The 2018-2019 cycle is going to get turned upside down

[theKingLT]

He must have been the first person to get rejected post interview with a good academic record. Clearly it must be because he’s a white republican.

The funny thing is from the perspective of the people who don't know anything about the competitiveness of admissions, there are probably plenty that believe this guy. My non pre-med friends (and even some of the pre-meds sadly) are bewildered that I was rejected by any school just because they knew I had a good mcat and gpa. If he had good stats then people assume he's qualified for any school and shouldn't be rejected anywhere!

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[deleted804295]

Won't it be beneficial for applicants in that schools will accept more than 3x their class amount to anticipate these changes? Or is this unlikely?

 

[deleted804295]

No, not someone who has already been in school for a year. I think this refers to making offers right at the end of the application season June/July. So a school whose class begins in late July could possibly poach a desired student who had already begun classes at his school in June.

That is insane. Having to repeat a full month of school just to go to a 'better' school.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

That is insane. Having to repeat a full month of school just to go to a 'better' school.

Or a school that is your top choice for any number of reasons: family, location, etc.

 

[LizzyM]

This is fascinating. This gentleman seems to be very litigious I am wondering if even ended up with any acceptance.

click on the link Fastcase Public Document

it is a fascinating read. He didn't get into med school but did go to law school and is "barred" (I think that this means that he passed the bar exam and is permitted to practice) in Maine. The judge has a way with words and hooked me at the start with this gem, "Denied admission by every school to which he applied, Pierce turned to the courts for a cure."

 

[libertyyne]

click on the link Fastcase Public Document

it is a fascinating read. He didn't get into med school but did go to law school and is "barred" (I think that this means that he passed the bar exam and is permitted to practice) in Maine. The judge has a way with words and hooked me at the start with this gem, "Denied admission by every school to which he applied, Pierce turned to the courts for a cure."

OMG, seems like the process worked even though he allegedly had a 40 mcat .

"seeing as my uncle is best friends with one of the 1st Circuit Judges, I think I would be able to defend any ruling there . . . .)")."

 

[kepler16b]

click on the link Fastcase Public Document

it is a fascinating read. He didn't get into med school but did go to law school and is "barred" (I think that this means that he passed the bar exam and is permitted to practice) in Maine. The judge has a way with words and hooked me at the start with this gem, "Denied admission by every school to which he applied, Pierce turned to the courts for a cure."

This is truly a wild ride to read. Allegedly, he earned a perfect score on the MCAT and applied to medical schools between 2009 and 2015, obtaining an interview at Yale in 2015.

He claims that MAR eliminated his chance at acceptance, ignoring the fact that all of his clams of MAR affecting acceptance depend on having at least one other acceptance elsewhere!

I also have my doubts that he was seriously interrogated about his political preferences... More likely he was posed an ethical dilemma and answered in an alarming way, and the response of the interviewer was interpreted as "political".

This is a gem:

"Pierce broadly alleges that the MAR 'enables this sort of political and racial discrimination" because without access to the information on that report, "market forces [would] constrain the ability of universities to exact retribution on the Plaintiff (and others demographically similar to him) for the perceived sins of his ancestors.' Id. ¶ 56. To support this assertion, Pierce spins out a 'mathematical model' in his complaint which estimates that, absent the MAR, Yale would have to more than double the number of students it admits in order to achieve its target class size. Id. ¶ 41. Under this model, Pierce contends that Yale 'would have necessarily admitted' him had it not received the MAR."

Again, since he had no other acceptances, MAR did not affect his admissions decision! If anything it had a positive effect because he would be a high-yield admit!

I feel sorry that Judge Cooper had to waste so much time writing a decision to dismiss this case.

 

[libertyyne]

This is truly a wild ride to read. Allegedly, he earned a perfect score on the MCAT and applied to medical schools between 2009 and 2015, obtaining an interview at Yale in 2015.

He claims that MAR eliminated his chance at acceptance, ignoring the fact that all of his clams of MAR affecting acceptance depend on having at least one other acceptance elsewhere!

I also have my doubts that he was seriously interrogated about his political preferences... More likely he was posed an ethical dilemma and answered in an alarming way, and the response of the interviewer was interpreted as "political".

This is a gem:

"Pierce broadly alleges that the MAR 'enables this sort of political and racial discrimination" because without access to the information on that report, "market forces [would] constrain the ability of universities to exact retribution on the Plaintiff (and others demographically similar to him) for the perceived sins of his ancestors.' Id. ¶ 56. To support this assertion, Pierce spins out a 'mathematical model' in his complaint which estimates that, absent the MAR, Yale would have to more than double the number of students it admits in order to achieve its target class size. Id. ¶ 41. Under this model, Pierce contends that Yale 'would have necessarily admitted' him had it not received the MAR."

Again, since he had no other acceptances, MAR did not affect his admissions decision! If anything it had a positive effect because he would be a high-yield admit!

I feel sorry that Judge Cooper had to waste so much time writing a decision to dismiss this case.

He has a habit of suing medical schools.
Diverse Docket: Title IX Suit Against Stony Brook Moves Forward
PIERCE v. REGENTS OF UNIV | No. B262545. | 20160309038 | Leagle.com
Samuel Pierce v. Rona Woldenberg, No. 2:2011cv04248 - Document 51 (E.D.N.Y. 2012)


He has been trying a variety of combinations of suits with different approaches of discrimination. Not successful in any way so far.

Even with 40 mcat seems like he lacks insight.

 

[precisiongraphic]

click on the link Fastcase Public Document

it is a fascinating read. He didn't get into med school but did go to law school and is "barred" (I think that this means that he passed the bar exam and is permitted to practice) in Maine. The judge has a way with words and hooked me at the start with this gem, "Denied admission by every school to which he applied, Pierce turned to the courts for a cure."

Judge's ruling is great: Decisions by academic institutions about which and how many students to admit are noncommercial and therefore not covered by the Sherman Act … The Sherman Act was certainly not intended to provide a forum wherein disgruntled applicants to medical school could challenge their rejections.

 

[DubbiDoctor]

click on the link Fastcase Public Document

it is a fascinating read. He didn't get into med school but did go to law school and is "barred" (I think that this means that he passed the bar exam and is permitted to practice) in Maine. The judge has a way with words and hooked me at the start with this gem, "Denied admission by every school to which he applied, Pierce turned to the courts for a cure."

Samuel Pierce v. Rona Woldenberg, No. 2:2011cv04248 - Document 51 (E.D.N.Y. 2012)

"Plaintiff further alleges that various top officials at Hofstra university are 'prominent contributors to Jewish organizations in Long Island'". Thank God this loser was denied entry and won't be treating my family members. Ironically, he may have had better luck had he applied to Touro.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Samuel Pierce v. Rona Woldenberg, No. 2:2011cv04248 - Document 51 (E.D.N.Y. 2012)

"Plaintiff further alleges that various top officials at Hofstra university are 'prominent contributors to Jewish organizations in Long Island'". Thank God this loser was denied entry and won't be treating my family members. Ironically, he may have had better luck had he applied to Touro.

Wow. The complete lack of self awareness some people demonstrate is astounding.

 

[Goro]

click on the link Fastcase Public Document

it is a fascinating read. He didn't get into med school but did go to law school and is "barred" (I think that this means that he passed the bar exam and is permitted to practice) in Maine. The judge has a way with words and hooked me at the start with this gem, "Denied admission by every school to which he applied, Pierce turned to the courts for a cure."

I love these lines from the ruling:

The Sherman Act was certainly not intended to provide a forum wherein disgruntled applicants to medical school could challenge their rejections.

...the rub for Pierce is that the alleged lack of bargaining power only affects students who are admitted. It is entirely irrelevant to Pierce, who has never been admitted to medical school and thus has never been in the position to bargain over financial aid.

The Court need not reach Defendants' argument that dismissal is independently required because courts should not second guess admissions decisions by academic institutions.

 

[Goro]

He has a habit of suing medical schools.
Diverse Docket: Title IX Suit Against Stony Brook Moves Forward
PIERCE v. REGENTS OF UNIV | No. B262545. | 20160309038 | Leagle.com
Samuel Pierce v. Rona Woldenberg, No. 2:2011cv04248 - Document 51 (E.D.N.Y. 2012)


He has been trying a variety of combinations of suits with different approaches of discrimination. Not successful in any way so far.

Even with 40 mcat seems like he lacks insight.

And SDNers wonder at times how someone with a 99th%ile MCAT score could be rejected!

it gets even better (emphasis mine):

The operative pleading alleged Pierce had graduated from the University of Pennsylvania with a 3.52 grade point average. It further alleged Pierce had received the highest possible score on the science sections of the "Medical College Admission Test" (MCAT), and that his composite MCAT score placed him in the top 99.8 percentile of all test takers. According to Pierce's pleading, these "objective" factors demonstrated there was no reasonable basis to conclude he was any less qualified than other students who had been accepted into the school.

You don't get into Yale and UCLA with a 3.52 GPA, especially if you're a dick head. I'm amawzed Yale granted him an interview. It was probably a courtesy one.

 

[Med Ed]

Even with 40 mcat seems like he lacks insight.

I would now like this thread to stand as the epitaph for every argument that medical school admissions should be driven solely by metrics.

 

[libertyyne]

I love these lines from the ruling:

The Sherman Act was certainly not intended to provide a forum wherein disgruntled applicants to medical school could challenge their rejections.

...the rub for Pierce is that the alleged lack of bargaining power only affects students who are admitted. It is entirely irrelevant to Pierce, who has never been admitted to medical school and thus has never been in the position to bargain over financial aid.

The Court need not reach Defendants' argument that dismissal is independently required because courts should not second guess admissions decisions by academic institutions.

that is a fantastic legal burn.

 

[deleted804295]

I would now like this thread to stand as the epitaph for every argument that medical school admissions should be driven solely by metrics.

Bro/Sis. Where did I say this???????

I don't even know the pre-2015 MCAT scale.

Edit: Think you meant to quote @libertyyne

 

[PreMedStudent55555]

I hate to be that guy but as someone who is applying next cycle can someone explain this situation in much simpler terms. I'm mostly confused on why this would be a bad thing for medical schools and applicants. If a medical school does not know if you have multiple acceptances, won't they then not discriminate against you just because you have multiple acceptances. How does this affect waitlist movement? Don't all students have to choose by April 30, so won't medical schools know how many spots need to be filled up and can just add of the waitlist accordingly?

Sorry if I sound stupid. I just came back from a very long day and am sleep deprived so I don't understand this change very well.

 

[ThrowawayShmoaway]

I hate to be that guy but as someone who is applying next cycle can someone explain this situation in much simpler terms. I'm mostly confused on why this would be a bad thing for medical schools and applicants. If a medical school does not know if you have multiple acceptances, won't they then not discriminate against you just because you have multiple acceptances. How does this affect waitlist movement? Don't all students have to choose by April 30, so won't medical schools know how many spots need to be filled up and can just add of the waitlist accordingly?

Sorry if I sound stupid. I just came back from a very long day and am sleep deprived so I don't understand this change very well.

This would be a good place for you to start

 

[Med Ed]

I hate to be that guy but as someone who is applying next cycle can someone explain this situation in much simpler terms. I'm mostly confused on why this would be a bad thing for medical schools and applicants. If a medical school does not know if you have multiple acceptances, won't they then not discriminate against you just because you have multiple acceptances. How does this affect waitlist movement? Don't all students have to choose by April 30, so won't medical schools know how many spots need to be filled up and can just add of the waitlist accordingly?

Sorry if I sound stupid. I just came back from a very long day and am sleep deprived so I don't understand this change very well.

The multiple acceptance report (MAR) and national acceptance report (NAR) weren't really tools for "discriminating" against those with multiple acceptances (whatever that means). Rather, they had two basic purposes:

1. Let schools make reasonable estimates of how far into their waitlists they were going to go, which enabled them to not over- or under-extend offers
2. Verify that applicants with multiple acceptances had dropped all but one by the date prescribed by the AAMC traffic rules

You have to understand that by the time the MAR came out each spring, schools had given out most of their offers. The MAR allowed us to plan a reasonable end-game for each cycle. The concern from the student side was that a school you wanted to attend might skip over you if it learned that you had other acceptances. However, it doesn't hold much sense to make the entire system demonstrably worse for the vast majority in order to give a small number of people more choices.

The AAMC's new solution is rather clever, assuming it works.

 

[PreMedStudent55555]

The multiple acceptance report (MAR) and national acceptance report (NAR) weren't really tools for "discriminating" against those with multiple acceptances (whatever that means). Rather, they had two basic purposes:

1. Let schools make reasonable estimates of how far into their waitlists they were going to go, which enabled them to not over- or under-extend offers
2. Verify that applicants with multiple acceptances had dropped all but one by the date prescribed by the AAMC traffic rules

You have to understand that by the time the MAR came out each spring, schools had given out most of their offers. The MAR allowed us to plan a reasonable end-game for each cycle. The concern from the student side was that a school you wanted to attend might skip over you if it learned that you had other acceptances. However, it doesn't hold much sense to make the entire system demonstrably worse for the vast majority in order to give a small number of people more choices.

The AAMC's new solution is rather clever, assuming it works.

Wait so, are you saying that the MAR helped schools because it allowed schools to see how many other acceptances students had which gave them a sense of how many students will withdraw their acceptances?

 

[Med Ed]

Wait so, are you saying that the MAR helped schools because it allowed schools to see how many other acceptances students had which gave them a sense of how many students will withdraw their acceptances?

Yes.

 

[Goro]

Bro/Sis. Where did I say this???????

I don't even know the pre-2015 MCAT scale.

Edit: Think you meant to quote @libertyyne

The wise Med Ed is making his comment as a rhetorical one, not to any specific person. Every year we see tons of posts from ignorant pre-meds who think that admissions should be driven by stats only.