The aacp is full of geniuses

[RxMTM]

2011
1. Roosevelt University (Chicago, IL)
2. Rosalind Franklin University (North Chicago, IL)
3. University of Kansas Wichita (Wichita, KS) [Unclear if this is satellite or stand-alone school]
4. University of South Florida (Tampa, FL)
5. Western New England College (Springfield, MA)

2012
1. Central California School of Pharmacy (Fresno, CA)
2. Cedarville University (Cedarville, OH)
3. Fairleigh Dickinson University (Madison, NJ)
4. Manchester College (Ft. Wayne, IN)
5. Marshall University (Huntington, WV)

source:297point1

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[RxMTM]

 

[Sparda29]

I can understand Fairleigh Dickinson, I think Rutgers is the only pharmacy school in Jersey.

 

[coffee4drug]

Seriously, we need to find out where those geniuses live and send them individualized thank-you cards for leading our profession to prosperity.

 

[thedrunkenpharm]

UNC-Chapel Hill is adding a satellite campus at UNC-Asheville. Incoming class of 2011 is increased by ~20-25 seats. Future plans see up to 40 seats, raising incoming classes from ~152 students to ~192.

Not to mention Wingate is also planning their own satellite at Western Carolina with maybe an enrollment of 70 students.

*sigh*

 

[socalpharm86]

Go Chicago! 5 schools to serve the city's shortage.

 

[Filler]

I can understand Fairleigh Dickinson, I think Rutgers is the only pharmacy school in Jersey.

Yup, and Jersey is ALREADY saturated so what will this school bring to the table? Besides, a large number of New Jersey residing students go to pharmacy schools that border the state including USP, Temple, Jeff, Wilkes, St. John's, LIU....its as if we already have a second school of pharmacy.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

What does this have to do with the American College of Clinical Pharmacy?

 

[Electrode]

What does this have to do with the American College of Clinical Pharmacy?

Check the title again - AACP not ACCP

 

[MountainPharmD]

The University of Kansas scrapped plans to open a satellite campus in Wichita 2 years ago. They did however build a nice new Pharmacy building and expanded the class size from 100 to 150. If you go west of I-35 in Kansas there is still aneed for Pharmacists. The problem is you have to live west of I-35.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Check the title again - AACP not ACCP

Yikes! Shouldn't read SDN without my glasses in the early AM!!

Still, it's not AACP that accredits colleges of pharmacy, so the acronym is still incorrect.

 

[gmuskie]

Manchester makes sense for the area...but not really that school doing it. I'm sure their tuition will be absurd. And with a branch of IU Medical School in town, its really odd they are just taking up a floor of an office building. There's alot of rural areas around there that are still considered medically underserved and the pharmacists I know from the area still have alot of options to move around with jobs.

I'm wondering how Cedarville will function with Ohio Northern and Findlay being in the same city. Cincinnati does alot of rotations in the Dayton area also.

 

[bacillus1]

Yikes! Shouldn't read SDN without my glasses in the early AM!!

Still, it's not AACP that accredits colleges of pharmacy, so the acronym is still incorrect.

The ACPE really can't do anything unless the school doesn't meet their standards. Doing otherwise would bring about a conflict of interest and get ACPE sued.

AACP could maybe push a little bit on colleges not to open pharmacy schools by providing them info that the shortage is over. I don't know if the colleges would do anything with such information...If they didn't, and it came to light that they didn't, I suppose bad publicity could be generated.

I want to know how medical schools are restricted. Someone said AMA, but then someone else corrected them. I want to know really why there aren't hundreds of med schools opening up. Can someone accurately answer this questions? If so, that's where our solution lies.

 

[awval999]

I want to know how medical schools are restricted. Someone said AMA, but then someone else corrected them. I want to know really why there aren't hundreds of med schools opening up. Can someone accurately answer this questions? If so, that's where our solution lies.

.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

The ACPE really can't do anything unless the school doesn't meet their standards. Doing otherwise would bring about a conflict of interest and get ACPE sued.

AACP could maybe push a little bit on colleges not to open pharmacy schools by providing them info that the shortage is over. I don't know if the colleges would do anything with such information...If they didn't, and it came to light that they didn't, I suppose bad publicity could be generated.

I want to know how medical schools are restricted. Someone said AMA, but then someone else corrected them. I want to know really why there aren't hundreds of med schools opening up. Can someone accurately answer this questions? If so, that's where our solution lies.

The ACPE issue has been discussed exhaustively on here and the consensus is that they don't have any power to prevent schools from opening. I don't think AACP can do anything either. They have no sway over schools, particularly those who aren't even members (schools without COPs who might be thinking of opening one). AACP is not going to do a "negative publicity" campaign either because it would reflect poorly on the profession as a whole and the general public wouldn't understand anyway.

I don't think medical schools are restricted. A number of new medical schools have opened in the last decade. The rate limiting step for medical schools is the COST of opening a school (same for dental) and logistics of scheduling 2 years of clinical rotations that comply with standards for medical education. There is more equipment and lab stuff needed to open a medical school and it's pricey. That's just my theory.

 

[confettiflyer]

I should just keep my posts in a Word document and copy/paste them.

Actually better yet, I challenge the OP or any other SDN member to put these concepts together:

1) Department of Education recognized accrediting body
2) Sherman Antitrust Act (15 U.S.C. § 1)
3) ACPE

 

[owlegrad]

I should just keep my posts in a Word document and copy/paste them.

Actually better yet, I challenge the OP or any other SDN member to put these concepts together:

1) Department of Education recognized accrediting body
2) Sherman Antitrust Act (15 U.S.C. § 1)
3) ACPE

So true.

 

[PharmD RPh]

I should just keep my posts in a Word document and copy/paste them.

Actually better yet, I challenge the OP or any other SDN member to put these concepts together:

1) Department of Education recognized accrediting body
2) Sherman Antitrust Act (15 U.S.C. § 1)
3) ACPE

Lol. Maybe we will see a #4 when 50,000 pharmacy students are defaulting on over 100k in student loans in the next 4 years. That will turn legislators eyes. Congressional committee are already working on this mainly stemming from shady for-profit programs that charge exuberant tuitions for a worthless degree. Pharmacy is making more and more of a push into that direction.

 

[confettiflyer]

Lol. Maybe we will see a #4 when 50,000 pharmacy students are defaulting on over 100k in student loans in the next 4 years. That will turn legislators eyes. Congressional committee are already working on this mainly stemming from shady for-profit programs that charge exuberant tuitions for a worthless degree. Pharmacy is making more and more of a push into that direction.

Right but you don't grant ATI to ACPE for a primarily banking/financial issue....you'd send those defaulted loans to a separate entity like the RTC in the 90's.

EDIT: actually no nevermind, since the defaulted products are already gov't owned/backed there's no need to transfer the asset.

 

[PharmD RPh]

I should just keep my posts in a Word document and copy/paste them.

Actually better yet, I challenge the OP or any other SDN member to put these concepts together:

1) Department of Education recognized accrediting body
2) Sherman Antitrust Act (15 U.S.C. § 1)
3) ACPE

We also seem to sit back and take new schools opening like a little you know what. Where is apha and state organizations and why are they not raising awareness that this is bad for the profession and students that want to attend these programs?

 

[confettiflyer]

We also seem to sit back and take new schools opening like a little you know what. Where is apha and state organizations and why are they not raising awareness that this is bad for the profession and students that want to attend these programs?

follow the money, why is an increasing pool of pharmacists bad? BOP's would get more revenue from licensing fees and so would organizations via subscription fees.

It's like a private rescue company that gets paid per head telling people to not get on a sinking ship.

 

[PharmD RPh]

Article published in aacp journal:

http://www.ajpe.org/view.asp?art=aj7410185&pdf=yes

 

[PharmD RPh]

follow the money, why is an increasing pool of pharmacists bad? BOP's would get more revenue from licensing fees and so would organizations via subscription fees.

It's like a private rescue company that gets paid per head telling people to not get on a sinking ship.

I guess I just assumed these were responsible organizations that look out for the good of the profession as stated in their mission's statement.

 

[297point1]

OP- Could you do me a favor, please?
Next time you want to cite one of my old posts, could you at least put a date in there?

That list is already outdated...

 

[confettiflyer]

I guess I just assumed these were responsible organizations that look out for the good of the profession as stated in their mission's statement.

Arguments can be made that an expanded profession solidifies our position in healthcare more so than a shortage. We've seen what shortages can do to a profession (ie anesthesia, primary care). Decreased salaries and scarce positions in coastal areas may be preferable to mid-levels/other staff taking on pharmacy-related tasks.

Better yet, pharmacists have already proven the ability to decrease cost in a health system. Cheaper labor can expand hiring and roles/niches that may otherwise have gone unfilled during a shortage.

Percolating into the bowels of a health system is more effective than tackling a problem whose solution is a violation of a federal statute that's been around for over a 100 years.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

No pharmacy organization is going to organize ANY kind of negative publicity campaign. It's just not their role. They will publish articles, editorials, etc. But there will not be any organized campaigns that single any person, organization or group of schools out.

Why? Well, any kind of "Don't become a pharmacist, the job market sucks!" campaign would be off message in terms of mission (advocating for the profession both internally and externally).

And how about "There are too many schools, the sucky ones should close!"? Would that work? No, sounds like a great way to get sued though. Not to mention alienate your dues paying member schools and their donation giving alumni.

Could we go with "New schools are DIPLOMA MILLS ZOMG!"? Again, lawsuit territory. Plus, the public will not understand and it will reflect negatively on the profession as a whole. Not gonna happen.

Remember, our professional organizations are BUSINESSES. They must be self perpetuating and self sustaining. More members = $$$. You don't stay in business by alienating your members or the public. You alienate people by taking publicly negative or controversial stances. People who think otherwise are naive, at best.

 

[bacillus1]

No pharmacy organization is going to organize ANY kind of negative publicity campaign. It's just not their role. They will publish articles, editorials, etc. But there will not be any organized campaigns that single any person, organization or group of schools out.

Why? Well, any kind of "Don't become a pharmacist, the job market sucks!" campaign would be off message in terms of mission (advocating for the profession both internally and externally).

And how about "There are too many schools, the sucky ones should close!"? Would that work? No, sounds like a great way to get sued though. Not to mention alienate your dues paying member schools and their donation giving alumni.

Could we go with "New schools are DIPLOMA MILLS ZOMG!"? Again, lawsuit territory. Plus, the public will not understand and it will reflect negatively on the profession as a whole. Not gonna happen.

Remember, our professional organizations are BUSINESSES. They must be self perpetuating and self sustaining. More members = $$$. You don't stay in business by alienating your members or the public. You alienate people by taking publicly negative or controversial stances. People who think otherwise are naive, at best.

I agree with every point. So how do we save our profession? Don't want it to turn out like comp sci did in the 90s.

 

[RxMTM]

Does anyone know of any statistical articles that show the supply and demand of graduating pharmacists focusing on growth of the pharmaceutical industry and/or retirement rate of current pharmacists?

 

[RxMTM]

http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/healthworkforce/pharmacy/

 

[Electrode]

http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/healthworkforce/pharmacy/

If that article is somewhat accurate, then all those "doom-&-gloom" posts about the future of the pharmacy profession are overrated. Makes more sense when some say the current downturn of economy is mainly to be blamed.

 

[KARM12]

Go Chicago! 5 schools to serve the city's shortage.

Yeah tell that to my soon to be unemployed P4 students.

Chicago market=crap

 

[genesis09]

Yeah tell that to my soon to be unemployed P4 students.

Chicago market=crap

You can even tell them the Milwaukee market is full. From what I hear, Rockford, Green Bay, and Quad Cities are still open.

 

[Lubeckd]

new school in pharmcas
http://www.southcollegetn.edu/
http://www.pharmcas.org/collegesschools/schoolsouthuniversitypage.htm

"PharmCAS is pleased to announce the addition of one new school, South College School of Pharmacy, to our application service. As an applicant, you will now have the ability to apply to South College School of Pharmacy by logging into your application and going to the "Pharmacy Designations" section. Their application deadline is March 1, 2011. To learn more about the school and all requirements, please visit their school page in our Directory.

http://www.pharmcas.org/applicants/thedirectory.htm

Sincerely,
PharmCAS Staff


P.S.- Please do not respond to this automated email."

 

[Naidim]

If that article is somewhat accurate, then all those "doom-&-gloom" posts about the future of the pharmacy profession are overrated. Makes more sense when some say the current downturn of economy is mainly to be blamed.

Did we read the same article? "The total active pharmacist supply is projected to grow from 226,000 in 2004 (the base year for the projection model) to 305,000 by 2020 and 368,000 by 2030" and "Changing population demographics are expected to increase demand to 256,000 pharmacists by 2020 and 295,000 by 2030..."

2020 supply 305,000 - demand 256,000 = 49,000 out of work
2030 supply 368,000 - demand 295,000 = 73,000 out of work

The APhA should follow the lead of the AMA of old.

Create a "Council for Pharmacy Education" and start rating pharmacy schools.

Or maybe we Pharmacists and student Pharmacists should create it...

 

[dingerx]

You can even tell them the Milwaukee market is full. From what I hear, Rockford, Green Bay, and Quad Cities are still open.

Rockford and the Quad Cities are definitely not open markets. I'm not sure about Green Bay. The Midwest is becoming saturated just like the rest of the country. These crack pot schools need to be shut down and not accredited in the first place.

 

[VeraShield]

Did we read the same article? "The total active pharmacist supply is projected to grow from 226,000 in 2004 (the base year for the projection model) to 305,000 by 2020 and 368,000 by 2030" and "Changing population demographics are expected to increase demand to 256,000 pharmacists by 2020 and 295,000 by 2030..."

2020 supply 305,000 - demand 256,000 = 49,000 out of work
2030 supply 368,000 - demand 295,000 = 73,000 out of work

The APhA should follow the lead of the AMA of old.

Create a "Council for Pharmacy Education" and start rating pharmacy schools.

Or maybe we Pharmacists and student Pharmacists should create it...

Well, from the article, they project that there will be 305,000 - 368,000 pharmacists supply, equivalent to 260,000 - 319,000 full-time pharmacists (due to part-timers) from 2020 - 2030. Which as you note is above the projected demand based on no increase in per capita consumption.

However, based on on the projected increase in per capita consumption of pharmaceuticals, demand outstrips supply (with demand now adjusted to 289,000 by 2020 and 357,000 by 2030). No guarantee of course, and is dependent on an increase in per capita consumption.