The California Medical Schools!

I might as well post the MSAR 2001-2002 statistics for you to give you an idea of how CA schools match with out of state applicants.

I'll give the ratio of out of state applicants accepted/out of state applicants applied and I will give the total class size.

UCD - 0/1058, 93
UCI - 0/390, 92
UCLA - 25/2083, 121
UCSD - 3/1309, 122
UCSF - 36/2473, 141
Stanford - 45/4102, 86

USC did not provide data so I can't help you out on that one. Jalby would be a good person to contact about USC.

UCLA and UCSF do consider out of state applicants, but these applicants usually have incredible numbers. In state applicants have an easier time getting through the initial screen to determine whether or not a secondary will be granted. Stanford states that do not take residency into consideration when making admission decisions. You can see that more than half of Stanford's class was from out of state.

good luck.

 

USC is a private school and thus does not consider residency. However, please realize that EVERYONE wants to go to a CA school...they are all very hard to get into. To simplify those numbers above, Davis and Irvine do not take out of state people. The rest of the schools do although SD takes only a very, very small amount. The above poster forgot Loma Linda, which is just as well unless you are a Seventh Day Adventist, or at least an uber-Christian of another stripe. Loma Linda does not, however, consider residency while they are considering religious activity.

 

does anyone know if out of state people going to CA schools switch to "in state" resident (meaning in state tuition) after their 1st year. or are you locked in as an out of stater during your 4 years in school. thanks

 

You do NOT switch to in-state tuition while attending school. You must work in California for a full year and not attend any school full time to get in-state tuition. I've never understood the point of giving people in-state tuition as quickly as some states do...

 

just thought i'd post this as an encouragement to all those non-CA people who want to go to CA schools.

i'm a NJ resident wanting to go to CA..

although obviously i haven't gotten in anywhere yet, i've gotten secondaries from UCLA and Stanford. (haven't heard from UCSF)

and my #'s are VERY average!
3.6 and 30 (V-9, P-11, B-10, W-O)
it might help that i went to MIT but probably not a whole lot.

I was very surprised to get both of those secondaries.
so keep your hopes up!
=)
now.. if i can just get myself to write the UCLA essays... NINE essays!UCLA sucks! =P

eunice

 

Actually, that probably ought to count against you ....

 

hey.. now.. MIT is a great school!

it just has an ugly campus..
which got real ugly during my last year b/c they decided to do 10 billion constructions.. so if i go visit later, it'll probably be much prettier..

Gosh.. i really want to go to CA... i hope USC takes me! hee hee..
eunice

 

10 billion constructions? But how will those imaginative folks come up with 10 billion new names...oh wait...that's right, they just call their buildings by numbers...so now I guess they have building 403, building 404, and the inspiringly named building 406....

So what was your major eunice, a "78"?



I'm sorry, any school that names all buildings and majors by numbers just deserves to be laughed at, good school or not...

good luck with all the apps!

 

Ok, I have a stupid (I hope it really isn't) question. The CA schools seem to be very popular. Why is that? I have not looked at them alot because I would not consider going there, nothing against CA just dont want my kids (6 and 8) to go to public school there and cant afford private school.

Is it the sun and the beach? If only 2 schools in the top 15 are on that side of the country why are they so popular.

I certainly do not mean to offend anyone who went to public school in CA there are just some things that are acceptable there that deviate from my moral norms.

I hope I did not open a can of worms with this one, I just wanted to know what I am missing.

 

ok, I can't resist hearing this - what exactly are you referring to that you think goes on in California public schools that would never occur in Florida? I'm not wanting a flame war, I'm just intrigued...

 

thanks!

 

Yeah, I'm interested in this as well. Too much fun in the sun? The stereotypes of surfer boys and no homework getting done? The liberal-ness of the state?

 

Now of course I only have the stellar reporting of our American journalists to go by but I do not agree with alternative lifestlye education. I do not know how prevalent it is all over the state but coming from the Bible belt I know that the schools here have no part in it. There also seem to be some pretty shady legislators out there (but then again aren't they all) that are quick to act on certain things, i.e isn't that where the whole removal of the pledge of allegiance thing started.

Like I said, this is purely personal preference and I mean no harm or disrespect by it at all.

 

yes, which would be COMPLETELY different from ....err....Miami, Fort Lauderdale, etc!?!? lol

 

Definitely the liberal-ness (nice word) of it. I grew up less than 1/2 mile from the beach (Va. Beach) myself so I know about the beach stereotype.

The point of the question though was what is the appeal of CA medical schools.

 

ok daver, I may not agree with you, but as you answered my question I'll try and answer yours -

I don't know why most people like CA. For me it is partly that I love CA, and specifically SF (ie location as opposed to just school) as a city. It has nothing to do with beaches or the sea, which frankly can get a tad cold in northern CA. I have visited a number of schools during trips to various places. UCSF students seem happy. There was a certain 'vibe' I got when on their campus/in their buildings that energized me. Maybe thats too Whoo-whoo. I can also point to their facilities and reputation in such things as Infectious diseases, which is an area in which I am particularly interested. For me the liberalness of the state is a bonus, not a negative, as I am extremely liberal in my own views, despite currently living in "the Bible Belt".

 

Thank you, and thank you for agreeing to disagree. I have seen quite a few times where agreeing to disagree would have stopped a thread before it got out of hand.

 

Well, if you look at rankings, UC schools kick ass. Also CA is a great place to live -- pretty mild weather all year (varies a lot by region though), good food (very multi-ethnic in urban areas), high standard of living for professionals.

The sun and the beach? There are 30+ million people in CA. Very few visit the beach regularly. Most go to the beach as often as people from the midwest. I mean, I live pretty close to the coast, but it takes an hour to get to a beach (the entire coastline is not sand, you know). Who is going to drive for two hours to get sand in your shoes? And if you want constant sun, live in Arizona. CA does have mostly sunny days in the summer, but it also has a lot of cloudy and rainy days in the winter. That's the nature of our "Mediterranean" climate -- dry summer, wet winters.

CA public schools are probably better than they seem. Yes, they rank low on average compared to other parts of the nation. We also have one of the largest immigrant and non-English and English-as-a-second-language speaking population of students in the nation -- I'm not sure how that influences the test scores. Some cities have outstanding public schools. I know my city does, as does Palo Alto (the city Stanford is located in), which is the next city to the south of mine. Palo Alto's two public high schools are better academically than most private high schools. They both ranked in US News and World Reports top 100 high schools in the nation. The quality of the schools depends on the community -- the wealthier the community, the more money there is for the schools -- just like almost anywhere else in the country. So of course there are some terrible schools in CA. There are poor communities here just like anywhere else.

I really am not sure what you mean by "there are just some things that are acceptable there that deviate from my moral norms." I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to. CA is an enormous state, with a very large population. Making generalizations about CA is like making generalizations about New England, or the South, of the Midwest. Some may be true, but most are gross misstatements. CA has some very, very liberal areas, and some very, very conservative ones. I am not going to say that CA is just like the rest of the US. Like any area, it has its own flavor and feeling. But what is seen on national news or in popular entertainment is not a accurate image of what CA really is. I mean, if I tried to guess what New York is like based on Friends, Will & Grace, and NYPD Blue, I'd have a pretty messed up idea of what New York was like. Similarly, if I tried to guess what Indiana was like based on what I knew about Indiana University and Bobby Knight, I'd also be wrong.

 

The Pledge issue has nothing to do with legislators. That was a judicial matter. And the guy that filed the lawsuit filed it first in FLORIDA, where it was rejected because his daughter was not of school age. He ended up moving to CA and now that his daughter is old enough, he filed the lawsuit again.

 

Diogenes, hope I didnt upset you, certainly wasnt the point. But, I ask you, if someone is not from a certain area of the country and is interested in finding out about that area where is the first place they look? TV news, newspapers, etc... I certainly did not mean that everyone in CA was an outtake of 90210 or Melrose Place just as nobody assumes that everyone in NY is an outtake of Friends or Seinfeld. Of course I realize that CA is a huge state and that there are going to be diversities. I realize and accept that. I have the utmost respect for those who live in CA just as I have the utmost respect for people who live in TX, or CT or anywhere else. Until you prove otherwise you will have my respect and I will treat you "as I would like to be treated" so to say.

Just as some people would not choose to live in FL because of all the damn old people (who contrary to popular belief are not everywhere) I choose not to live in CA.

My question has been answered and so as not to enrage the entire state of CA I will withdraw myself from this thread and move on to offend another state's population.

 

Daver,

To answer your question why CA schools are popular among applicants: Many of its universities and medical schools are ranked in the top 50. The UC system has a lot of their schools up in the rankings. And that's only a public school system, which is quite impressive. The only public school outside of the state of California that I can think of that has such prestige is the University of Michigan. But that is only one school compared to the many UC's in our state. California also has many prestigious schools like UC Berkeley, Stanford, etc. So when people want to move to the west and attend schools they, of course, want the best of the west. And the best of the west in terms of school is located in California. That being said, California has great weather. Just live in California for a few months and you'll understand why. Just don't come in the El Nino year. California is a great melting pot of all ethnicities. I mean where else can you find Little Saigon in one block, Korea Town down the next block and Persia Town the next block after that?

 

i'm glad i'm already in at one california school.

 

It's all about the weather. The summers are mild where ever medical schools are located in CA and the winters lack snow. Now of course the entire state does not fit the stereotypes, but as long as you stay out of the middle and avoid the eastern side, you should be fine in terms of finding enough stereotypical stuff. Fortunately, there aren't any medical schools in those areas!

 

ok yall need to stop tripping and hating on cali b/c the weather in your part of the country sucks for the most part

let's see, i'm in arizona right now (one more week left) and its ummm 100 degrees still by 11pm

in la right now, i heard its about 78 degrees for afternoon high. hmmmmm

there's beaches. there's clubs. there's good cheap food. there's good expensive food. there's skiing, water sports, etc all near enuf to the urban areas. what a great place to spend 4 yrs of ur med school life.

and btw, there r 3 cali schools in the top 16. ucsf, stanford and ucla. ucsd isn't that far off. of course i got a special soft spot for med school #5 in cali

 

daver, I'm not upset at all. I just wanted to show that CA isn't quite like what we see about it on the national news. I mean, for example Marin is a cool place to live even if that American Taliban idiot grew up there -- and there are plenty of patriotic, Christian, non-hippie people living there, but I'll be damned if I could see anything about that on the national news. All you hear about is Marin's supposed ultra-liberal, ultra-indulgent, wacky, fringe lifestyle, which is totally bogus.

Seriously, I don't know much about certain parts of the country, so I am willing to tell anyone whatever they'd like to know about where I live if they have any questions. I certainly couldn't expect one to know everything about this place.

For example, like other people said, the weather is pretty good here. But not every day. And there is tons of variation. The geography of the state lends itself to a lot of different climates.

 

BESIDES the weather and the standard of living and the good schools and anything everyone else has brought up:

CA is a good state to have your medical education because (from what I've heard) when the time comes to apply for residency and fellowship, CA-educated students have enough hours of internship (generally much higher than non-CA schools) to be qualified for schools in every state. The same is not always true vice versa. Likewise, it is much more difficult to be educated elsewhere in the nation and then decide you want to practice in CA not only because CA produces too many doctors all on its own, but also because CA has very stringent requirements regarding out-of-state doctors.

 

Also CA's tort reform laws help keep down malpractice insurance premiums. Of course, those laws may be passed in other states, but they aren't there yet.

 

Its the freakin' liberal democrats that run the schools that are the problem.
I really mean that-and I'm pulling on my flame ******ant suit as soon as I post this!

 

And I want to add that California just seems like the most Godless state in the nation.

 

dumb

 

hahaha so ridiculous!

 

daver, you brought up a good and fair question, and I think Diogenes and Cambrian, among others, have done an excellent job of trying to answer it.

There are certainly some very liberal areas of California, but as Diogenes mentioned, it would be unfair to label the whole state that way. I also have a feeling that some of the news reports you alluded to in your post are some of the more "spectacular" ones, ie, incidents that would even raise eyebrows out in California.

I'm not sure what you meant about "alternative lifestyle education," but I'm basically a product of California public schools all the way up through high school, and I don't remember having any real exposure in the classroom to "alternative lifestyles."

As for why "everyone" wants to go to CA schools -- if you are already a CA resident or plan to become one, it's a ridiculously good deal -- 3 of the public medical schools (UCSF, UCLA, and UCSD) all have excellent national reputations (for what it's worth, all three are in the "top 25" for US News). UC Davis is also consistently considered one of the top primary care schools in the country. So, you have four public medical schools that offer pretty low in-state tuition, that all have stellar reputations, offer good training, etc. I'm not sure any other state can boast that. Then of course there are the private schools like Stanford and USC, which also have great things to offer -- Stanford has amazing research opportunities and a great 5-year plan for med school while USC has amazing clinical training.

Outside of the educational benefits, the climate in California is fairly mild, and most of the larger cities (San Diego, LA, San Francisco, Sacramento) are easy drives to the beach, the mountains, and the desert -- again, not so with many other states around the country. If you are an outdoors person, California is sort of an ideal location for year-round recreation, no matter what your particular interest.

Out of the places I've lived (California, Texas, Oklahoma, Arizona, and New Mexico), California probably has the most "balanced" political views of any of those states, in my opinion. You really do see a huge variety -- there are extremely liberal pockets of the state, and then very conservative pockets. In general, I would describe the political climate as "moderate" -- keep in mind that this is the same state that had Pete Wilson (R) as a 2-term governor, and whose voters passed extremely controversial legislation regarding immigration and affirmative action, in the form of Props 187 and 209. Given, these pieces of legislation have since been tied up in the courts, but the public sentiment was for them.

Like any place, I think California has its share of problems, some of them potentially quite serious. However, I still would really like to return there for residency because I think its one of the most interesting and dynamic locations in which to live and practice medicine in the US.

 

Well, I mean...there does have to be a most Godless state in the nation, if not CA, which?

 

...Avoid the eastern side? Huh?! We've got stereo-types up the wazoo. Come hang out in Tahoe for a winter...see all the crazy shaka-bras/shredders/snowboarder dudes who spend their exsistence smoking big fat bowls and driving around in their trust-fund SUV's...nah, no stereotypes at all !

 

Lilycat,

Thank you for providing such a wonderful description of California. California seems to get most of its reputation by people who have never been there. I would absolutely agree with the idea of California having a 'moderate' stance on most things. Another thing that I enjoy about California (well, atleast San Francisco) is that they banned smoking indoors. How godly to lay down a law like that

Unregistered - The most Godless state thing is hilarious I mean, I know that God will root for football teams if you selfishly pray to him hard enough, but I never knew that he would dwell in one state more than another. I guess God hangs out in some states more than he does in California? I don't know why though, California has some great food, some beautifully warm-hearted people, some of the most majestic trees, gorgeous mountains, and powerful oceans that I have ever seen..You know, when I drove cross country, it was funny. As I would cross state borders I could really feel the presence of God either increase or decrease depending on the border I crossed. And when I crossed the border from Las Vegas, Nevada towards California...the amount of God in California was much less than the amount of God in Nevada.

 

Ah, yes...I do think Nevada deserves the title.

And as for Tahoe...well yeah, there's a beach there, but it's a lake beach. You can get a lake beach in Illinois, hardly worthy of a California stereotype. Half of it is in Nevada anyways. No one's popping up to defend the Cental Valley/Coast?

 

when i visited san diego earlier this summer, i realized i have been living on the wrong coast.
-jot

 

the grass is always greener on the other side.... born and raised in Los Angeles, I have always dreamed of trudging through snow and studying in front of a fireplace on a snowy winter day

 

I notice no ones claiming they want to move here to the midwest!

 

Yeah, and why *does* everybody get so upset about gambling? Honestly, what is the big deal? Sure, it's all commercial and the ding ding ding thing is annoying but it's not like it's a sin against humanity. And even though nothing grows in Nevada and it is just about as hot as Hell itself in the summer doesn't mean God has forsaken us. Check it out, outside of Utah there is practically nowhere in the world you will find more Mormons than Las Vegas. Seriously! It's more of a family type of place than you think - you'd be surprised.

And for most Godless state I vote for the entire Bible Belt

Just kidding, I think.

 

Hmmm...me too...the only time I see snow is during vacation (skiing/snowboarding) so it sounds like fun to me! I wouldn't like to be in the midwest, however

 

GO CALI!!

 

You pretty much need awesome stats to get considered from out of state and even if you do, it's still tough!

 

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