The Case For an M.D.,D.O. Degree

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Which state allow osteopathic physicians use suffix "MD" in place of DO for advertisement, business cards or white coat?
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I find it really hard to deny a DO the right to use the MD title when they have put in every bit if not more effort to obtain a medical degree as a US trained MD, a foreign trained MBBS or BM, or Caribbean graduate.
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DO is a recognized degree in the U.S., while MBBS is not (but shares a more similar philosophy). Why would it be necessary to switch from one U.S. recognized degree (DO) to another (MD) in the U.S.?
 
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baked alaska said:
DO is a recognized degree in the U.S., while MBBS is not (but shares a more similar philosophy). Why would it be necessary to switch from one U.S. recognized degree (DO) to another (MD) in the U.S.?
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It's not. But you have a bunch of insecure pre-meds who couldn't get into an MD school yet always dreamed of having the MD after their name, that were forced to go to a DO school as a backup. Now they come up with every excuse in the book as to why they deserve the MD even though they couldn't get into an MD school.
 
J1515 said:
It's not. But you have a bunch of insecure pre-meds who couldn't get into an MD school yet always dreamed of having the MD after their name, that were forced to go to a DO school as a backup. Now they come up with every excuse in the book as to why they deserve the MD even though they couldn't get into an MD school.
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You have great people skills!
 
baked alaska said:
DO is a recognized degree in the U.S., while MBBS is not (but shares a more similar philosophy). Why would it be necessary to switch from one U.S. recognized degree (DO) to another (MD) in the U.S.?
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The foreign MBBS is recognized in the US, and you can practice with that degree so long as you complete a US residency.
 
tatstyl said:
I think you need to do some more research. Google DO. there is a map that gives you their limitation. MD DO NOT HAVE THESE LIMITATIONS.
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It's hard to find out just exactly how much more or less limited USMDs are internationally. But I'm guessing you know just how much?
 
Everyone in medicine (MD or DO) builds their reputation as they practice...they are some DOs I would rather go to than certain MDs. That said, someone with a DO shouldn't be so concerned with getting an MD or something that sounds like an MD (MDO or whatever) after their name, it makes more sense to just worry about yourself and what you can bring to the practice of medicine...your reputation within a hospital or community will ultimately be much more important.

That also said, I don't think DOs deserve an MD degree, they didn't graduate from an MD school...that's like saying one person who graduates from Harvard college and goes to work at a financial firm and another person gradutates from State U. Both now work at the same place doing the same job...should the State U guy be able to tell his clients he graduated from Harvard? No...just because a DO may do the same stuff as an MD isn't reason to make it seem as if they graduated from an MD school.
 
TXDO said:
Which state allow osteopathic physicians use suffix "MD" in place of DO for advertisement, business cards or white coat?
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None that I am aware of. We need a grass root mvt for this to ever an end.
 
gis2011 said:
Everyone in medicine (MD or DO) builds their reputation as they practice...they are some DOs I would rather go to than certain MDs. That said, someone with a DO shouldn't be so concerned with getting an MD or something that sounds like an MD (MDO or whatever) after their name, it makes more sense to just worry about yourself and what you can bring to the practice of medicine...your reputation within a hospital or community will ultimately be much more important.

That also said, I don't think DOs deserve an MD degree, they didn't graduate from an MD school...that's like saying one person who graduates from Harvard college and goes to work at a financial firm and another person gradutates from State U. Both now work at the same place doing the same job...should the State U guy be able to tell his clients he graduated from Harvard? No...just because a DO may do the same stuff as an MD isn't reason to make it seem as if they graduated from an MD school.
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In essence you're probably right (the first paragraph). But your analogy...not so much. If a DO ever got rights to use MD, none of us would claim we graduated from an allopathic institution; we'd all still be graduates of our osteopathic schools. In your example, both people are doing the same job, and they graduated from two different places, but they have the same title, don't they? If anything, it's an analogy FOR the degree change rather than against it. It's not about where we graduated from, it's about what we do with our education, and in that sense it's all the same.
 
gis2011 said:
That also said, I don't think DOs deserve an MD degree, they didn't graduate from an MD school...that's like saying one person who graduates from Harvard college and goes to work at a financial firm and another person gradutates from State U. Both now work at the same place doing the same job...should the State U guy be able to tell his clients he graduated from Harvard? No...just because a DO may do the same stuff as an MD isn't reason to make it seem as if they graduated from an MD school.
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So a medical degree from an allopathic institution is like going to harvard vs. a D.O. degree that is somehow 'inferior' in status?
 
baked alaska said:
DO is a recognized degree in the U.S., while MBBS is not (but shares a more similar philosophy). Why would it be necessary to switch from one U.S. recognized degree (DO) to another (MD) in the U.S.?
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Wrong. The MBBS is recognized in the US, and one can practice medicine under the MBBS degree assuming they've done the USMLE/residency etc. Every now and then you'll find a physician (in my experience usually in urban, academic groups) who have opted to use their MBBS and not co-opt the MD even though it is available to them.
 
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lilwheezy said:
So a medical degree from an allopathic institution is like going to harvard vs. a D.O. degree that is somehow 'inferior' in status?
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I don't think that's what the poster meant.
 
I can see where the OP is coming from. Osteopathical maniupilation is really a treatment moduality. If every treatment moduality warrant a separate title there won't be a unifying title for the medical profession.

hell, surgeons and psycharists may have drastically different attitude, yet they are still all with in the umbrella of "MD". To say DOs should use a separate title because of knowledge of a different moduality is like to say red heads aren't human, but are red heads.

You may argue about the struggle of the DO profession, but I see the difference between a modern DO student vs MD student is very little. Perhaps the only difference on the average is entering stats and the lack of resources for many DO schools. Yet, Harvard gives a BS degree, and Podunk U also gives a BS degree.

For the record, I don't believe DO students and MD student on the average, recieve completely identical education. I find many DO schools lack the resource of an average allo school.

Think about it, the only MD school which doesn't have its own teaching hospital is Rosalind Franklin. There are many DO schools (almost becoming the norm) that don't really have a main teaching hospital system big enough for all the students.
 
Handy388 said:
I can see where the OP is coming from. Osteopathical maniupilation is really a treatment moduality. If every treatment moduality warrant a separate title there won't be a unifying title for the medical profession.

hell, surgeons and psycharists may have drastically different attitude, yet they are still all with in the umbrella of "MD". To say DOs should use a separate title because of knowledge of a different moduality is like to say red heads aren't human, but are red heads.

You may argue about the struggle of the DO profession, but I see the difference between a modern DO student vs MD student is very little. Perhaps the only difference on the average is entering stats and the lack of resources for many DO schools. Yet, Harvard gives a BS degree, and Podunk U also gives a BS degree.

For the record, I don't believe DO students and MD student on the average, recieve completely identical education. I find many DO schools lack the resource of an average allo school.

Think about it, the only MD school which doesn't have its own teaching hospital is Rosalind Franklin. There are many DO schools (almost becoming the norm) that don't really have a main teaching hospital system big enough for all the students.
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And the stupidity continues. Since when do you need a large single hospital(s) affiliated with your school to teach you clinical medicine? I was under the impression you can learn clinical medicine from any of the thousands of hospitals throughout the US.
 
Handy388 said:
I can see where the OP is coming from. Osteopathical maniupilation is really a treatment moduality. If every treatment moduality warrant a separate title there won't be a unifying title for the medical profession.

hell, surgeons and psycharists may have drastically different attitude, yet they are still all with in the umbrella of "MD". To say DOs should use a separate title because of knowledge of a different moduality is like to say red heads aren't human, but are red heads.

You may argue about the struggle of the DO profession, but I see the difference between a modern DO student vs MD student is very little. Perhaps the only difference on the average is entering stats and the lack of resources for many DO schools. Yet, Harvard gives a BS degree, and Podunk U also gives a BS degree.

For the record, I don't believe DO students and MD student on the average, recieve completely identical education. I find many DO schools lack the resource of an average allo school.

Think about it, the only MD school which doesn't have its own teaching hospital is Rosalind Franklin. There are many DO schools (almost becoming the norm) that don't really have a main teaching hospital system big enough for all the students.
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Thanks for pointing that out. No offense here but I noticed that you are going to be MS-1 and it would be more helpful and valuable to have opinions from current medical students and osteopathic physicians since you have no experience on that matter.
Thanks
 
gis2011 said:
That also said, I don't think DOs deserve an MD degree, they didn't graduate from an MD school...that's like saying one person who graduates from Harvard college and goes to work at a financial firm and another person gradutates from State U. Both now work at the same place doing the same job...should the State U guy be able to tell his clients he graduated from Harvard? No...just because a DO may do the same stuff as an MD isn't reason to make it seem as if they graduated from an MD school.
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The bolded statement is inflammatory to say the least, despite your intention. You are implying that all medical schools that grant an MD are superior, even when there are "MD schools" in the Caribbean that accept students without an MCAT score.
 
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Handy388 said:
I can see where the OP is coming from. Osteopathical maniupilation is really a treatment moduality. If every treatment moduality warrant a separate title there won't be a unifying title for the medical profession.

hell, surgeons and psycharists may have drastically different attitude, yet they are still all with in the umbrella of "MD". To say DOs should use a separate title because of knowledge of a different moduality is like to say red heads aren't human, but are red heads.

You may argue about the struggle of the DO profession, but I see the difference between a modern DO student vs MD student is very little. Perhaps the only difference on the average is entering stats and the lack of resources for many DO schools. Yet, Harvard gives a BS degree, and Podunk U also gives a BS degree.

For the record, I don't believe DO students and MD student on the average, recieve completely identical education. I find many DO schools lack the resource of an average allo school.

Think about it, the only MD school which doesn't have its own teaching hospital is Rosalind Franklin. There are many DO schools (almost becoming the norm) that don't really have a main teaching hospital system big enough for all the students.
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Sorry, this isn't true. MSU College of Human Medicine and Wayne State University School of Medicine are both MD schools that don't have traditional teaching hospitals and use a more community-based hospital system.
 
TXDO said:
Thanks for pointing that out. No offense here but I noticed that you are going to be MS-1 and it would be more helpful and valuable to have opinions from current medical students and osteopathic physicians since you have no experience on that matter.
Thanks
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So his opinion will be valuable in 4ish weeks after he starts classes? :rolleyes:. Its just an opinion, there's always the ignore button if it perturbs you that badly.
 
You can argue semantics about DOs all you want. The reality is we DOs are 99% clinically identical to MDs in the 21st centiry medicine. Holding and offering degrees in Osteopathic Medicine is strictly historical, and there is NO NEED to remain seperate.

There is not much rational to remain separate, and for the most part the argument offered most by those opposed is that you should have went to MD school. This isnt about choosing a school. Its about furthering something that doesn't exist - osteopathic medicine - in a sense keeping history intact to preserve what has become a pseudo loop hole. This argument is cheap and holds little wait outside of trying to insult and silence those that are questioning this non-sense from within.

I dont feel honest when I think about our schools as "osteopathic" medical schools. Do you? They are medical schools, that use a loop hole (aka the AOA/COCA) to have accerdiadation on US soil and further this "proffession" that no longer exists - osteoapthic medicine. NONE OF US PRACTICE OSTEOPATHIC MEDICINE nor teach it. We misrepresent ourselves and our training with this degree - DO. We are not doctors of osteopathic medicine. I dont even no what that is in the year 2009 aside from the few OMM faculty that exist I suppose.

This has nothing to do with needing MD. This is about honestly representing what we are, medical doctors and NOT doctors of osteopathy. AT Still invented this title (DO) 100 years ago. He designated it as DO bc it was Doctor of Osteopathy. Is that what you are? Im Not. DO does NOT apply to our current practice state and we have the power to change it in a merger, if we could get over ourselves and do so.

The only reason this has persisted is due to doctor shortage and economic booms that allowed our schools to expand when MD schools were not. We pressed out so called "schools" to inflate our numbers and this year will begin 5100 new DO students while only offering 2500 DO residency slots. Pathetic.

Our seperation is based in nothing other than money, greed, pride, and idiotic AOA PR campaigns that make us out to be bone doctor manipulators. That market has been taken up by DCs NOT DOs, and we need to move away from that idea.

Its absurd, and how well educated people refuse to give this up and merge these two professions is beyond me. Having seperate systems only wastes money and reasources, not to mention leaving the "who is called physician" door open to third parties (DNPs, DCs, PA,PhD, ect.) all who want to follow our (DO) primary care PR model to gain pracitce rights.

WAKE UP. This is not 1920. We are not different. There are more doctors now than just MD and DOs and your degrees marketability (your holy DO) will be tested in the 21st century against expanding MD programs and mid line provider "drs".

WAKE UP! Merge these professions.


Lets play a game. Find the Doctor:
MD
DNP
DC
DO
PA-PhD
DPM
DPT
ND

Merge us.
 
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J1515 said:
And the stupidity continues. Since when do you need a large single hospital(s) affiliated with your school to teach you clinical medicine? I was under the impression you can learn clinical medicine from any of the thousands of hospitals throughout the US.
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For a doctor, you sure do have a lot of time on your hands to be posting critisizing conversation online. Especially with students!? I guess that makes you feel powerful. Perhaps, conversing with doctors is out of your league?
 
tatstyl said:
For a doctor, you sure do have a lot of time on your hands to be posting critisizing conversation online. Especially with students!? I guess that makes you feel powerful. Perhaps, conversing with doctors is out of your league?
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How impressive, instead of formulating a counterpoint you attack his credibility. I applaud thee.


I think you have issues. Like stupidity.
 
Interesting post.
 
I was once part of this argument a few years ago. If I were to look at it from a patient perspective, I see an alphabet soup. Primary Care is being conducted by NPR's, DO's, PA's, MD's, and even PharmD's etc.... Does the patient have any idea as to what the differences are? In today's day and age people are reffered to a health professional because they practice good medicine. There friends, father, mother, sister, brother, aunt or uncle, etc... saw that health care professional and really liked him or her and therefore that patient came to you.

That being said I do think that DO brand of physician has not been sold well to the general public. Some people think it is alternative medicine, holistic medicine, or think that we are chiropractors. The General public is bombarded with the MD brand from WebMD to HouseMD. With only about 5% of DO's actually use there OMM training, Do patients really see the DO difference? Some of OMM is very valuable and I can see that it will help me be a better diagnostician and overall clinician. At the very least it has strengthened my anatomy education. Even if you feel that it does nothing, it is at least no worse effect than a placebo which has a 33% chance of healing your patient. Is it worth it to try something that may make your patient better? Isn't that the ultimately the goal. Making your patients feel better. As a future physician I will do whatever it takes for my patient to get better.

How do we stop this confusion? How do we get people to see the DO difference or if there is no difference why don't we just merge? Interesting stats that MD schools in the US are hiring more DO's as faculty than MD's. DO schools have MD's as faculty too. Personally I think the merge is already happening. In my school there was even an MD who was part of the OMM department teaching OMM. MD's who take courses in OMM after medical school to become certified in it. Should we give them DO degree's?

DO' and MD's are colleagues and work together starting from the third year of medical school up to the attending level. MD students will have DO attending's and vice verse.

Maybe all letters after our names should go away and just put one word at the end of our names, Physician At the end of the day that is what we are.
 
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The best way to get the DO degree killed is to convince premeds to stop applying to DO schools (no demand, no money, no way to keep the schools open), and that's never going to happen because we have the same practice rights and make the same money in the end.

Getting the DO degree and then bitching about the initials is not going to convince the AOA to grant everyone MD's. From where they sit, their numbers are growing. If you want the degree to die, then apply to MD schools. Because you know what talks in the end? Money. No argument is stronger.
 
Anyways, until that happens, you guys who are already on the DO path but don't like the initials are pretty much ****ed for now.
 
tatstyl said:
For a doctor, you sure do have a lot of time on your hands to be posting critisizing conversation online. Especially with students!? I guess that makes you feel powerful. Perhaps, conversing with doctors is out of your league?
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I'm not a doctor yet. I haven't seen a single statement yet from any of you kiddies as to why an initials change should be addressed before post graduate opportunites/quality, entrance stats, OMM content, or content of board exams are addressed. All I see are a bunch of MD wannabe's who couldn't do so well on the MCAT and used DO as a backup and are now screaming "WE DO THE SAME THING SO WE SHOULD BE CALLED MD!" While there is zero chance of them changing the DO designation, you are all doing a fine job making our profession look like a bunch of insecure MD rejects. Keep up the good work :thumbup:

(the funniest is the "fellow" who has a grand total of 3 posts on SDN and is leading the supposed grass roots movement on the letter change :laugh: Me thinks this is the same pre-med who tried the same thing a few months ago and even made his own little website but everyone laughed at him because he hadn't even entered med school yet)

I'm done here, have a nice day.
 
I dont really care about a degree name change but i would be interested in an AMA/AOA merger. Anything that could make the primary physician lobby group(AMA) a little stronger. We really need somebody strong to stand up for us these days. A unified group may accomplish this (I realize that only a minority of physicians even belong to either groups).The AOA is stubborn and unrelenting in its ways and behaves like it wields alot more power than it does. The AMA could use a little more of that attitude. The AMA has been so weak and timid lately. The AMA takes a stand and then immediately backs off of it. This occurs with multiple issues. The AOA hasnt changed its mind on a matter since they decided to include pharmacology in the curriculum in the early 1900's.
 
Handy388 said:
I
hell, surgeons and psycharists may have drastically different attitude, yet they are still all with in the umbrella of "MD". To say DOs should use a separate title because of knowledge of a different moduality is like to say red heads aren't human, but are red heads.
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Since when are gingers considered humans? I was under the impression that a soul was required to be a human. I guess my DO education taught me wrong.
 
Handy388 said:
For the record, I don't believe DO students and MD student on the average, recieve completely identical education. I find many DO schools lack the resource of an average allo school.

Think about it, the only MD school which doesn't have its own teaching hospital is Rosalind Franklin. There are many DO schools (almost becoming the norm) that don't really have a main teaching hospital system big enough for all the students.
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Nothing says im learning like being at a giant academic university hospital in a room with 8 other med students, while the residents do everything, and any attention from the attending goes to the residents first. Im not saying that this happens all the time but it does happen. There is a reason that alot of MD schools send out their medical students to smaller affiliated community hospitals rather than have them crowd up their main University hospital. There are some advantages to the community hospital environment. Although there are disadvantages as well.
 
Instead of us pre-meds and med students fighting in this forum, we should discuss this with practicing DOs and hear their opinion on this. With my experience with DOs; they are no different than MDs. They can do everythin an MD can. DOs qualify for allo residencies after graduating from DO school then that's it. There's nothing to fight or argue about.

MD title doesn't make you superior. It's only a title. Yes! MD title is recognized all over the world but MDs have been around for a while. DOs have been around for like 100 years, right?
Dr Still held MD and DO titles, by the way. So did he work as a DO at one hospital and MD at other. No! Because it's all the same. We all learn the same stuff. We practice the same way.
 
tabishis said:
MD title is recognized all over the world but MDs have been around for a while.
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The USMD degree is recognized, but that does not mean you can practice anywhere in the world with it. Different countries have different licensing requirements for 'foreign' MDs. The 'universal' MD degree is a myth.
 
J1515 said:
I'm not a doctor yet. I haven't seen a single statement yet from any of you kiddies as to why an initials change should be addressed before post graduate opportunites/quality, entrance stats, OMM content, or content of board exams are addressed. All I see are a bunch of MD wannabe's who couldn't do so well on the MCAT and used DO as a backup and are now screaming "WE DO THE SAME THING SO WE SHOULD BE CALLED MD!" While there is zero chance of them changing the DO designation, you are all doing a fine job making our profession look like a bunch of insecure MD rejects. Keep up the good work :thumbup:

(the funniest is the "fellow" who has a grand total of 3 posts on SDN and is leading the supposed grass roots movement on the letter change :laugh: Me thinks this is the same pre-med who tried the same thing a few months ago and even made his own little website but everyone laughed at him because he hadn't even entered med school yet)

I'm done here, have a nice day.
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I know DO students who scored higher than you did/will (statistically speaking, they were in the top 1%).
 
tabishis said:
DOs qualify for allo residencies after graduating from DO school then that's it. There's nothing to fight or argue about.

DOs have been around for like 100 years, right?
Dr Still held MD and DO titles, by the way. So did he work as a DO at one hospital and MD at other. No! Because it's all the same. We all learn the same stuff. We practice the same way.
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DOs have been around for 200+ years.

The reason Dr Still worked as a DO was because he thought the MDs at the time were quacks and he was right. When DOs were initially established they provided better healthcare than MDs just by virtue of them not killing their patients by draining all their blood or poisoning them with mercury. However by ~1920's MDs were making progress by not using "heroic" methods which had killed many people in the past. Instead they were now using vaccines and employed the germ theory. Thus many DOs got their MD's so they could practice any type of medicine they wanted because there were licensing issues in many states preventing DOs from practicing anything but "osteopathy".

The reason DOs can pursue allopathic residencies is because it was a ploy from the AMA to draw DOs away from the AOA. Originally if DOs went into an allopathic residency it severed their ties with the AOA. However when the AOA realized they were going to loose people they allowed for it to happen and for DOs to apply for prop 42 so their intern year at allopathic institutions could count as their TRI.

If you want to read something about this I'd recommend reading "The DOs, Osteopathic Medicine in America" by Norman Gevitz.

MichiganDO said:
Our seperation is based in nothing other than money, greed, pride, and idiotic AOA PR campaigns that make us out to be bone doctor manipulators.
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I agree with this for the most part because during the last century the AMA has made large efforts to absorb DOs and have been thwarted by the AOA which decided to open more schools than it has resources for to increase our numbers. The biggest drawback to a possible merger are licensing and reimbursement issues. Unless it is done carefully there could be issues just like there were after the California merger. From that respect we are all better off as DOs. I agree with the logic of merging the two however I do not see it happening in the whatsoever near future and thus I also agree that when we all bitch about it it makes us look like wannabes. If a merger happens it happens but until then I'm not going to obsess over it. After all, DOs can do everything MDs can, so we should take this opportunity and run with it.
 
J1515 said:
I'm not a doctor yet. I haven't seen a single statement yet from any of you kiddies as to why an initials change should be addressed before post graduate opportunites/quality, entrance stats, OMM content, or content of board exams are addressed. All I see are a bunch of MD wannabe's who couldn't do so well on the MCAT and used DO as a backup and are now screaming "WE DO THE SAME THING SO WE SHOULD BE CALLED MD!" While there is zero chance of them changing the DO designation, you are all doing a fine job making our profession look like a bunch of insecure MD rejects. Keep up the good work :thumbup:

(the funniest is the "fellow" who has a grand total of 3 posts on SDN and is leading the supposed grass roots movement on the letter change :laugh: Me thinks this is the same pre-med who tried the same thing a few months ago and even made his own little website but everyone laughed at him because he hadn't even entered med school yet)
xx
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J1515 said:
I'm not a doctor yet. I haven't seen a single statement yet from any of you kiddies as to why an initials change should be addressed before post graduate opportunites/quality, entrance stats, OMM content, or content of board exams are addressed. All I see are a bunch of MD wannabe's who couldn't do so well on the MCAT and used DO as a backup and are now screaming "WE DO THE SAME THING SO WE SHOULD BE CALLED MD!" While there is zero chance of them changing the DO designation, you are all doing a fine job making our profession look like a bunch of insecure MD rejects. Keep up the good work :thumbup:

(the funniest is the "fellow" who has a grand total of 3 posts on SDN and is leading the supposed grass roots movement on the letter change :laugh: Me thinks this is the same pre-med who tried the same thing a few months ago and even made his own little website but everyone laughed at him because he hadn't even entered med school yet)

I'm done here, have a nice day.
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Most of student here haven't enter med school. The attitude may change later on, but now, it is like the crawling stage. They will trip and fall; bust heads and one day will finally get the point. I agree with you for the most part except for the name calling, it does not make you look good, and will certainly not stop them.
Have a nice day:)
 
J1515 said:
It's not. But you have a bunch of insecure pre-meds who couldn't get into an MD school yet always dreamed of having the MD after their name, that were forced to go to a DO school as a backup. Now they come up with every excuse in the book as to why they deserve the MD even though they couldn't get into an MD school.
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This man speaks the truth. :thumbup:

Newsflash: If you want an MD, go to an MD school.
 
tkim said:
The USMD degree is recognized, but that does not mean you can practice anywhere in the world with it. Different countries have different licensing requirements for 'foreign' MDs. The 'universal' MD degree is a myth.
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Agreed.

I also looked at the map for international practice rights for US trained DO's and there are many more countries than I expected where they have unlimited practice rights. It even seems to have increased since 2006.

I hate the argument that is always brought up about international practice rights. As if every US med student plans on opening a private practice in some third world country upon completion of residency. BullS@#T. I am sure there are some, but I have never met one. And the majority of the people making this argument will never even leave the country other than for vacation or the rare world medical relief mission.

Would all those third world countries deny an American DO access to a patient because he didn't graduate from an MD institution? I doubt it. And if they did, F'em. Let them take care of themselves then.
 
DrMom said:
Ummm. Not quite. More like 135 years. Dr Still wasn't even born 200 years ago. (born in 1828)



from: http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?PageID=ado_whatis


I think we as D.O.s have much bigger, more important issues to fight for than the letters after our names.
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Touche, I'm mixing my centuries up. I agree with this wholeheartedly. It seems that the vast majority of DOs in practice couldn't give two sh*ts about the initials. Instead we should be focusing on trying to have an impact on the healthcare reform that is going to take place soon. Anyone have suggestions on that?
 
TeamZissou said:
DOs have been around for 200+ years.

The reason DOs can pursue allopathic residencies is because it was a ploy from the AMA to draw DOs away from the AOA. Originally if DOs went into an allopathic residency it severed their ties with the AOA. However when the AOA realized they were going to loose people they allowed for it to happen and for DOs to apply for prop 42 so their intern year at allopathic institutions could count as their TRI.

If you want to read something about this I'd recommend reading "The DOs, Osteopathic Medicine in America" by Norman Gevitz.

I agree with this for the most part because during the last century the AMA has made large efforts to absorb DOs and have been thwarted by the AOA which decided to open more schools than it has resources for to increase our numbers. The biggest drawback to a possible merger are licensing and reimbursement issues. Unless it is done carefully there could be issues just like there were after the California merger. From that respect we are all better off as DOs. I agree with the logic of merging the two however I do not see it happening in the whatsoever near future and thus I also agree that when we all bitch about it it makes us look like wannabes. If a merger happens it happens but until then I'm not going to obsess over it. After all, DOs can do everything MDs can, so we should take this opportunity and run with it.
Click to expand...

Ummm....DOs have NOT been around for 200 years - 1809? AT Still was not yet born. But thanks for the history lesson.

Thanks for the recomendation, but Ive read Gevitzs book several times already. Ive also met the guy.

What you state is essentially word for word what he writes in his book. Its nothing new. What Gevitz failed to address in his book is why these two systems of medicine need to exsist, when they are clinically identical. Critics of his writing agree the book side steps the issue that DO schools are idnetical to MD schools in the modern era, and so why the separation? His book is essentially a one sided history lesson about DOs.

So while I know you like Gevitz, and I agree with you on some of this, realize his point of view and his book has some bias in it.
We need to still take serious consideration that our degrees DO NOT represent our current state of practice and their marketability
will be a question in this century of medicine - merge us.

Voice yourself to the AOA president: http://blogs.do-online.org/aoapresident.php
 
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