telling people I'm a med student even if they don't know what DO means

[drctother]

The post I was replying to and several others here called out the job of the person they were "arguing" with.

Just because you have MD after your name doesn't give anyone the right to look down on anyone else. I'm shocked that other DO students engaged in this very action when some MDs erroneously look down upon DOs.

A piece of paper does not make you smarter or superior to any person. You are no better and no worse than the garbage man or the cashier at Burger King.

I did not read that far above so I guess I was wrong to defend other med students. I do not agree with putting other people from another profession down based off their profession. If they are however arrogant or stupid for other reasons, well thats a different story.....

Society needs bankers, cops, hair stylists, and fast food employees just as it needs doctors

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[tehdude]

Just because you have MD after your name doesn't give anyone the right to look down on anyone else.

Who are you to tell me what I should or shouldn't do? I will look down on anyone I feel like.

You are no better and no worse than the garbage man or the cashier at Burger King.

Sure, buddy.

If people accept the premise that some conditions (like wealth, intelligence, education) are more favorable than others (poverty, stupidity, ignorance), then objective judgments of better and worse can be made. You can also make objective judgments of worth to society. I am better than my garbage man. Deal with it.

 

[patel2]

Who are you to tell me what I should or shouldn't do? I will look down on anyone I feel like.



Sure, buddy.

If people accept the premise that some conditions (like wealth, intelligence, education) are more favorable than others (poverty, stupidity, ignorance), then objective judgments of better and worse can be made. You can also make objective judgments of worth to society. I am better than my garbage man. Deal with it.

 

[TeamZissou]

This thread is stupid. I've been waiting for it to hopefully die out but it hasn't. If you don't have confidence in your being a medical student just bc you're a DO then why the hell did you go to school there? It's all a moot point because the only thing that really matters is the knowledge you attain which is available to anyone who wants to pick up a textbook. Stop whining and do work!

 

[carolinablue]

This thread is stupid. I've been waiting for it to hopefully die out but it hasn't. If you don't have confidence in your being a medical student just bc you're a DO then why the hell did you go to school there? It's all a moot point because the only thing that really matters is the knowledge you attain which is available to anyone who wants to pick up a textbook. Stop whining and do work!

i know man im trynig to get this thread closed but i cant do it....

 

[Shnurek]

I feel you DO's. Us future OD's have to deal with a lot of smack from mostly MD's and some DO's cough*Jaggerplate*cough especially after some of our recent legislative victories.

 

[cbrons]

The post I was replying to and several others here called out the job of the person they were "arguing" with.

Just because you have MD after your name doesn't give anyone the right to look down on anyone else. I'm shocked that other DO students engaged in this very action when some MDs erroneously look down upon DOs.

A piece of paper does not make you smarter or superior to any person. You are no better and no worse than the garbage man or the cashier at Burger King.

Yup no better, def not smarter... Why dont we let a burger flipper perform a bone marrow transplant then?

 

[Journey2become]

Yup no better, def not smarter... Why dont we let a burger flipper perform a bone marrow transplant then?

Flawed logic.
I wouldn't want Albert Einstein to do a bone marrow transplant either, because he wasn't trained. It would be even weirder considering he's dead...

 

[JaggerPlate]

I feel you DO's. Us future OD's have to deal with a lot of smack from mostly MD's and some DO's cough*Jaggerplate*cough especially after some of our recent legislative victories.

Wheww, you got me broheim ... the biggest problem with ODs running around with unrestricted surgical and laser privileges in certain states in the flack you have to take from me (and the 100% of residents and attendings that agree). Screw the patients ... right?

Additionally, anyone who wants to research the issue can see how laughable the whole situation is. No one in this forum feels any sort of fraternal connection to you, and any "smack" is brought upon yourselves. Additionally, congratulations on your "victory" ... bribing the KY government over $400k to rush the bill through and purposely skip the standard health and safety committee review is a true accomplishment.

Worry about kiosks inside Wal Mart defeating your profession ... not me pointing out the hilarious absurdity of ODs push to play "surgeon."

 

[carolinablue]

Wheww, you got me broheim ... the biggest problem with ODs running around with unrestricted surgical and laser privileges in certain states in the flack you have to take from me (and the 100% of residents and attendings that agree). Screw the patients ... right?

Additionally, anyone who wants to research the issue can see how laughable the whole situation is. No one in this forum feels any sort of fraternal connection to you, and any "smack" is brought upon yourselves. Additionally, congratulations on your "victory" ... bribing the KY government over $400k to rush the bill through and purposely skip the standard health and safety committee review is a true accomplishment.

Worry about kiosks inside Wal Mart defeating your profession ... not me pointing out the hilarious absurdity of ODs push to play "surgeon."

dude why are you such a dick?

 

[MedicineMike]

dude why are you such a dick?

He is not. He is being 100% accurate in regard to optometrists bribing to get "surgery privelages"

 

[JaggerPlate]

dude why are you such a dick?

The guy randomly came to a completely unrelated thread in the Osteopathic forum to call me out on an issue that was not even being remotely discussed. What kind of response did you expect? Plus, it's valid. Look up the history regarding this issue before you get personally offended by stuff posted on the interweb.

 

[And I Was Like]

The guy randomly came to a completely unrelated thread in the Osteopathic forum to call me out on an issue that was not even being remotely discussed. What kind of response did you expect? Plus, it's valid. Look up the history regarding this issue before you get personally offended by stuff posted on the interweb.

Back onto topic....

I'm an MD student so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt but...

Maybe the AOA needs to run advertisements, I recall hearing from someone for a short time "DOctor begins with DO". A vast majority of the problem is people just have no idea what a DO is unless they have family in the medical field or research it for themselves. Hence, why the AOA should be getting the word out there.

That's my 2 cents. What do you guys think?

 

[patel2]

Back onto topic....

I'm an MD student so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt but...

Maybe the AOA needs to run advertisements, I recall hearing from someone for a short time "DOctor begins with DO". A vast majority of the problem is people just have no idea what a DO is unless they have family in the medical field or research it for themselves. Hence, why the AOA should be getting the word out there.

That's my 2 cents. What do you guys think?

my 2 cents is that the AOA sucks. I understand and appreciate the struggles and victories of DOs in the past, to gain both parity and legitimacy in the medical community. I also understand the reason/importance behind AT Still founding osteopathy, as a means to challenge some of the ridiculous methods of allopathic medicine in the 1800s that were not at all evidence based (not that AT Still's osteopathy was fundamentally better). But really the battle today is already won: how does one justify the AOA's existence in an age where DOs are legally equivalent to MDs, and where even 99% of DOs agree there is no difference in philosophy or clinical approach between MDs and DOs.

Residencies should be entirely integrated (yes, MDs should be allowed to apply to DO derm also), OMM retained through specific residencies (independent or integrated into FM/IM) or an optional elective, and there should just be one degree (perhaps MD / DO for those that want to undertake OMM) ...that's the best way to avoid confusion about what a "DO" is... I really don't think an AOA public education campaign (remember the failed 'let's get a D.O. on ER campaign' lol) will change this.

 

[And I Was Like]

Residencies should be entirely integrated (yes, MDs should be allowed to apply to DO derm), OMM retained through CME or an optional elective, and there should just be one degree (perhaps MD / DO for those that want to undertake OMM) ...that's the best way to avoid confusion about what a "DO" is, I really don't think an AOA public education campaign will change this.

I have to disagree here. They should remain separate degrees unless DO schools seek LCME accreditation, which I believe most DO schools with minor if any changes will be able to have. Of course, I can think of at least one school which will not pass the accreditation checks.

Either way, I don't think renaming the degree would solve this problem. I've seen people purpose MDO and the such but I think that's frankly misleading. Yes, DO is the legal equivalent to an MD but they're still different degrees.

 

[Kevin Baker]

I have to disagree here. They should remain separate degrees unless DO schools seek LCME accreditation, which I believe most DO schools with minor if any changes will be able to have. Of course, I can think of at least one school which will not pass the accreditation checks.

Either way, I don't think renaming the degree would solve this problem. I've seen people purpose MDO and the such but I think that's frankly misleading. Yes, DO is the legal equivalent to an MD but they're still different degrees.

I agree with this. I also think it is important to point out the advantages of having two different accrediting bodies.

One can allow less 'orthodox' moves... expansion at rapid paces, potential accreditation for for-profit schools, and institution of PA to DO bridge programs (I can't think of any stateside PA to MD programs but please correct me if I'm wrong) while the other accrediting body only modestly expands class sizes, shoots down for profit schools, and rejects bridge programs.

Regardless of where one stands on the DO expansion, for profit schools, and bridge programs, success will have huge implications for medicine while a failure won't be terrible if promptly corrected. Fat chance getting the LCME to get all experimental on us. I can't say I agree with all three of the things above but I feel the field of medicine as a whole is better off for having tried them.

 

[Sinfest]

One can allow less 'orthodox' moves... expansion at rapid paces, potential accreditation for for-profit schools, and institution of PA to DO bridge programs (I can't think of any stateside PA to MD programs but please correct me if I'm wrong) while the other accrediting body only modestly expands class sizes, shoots down for profit schools, and rejects bridge programs.

Just want to point out a couple things:

1) According to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medical_schools_in_the_United_States#Developing_medical_schools

(3 new DO schools in the works / 32 current DO schools)x100 = ~10%
(13 new MD schools in the works / 133 current MD schools)x100 = ~10%

2) Palm Beach Medical College is seeking LCME accreditation and is for-profit.

 

[MedicineMike]

my 2 cents is that the AOA sucks. I understand and appreciate the struggles and victories of DOs in the past, to gain both parity and legitimacy in the medical community. I also understand the reason/importance behind AT Still founding osteopathy, as a means to challenge some of the ridiculous methods of allopathic medicine in the 1800s that were not at all evidence based (not that AT Still's osteopathy was fundamentally better). But really the battle today is already won: how does one justify the AOA's existence in an age where DOs are legally equivalent to MDs, and where even 99% of DOs agree there is no difference in philosophy or clinical approach between MDs and DOs.

Residencies should be entirely integrated (yes, MDs should be allowed to apply to DO derm also), OMM retained through specific residencies (independent or integrated into FM/IM) or an optional elective, and there should just be one degree (perhaps MD / DO for those that want to undertake OMM) ...that's the best way to avoid confusion about what a "DO" is... I really don't think an AOA public education campaign (remember the failed 'let's get a D.O. on ER campaign' lol) will change this.

I agree with this. I think opening the option of AOA residencies to MD students will increase exposure of DO

 

[Velocity]

Man: Great! Where are you going to school, [insert name of local, non-academic community hospital]? Will you be a surgeon, or just an MD?

And he was doing so well...

As I understand it, there used to be a difference between surgeons and physicians in the past (and from what I've heard, the distinction still exists in England). If you ever wondered why Columbia's medical school is called the "College of Physicians and Surgeons" - that's why. I don't know that fellow's background, but if he was older that could explain it.

Maybe the AOA needs to run advertisements, I recall hearing from someone for a short time "DOctor begins with DO". A vast majority of the problem is people just have no idea what a DO is unless they have family in the medical field or research it for themselves. Hence, why the AOA should be getting the word out there.

That's my 2 cents. What do you guys think?

My pediatrician (who I continued seeing up until I was 20 or so ) is a DO. The funny thing is that I never knew it until my last visit to his office; by that time I was a pre-med and examined the certificates on his wall. Up until then I had always assumed that he was a MD. Not that it really matters...

Advertising would be one way of accomplishing it; getting one of those doctor television shows to feature a character who was a DO (and make that well-known) would be another way, since a lot of people seem to get their knowledge of the medical system through those shows. Otherwise, I'd imagine that it's something that will come with time. In the grand scheme of medicine, DO's have only recently become equal to MD's (legally), so it makes sense that not everyone is aware of the difference.

 

[Kevin Baker]

Just want to point out a couple things:

1) According to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medical_schools_in_the_United_States#Developing_medical_schools

(3 new DO schools in the works / 32 current DO schools)x100 = ~10%
(13 new MD schools in the works / 133 current MD schools)x100 = ~10%

2) Palm Beach Medical College is seeking LCME accreditation and is for-profit.

True, but the DO expansion has already largely taken place and settled or is in the process of settling(doubling the number of matriculants in 20 years), and on the topic of for profit schools, there is a world of difference between seeking accreditation (which I believe anyone can do) and getting provisional accreditation. We'll see how palm beach goes but I'm giving the osteopathic model credit if for profit medical education takes off.

 

[premedmind]

You know what...who cares what others think. At the end of the day, your going to be a doctor. I'm not in medical school to appease other people and their closed minded ill-informed beliefs. I am in school for myself and myself alone. For my future financial and job security. People can think what they want...when you are WINNING in medicine, nothing else will matter.

This.

I am going to DO school to be a doctor, a physician, and a good one at that. The M.D. or D.O. initials after my name have no bearing on my self-confidence, value or proficiency as a physician. Anyone who refuses to believe this fact is just ignorant, plain and simple.

 

[Jg7]

Ive noticed once you do explain DO to friends/family they will let you know every DO they come across including ones they see on TV...pretty funny. I usually explain it though so at least I know they have the right info

 

[costales]

My 1st post, but I've been lurking off and on for a couple of years.... I'm about to start rotations... My experience is this: I've never had any problems - I just tell people I'm a "medical student" and that's it. Case closed. They've asked me the name of the school and the city it's in. Usually people hear "xyzxzyxyzxzy medicine" and that's good enough for them. A couple of people were more curious so I explained it to them, and I told them there are only two "medical physician" degrees that are recognized in the U.S : DO and MD. And that's it - they were very happy with it. I've had zero problems with people in the healthcare field as far as identifying myself as a DO student. They knew.
I've seen patients call PAs and PTs "Doctors", so nothing surprises me anymore. It's a matter of public education.

 

[MedicineMike]

This reminds me when I used to get called a Doctor all of the time when I volunteered in an ED. I wore a bright red coat that said volunteer in big letters. Strangely enough it mostly happened while I was cleaning the hospital beds.

Moral of story: General Public = ******s

 

[olivedjazzer]

This reminds me when I used to get called a Doctor all of the time when I volunteered in an ED. I wore a bright red coat that said volunteer in big letters. Strangely enough it mostly happened while I was cleaning the hospital beds.

Moral of story: General Public = ******s

Perhaps ****** is a bit strong...how about "painfully unaware of common sense and/or their surroundings"?

 

[patel2]

.

 

[costales]

First year @ TCOM starts July 25th and ends June 8th.
For comparison UT Houston starts Aug 15th and ends May 18, 2012.
I just found your 200+ hours no sacrificing here.

No kidding. I spent a helluva lot more hours in the classroom and on campus at TCOM than my old rooommate who got in at UTSW! (Now why didn't I get in at UTSW? The only difference between me and him was he helped a prof run Minitab on some data and got his name on a paper. So do I feel inferior? **** No.)

 

[TurdBurgler]

So basically this is a thread where uppity DO wannabes whine about the fact that the general public is unfamiliar with the degree they were forced to pursue because they couldn't make it into a real (MD) med school?

 

[MedicineMike]

So basically this is a thread where uppity DO wannabes whine about the fact that the general public is unfamiliar with the degree they were forced to pursue because they couldn't make it into a real (MD) med school?

you sir, are an idiot.

 

[judasreznor]

So basically this is a thread where uppity DO wannabes whine about the fact that the general public is unfamiliar with the degree they were forced to pursue because they couldn't make it into a real (MD) med school?

That definitely appears to be the purpose of this thread. I think the name of this forum needs to include fake somewhere in the name so that people aren't misled into believing that "real" medical students congregate here.

 

[fivescrew]

I've seen patients call PAs and PTs "Doctors", so nothing surprises me anymore.

Well to be fair, some PTs are doctors so in those instances its proper to call them Dr. so and so. I've seen PAs refer to themselves as doctors and that of course is purposely misleading.