Texas Podiatric Jurisprudence Exam

[ExperiencedDPM]

One of “my” former residents will be relocating to Texas. He said he needs to take the Texas Podiatric Jurispridence exam. Apparently they sent him information to a bunch of internet links to study, but not one comprehensive resource.

I have no connections in Texas and was wondering if there are any good resources that are comprehensive of the information needed, vs him having to click on 20 links for information.

I’m licensed in several states and never had to take a jurisprudence exam so I have no information to give him to help.

thanks.

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[Boba Foot]

I had no idea this was a thing. Looking to get licensed in Texas in March when eligible, as I'm currently wrapping up residency in another state. Please let me know if you come across anything decent.

 

[ExperiencedDPM]

I had no idea this was a thing. Looking to get licensed in Texas in March when eligible, as I'm currently wrapping up residency in another state. Please let me know if you come across anything decent.

It’s embarrassing. In the states I’m licensed, podiatry is part of the state board of medical examiners.

From what I’ve learned, Texas restructured a few years ago and DPMs are under the Texas Dept of Licenses and Regulations (or something like that) and DPMs are with midwives, hearing aid dispensers, etc.

And they make you take this jurisprudence exam.

 

[Boba Foot]

It’s embarrassing. In the states I’m licensed, podiatry is part of the state board of medical examiners.

From what I’ve learned, Texas restructured a few years ago and DPMs are under the Texas Dept of Licenses and Regulations (or something like that) and DPMs are with midwives, hearing aid dispensers, etc.

And they make you take this jurisprudence exam.

Yeah, I think I had to get a license through the TDLR back in my former life when I sold product in the booze industry. I guess I haven't made a step up in life after all.

 

[heybrother]

The test is a bummer and unfortunately the second you take it you forget it all. That said - if you look at the materials below you'll ultimately find that almost all of the material comes from like one or two of the sources. The questions really are on the stuff below and its really dry word for word stuff. Can you put testimonials in advertisements, what is the scope of practice in Texas, how do you catch up if you fall behind on CME etc. I hated it and if you don't study I think you'll fail it.

Some of the resources are stupid enormous - like literally they have a thing for surgeons telling you for every surgery what you'd need to consent for in regards to complications. I basically pulled out the ORIF of foot or foot surgery or something like that and it was probably the only thing I needed to know.

I feel for your friend cause I hated how they just gave you a list of CFRs and told you have fun.

It’s embarrassing. In the states I’m licensed, podiatry is part of the state board of medical examiners.

From what I’ve learned, Texas restructured a few years ago and DPMs are under the Texas Dept of Licenses and Regulations (or something like that) and DPMs are with midwives, hearing aid dispensers, etc.

And they make you take this jurisprudence exam.

We got killed by the Sunset Act in 2017. Pretty sure this was devastating to all of the Texas leadership people.

https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/85R/analysis/pdf/HB03078H.pdf#navpanes=0

 

[Feli]

I have never been interested in Texas but have taken jurisprudence exams for half the states I have held licenses in, maybe more than half. Consider yourself lucky if you never had one, lol...

They are an easy and "open book" test that I'd imagine nobody ever fails. As was said above, all of the info comes from one or two webpages (with .gov suffix). You just want to Google probably the TX Podiatry Act about scope and laws... and then the Texas Board of Podiatry rules/structure about CME and etc.

Once you have those open, you can just Ctrl + F to open the find function on the page (search "renew" if the question is about renewal fee, "temp" if it asks about temporary licensure rules, etc). All jurisprudence that I've ever taken were done in about 30min or less with scoring 100% using that way, and that is not cheating... just being smart.

It seems fairly pointless to even have these exams to me, but I think it is mainly just a minor speed bump for licensees and used so they can say you were aware of the rules and regs if you ever ended up in a hearing for violation, complaining about a late fee, don't do your CME, etc. ("ignorance of the rules excuses no one"?)

 

[ExperiencedDPM]

I have never been interested in Texas but have taken jurisprudence exams for half the states I have held licenses in, maybe more than half. Consider yourself lucky if you never had one, lol...

They are an easy and "open book" test that I'd imagine nobody ever fails. As was said above, all of the info comes from one or two webpages (with .gov suffix). You just want to Google probably the TX Podiatry Act about scope and laws... and then the Texas Board of Podiatry rules/structure about CME and etc.

Once you have those open, you can just Ctrl + F to open the find function on the page (search "renew" if the question is about renewal fee, "temp" if it asks about temporary licensure rules, etc). All jurisprudence that I've ever taken were done in about 30min or less with scoring 100% using that way, and that is not cheating... just being smart.

It seems fairly pointless to even have these exams to me, but I think it is mainly just a minor speed bump for licensees and used so they can say you were aware of the rules and regs if you ever ended up in a hearing for violation, complaining about a late fee, don't do your CME, etc. ("ignorance of the rules excuses no one"?)

I have never been interested in Texas but have taken jurisprudence exams for half the states I have held licenses in, maybe more than half. Consider yourself lucky if you never had one, lol...

They are an easy and "open book" test that I'd imagine nobody ever fails. As was said above, all of the info comes from one or two webpages (with .gov suffix). You just want to Google probably the TX Podiatry Act about scope and laws... and then the Texas Board of Podiatry rules/structure about CME and etc.

Once you have those open, you can just Ctrl + F to open the find function on the page (search "renew" if the question is about renewal fee, "temp" if it asks about temporary licensure rules, etc). All jurisprudence that I've ever taken were done in about 30min or less with scoring 100% using that way, and that is not cheating... just being smart.

It seems fairly pointless to even have these exams to me, but I think it is mainly just a minor speed bump for licensees and used so they can say you were aware of the rules and regs if you ever ended up in a hearing for violation, complaining about a late fee, don't do your CME, etc. ("ignorance of the rules excuses no one"?)

He sent me the link he received from Texas. It’s simply a list of links to various sites. One of the dozen or so links is a 164 page document.

And the exam is NOT open book.

 

[dtrack22]

Correct Texas is not open book. MN is though, for example.

When I took it one of the test administrators would review many of the key rules/regs and the important state codes before the test. Magically, they all showed up on the test. So even though you could fail and I believe people have, they made failing it hard… but that was before they were dissolved and absorbed into TDLR.

I’d listen to whatever heybrother says about it though. I don’t remember if they were sent to us or if I got it from a buddy but I remember using/reading a “study guide” of sorts. It was still hundreds of pages of Texas administrative code, but it sounds like it might be a little more concise than what the resident was sent. I’ll see if I can find that.

 

[Feli]

Correct Texas is not open book. MN is though, for example.

When I took it one of the test administrators would review many of the key rules/regs and the important state codes before the test. Magically, they all showed up on the test. So even though you could fail and I believe people have, they made failing it hard… but that was before they were dissolved and absorbed into TDLR.

I’d listen to whatever heybrother says about it though. I don’t remember if they were sent to us or if I got it from a buddy but I remember using/reading a “study guide” of sorts. It was still hundreds of pages of Texas administrative code, but it sounds like it might be a little more concise than what the resident was sent. I’ll see if I can find that.

Yeah, my mistake. Texas is one of the very few (NC is another) that gives their jurisprudence as an in-person exam, but still very easy and they basically tell you exactly what's on it. I imagine the jurisprudence fail rate is virtually zero. It is not anything to stress about. Those are probably more effective as a deterrent to people just collecting licenses since you have to actually go there in person to take the exam and/or do licensee orientation... they don't just give a quicker and simple reciprocity licensing.

Most of the roughly half of all states that do jurisprudence (even pre-COVID) have gone to a format where you print the jurisprudence on their website or they email it to you, you complete on your own time and return it ("open book" style). Ariz, NMex, Mich, etc are this format to my knowledge... NCaro jurisprudence (and significantly long/difficult written/oral cases exams) are in-person, UT and Calif don't have jurisprudence.

 

[ExperiencedDPM]

Yeah, my mistake. Texas is one of the very few (NC is another) that gives their jurisprudence as an in-person exam, but still very easy and they basically tell you exactly what's on it. I imagine the jurisprudence fail rate is virtually zero. It is not anything to stress about. Those are probably more effective as a deterrent to people just collecting licenses since you have to actually go there in person to take the exam and/or do licensee orientation... they don't just give a quicker and simple reciprocity licensing.

Most of the roughly half of all states that do jurisprudence (even pre-COVID) have gone to a format where you print the jurisprudence on their website or they email it to you, you complete on your own time and return it ("open book" style). Ariz, NMex, Mich, etc are this format to my knowledge... NCaro jurisprudence (and significantly long/difficult written/oral cases exams) are in-person, UT and Calif don't have jurisprudence.

I’m afraid you may not really be familiar with the TDLR exam. It can be taken remotely and last year the pass rate was about 70%.

From many I’ve heard from, the issue isn’t the material, it’s ACCESSING the material. They provide a page of internet links (about 15) and each link accesses documents. Some of the documents are 164 pages.

I also heard from someone who recently took the exam and she said she has NO idea where some of the material came from. She remembered several questions and after the exam she looked through all the material and that information was not present.

I don’t think this exam is a “breeze” and that it’s an easy pass. Since yesterday I have heard from a dozen people and not ONE said it was simple.

 

[Feli]

I’m afraid you may not really be familiar with the TDLR exam. It can be taken remotely and last year the pass rate was about 70%...

...I don’t think this exam is a “breeze” and that it’s an easy pass. Since yesterday I have heard from a dozen people and not ONE said it was simple.

Sure, but if you can just take it again the next day or whenever you want to schedule, then it is not really any threat.

It doesn't need to be a problem or a source of frustration. What I am saying is that jurisprudence exams in general are a formality... they have never stopped anyone from getting a state license in TX or anywhere (maybe re-take the jurisprudence quiz for the small minority, at worst). I have might have scored 70 or 75% on some jurisprudence I went too fast on years ago (honestly can't remember)... and had to look it over and submit it again to score 80% or more to check that box off. There is no real consequence for that. Being convicted of a felony or child crime or fraud or pattern malpractice or license discipline in another state or something might obviously stop a state health license, but the jurisprudence part is no sweat since it is easy and/or offers almost instant repeat.

...ABFAS exams or APMLE for students or NC state license or some places that only offer the test once or very few times per year are a major "ruin my life" problem if failed since the test is hard and the taker is locked out for quite awhile and might lose a residency or job or insurance or hospital or etc.

Best of luck to the resident... I'm sure he/she will do fine. Have a party when they pass later this month
The last word is yours.

 

[ExperiencedDPM]

Sure, but if you can just take it again the next day or whenever you want to schedule, then it is not really any threat.

It doesn't need to be a problem or a source of frustration. What I am saying is that jurisprudence exams in general are a formality... they have never stopped anyone from getting a state license in TX or anywhere (maybe re-take the jurisprudence quiz for the small minority, at worst). I have might have scored 70 or 75% on some jurisprudence I went too fast on years ago (honestly can't remember)... and had to look it over and submit it again to score 80% or more to check that box off. There is no real consequence for that. Being convicted of a felony or child crime or fraud or pattern malpractice or license discipline in another state or something might obviously stop a state health license, but the jurisprudence part is no sweat since it is easy and/or offers almost instant repeat.

...ABFAS exams or APMLE for students or NC state license or some places that only offer the test once or very few times per year are a major "ruin my life" problem if failed since the test is hard and the taker is locked out for quite awhile and might lose a residency or job or insurance or hospital or etc.

Best of luck to the resident... I'm sure he/she will do fine. Have a party when they pass later this month
The last word is yours.

Ha, not trying to get the last word. I agree with your comments that in the scheme of things, this exam is just a blip on the screen.

But putting myself in his shoes, I just think he’s stressed since his new job depends on it, he’s dealing with moving, he has to pay some fee for taking it, etc.

So I agree with your assessment. But he’s young and a tad dramatic, so I was hoping there may be some good study reference.

 

[msuDPM]

Yeah, my mistake. Texas is one of the very few (NC is another) that gives their jurisprudence as an in-person exam, but still very easy and they basically tell you exactly what's on it. I imagine the jurisprudence fail rate is virtually zero. It is not anything to stress about. Those are probably more effective as a deterrent to people just collecting licenses since you have to actually go there in person to take the exam and/or do licensee orientation... they don't just give a quicker and simple reciprocity licensing.

Most of the roughly half of all states that do jurisprudence (even pre-COVID) have gone to a format where you print the jurisprudence on their website or they email it to you, you complete on your own time and return it ("open book" style). Ariz, NMex, Mich, etc are this format to my knowledge... NCaro jurisprudence (and significantly long/difficult written/oral cases exams) are in-person, UT and Calif don't have jurisprudence.

Fun fact: You no longer can simply email or fax the Mich jurisprudence exam back. You now need to schedule the exam at a PSI testing center, pay your $60 and take it on site. Still open book, but more annoying because you need to have to print the ~200 pages of resources if you want to take advantage of that. Luckily pretty easy to score the 70% or whatever it is.

 

[NobodyDPM]

Things must have changed. It was joke a 20 years ago.

"Tell me how you would treat Plantar Fasciitis..."

 

[ExperiencedDPM]

Things must have changed. It was joke a 20 years ago.

"Tell me how you would treat Plantar Fasciitis..."

Apparently things changed drastically when the board of podiatry examiners was dissolved (or whatever it was called) and the TDLR took over. I’ve spoken with docs who took it years ago who confirmed your comments.

And I’ve spoken with doctors I consider very bright who took it relatively recently who had to take it a few times to eventually pass.

It’s nice to know that DPMs in Tx are regulated by the same department that oversees midwives, massage therapists, and other “trades”. That’s a real kick in the nuts for our progress.

My friend is an orthopedic surgeon who took the MD jurisprudence exam last year and said it was open book and there are prep books and sample exams. That seems not to exist for DPMs.

 

[NobodyDPM]

Apparently things changed drastically when the board of podiatry examiners was dissolved (or whatever it was called) and the TDLR took over. I’ve spoken with docs who took it years ago who confirmed your comments.

And I’ve spoken with doctors I consider very bright who took it relatively recently who had to take it a few times to eventually pass.

It’s nice to know that DPMs in Tx are regulated by the same department that oversees midwives, massage therapists, and other “trades”. That’s a real kick in the nuts for our progress.

My friend is an orthopedic surgeon who took the MD jurisprudence exam last year and said it was open book and there are prep books and sample exams. That seems not to exist for DPMs.

Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Like in South Carolina.

 

[ExperiencedDPM]

Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Like in South Carolina.

Don’t know anything about your SC reference, but it’s disturbing that the Texas pods have let this happen. When reading about the Texas Sunset Act, apparently the TDLR “took over” for the prior Texas Pod Board due to inefficiencies and consumer complaints regarding lack of correspondence.

Nice to know DPMs are in the same group as hearing aid dispensers and cosmetologists.

My friend/former resident texted me last night that apparently there is a law that if a DPM amputates a “foot” (don’t know the level referenced) it is punishable by jailing the DPM!

 

[heybrother]

Don’t know anything about your SC reference, but it’s disturbing that the Texas pods have let this happen. When reading about the Texas Sunset Act, apparently the TDLR “took over” for the prior Texas Pod Board due to inefficiencies and consumer complaints regarding lack of correspondence.

Nice to know DPMs are in the same group as hearing aid dispensers and cosmetologists.

My friend/former resident texted me last night that apparently there is a law that if a DPM amputates a “foot” (don’t know the level referenced) it is punishable by jailing the DPM!

I don't really have a dog in this fight but I'll throw a few things.

To the victors go the spoils - they could hardly shutdown the board and say it was efficient and well run. The real problem for the board and for podiatry was that it wasn't already integrated into the medical board. Why wasn't it? I don't know. Probably because they didn't want us or because including us would grant us legitimacy. That said, there's an insanity in a lot of podiatrists who believe integration somehow lessens us. Think all the kids who pick Ohio because there aren't MD/DO students there. Maybe podiatry at one point liked having its own board or somehow thought having their own board would allow them to protect and judge podiatrists rather than exposing them to the medical board. I would lean towards the former and it made us vulnerable.

Dtrack did a great job awhile back pointing out that for a big state podiatry is still not integrated enough in our big cities. Consider - there isn't really a residency -in Dallas-. Now, I clerked at Greenville and I fully get that their residents drive into Dallas at every surgery center and get cases. There's some fellowship stuff in the city. However, there is no true hospital based big system residency in Dallas. Austin - also no. Houston - in general very peripheral type systems. San Antonio - sorry, when I went they ate the dregs. S&W's orthos had in the past denied them ankle priviledges at the mothership and they drove to a peripheral hospital for scopes and fusions and such (edit: they do also have other conduits).

Consider that we're opening a totally unnecessary podiatry school in Texas and where are we placing it. In a major city? At an established medical school? No, deep, deep, deep in the bottom of the state at a tiny social justice school UT started that has no history or excellent tradition of podiatry.

If you were to look at all states scope language you would often find them to be quite odd/irregular. The Texas scope doesn't distinguish or spell out. It just says "foot" which most of us take to mean do not disarticulate the entire foot. People do TMAs etc here. A few years ago you couldn't amputate a toe in Arizona. Yeah, the jailing thing is problematic though we're tough on crime here (ha!).

This state has a history of warfare between podiatry and ortho. Our scope "wording" is still quite irregular though people regularly do Achilles tendon surgery, ankle fractures/fusion, scope etc. A past battle over scope went down in flames. The impression I'm under is they intend to try and reach all future battles with orthopedics through consensus.

 

[Boba Foot]

Any idea on how long the Texas license takes to process? Dropped it in the mail 3/1, called today to check the status and they said they have not received it yet.

Trying to get to work ASAP after graduation and don’t want a gap in income due to bureaucracy dicking around.

 

[ExperiencedDPM]

The process will take about 2-3 months, depending on how quick they get your required documents. Once all is received the process is pretty quick and you will have to take the jurisprudence exam. When you pass the exam, you will receive your license in about a day or two.

It’s possible that the process can be much quicker since you are a recent grad and obtaining the required documents will be much quicker.

 

[NobodyDPM]

Any idea on how long the Texas license takes to process? Dropped it in the mail 3/1, called today to check the status and they said they have not received it yet.

Trying to get to work ASAP after graduation and don’t want a gap in income due to bureaucracy dicking around.

Shouldn't take 3 weeks to get to them. I would send another app overnight express, requiring signature.

I can tell you, State Board bureaucracies really suck. When I was applying for one of my state licenses, I had to drive up to the state board office, and meet with the person there, just to get my app looked at. It was a joke. It had been sitting on someone's desk for 3 weeks, under a pile of other apps. That were just sitting there. I literally went through the pile, found mine, and handed it to her, and told her I needed this done ASAP. I was polite and well dressed, and happily she complied. Got my license within days of doing that. And she got flowers from me for her efforts.

 

[Boba Foot]

If anyone ever needs a review document for this, PM me.

 

[air bud]

This test is beyond dumb....like how long do you have to notify someone if x happens (10 days), if y happens (10 days).....but if z happens 14 days. Like change of address for your rad tech. So dumb. Fortunately you can take as often as necessary. And remotely now.

 

[air bud]

Texas Administrative Code

Almost everything you need is right here...working on finding the other chapters

 

[air bud]

Don’t know anything about your SC reference, but it’s disturbing that the Texas pods have let this happen. When reading about the Texas Sunset Act, apparently the TDLR “took over” for the prior Texas Pod Board due to inefficiencies and consumer complaints regarding lack of correspondence.

Nice to know DPMs are in the same group as hearing aid dispensers and cosmetologists.

My friend/former resident texted me last night that apparently there is a law that if a DPM amputates a “foot” (don’t know the level referenced) it is punishable by jailing the DPM!

Foot is exactly the wording used.

 

[Scrantonicity]

This test is beyond dumb....like how long do you have to notify someone if x happens (10 days), if y happens (10 days).....but if z happens 14 days. Like change of address for your rad tech. So dumb. Fortunately you can take as often as necessary. And remotely now.

Man it is nice that it is remote...but it was such a pain...they made me take a picture of my work space like 10 times...each time I had to remove something off of my table that could be used as a "cheating" device. A candle holder was one of them.

I did pass by the skin of my teeth, but yeah unnecessarily brutal...

 

[diabeticfootdr]

Man it is nice that it is remote...but it was such a pain...they made me take a picture of my work space like 10 times...each time I had to remove something off of my table that could be used as a "cheating" device. A candle holder was one of them.

I did pass by the skin of my teeth, but yeah unnecessarily brutal...

Welcome to Texas!

 

[Boba Foot]

Man it is nice that it is remote...but it was such a pain...they made me take a picture of my work space like 10 times...each time I had to remove something off of my table that could be used as a "cheating" device. A candle holder was one of them.

I did pass by the skin of my teeth, but yeah unnecessarily brutal...

Yep, it felt like a damn perp walk or something.

I’ve read that for the Medicine Jurisprudence test in TX, the testing service doesn’t give a damn. Perks of being a real doctor I guess.

 

[air bud]

Passed the 2nd time whew.