The Bitter Truth of our "Understaffed" Field

[pathres9999]

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What I am about to say will likely get a negative response; but it is expected when the uncomfortable truth is laid bare. We currently have a continued oversupply of pathologists, evidenced by market trends, political decisions regarding reimbursement, adoption of new workarounds (push for nursing to handle moderate complexity, automation, ai, hospital consiladation, telepathology, etc). This may be obvious to some but when the leadership constantly puts out statements and cries of understaffing and other woes, one can be forgiven for losing sight of what's in front of you.

Some basic questions to think about:
Where is the actual hard data about staffing ratios, salary trajectories, hiring practices, and average caseload?
Why is pathologyoutlines of all things being used as a basis of claims?
Is it a shortage of staff or a lack of drive to adopt to new technology to offset unneeded labor (ie recent darkreport discussing ai and automation in the lab)?
Where is the genuine outcry from the pathology community? Shouldnt there be more consistent discussion and movement to change?

To the congressmen and/or other political figures reading the gist is you'd be doing a favor cutting funding for pathology. I promise that if you continue cutting spending the pathology field will not only be able to handle it, but do it with a sheepish smile.

To med students, you are already smart enough to stay away so I have nothing to add.

 

[KeratinPearls]

What I am about to say will likely get a negative response; but it is expected when the uncomfortable truth is laid bare. We currently have a continued oversupply of pathologists, evidenced by market trends, political decisions regarding reimbursement, adoption of new workarounds (push for nursing to handle moderate complexity, automation, ai, hospital consiladation, telepathology, etc). This may be obvious to some but when the leadership constantly puts out statements and cries of understaffing and other woes, one can be forgiven for losing sight of what's in front of you.

Some basic questions to think about:
Where is the actual hard data about staffing ratios, salary trajectories, hiring practices, and average caseload?
Why is pathologyoutlines of all things being used as a basis of claims?
Is it a shortage of staff or a lack of drive to adopt to new technology to offset unneeded labor (ie recent darkreport discussing ai and automation in the lab)?
Where is the genuine outcry from the pathology community? Shouldnt there be more consistent discussion and movement to change?

To the congressmen and/or other political figures reading the gist is you'd be doing a favor cutting funding for pathology. I promise that if you continue cutting spending the pathology field will not only be able to handle it, but did it with a sheepish smile.

To med students, you are already smart enough to stay away so I have nothing to add.

Things are better now than before Covid but that’s not saying much since the job market was hot garbage in the past.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

We have too much waste in health care so no one really knows what the true job market is. Some of us were hoping the "shortage" would be impetus to address the waste.

 

[pathslides]

You obviously have a 🗑️ job or are in academics.

Path is the greatest lifestyle job in all of medicine.

 

[MetroPath]

You obviously have a 🗑️ job or are in academics.

Path is the greatest lifestyle job in all of medicine.

True. I got a lifestyle job. Sign out 10-20 cases daily. Literally no stress. Super chill. No weekends, no tumor boards, no autopsies. Everyone at my job seems happy. Everyone is on their phones because we aren’t that busy. I get 2 weeks vacation and 2 weeks of CME. A 401K as well.

I think I have one of the best lifestyle jobs in pathology (even better than the VA) but with lower pay.

I’m one of those pathologists that prob bill/generate less revenue than I actually get paid.

However, I feel like I’m losing my path skills due to the lack of volume.

I get paid peanuts compared to other fields and other pathologists (low 200s) though but for the amount of work I do I get paid well I guess. I work for a corporate entity. I will get no raise in salary because of our low volume. I’ve been here for a few years.

I am happy though. I get to choose where I want to live. Not every pathologist is as lucky though. There are very limited jobs near where I live due to the multiple training programs. I’ve heard of only one job in my city via word of mouth. Another one 2 hours out. That’s it.

There’s always a trade off. Do you think I have a 🔥job or a 🗑️ job? You tell me. I feel like I have a GREAT lifestyle job in a location of my choice but the trade off is… you guessed it lower pay.

It was the only job I could find when I applied a few years ago. Currently working in a city saturated with pathologists.

I’ve taken on a side hustle to make more money. So there are some to many days I work 12 hours a day and a few hours on the weekends. I’m not complaining though. I actually am grateful for my main job because it’s close to home and considering I live in a tight job market, I got A job. I am also grateful for my side hustle because not every city has this particular opportunity.

It’s kinda sad to say that but that’s the reality in Pathology. You got to take what you can get and there are no abundance of job opportunities and no, I don’t want to move to boofoo land. Screw that. I don’t want to be miserable for higher pay. Life is too short to be miserable.

You must be one of the lucky ones then to have a great lifestyle job and I’m thinking great pay in a location of your choice. Not everyone is so lucky in pathology. When you say GREAT lifestyle, that really doesn’t mean much as that GREAT lifestyle may be coupled with low pay.

I mean VA Pathologists have a GREAT lifestyle but their pay is not all that GREAT.

 

[pathslides]

If you are happy, the job is not 🗑️.
OP clearly is not happy.

 

[Med Director New England]

True. I got a lifestyle job. Sign out 10-20 cases daily. Literally no stress. Super chill. No weekends, no tumor boards, no autopsies. Everyone at my job seems happy. Everyone is on their phones because we aren’t that busy. I get 2 weeks vacation and 2 weeks of CME. A 401K as well.

I think I have one of the best lifestyle jobs in pathology (even better than the VA) but with lower pay.

I’m one of those pathologists that prob bill/generate less revenue than I actually get paid.

However, I feel like I’m losing my path skills due to the lack of volume.

I get paid peanuts compared to other fields and other pathologists (low 200s) though but for the amount of work I do I get paid well I guess. I work for a corporate entity. I will get no raise in salary because of our low volume. I’ve been here for a few years.

I am happy though. I get to choose where I want to live. Not every pathologist is as lucky though. There are very limited jobs near where I live due to the multiple training programs. I’ve heard of only one job in my city via word of mouth. Another one 2 hours out. That’s it.

There’s always a trade off. Do you think I have a 🔥job or a 🗑️ job? You tell me. I feel like I have a GREAT lifestyle job in a location of my choice but the trade off is… you guessed it lower pay.

It was the only job I could find when I applied a few years ago. Currently working in a city saturated with pathologists.

I’ve taken on a side hustle to make more money. So there are some to many days I work 12 hours a day and a few hours on the weekends. I’m not complaining though. I actually am grateful for my main job because it’s close to home and considering I live in a tight job market, I got A job. I am also grateful for my side hustle because not every city has this particular opportunity.

It’s kinda sad to say that but that’s the reality in Pathology. You got to take what you can get and there are no abundance of job opportunities and no, I don’t want to move to boofoo land. Screw that. I don’t want to be miserable for higher pay. Life is too short to be miserable.

You must be one of the lucky ones then to have a great lifestyle job and I’m thinking great pay in a location of your choice. Not everyone is so lucky in pathology. When you say GREAT lifestyle, that really doesn’t mean much as that GREAT lifestyle may be coupled with low pay.

I mean VA Pathologists have a GREAT lifestyle but their pay is not all that GREAT.

Does sound like a great lifestyle

Just out of curiosity- Do you ever worry your primary job (10-20 cases / day) is sustainable ? Esp with academia nearby who could eat up your cases and their staff wouldn’t even notice the difference in volume spread out over multiple sub-specialties.

 

[MetroPath]

Does sound like a great lifestyle

Just out of curiosity- Do you ever worry your primary job (10-20 cases / day) is sustainable ? Esp with academia nearby who could eat up your cases and their staff wouldn’t even notice the difference in volume spread out over multiple sub-specialties.

No I’m not worried for now. Not sure in 5 years though.

We have outpatient offices as our clients. We get cases from different states across the US. Academia has better things to do than to cherry pick a few outpatient offices that send us few cases everyday.

 

[shikimate]

I don't know about others but a young grad probably wouldn't mind hustle a bit for more $, whereas someone a decade out might want a more "cush" job. The problem is opportunities to better your situation, pathology is not like FM or IM or even psych where you can hustle and make more, or at least not in most jobs I've known of in Canada. If I get an overnight 50% premium I wouldn't mind looking at slides from 11pm-6am lol. Maybe the US is different.

 

[octopusprime]

I would be bored out of my mind signing out 10-20 cases a day. "lifestyle" is one thing, but "boredom" is another. What can one do with all that spare time other than think of ways to make more money? You only get 2-4 week of vaca/CME, so you're at work or do you leave early like every day? If not what do you do, read books? Research travel you can't afford to take (financially or timewise)?

This is the wool corporate labs have pulled over peoples' eyes--PP jobs still, and obviously more so in the past, should pay double that with 8+ weeks vaca...maybe you have to do an autopsy or two, maybe some tumor boards, maybe some call...but it's not that bad. I just can't fathom calling 10-20 cases/day with 2 weeks vaca and pay in the low 200s a "great lifestyle"....maybe compared to academic pediatricians, most PAs and nurse practitioners, and most two income white collar households, but those are apples to oranges comparisons.

 

[MetroPath]

I have to be at work until 5 pm. I sit around surfing my phone pretty much. I’m actually not bored as I don’t need to be busy. Im a pretty chill dude.

Yeah my point was that I have a low stress job but with low pay. It was in response to pathslides comment that “pathology has the greatest lifestyle in all of medicine.” Pathology can have a great lifestyle as in good hours, low workload but I get paid less than most pathologists (although I get paid well considering the amount of work I do) and other docs. So would you really consider that a great lifestyle?

By lifestyle, do you mean low stress? Good hours? By that definition, I have a great lifestyle. Or do you define great lifestyle as “Good hours, low stress and high pay”? If so, then I don’t have a as great of a lifestyle.

If you include high pay in the definition of a “great lifestyle” then I don’t consider my job as a great lifestyle. I know some doctors doing much better in terms of pay (>500k) and work 8-5 pm like me.

Like I said, I have a side hustle which makes me good money and puts me at a higher salary but I work hard for it. My main gig and side gig however are relatively low stress.

 

[MetroPath]

I would be bored out of my mind signing out 10-20 cases a day. "lifestyle" is one thing, but "boredom" is another. What can one do with all that spare time other than think of ways to make more money? You only get 2-4 week of vaca/CME, so you're at work or do you leave early like every day? If not what do you do, read books? Research travel you can't afford to take (financially or timewise)?

This is the wool corporate labs have pulled over peoples' eyes--PP jobs still, and obviously more so in the past, should pay double that with 8+ weeks vaca...maybe you have to do an autopsy or two, maybe some tumor boards, maybe some call...but it's not that bad. I just can't fathom calling 10-20 cases/day with 2 weeks vaca and pay in the low 200s a "great lifestyle"....maybe compared to academic pediatricians, most PAs and nurse practitioners, and most two income white collar households, but those are apples to oranges comparisons.

Like I said pp jobs like you mentioned are not easy to find in my area. Jobs are via word of mouth. I live near a large city so this job is literally it for now until I get word of something better (which I wouldn’t mind the work), but then again you got to know people who know of job openings.

This job is good for now but I’m keeping my eyes open for a good hospital based job like you mentioned.

 

[pathres9999]

If you are happy, the job is not 🗑️.
OP clearly is not happy.

I think maybe you and metropath have missed my main point because you are in fact supporting it. I am not saying "lifestyle" jobs aren't to be had, but that there is an oversupply of pathologists. I know people conflate negativity with someone that has a chip on their shoulder, but it seems to me to be a classic deflection (or strawman if you prefer) to try to suggest that because I have something negative to say about the field that I must have some ulterior reason for grandstanding.

Believe it or not, I am not saying these things to be punitive, but for others to find their voice and to be reassured that they aren't the only ones that see the inefficiencies and deficits of pathology as a whole.

 

[pathres9999]

I have to be at work until 5 pm. I sit around surfing my phone pretty much. I’m actually not bored as I don’t need to be busy. Im a pretty chill dude.

Yeah my point was that I have a low stress job but with low pay. It was in response to pathslides comment that “pathology has the greatest lifestyle in all of medicine.” Pathology can have a great lifestyle as in good hours, low workload but I get paid less than most pathologists (although I get paid well considering the amount of work I do) and other docs. So would you really consider that a great lifestyle?

By lifestyle, do you mean low stress? Good hours? By that definition, I have a great lifestyle. Or do you define great lifestyle as “Good hours, low stress and high pay”? If so, then I don’t have a as great of a lifestyle.

If you include high pay in the definition of a “great lifestyle” then I don’t consider my job as a great lifestyle. I know some doctors doing much better in terms of pay (>500k) and work 8-5 pm like me.

Like I said, I have a side hustle which makes me good money and puts me at a higher salary but I work hard for it. My main gig and side gig however are relatively low stress.

That is certainly envious and I would consider that a good lifestyle relative to other pathologists (provided one could handle the low work volume). I feel like many VA pathologists have similar types of situations based on my collective experience.

 

[MetroPath]

That is certainly envious and I would consider that a good lifestyle relative to other pathologists (provided one could handle the low work volume). I feel like many VA pathologists have similar types of situations based on my collective experience.

There’s no abundance of jobs I can assure you that (at least near my city).

 

[Med Director New England]

From Cap today
Surprised the CAP published this letter (Dr.Dehner’s)

Letters - CAP TODAY

January 2023—The CAP president’s column, “The visible pathologist” (CAP TODAY, November 2022), struck a chord that has been reverberating through our specialty for many years when a medical student who expressed an interest in pathology was asked, “Why don’t you want to be a real doctor?” You...

www.captodayonline.com

 

[sirspamalot]

Scopio says "all you jobs belong to us"

Oof..

 

[pathres9999]

From Cap today
Surprised the CAP published this letter (Dr.Dehner’s)

Letters - CAP TODAY

January 2023—The CAP president’s column, “The visible pathologist” (CAP TODAY, November 2022), struck a chord that has been reverberating through our specialty for many years when a medical student who expressed an interest in pathology was asked, “Why don’t you want to be a real doctor?” You...

www.captodayonline.com

I am not that surprised. It is flowery language that is more about posturing than action. I think that suits CAP just fine.