Texas Woman's Univ. -Lack of Funding?

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affectiveH3art

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TWU Counseling Psychology seems to have a lack of funding issue and can only guarantee 2 yrs? Yet the program is longer than most counseling program (1-2 yrs longer). So what do they expect us to do? Go into debt?

I'm really frustrated with this idea for such a great and amazing program. I just interviewed it but when confronted with the idea of min. funding and course heavy I am really worried.

Has anyone had a similar experience? Do people just take out a large amount of loans or work outside their full time PhD program. I am really surprised since it is a beautiful campus, great faculty and a respectable university. It's not like I applied for a psy.D at Argosy.....:(

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I applied there, too, so I understand what you're talking about. However, just because they "only guarantee" a certain amount of funding doesn't mean that it is what students get. Where I ended up, the funding is only partially guaranteed yet all students get full funding and there are several other sources of funding that have popped up--so I'm happy and don't have any debt accumulating.

But regarding the PsyD at Argosy, I mean, that's not even comparable! TWU and others have very low tuition, even if you don't get a full tuition waiver.
 
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I don't think funding is only an issue for TWU. A lot of state schools in Texas are experiencing budget cuts and cannot guarantee funding and tuition waivers. I've interview at two other Texas schools and its the same story. If you want to go there, prepare to take out loans and apply for assistantships and scholarships. There are a lot of small scholarships available for grad students and they can add up.
 
Check with the grad students and faculty to find out what that "guaranteed" funding actually means. At a number of schools I applied at, they only guaranteed funding for 4 years but most people were there 5+ years and had received funding through TAing. It may be the same thing at TWU and they are just trying to be extra careful with their wording.

That said, it's great that you are thinking through this big decision.
 
At 2-3k per semester? VS Argosy at 2-3k per class?

You're spiking on histrionic here.

It's called sarcasm. I am just concerned about taking out too many loans that is all. I'm sorry you don't understand my dry humor.:laugh:
 
Check with the grad students and faculty to find out what that "guaranteed" funding actually means. At a number of schools I applied at, they only guaranteed funding for 4 years but most people were there 5+ years and had received funding through TAing. It may be the same thing at TWU and they are just trying to be extra careful with their wording.

That said, it's great that you are thinking through this big decision.

I will do, hopefully I will get an offer and that may be an appropriate time for those questions. I love the program and just hoping it is not as bad as I think. I would have never imagined that such a wonderful and rigorous program would have such minimal funding. It is sad across the board how many budget cuts these programs are getting.
 
The reason TWU and other Texas universities cannot directly provide tuition waivers is because they can't...there are laws in TX that do not allow for tuition wavers for grad school. Asinine, I know.
 
TWU Counseling Psychology seems to have a lack of funding issue and can only guarantee 2 yrs? Yet the program is longer than most counseling program (1-2 yrs longer). So what do they expect us to do? Go into debt?

I'm really frustrated with this idea for such a great and amazing program. I just interviewed it but when confronted with the idea of min. funding and course heavy I am really worried.

Has anyone had a similar experience? Do people just take out a large amount of loans or work outside their full time PhD program. I am really surprised since it is a beautiful campus, great faculty and a respectable university. It's not like I applied for a psy.D at Argosy.....:(

They expect you to find ways to help fund your position to, like applying and competing for grants, which naturally help fund your position. It was very weird the first time I realized how the system worked... I was thinking, but I thought this was a fully funded program... It is, but it isn't guaranteed was what most of them were saying.

Mark
 
They expect you to find ways to help fund your position to, like applying and competing for grants, which naturally help fund your position. It was very weird the first time I realized how the system worked... I was thinking, but I thought this was a fully funded program... It is, but it isn't guaranteed was what most of them were saying.

Mark

Well, whats scary is that most programs that I have applied to have at least 4 years of either TA or RA ships and TWU has minimal TA assistant-ships and almost unheard of RA ships. So after 2 years I have to find my own funding (?) versus other programs have more opportunities for the first 4 years. In addition their program is one year longer than most (7 yr prog.)

Why do they not offer tuition waivers in Texas? Crazy.
 
Where did you hear that the program is 7 years? I thought they only took students with master's degrees? That doesn't make sense. No doctoral program is that long unless there are individual students who take longer to complete.
 
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Where did you hear that the program is 7 years? I thought they only took students with master's degrees? That doesn't make sense. No doctoral program is that long unless there are individual students who take longer to complete.

http://www.twu.edu/psychology-philosophy/counseling-psychology-phd-data.asp

Mean years (2011-2012): 9.4

Take a look. Students told me themselves that it takes from 4-5 years just to complete the coursework. It is a long program- some of the faculty admitted that it was longer than most Phd Counseling programs. Also, they do not take students only with Masters degree. Individuals with MA are considered more competitive but I received an interview...and I have a BS. Every year they accept a few people directly from BA programs. Few as in 1 or 2. Let's hope I am one of those exceptional candidates.

The length of the program has been an issue for some time and in fact recently while APA visited for another 7 yrs of accreditation that was a complaint about the program. So two major cons of program: Minimal funding & long program.

On the brighter side: they have exceptional EPPP pass rates (80-90%) and high match rates.

It may not make sense...but it is what it is.
 
My program can only guarantee funding for the first two years, and they are very explicit about it during interviews. However, they make sure to mention that historically most students receive funding and tuition waivers until they leave the program. I think there's a state law that prevents them from guaranteeing funding for longer than two years, but they obviously do what they can to provide students with funding beyond those two years. As others have said, I would recommend asking graduate students / the DCT regarding how many years students have been funded in the past.

As a side note, there were several other PhD programs I applied to (university-based, NOT professional schools / FSPS) that did not have good funding. They flat out told us that students only get an assistantship for the first 2-3 years and the the tuition waiver was only for the first year. Tuition at those schools was close to $30,000 a year, so even if you get an assistantship you would still be going into debt. They did not mention this on their website, so I found out this funding information when I attended the interviews. My point here is that it's not uncommon for schools to offer less than full funding, and many students end up taking out loans at those schools.
 
My program can only guarantee funding for the first two years, and they are very explicit about it during interviews. However, they make sure to mention that historically most students receive funding and tuition waivers until they leave the program. I think there's a state law that prevents them from guaranteeing funding for longer than two years, but they obviously do what they can to provide students with funding beyond those two years. As others have said, I would recommend asking graduate students / the DCT regarding how many years students have been funded in the past.

As a side note, there were several other PhD programs I applied to (university-based, NOT professional schools / FSPS) that did not have good funding. They flat out told us that students only get an assistantship for the first 2-3 years and the the tuition waiver was only for the first year. Tuition at those schools was close to $30,000 a year, so even if you get an assistantship you would still be going into debt. They did not mention this on their website, so I found out this funding information when I attended the interviews. My point here is that it's not uncommon for schools to offer less than full funding, and many students end up taking out loans at those schools.

What type of program? Counseling/clinic/exp? At least I do not feel alone. I guess I am lucky that if I get an acceptance offer then I will not have to be too preoccupied by outstanding tuition because TWU has low tuition. I'm just alarmed on how funding is so low for Phd programs. I was not aware that this was something to be concerned with when I first started applying. Ignorance? who knows, maybe it's because I am an RA at a lab with Cognitive Development Neuroscience so the grad students might have different experiences than Counseling Psych....:(
 
As a side note, there were several other PhD programs I applied to (university-based, NOT professional schools / FSPS) that did not have good funding. They flat out told us that students only get an assistantship for the first 2-3 years and the the tuition waiver was only for the first year. Tuition at those schools was close to $30,000 a year, so even if you get an assistantship you would still be going into debt. They did not mention this on their website, so I found out this funding information when I attended the interviews. My point here is that it's not uncommon for schools to offer less than full funding, and many students end up taking out loans at those schools.


I really wish schools had to put info like this on their website. Making applicants spend money to travel there to find this out is just wrong.

Affective - Neuro programs tend to have much better funding than clinical programs who in turn tend to have better funding than counseling programs.
 
http://www.twu.edu/psychology-philosophy/counseling-psychology-phd-data.asp

Mean years (2011-2012): 9.4

Take a look. Students told me themselves that it takes from 4-5 years just to complete the coursework. It is a long program- some of the faculty admitted that it was longer than most Phd Counseling programs. Also, they do not take students only with Masters degree. Individuals with MA are considered more competitive but I received an interview...and I have a BS. Every year they accept a few people directly from BA programs. Few as in 1 or 2. Let's hope I am one of those exceptional candidates.

The length of the program has been an issue for some time and in fact recently while APA visited for another 7 yrs of accreditation that was a complaint about the program. So two major cons of program: Minimal funding & long program.

On the brighter side: they have exceptional EPPP pass rates (80-90%) and high match rates.

It may not make sense...but it is what it is.

Sorry, I was under the impression that they were only taking post-master's students now. If you only have a bachelor's degree, I would think that you should expect to take at least 6-7 years to graduate. You need that time to get hours for internship. Not sure why it's taking them 9 years. It's not like TWU is research-intensive or anything, it's a practice-focused school. Maybe you should ask them why their students are taking so long?

I really wish schools had to put info like this on their website. Making applicants spend money to travel there to find this out is just wrong.

Affective - Neuro programs tend to have much better funding than clinical programs who in turn tend to have better funding than counseling programs.

It was my impression that funding was typically displayed in Student Data on the websites. Applicants can also do their homework ahead of time to find out about funding, it's not hard. Email a current student or the faculty and ask. The question applicants should be asking themselves is, "Would it make me decline the interview?" Many times it is the only interview or one of only a few...so you go to check it out anyway. And, sometimes, less funding is worth it for the program's experiences.

Regarding funding, it's not always true across the board about counseling psychology (sorry, pet peeve...we're not counseling, we're psychology) programs. My program has excellent funding. It's a much better deal than some experimental psych programs in areas where the cost of living is high--our stipend is higher and expenses are less than metro area schools.
 
Sorry, I was under the impression that they were only taking post-master's students now. If you only have a bachelor's degree, I would think that you should expect to take at least 6-7 years to graduate. You need that time to get hours for internship. Not sure why it's taking them 9 years. It's not like TWU is research-intensive or anything, it's a practice-focused school. Maybe you should ask them why their students are taking so long?



It was my impression that funding was typically displayed in Student Data on the websites. Applicants can also do their homework ahead of time to find out about funding, it's not hard. Email a current student or the faculty and ask. The question applicants should be asking themselves is, "Would it make me decline the interview?" Many times it is the only interview or one of only a few...so you go to check it out anyway. And, sometimes, less funding is worth it for the program's experiences.



Regarding funding, it's not always true across the board about counseling psychology (sorry, pet peeve...we're not counseling, we're psychology) programs. My program has excellent funding. It's a much better deal than some experimental psych programs in areas where the cost of living is high--our stipend is higher and expenses are less than metro area schools.

"We're not counseling, we're psychology"????....what are you implying? So you are counseling or not, confused....Not all programs have excellent funding FYI so you may be the exception.

It takes 6-7 yrs for a masters student, longer for a bach student. It's taking long because it is COURSE-heavy. They said it themselves. Lots of classes plus practicum. I already asked them, they said exactly this.

I know it's worth it, but I think it is a legitimate concern because I have to consider these things when looking at programs (Isn't that what we are supposed to?).
 
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My program only funds you for the first two years and then the other two are funded through clinical placements. Many of which pay terribly.
 
Yeah, half-time practicum placements. I dunno, like $13/hr for 15-20 hours per week. Plus a lot of times you have to commute anywhere from 20 to 90 miles (some are even further, too) and they don't reimburse you for travel.
 
Yeah, half-time practicum placements. I dunno, like $13/hr for 15-20 hours per week. Plus a lot of times you have to commute anywhere from 20 to 90 miles (some are even further, too) and they don't reimburse you for travel.


Ouch. At least it is better than nothing...
 
Regarding funding, it's not always true across the board about counseling psychology (sorry, pet peeve...we're not counseling, we're psychology) programs. My program has excellent funding. It's a much better deal than some experimental psych programs in areas where the cost of living is high--our stipend is higher and expenses are less than metro area schools.

Sorry didn't mean to offend. Being immersed in the world of psychology, I tend to assume everything is psychology and drop the name when discussing both clinical and counseling psychology programs.

Re. funding: I'm just basing the pattern on what I saw when I applied and what I've heard from friends and other applicants.
 
regardless...I just hope I get accepted. I love the program, the students and the faculty...if I have to take a few loans out so be it.
 
Yeah, half-time practicum placements. I dunno, like $13/hr for 15-20 hours per week. Plus a lot of times you have to commute anywhere from 20 to 90 miles (some are even further, too) and they don't reimburse you for travel.

The program at my undergrad was like this, too. I think it's a consequence of geographically large states with very few programs (one or two).
 
What type of program? Counseling/clinic/exp? At least I do not feel alone. I guess I am lucky that if I get an acceptance offer then I will not have to be too preoccupied by outstanding tuition because TWU has low tuition. I'm just alarmed on how funding is so low for Phd programs. I was not aware that this was something to be concerned with when I first started applying. Ignorance? who knows, maybe it's because I am an RA at a lab with Cognitive Development Neuroscience so the grad students might have different experiences than Counseling Psych....:(

These were all clinical psychology PhD programs. As ResearchGirlie said, they really should be required to include this information on their website--it's simply unfair to disclose this information for the first time at the interview to unsuspecting applicants who thought they were all set in terms of funding because they didn't apply to any for-profit schools.

Also, in response to psychadelic's post, this was NOT just a case of "not doing my homework." It would be pretty presumptuous for applicants to email programs and ask about five years' worth of funding when they haven't even gotten an interview invite yet, and once you have gotten an interview invite it's expected that you save your questions for the actual interview. It would not have been appropriate to just email professors and ask about this, and the information was not available on their websites (I checked, and it's still not there a year later).
 
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I went to UNT which is just around the block from TWU in Denton, and I have been in contact with Dr. Mollen (Director for the M.A. program) and they seem like a great program, I have even reached out to prior M.A. students that have since graduated, I have considered TWU one of my top choices for both M.A. and Ph.D.

I would say if you get an acceptance letter, I would go for it, I am not sure who you have applied with, I know I will apply for the clinical programs at SMU and UTSW (but that is like getting into Harvard as far as I am concerned :p).

Just thought I would throw in my $.02 as a local here.
 
I went to UNT which is just around the block from TWU in Denton, and I have been in contact with Dr. Mollen (Director for the M.A. program) and they seem like a great program, I have even reached out to prior M.A. students that have since graduated, I have considered TWU one of my top choices for both M.A. and Ph.D.

I would say if you get an acceptance letter, I would go for it, I am not sure who you have applied with, I know I will apply for the clinical programs at SMU and UTSW (but that is like getting into Harvard as far as I am concerned :p).

Just thought I would throw in my $.02 as a local here.

It doesn't matter now. They sent their rejection letter tonight. I have 2 gorgeous rejections post-interview now. I have nothing to say about TWU now. Obviously they did not chose me...they would rather chose people already in the program or more "experienced" in counseling. They do not care about ability...

So I am thrown out into the trash and now thinking of another career...maybe I'll go into education- I heard their PhD programs are two years. Screw the "authentic" and geniune route.... then I can go to school as a PA....Leadership PhD than physician assistant so I can be a Dr. and work in healthcare. LOL I'll disgrace everyone working 5+ years in a rigorous PhD program....

yah I should go into education....screw it....screw it all :looks down into bottle: oops I ran out of vodka....har har har
 
It doesn't matter now. They sent their rejection letter tonight. I have 2 gorgeous rejections post-interview now. I have nothing to say about TWU now. Obviously they did not chose me...they would rather chose people already in the program or more "experienced" in counseling. They do not care about ability...

So I am thrown out into the trash and now thinking of another career...maybe I'll go into education- I heard their PhD programs are two years. Screw the "authentic" and geniune route.... then I can go to school as a PA....Leadership PhD than physician assistant so I can be a Dr. and work in healthcare. LOL I'll disgrace everyone working 5+ years in a rigorous PhD program....

yah I should go into education....screw it....screw it all :looks down into bottle: oops I ran out of vodka....har har har

I'm sorry that happened to you. Plenty of good people don't receive offers - as mentioned elsewhere, it's become increasingly competitive to get into a funded PhD program these days - second most competitive field out there (after veterinary school).

I would only caution any program that claims you can obtain a PhD after two years. That's simply impossible in an accredited institution.

On another note, I did know an MFT with a PhD in biology who called himself 'doctor" during therapy. That is straight up unethical, joke or no joke.
 
It doesn't matter now. They sent their rejection letter tonight. I have 2 gorgeous rejections post-interview now. I have nothing to say about TWU now. Obviously they did not chose me...they would rather chose people already in the program or more "experienced" in counseling. They do not care about ability...

So I am thrown out into the trash and now thinking of another career...maybe I'll go into education- I heard their PhD programs are two years. Screw the "authentic" and geniune route.... then I can go to school as a PA....Leadership PhD than physician assistant so I can be a Dr. and work in healthcare. LOL I'll disgrace everyone working 5+ years in a rigorous PhD program....

yah I should go into education....screw it....screw it all :looks down into bottle: oops I ran out of vodka....har har har

This is why we don't drink and post.

I don't know if you are exaggerating, but it sounds like you just want to be called "Dr." This is a really poor reason to get a PhD. Nobody really thinks of us "shrinks" as real doctors anyhow.
 
I know rejection sucks, before I switched careers from being a classical musician, this was reality for me in many ways. It sucks when there are over 100 applicants to audition for one position for bass trombone in an orchestra that opens up every 20-50 years in the U.S. and you compete with already established professionals.

What's even more interesting is, after I stopped teaching and performing professionally, I saw psychology and the practice of it more practical in terms of employment and functionality as far the educational components of this industry v. music.

To get back on topic, I am sorry you got that letter, have you thought about applying to the M.A. program which will not be as difficult to get into as a means to get your foot in the door into their Ph.D program? I have already assumed that I wont stand a chance to get into Ph.D programs from my B.A. program even if I have a good GPA.

I want to practice psychology, preferably in clinical with an emphasis in neuropsychology, but at the end of the day, whether it be clinical or counseling psychology, I would still be happy with either or as I will be applying the science of psychology into a capacity to help people. I also want to teach at a 2-year college. :)
 
This is why we don't drink and post.

I don't know if you are exaggerating, but it sounds like you just want to be called "Dr." This is a really poor reason to get a PhD. Nobody really thinks of us "shrinks" as real doctors anyhow.

I know what you mean!!! LOL, my girlfriend who is a nurse, works with "real doctors" every day and is always trying to twist the knife. I remind her every now and then that every one needs a good mechanic and plumber, and that's what MD's are good at... It's too bad they're envious of what looks like witch magic and voodoo to them. ;) She normally stops after that. LMAO.

When it comes to funding, there are funded programs and then there are FUNDED programs. The more funding, the more strings/selectivity you should expect... My program was definitely fully funded, but in turn, they own me for 6 years post graduation from internship. A few programs (USUHS med/clin civilian psych) have no obvious strings, but are rare birds and as such is extremely selective.

OP - Don't let rejection beat you... I've been rejected more than you!

M
 
This is why we don't drink and post.

I don't know if you are exaggerating, but it sounds like you just want to be called "Dr." This is a really poor reason to get a PhD. Nobody really thinks of us "shrinks" as real doctors anyhow.

Oh no. My sarcasm does not get through online I suppose. I met someone who just graduated from a PhD program. She happily proclaimed it was 2 years. It was quite a shock. I am not devaluing education based programs but I would feel incomplete if it was only 2 years. I need time to dwell in research, not just write "a paper (her words, not mine)."

I pursue a Phd for the challenge and to immerse myself. Not 2 years to write a "paper."

I would never want to be called a Dr. just because....
 
I know what you mean!!! LOL, my girlfriend who is a nurse, works with "real doctors" every day and is always trying to twist the knife. I remind her every now and then that every one needs a good mechanic and plumber, and that's what MD's are good at... It's too bad they're envious of what looks like witch magic and voodoo to them. ;) She normally stops after that. LMAO.

When it comes to funding, there are funded programs and then there are FUNDED programs. The more funding, the more strings/selectivity you should expect... My program was definitely fully funded, but in turn, they own me for 6 years post graduation from internship. A few programs (USUHS med/clin civilian psych) have no obvious strings, but are rare birds and as such is extremely selective.

OP - Don't let rejection beat you... I've been rejected more than you!

M

Ah, rejection beat me that day...then I shook it off. I am happy I applied to many schools because I just realized I am still in the running!!

Although I got a rejection from UT austin (Counseling) they forwarded my app to School Psych program! I am excited there is still a chance!
 
This is why we don't drink and post.

I don't know if you are exaggerating, but it sounds like you just want to be called "Dr." This is a really poor reason to get a PhD. Nobody really thinks of us "shrinks" as real doctors anyhow.

Just a note to all applicants: There are faculty and current grad students from many programs who post and lurk around SDN, so be mindful of what you post.
 
Just a note to all applicants: There are faculty and current grad students from many programs who post and lurk around SDN, so be mindful of what you post.

What?!?! You mean to tell us that people who plan on becoming professionals should watch what they post on the internet?
 
Just a note to all applicants: There are faculty and current grad students from many programs who post and lurk around SDN, so be mindful of what you post.

What?!?! You mean to tell us that people who plan on becoming professionals should watch what they post on the internet?

Seems ludacrious to me...


(says the guy who found out in his first year his DCT lurks here... I know you're here Dr C, and I'll never openly complain again...)
 
This is why we don't drink and post.

I don't know if you are exaggerating, but it sounds like you just want to be called "Dr." This is a really poor reason to get a PhD. Nobody really thinks of us "shrinks" as real doctors anyhow.


My sarcasm does not play well online. Reminder: Don't post sarcastic jokes. People take things very seriously here.
 
The reason TWU and other Texas universities cannot directly provide tuition waivers is because they can't...there are laws in TX that do not allow for tuition wavers for grad school. Asinine, I know.

This is not true.

This IS true. Many PhD programs in psychology at public universities provide department-paid tuition and fees, along with a modest stipend from TA or RA assistantships. Not so in Texas; here in Texas, public universities can provide stipends from TA or RA graduate assistantships, but they CANNOT provide department payment of graduate tuition and fees.
 
This IS true. Many PhD programs in psychology at public universities provide department-paid tuition and fees, along with a modest stipend from TA or RA assistantships. Not so in Texas; here in Texas, public universities can provide stipends from TA or RA graduate assistantships, but they CANNOT provide department payment of graduate tuition and fees.

What I have learned from this experience is that every program is very very different in their funding "capabilities."
 
This IS true. Many PhD programs in psychology at public universities provide department-paid tuition and fees, along with a modest stipend from TA or RA assistantships. Not so in Texas; here in Texas, public universities can provide stipends from TA or RA graduate assistantships, but they CANNOT provide department payment of graduate tuition and fees.


I have multiple friends who have attended or currently attend phd programs at Texas public universities. Many of them have received university based tuition waivers, and this was also mentioned at interview I went on at Texas public universities.
 
This IS true. Many PhD programs in psychology at public universities provide department-paid tuition and fees, along with a modest stipend from TA or RA assistantships. Not so in Texas; here in Texas, public universities can provide stipends from TA or RA graduate assistantships, but they CANNOT provide department payment of graduate tuition and fees.

To echo futureapppsy2, this is completely false from both personal experience and friends who are in psychology PhD programs in Texas.
 
I have multiple friends who have attended or currently attend phd programs at Texas public universities. Many of them have received university based tuition waivers, and this was also mentioned at interview I went on at Texas public universities.


Same here. Maybe they call it something else but it's essentially waved tuition.
 
I'm at TWU and I received a tuition reduction (not a waiver) - I pay in-state rather than out-of-state tuition and fees.
 
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