA for prestige and because you wanted to help people is not an either or proposition. It could be a combination of both and many other factors, kind of like med school, amirite? Being motivated by non-altruistic reasons doesn’t automatically make a bad teacher. I will give you an example. One of the TFA teachers form my district was insanely good. He was practically a genius with kids. He actually had many experienced teachers from all over come in to learn his secrets in his first year of teaching. He designed and implemented a whole new course. His scores were of the charts. The funny part is that he was originally working for an investment firm and went to b-school after he was done. Honestly, I am pretty sure they will be using his methods for a while and sincerely hope he comes back to education in a more senior role. I know he is only one guy but the point here is to get people like this familiar with educational issues in this country first hand so that in the future when those people become successful they will not forget about the kids.
Let me just give you a couple of things to counter the article you have read.
1. In the school I taught we had a shortage of teachers able and willing to teach math and science courses. In my department more than half of all of the teachers wouldn’t be able to teach the content I was teaching and the ones that would were mostly TFA. I came in to work sick on quite a few occasions. We could probably dedicate the whole book to this issue so I am not going to get into to many details but I will tell you that most teaching programs I am familiar with (I have a master’s in secondary education) do not emphasize passion for and knowledge of the subject matter the new teachers will be teaching. Many American teachers are very good at classroom management, playing games, making songs, watching movies, doing collaborative “learning” activities, but when it comes to having students buckling down and learning the nuts and bolts of scientific method, it gets much more tricky. In my district (as I recall it) we had elementary school teachers take an 8th grade math test and most of them failed. Think about how well those teachers can teach math themselves. Tragically, most people who are really good at these subjects end up doing other things with their life. Also the kids get used to playing games so when you come in focused on content rather than “soft” things; you will have hard time and will have to really improvise to get kids to do hardcore work.
2. The administrations and fellow teachers are often resistant to change even if everyone acknowledged the need for it and agrees to it in principle. My assistant principal thought that the kids on the softball team can miss their math class as long as their performance was adequate and they were willing to catch up. Just shows you where the priorities are. In my department almost nobody was willing to stay with the same group of kids for longer than one year, since that would entail making new lesson plans and tolerating kids who weren’t behaving well in your classroom. And of course some of the teachers didn’t know the subject well enough to teach anything above algebra I.
3. The displacement of veteran teachers argument is not presented in a fair way. In our school no math or science teacher was ever let go to fit in TFA corps members. But, yes indeed, cooking/photography/drama/etc… teachers had something to worry about. I am not saying those subjects are worthless but when you teach math for 5 hours a day not counting the prep, tutoring, administrative duties, etc. and make only a half (sometime a third) of what someone who teaches kids how to take a picture makes due to seniority and more training regardless of the effect on kids and actual performance, you don’t feel so bad when that person gets laid off and that money is used to hire a couple more math and science teachers that the district desperately needs.

This all is my opinion, obviously, which is based on my personal experience. I am not in any way representing the official view of TFA or people associated with that organization.

I love, love, LOVE this post because this is more of the experiences I've heard with TFA and education in general, and why I want to do TFA.

I think at this point I am leaning towards taking a gap year to apply to med school/TFA and defer if accepted to med school AND TFA. And I talked to my campus recruiter who hooked me up with someone pre-med and currently doing TFA.

Really appreciated all of your insights!
 
A recently accepted 2014 RI corps member here.

I actually had the opportunity to work with TFA during my undergraduate years (in the recruitment department) and have decided to accept my offer before pursuing medical school. I have taken the MCAT and currently am in the application cycle.

I have been in contact with plenty of alumni that have completed their two-three years as a corps member and continued on to medical school. I understand timing seems like a huge issue right now.. but it is important to note that in the longer scheme of things, its not going to matter. The new MCAT maybe be scary and you probably don't want to even think about having to take it.. But if TFA is truly something you want to do, a test shouldn't deter you away.

I was also afraid of the same situation and reached out to a few admissions people in schools I was interested in. And their answer was that simply, the new test isn't going to change how they view their applicants immediately. There is going to be a transition period and just because you took the old MCAT it's not going to be invalid. And with the school looking at the applicant as a whole, they are not going to punish you for timing purposes when you have gone to dedicate your time to such a great cause.

So don't worry too much and reach out to different programs, everyone wants to help! And if you have questions about TFA, or need help getting connected with someone in your region, feel free to pm me!
 
I was also afraid of the same situation and reached out to a few admissions people in schools I was interested in. And their answer was that simply, the new test isn't going to change how they view their applicants immediately. There is going to be a transition period and just because you took the old MCAT it's not going to be invalid. And with the school looking at the applicant as a whole, they are not going to punish you for timing purposes when you have gone to dedicate your time to such a great cause.

Distortion. (lolol feels like a VR answer explanation...)

The concern here is not that the old MCAT will be invalid/expire because it's the old MCAT, but that there exists still a 3-year timeframe from when you take the MCAT to when you must matriculate to med school that most schools will still have. Whether or not you take the old or new MCAT, this rule will most likely still apply. That is, of course, you get into med school and TFA in the same year (thereby satisfying the 3-year to matriculation requirement upon applying to med school), and are forced to defer your acceptance upon acceptance into TFA (i.e., what OP himself/herself suggested a few posts before).

However, it is seen as dishonest to do this (i.e., applying with an intention of deferring) by SOME (not all) adcoms. LizzyM has said in the past that one should apply out the year before one hopes to attend medical school.
 
My post seems to have been lost in the bustle.

I'll re-state it for the OP and others reading:

"Unless you answer yes to the question, "Do you want to be a teacher?" you should not apply to TFA."

This Former TFA Corps Member Thinks You Should Join City Year Instead said:
I still learned a lot during my time in the corps. I saw first hand the severity of educational inequality in this country, an experience that will undoubtedly impact the rest of my life. I was able to forge meaningful, lasting connections with my students, many of whom I am still in touch with.

I absolutely did not need to join TFA to have these experiences.

In fact, I've known several colleagues who actually helped other teachers instead of putting them out of work.

These colleagues were corps members of City Year, an organization that places its members in teaching assistant roles in schools across America. City Year corps members assist lead teachers by working with small groups, monitoring individual students for comprehension, or even adding an additional set of eyes for disciplinary issues. In an environment where many teachers are severely overworked, City Year corps members make a significant impact in the classroom

Unless you are certain your future is in primary education, TFA is not a good fit. It's lengthy, arduous, and of dubious worth to the community - but City Year is, in nearly all ways, superior for the pre-medical student. It's shorter, does not in any way displace the unionized teaching force, and is still an excellent way to make an impact through education in severely disadvantaged communities.
 
My post seems to have been lost in the bustle.

I'll re-state it for the OP and others reading:

"Unless you answer yes to the question, "Do you want to be a teacher?" you should not apply to TFA."



Unless you are certain your future is in primary education, TFA is not a good fit. It's lengthy, arduous, and of dubious worth to the community - but City Year is, in nearly all ways, superior for the pre-medical student. It's shorter, does not in any way displace the unionized teaching force, and is still an excellent way to make an impact through education in severely disadvantaged communities.

I appreciate your opinion, and certainly do not doubt the merits of City Year. I know many who were very happy with their time in that program. I am not so sure you can say it is "in nearly all ways, superior" though. There are a lot of things TFA has that City Year does not (Autonomy in the classroom, a large national support system, being paid a first year teacher's salary, to name a few).

Clearly we're both biased though, and I think they're both great programs (Again this is my own opinion, and not that of the Teach for America organization).
 
My post seems to have been lost in the bustle.

I'll re-state it for the OP and others reading:

"Unless you answer yes to the question, "Do you want to be a teacher?" you should not apply to TFA."



Unless you are certain your future is in primary education, TFA is not a good fit. It's lengthy, arduous, and of dubious worth to the community - but City Year is, in nearly all ways, superior for the pre-medical student. It's shorter, does not in any way displace the unionized teaching force, and is still an excellent way to make an impact through education in severely disadvantaged communities.

I don't want to come across rude but what you are saying here about TFA is incorrect. The primary goals of TFA are not what you're presenting them to be. I am telling you that from my personal experience being a corps member, volunteering, and working for this organization.

Now, I've never heard of City Year but from what you have described it sounds like a great program that does good things for the underprivileged communities. I don't think you're doing it justice by trying to juxtapose it to TFA as somehow a more superior way for someone not interested in becoming a career teacher to spend their time.
 
I appreciate your opinion, and certainly do not doubt the merits of City Year. I know many who were very happy with their time in that program. I am not so sure you can say it is "in nearly all ways, superior" though. There are a lot of things TFA has that City Year does not (Autonomy in the classroom, a large national support system, being paid a first year teacher's salary, to name a few).

Clearly we're both biased though, and I think they're both great programs (Again this is my own opinion, and not that of the Teach for America organization).

Superior for pre-meds. TFA is excellent if you want to teach (possible social harms aside); the cost-benefit calculus becomes much more murky when you are explicitly using it for your CV or personal interest rather than academic experience.
 
I appreciate your opinion, and certainly do not doubt the merits of City Year. I know many who were very happy with their time in that program. I am not so sure you can say it is "in nearly all ways, superior" though. There are a lot of things TFA has that City Year does not (Autonomy in the classroom, a large national support system, being paid a first year teacher's salary, to name a few).

Clearly we're both biased though, and I think they're both great programs (Again this is my own opinion, and not that of the Teach for America organization).

I can't imagine making a one year commitment to something without getting at least a livable salary.
 
I can't imagine making a one year commitment to something without getting at least a livable salary.

Are you speaking about CY? We get a living stipend and are eligible for food stamps (total ~1.1k/mo.), plus the 5.5k education award at the end of service. Hourly, yes, you're below minimum wage - but it's certainly livable. I pick up the occasional scribing shift in the ED on the weekends and I don't have any problems paying my rent or bills.

I don't want to disparage TFA - for people who want to teach, it's an excellent route into the profession. The OP, though, is a) worried about the 2 year time commitment and b) explicitly not going into education. I encourage people to read the article I linked a few posts up. It cites an excellent brief about TFA if you're in to data, and if you're not it offers compelling anecdotal experiences he and others experienced.

I know many, many TFA people; there is obviously a big overlap between CY, TFA, TeachNOLA, and the other teaching/educational-service type program. One of my lead teachers is a first-year TFA guy, and, well... he's struggling. We're in a very difficult school environment. I do my best to help, but there are days when he vents to me about his urge to quit. Obviously, again, this is anecdotal, and I know other TFA members that made it through their service without incident, but I just can't recommend the program to someone who is clearly not going in to teaching. I mean, when more than 50% of corps members are out of teaching after year 2, what does that tell you?
 
I appreciate your opinion, and certainly do not doubt the merits of City Year. I know many who were very happy with their time in that program. I am not so sure you can say it is "in nearly all ways, superior" though. There are a lot of things TFA has that City Year does not (Autonomy in the classroom, a large national support system, being paid a first year teacher's salary, to name a few).

Clearly we're both biased though, and I think they're both great programs (Again this is my own opinion, and not that of the Teach for America organization).

But here's what I don't get. Is the autonomy in the classroom primarily for your benefit, or for your students' benefit? ....
 
I know many, many TFA people; there is obviously a big overlap between CY, TFA, TeachNOLA, and the other teaching/educational-service type program. One of my lead teachers is a first-year TFA guy, and, well... he's struggling. We're in a very difficult school environment. I do my best to help, but there are days when he vents to me about his urge to quit. Obviously, again, this is anecdotal, and I know other TFA members that made it through their service without incident, but I just can't recommend the program to someone who is clearly not going in to teaching. I mean, when more than 50% of corps members are out of teaching after year 2, what does that tell you?

The attrition rate out of FT teaching is 46%.
 
The attrition rate out of FT teaching is 46%.

Based upon TFA's own survery data? I'll block quote a section of the aforementioned policy brief that shows those numbers to be highly optimistic.

Reporting on TFA’s longitudinal national survey of alumni, Miner (30) suggests that “all one can say with certainty is that in 2007, at least 16.6 percent of those recruited by Teach For America were teaching in a K-12 setting beyond their two-year commitment.” A number of research studies examining TFA in localities nationwide looks more closely at the retention rate using administrative data, which are more accurate for this purpose than TFA’s partial survey data. Findings from those studies are no more encouraging than Miner’s report.

In a New York City study, teachers from traditional college teacher education program teachers were found to have the lowest short-term and long-term turnover rates, followed by temporarily licensed teachers; attrition was “substantially” higher for TFA members.(31) By the second year, the study found TFA attrition in New York City to be triple the rate of college-recommended teachers, and double that of teachers from other alternative routes. By the fourth year, 85% of TFA teachers had left the district, compared to 37% attrition for the traditionally educated teachers—alternatively phrased, only 15% of TFA teachers remained, while 63% of the college educated teachers stayed.

An analysis of six years of Houston’s primary school data similarly found that very few TFA teachers remained in the district for the long haul. (32) Attrition rates for TFA teachers were about twice those of non-TFA teachers. Of teachers who entered Houston schools in 1998, 85% of TFA teachers had left after three years, compared with about 45% of non-TFA teachers. A study of teacher attrition in Baltimore from 1999-2004 found that TFA teachers were marginally less likely (<3%) than traditionally and conditionally certified teachers to leave in the first two years, but far more likely to leave left thereafter, with about 60% having left after three years and 80% after five. (33) Noell and Gansle (34) found that in three TFA cohorts in Louisiana (entering 2003-2004, 2004-2005, and 2005-2006), the percent of TFA teachers remaining by the fifth year ranged from 4% to 20%. By comparison, for all three cohorts, about 65% to 70% of teachers who had received standard certification remained after five years. The authors relate that “the persistence in teaching data clearly demonstrate that a small minority of Louisiana TFA Corps members persist to the fourth year in teaching and beyond.” (freshbagels: I can confirm that this is my experience with TFA teachers in the LA area.) (35)

Miner (36) cites Barnett Barry, President and CEO of the Center for Teaching Quality, as aptly summarizing the retention picture: “TFA gets its recruits ready for a sprint, not a 10K or a marathon.” The weight of the empirical literature consistently finds a rate of attrition for TFA teachers of 80% or more by the fourth year of teaching.
 
Are you speaking about CY? We get a living stipend and are eligible for food stamps (total ~1.1k/mo.), plus the 5.5k education award at the end of service. Hourly, yes, you're below minimum wage - but it's certainly livable. I pick up the occasional scribing shift in the ED on the weekends and I don't have any problems paying my rent or bills.
I am not sure if I would call being in this situation "receiving a livable wage". It may be just me but I would draw a line on voluntarily getting a job that would require me to use food stamps.
I don't want to disparage TFA - for people who want to teach, it's an excellent route into the profession. The OP, though, is a) worried about the 2 year time commitment and b) explicitly not going into education. I encourage people to read the article I linked a few posts up. It cites an excellent brief about TFA if you're in to data, and if you're not it offers compelling anecdotal experiences he and others experienced.
I am sorry but you are wrong. TFA is not designed as an alternative route to become a teacher. You can read my original post in this thread to get some understanding of why TFA exists. I am definitely interested in the data and have seen numerous studies with the newest form 2011 showing overall positive results for the organization. That said, the data you presented is biased because it is not the only metric that should be used to assess the impact of TFA. TFA has other goals I have alluded to earlier and I believe it is phenomenally successful in achieving those. I have only anecdotal data to support it at a moment but can dig up more info if its needed.
I know many, many TFA people; there is obviously a big overlap between CY, TFA, TeachNOLA, and the other teaching/educational-service type program. One of my lead teachers is a first-year TFA guy, and, well... he's struggling. We're in a very difficult school environment. I do my best to help, but there are days when he vents to me about his urge to quit. Obviously, again, this is anecdotal, and I know other TFA members that made it through their service without incident, but I just can't recommend the program to someone who is clearly not going in to teaching. I mean, when more than 50% of corps members are out of teaching after year 2, what does that tell you?
You're not looking at a bigger picture. I urge you to refer to other source and speak to people who understand the organization and its mission much more than some educational think tank.
 
I am not sure if I would call being in this situation "receiving a livable wage". It may be just me but I would draw a line on voluntarily getting a job that would require me to use food stamps.

I am sorry but you are wrong. TFA is not designed as an alternative route to become a teacher. You can read my original post in this thread to get some understanding of why TFA exists. I am definitely interested in the data and have seen numerous studies with the newest form 2011 showing overall positive results for the organization. That said, the data you presented is biased because it is not the only metric that should be used to assess the impact of TFA. TFA has other goals I have alluded to earlier and I believe it is phenomenally successful in achieving those. I have only anecdotal data to support it at a moment but can dig up more info if its needed.

You're not looking at a bigger picture. I urge you to refer to other source and speak to people who understand the organization and its mission much more than some educational think tank.

Is there something wrong with accepting food stamps...? No one in the corps that I know is struggling to make ends meet. We aren't doing this for the money, but no one is starving or anything.

I understand TFA. I teach with TFA teachers. I teach with TeachNOLA teachers. I teach with traditionally-certified teachers. I'm well-versed in what TFA is and does, and I've shown relatively expansive data that a) there is tremendous post-term turnover (i.e., most who go in to TFA do not commit to a career in teaching) and b) the efficacy of TFA teachers is dubious at best. I would love to see your "numerous studies showing overall positive results from the organization."

Be that all as it may, I am not here to debate the merits of TFA writ large; the OP was asking about doing TFA as a pre-med, which I categorically believe is a poor idea. Specifically, she was concerned about her MCAT expiring (which, after 3 years, it would, for many allopathic US schools), which is why I recommended an alternative educational-service program. Further, those going in to TFA which the express goal of not teaching do a disservice to their students and the community at large - in general, year 1 and year 2 teachers are not good. There are obvious exceptions here, particularly if the novice teacher has their credentials or has been trained in pedagogy (which is untrue for nearly all TFA members), but teachers really only "hit their stride" after a couple of years. You are essentially subjecting inner-city, disadvantaged youth to poor teaching for that period of time - as put very well by this delightfully insightful Onion article.
 
Is there something wrong with accepting food stamps...? No one in the corps that I know is struggling to make ends meet. We aren't doing this for the money, but no one is starving or anything.
Absolutely nothing. I think there are better uses for them like people who actually can't be in a position to not need them.
I understand TFA. I teach with TFA teachers. I teach with TeachNOLA teachers. I teach with traditionally-certified teachers. I'm well-versed in what TFA is and does, and I've shown relatively expansive data that a) there is tremendous post-term turnover (i.e., most who go in to TFA do not commit to a career in teaching) and b) the efficacy of TFA teachers is dubious at best. I would love to see your "numerous studies showing overall positive results from the organization."
Here you go.
https://www.teachforamerica.org/sites/default/files/what_the_research_says.pdf

And based on your posts, unfortunately, I believe that you do not understand the bigger picture. Again, please refer to my original response to the OP.
Be that all as it may, I am not here to debate the merits of TFA writ large; the OP was asking about doing TFA as a pre-med, which I categorically believe is a poor idea. Specifically, she was concerned about her MCAT expiring (which, after 3 years, it would, for many allopathic US schools), which is why I recommended an alternative educational-service program. Further, those going in to TFA which the express goal of not teaching do a disservice to their students and the community at large - in general, year 1 and year 2 teachers are not good. There are obvious exceptions here, particularly if the novice teacher has their credentials or has been trained in pedagogy (which is untrue for nearly all TFA members), but teachers really only "hit their stride" after a couple of years. You are essentially subjecting inner-city, disadvantaged youth to poor teaching for that period of time - as put very well by this delightfully insightful Onion article.
Debating the merits of TFA is what you have actually been doing. When the OP didn't show any interest in your program you decided to repeat your original message and add some TFA-bashing to it (I know this is a strong word but I can't think of anything nicer to say since you make your point pretty clear posting the article from the Onion). I am sorry again, but your comments show some explainable disdain for TFA in a light of how great your organization is.
 
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