Telling PD that they are #1..bad Idea???

[Pegasus]

It just seems that so many are telling the #1 program that they are tops...and I wondered if there is any backfire in this situation. What if they dont like you as much and rank you lower..or not rank you at all?

My #1 told me that I am a 'strong applicant' and that a lot of people liked me. Still, I WANT to go here...so bad that I cannot think of going anywhere else. I am considering letting them know that they are #1, but I dont want to hurt my chances.

Any thoughts?

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[GCS:3]

The way I look at it, it can't hurt. They should still play their cards the way we do, and rank who they want, not who wants them.

In your situation, if he's telling you that you're strong, maybe too strong, he should still want you. Unless you just didn't fit in in their eyes. Otherwise the PD just isn't doing his job. They should want the strongest students that will fit in to the program.

 

[the END.]

Yeah, I agree with GCS:3. Unless the PD has some kind of personality flaw or you ask for inappropriate information (like where they intend to rank you), telling someone you intend to rank #1 is pretty benign. As GCS:3 said, unless the PD isn't doing his job correctly, it really can't hurt.

At worst, the PD already had you #1 on his list and now will drop you to his last guaranteed spot.
Example: You tell program A that you intend to rank #1. You were already tentatively #1 on the program's list. If program A takes 10 residents, then it behooves an intelligent PD to drop you to number 10 because you showed your hand. Now he has 9 spots to be more aggressive for candidates he may not have initially thought he could get. Remember, the programs benefit from ranking applicants that are good fits but unlikely to come there (too strong) higher than his sure shot (you) just in case they make an ROL mistake (like being too sure of themselves and short listing an ROL). Regardless, YOU would still match his program.

That said, strong programs probably get quite a few letters of intent so one can never be sure.

 

[rustybruce]

I am no math expert, but to my knowledge, if a program has ten spots, rankings 1-10 are mathematically equivalent. There is no reason to drop you to #10.

 

[raptor5]

I am no math expert, but to my knowledge, if a program has ten spots, rankings 1-10 are mathematically equivalent. There is no reason to drop you to #10.

Only if they can outrank another program for an applicant. Right.

 

[Seaglass]

nly if they can outrank another program for an applicant. Right.

I.....don't think so. If program X ranks me #5 and program Y ranks me #2, I will go to the program that I rank higher. If I ranked Program X #1 then I will go there over program Y. You cannot have equality in programs because you cannot rank two programs the same so thhere will never be a "tug-of-war" between two programs. One program will always be higher on your ROL than another. That said, you always go to the highest progam you have ranked that has a spot for you. Period.

In this situation spots 1 and 10 are absolutely equal, there is a guarunteed spot for you there if you rank them first. If you rank them last and you have to go that far down your list there will still be a guarunteed spot for you there.

I don't know where this keeps coming from that a program can pull you away from one you have ranked higher by putting your higher on their ROL. It is against the match rules and would in fact be a breach of the match contract with you.

So, again, you cannot be pulled farther down your ROL by program that rank you higher than your #1 choice did. You may wind up at one of those programs by nature of the fact that your #1 filled before they got to you on their ROL, but you didn't get "pulled" down there, that's just the way the system works.

Casey

 

[Seaglass]

At worst, the PD already had you #1 on his list and now will drop you to his last guaranteed spot.
Example: You tell program A that you intend to rank #1. You were already tentatively #1 on the program's list. If program A takes 10 residents, then it behooves an intelligent PD to drop you to number 10 because you showed your hand. Now he has 9 spots to be more aggressive for candidates he may not have initially thought he could get. Remember, the programs benefit from ranking applicants that are good fits but unlikely to come there (too strong) higher than his sure shot (you) just in case they make an ROL mistake (like being too sure of themselves and short listing an ROL). Regardless, YOU would still match his program.

Also, this is a terrible match strategy for PD's and is absolutely not the strategy the PD's I know said they were taking. A PD does not want to get residents who "made a mistake" and ended up matching at a program they don't really like. These will be unhappy troublesome residents who will make the program look bad. The 3 PD's I know all said that they are looking for the best applicants who are excited about coming to their program. So, using this strategy it would be best to rank 1-10 the best applicants you had who were MOST LIKELY to come to your program by desire.

Casey

 

[jazz]

our med school dean used to tell us that we could write to our number 1 and inform them. but they warned them only to do it for your true number 1 and not multiple places. they warned about reputation of the school, your reputation, etc, etc.

that being said, i am a resident now and it seems like so many people write a program saying they are number 1. i really don't think most programs even take it into account. i think programs make rank lists based on who they want, period. truthfully, if i were a program director, i wouldn't trust anyone.

but at the same time, it probably doesn't hurt. i think it can only help. i mean if a program uses your interest against you, that seems messed up too.

 

[the END.]

OK, I realize that my previous post was made and worded in a way that was not most accurate. The strategy of ranking more desirable candidates with less liklihood of matching (because they are too strong) is not the MAXIMUM use of match strategy because you risk matching an applicant that is not overjoyed (such as they made a mistake). However, it is a well known strategy and all who doubt me can go the the NRMP website and read the algorithims for themselves.

And yes, if a program has 10 slots then #1 through #10 are equal. That was just poor logic on my part.

And finally, the PD's aren't supposed to rank superb candidates that they do NOT want, only those they DO. Thus, even if the candidate made a mistake by short-listing an ROL, the PD and program still get candidates they wanted. The argument that it benefits ranking great candidates they want but have little chance of matching is still a valid strategy.

 

[Seaglass]

Hey, all I can say is that's not what I get out of the NRMP site. What I see is that programs rank applicants in the order they would like to have them, and you should do the same with your ROL. The 3 PD's I know agree with the "I don't want to go too far down my list" strategy and made it clear that they rank especially interested applicants higher, all other things being equal.

Casey

 

[docB]

When I was a resident my PD told me many times that PDs talk to each other a lot. If someone has told several different programs that they are #1 and the PDs find out it make the applicant look insincere. The other thing he said is that anyone who bashes another program is toast because it will probably get back to them and it makes the PD think that the applicant will just bash his program down the road.