mandongo

10+ Year Member
Nov 11, 2008
15
1
Status
Does anyone have recently published stats on the COMLEX pass rates and scoring average of each D.O. school? This would just be an interesting fact to know, that's all. Thanks
 

stonewall22

10+ Year Member
Jul 22, 2008
343
0
Status
Pre-Medical
Does anyone have recently published stats on the COMLEX pass rates and scoring average of each D.O. school? This would just be an interesting fact to know, that's all. Thanks
This information is not published. These numbers are released to each school and they can choose whether or not they make them public.
 

Karen12345

10+ Year Member
Feb 16, 2007
716
0
Status
Non-Student
What's interesting is that schools often only talk about the impressive pass rates of students, without mentioning the average.

Just because 98% pass in itself isn't impressive if 80% barely pass.

Something I didn't consider until someone told me about this.
 
About the Ads

Flushot

10+ Year Member
Feb 25, 2008
1,646
13
Status
Resident [Any Field]
A better question to ask would be how the school prepares students for the boards. Is it formal class, i.e. Kaplan, TPR? How much time off if not? You can use these answers to better suit your style.
 

213965

Guest
10+ Year Member
Jul 15, 2008
558
0
Status
Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
What's interesting is that schools often only talk about the impressive pass rates of students, without mentioning the average.

Just because 98% pass in itself isn't impressive if 80% barely pass.

Something I didn't consider until someone told me about this.
Yeah, it's not like the MCAT where you can retake it multiple times if you're not happy with your first score. Unless of course you fail it the first time, but I think that looks worse than taking it and scoring low once.
 

slim78

10+ Year Member
Dec 18, 2007
595
8
Status
Medical Student
What's interesting is that schools often only talk about the impressive pass rates of students, without mentioning the average.

Just because 98% pass in itself isn't impressive if 80% barely pass.

Something I didn't consider until someone told me about this.
I'd be very interested to learn how it would be possible to teach at a level where you have an above-average passing percentage and a below average overall score. You're think they would be correlated. You either know this stuff or you don't. Does anyone have any actual numbers to verify whether this has really ever been the case? Seems like an odd hypothetical situation that people are unnecessarily freaking out about.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Promethean

Dissected

All bleeding stops eventually
10+ Year Member
Jul 16, 2008
2,670
52
West Coast
Status
Attending Physician
I'd be very interested to learn how it would be possible to teach at a level where you have an above-average passing percentage and a below average overall score. You're think they would be correlated. You either know this stuff or you don't. Does anyone have any actual numbers to verify whether this has really ever been the case? Seems like an odd hypothetical situation that people are unnecessarily freaking out about.
I had the exact same thought. These numbers probably almost always correlate. And if there is deviation, it is probably minuscule.
 

saylorsdad

OSU-CHS OMSII
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Apr 23, 2007
501
1
Tushka, OK
Status
Medical Student
it is possible to teach at a level where you have average scores and below avg pass rates if you teach to top learners. i guess you could do a good job focusing on bottom learners and lose some top learners.
 

Dissected

All bleeding stops eventually
10+ Year Member
Jul 16, 2008
2,670
52
West Coast
Status
Attending Physician
A good pass rate lets a prospective student know that the education at the school is more than adequate to get a passing score (obviously, but this is important). You can't assume much beyond that. I would be surprised, though, if a school with a perfect pass rate (TCOM) would under any circumstances have a lower average score than one with a 90% pass rate. I really do think there is a strong correlation between pass % and average scores (DMU handed out a form that had both statistics compared to national averages and they were directly correlated), but there is room for miniscule differences. One has to keep in mind that you get out of the curriculum what you put in no matter where you are. The COMLEX taken on an individual basis, not as a statistic based on a very minute difference in pass rates (94-98%), is whats more important. If you know a school can prepare you to pass the exam, that is great. Anything beyond that I dont expect to have spoon fed to me..its going to be on me to put in the extra ball-busting to do well on the exam. I think it is a fallacy to expect a school to prepare you better than somewhere else because their students had better average scores --> I think this correlates better with admissions requirements to be honest.
 

matlabsux

10+ Year Member
Apr 20, 2008
128
0
Status
Medical Student
For those of you who have ever studied rudimentary statistics, you know it is entirely possible to have very high pass rates and low mean score for the usmle, comlex or for that matter ANY exam.

A passing grade is an arbitrary cut off on the exam. It does not matter if you pass by 1 point, or 100 points, the school would get to say you passed. If a school does a job good enough to just get a majority of student to pass the exam by a few points or so, than their class may still have a very low mean score.

If a class of 150 take the comlex and the mean score is a 410, this is a red flag. The class mean is above passing on level 1 and they may have 98% percent of their class at this mark or better. Sure they have a 98% pass rate but the mean score is still low. Is this tight knit aggregate of scores likely? Probably not but it is possible. However, in medical school there are a wide range of students with a wide range of intellectual and test taking ability (not the same thing). Most schools I suspect with a high margin of passing probably also have a significant number of students scoring well above passing.

This is not something students should “freak out” about but it is a valid question and concern before you decide which school to go to. If a school likes to boast about its very high pass rate but refuses to disclose its average score, it is right for a student to be wary. If the school does a bad job preparing you to do anything but barely pass or doesn’t give their students enough time to fully prepare that should have a bearing on your decision to attend.

The fact is none of these schools are required to release their score data so if a school is loudly touting one aspect while being sheepish about another, try to do some digging. If even current students don’t know what the average is for their recent classes, I would be worried about a school like that. If the school does well, it would not want to hide from their own student body.

Essentially, the comlex/step will boil down to how much work you put into studying, but the schools level of preparation via their basic science education will help determine the foundation you work from when you begin studying in earnest for these exams. Food for thought.
 

medmom

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Feb 11, 2005
313
1
Colorado
www.mdapplicants.com
Status
Medical Student
I wanted to point something out that I didn't know before I started medical school. Some schools make you take a pre-test that is basically a remake of the test and if you don't pass the pre-test than they won't let you take the real test. This is one way to keep their "pass rate" high. So in all honesty the pass rate doesn't mean a whole lot unless you are willing to research which schools let everyone take it vs. which ones screen out potential fails first. Here at WVSOM we do not have a screening test. Everyone that passes first and second year can take the test. I believe our pass rate is around 82%.
 

Flushot

10+ Year Member
Feb 25, 2008
1,646
13
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I wanted to point something out that I didn't know before I started medical school. Some schools make you take a pre-test that is basically a remake of the test and if you don't pass the pre-test than they won't let you take the real test. This is one way to keep their "pass rate" high. So in all honesty the pass rate doesn't mean a whole lot unless you are willing to research which schools let everyone take it vs. which ones screen out potential fails first. Here at WVSOM we do not have a screening test. Everyone that passes first and second year can take the test. I believe our pass rate is around 82%.
I believe AZCOM does a screening/pre-test. I would consider this a good thing since you want everyone to do well, but I think it's unanimous that what is said about board scores should be taken with salt.

Thanks for letting us know about WVSOM. I admire their trust in the students enough to take it without pre-screening, although I would prefer it the other way around.
 

Chocolate Bear

Moderizzle Fo'Shizzle!
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
May 7, 2008
8,186
11
The Only Place I Wanna Be
Status
An 82% pass rate without a pre-screening seems like a terrible situation, compared to a pre-screen and a 98% pass rate.

Am I missing something? Anyone object? Why? You can't go back and make up for a failed COMLEX. You can pass, but the failed score remains.
 
About the Ads

Dissected

All bleeding stops eventually
10+ Year Member
Jul 16, 2008
2,670
52
West Coast
Status
Attending Physician
I believe AZCOM does a screening/pre-test. I would consider this a good thing since you want everyone to do well, but I think it's unanimous that what is said about board scores should be taken with salt.

Thanks for letting us know about WVSOM. I admire their trust in the students enough to take it without pre-screening, although I would prefer it the other way around.
woah, yea. like a bucket of salt. If they only let students who pass a screening take the COMLEX that means that almost everyone who is taking it is projected to pass in the first place. How can you even take pass rates seriously anymore without knowing whether there is a pre-screen? I guess I can't blame admissions for trying to sell their school, part of the game I guess.
 

Chocolate Bear

Moderizzle Fo'Shizzle!
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
May 7, 2008
8,186
11
The Only Place I Wanna Be
Status
woah, yea. like a bucket of salt. If they only let students who pass a screening take the COMLEX that means that almost everyone who is taking it is projected to pass in the first place. How can you even take pass rates seriously anymore without knowing whether there is a pre-screen? I guess I can't blame admissions for trying to sell their school, part of the game I guess.
But the COMLEX is generally/always required for graduation. So, even if there is a pre-screen, everyone has to take it eventually. They will just take it, knowing they will pass, or at least knowing they are highly likely to pass.

Seems like a win-win to me. Sign me up for a pre-screen--I don't wanna fail.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Promethean

Dissected

All bleeding stops eventually
10+ Year Member
Jul 16, 2008
2,670
52
West Coast
Status
Attending Physician
But the COMLEX is generally/always required for graduation. So, even if there is a pre-screen, everyone has to take it eventually. They will just take it, knowing they will pass, or at least knowing they are highly likely to pass.

Seems like a win-win to me. Sign me up for a pre-screen--I don't wanna fail.
I agree completely. pre-screening seems very smart.
 

scpod

Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Oct 13, 2005
3,240
125
Status
Attending Physician
Lecom- Bradenton doesn't pre-screen. Classes end April of 2nd year and you have about two weeks of exams. In late April they begin a two-week board review. The Friday before that and a couple of more times you take mock tests, but they are for diagnostic purposes. You receive a sheet that shows what subjects and organ systems you are deficient in. There is a second "mandatory" board review for a week for anyone who's average is below 75. Then, you have time off until June when you start rotations.

I studied for an extra week after board review, took the test, went to Las Vegas for a week, then moved to Orlando a few days before rotations started. Nobody is prevented from taking boards as long as you pass all your subjects. The last two classes have averaged a 97% pass rate and well above 500 in average score. Personally, I don't see how you can fail because our PBL tests are incredibly close to COMLEX, except the PBL tests are a little harder.

I think it's easier for our students than it may be in some places because of the curiculum. We learn the basic sciences in a case-based manor. COMLEX tests you in a case-based manor. We don't have individual subject tests. All the sciences are mixed in a clinical context for two years... the same way COMLEX does it. We're used to it.
 

matlabsux

10+ Year Member
Apr 20, 2008
128
0
Status
Medical Student
Lecom- Bradenton...I studied for an extra week after board review, took the test, went to Las Vegas for a week, then moved to Orlando a few days before rotations started. Nobody is prevented from taking boards as long as you pass all your subjects. The last two classes have averaged a 97% pass rate and well above 500 in average score. .

Do you know anything about LECOM-B's USMLE Step 1 pass rate or average?
 

Dissected

All bleeding stops eventually
10+ Year Member
Jul 16, 2008
2,670
52
West Coast
Status
Attending Physician
Do you know anything about LECOM-B's USMLE Step 1 pass rate or average?
schools normally dont release these becaues USMLE test takers are a self-selecting group. They might...they would be in the minority though.
 

scpod

Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Oct 13, 2005
3,240
125
Status
Attending Physician
Do you know anything about LECOM-B's USMLE Step 1 pass rate or average?
USMLE scores are not automatically reported to schools like COMLEX is. So, they don't really have access to that information unless it's released to them by a student. The scores that have been reported are pretty good-- but that doesn't really mean much.
 

Flushot

10+ Year Member
Feb 25, 2008
1,646
13
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I believe that TCOM requests again and again to those who take it to report back. They seem eager to share the results Officially, like DoktorB says, they only get the COMLEX back, like other DO schools.
 

Chocolate Bear

Moderizzle Fo'Shizzle!
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
May 7, 2008
8,186
11
The Only Place I Wanna Be
Status
schools normally dont release these becaues USMLE test takers are a self-selecting group. They might...they would be in the minority though.
Did anyone else get an evil eye from the admins when they asked DO schools if they had any info on the proportion and performance of their students on the USMLE? You woulda thought I hit em with a mean 'yo momma' joke! :smuggrin:
 

matlabsux

10+ Year Member
Apr 20, 2008
128
0
Status
Medical Student
For those of us interested in Allopathic residencies after graduation, we will want to take the Usmle Step 1, especially for competitive specialties. Many DO schools like to think that residency programs are coming around to the Comlex but the truth is there is still a lot of bias.

In order to see if there was a basis for this bias, in 2006 the AOA decided to study the correlation, if any, between a score on comlex levels 1/2 and usmle steps 1/2. The following is what they found.

"The USMLE Step 1 score is predicted by the COMLEX-USA Level 1 score using the following equation:

USMLE Step 1 = 67.97 + 0.24*COMLEX-USA Level 1
(R^2=0.68)"


The USMLE Step 2 score is predicted by the corresponding COMLEX-USA Level 2 score using the following equation:

USMLE Step 2 = 102.2 + 0.18  COMLEX-USA Level 2"


R^2 is known as the correlation coefficiten. ie. the degree of variability in the usmle scroe than can be attributesd to the degree of variability in comlex score. As you can see, even a COMLEX 1 score of 500 works out to a USMLE score of (67.97+0.24*500) or 188. This is just 6 points above the minimum passing score on the USMLE and well below any Allopathic school average.

This article can be found in the Journal of the AOA• Vol 106 • No 9 • September 2006. I have posted the link here.

So, when you look at a DO school and are intereted in doing a tradtionally competitive specialty or wish to do an Allpathic Residency, look long and hard at the schools level of board prep and past performance. As you can clearly see, DO students on average are at a disadvantage when it comes to board score, one of the biggest screening factors for residencies.

This stuff isn't hard to find people. When you're at these schools ask some questions, this is your career you're deciding on.

http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/reprint/106/9/568.pdf
 
About the Ads

Dissected

All bleeding stops eventually
10+ Year Member
Jul 16, 2008
2,670
52
West Coast
Status
Attending Physician
Did anyone else get an evil eye from the admins when they asked DO schools if they had any info on the proportion and performance of their students on the USMLE? You woulda thought I hit em with a mean 'yo momma' joke! :smuggrin:
a lot of dodgy answers too haha.
 

JonnyG

IN the hospitals....
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Oct 13, 2004
1,045
3
40
Bala Cynwyd, too cool for philly
Status
Resident [Any Field]
For those of us interested in Allopathic residencies after graduation, we will want to take the Usmle Step 1, especially for competitive specialties. Many DO schools like to think that residency programs are coming around to the Comlex but the truth is there is still a lot of bias.

In order to see if there was a basis for this bias, in 2006 the AOA decided to study the correlation, if any, between a score on comlex levels 1/2 and usmle steps 1/2. The following is what they found.

"The USMLE Step 1 score is predicted by the COMLEX-USA Level 1 score using the following equation:

USMLE Step 1 = 67.97 + 0.24*COMLEX-USA Level 1
(R^2=0.68)"


The USMLE Step 2 score is predicted by the corresponding COMLEX-USA Level 2 score using the following equation:

USMLE Step 2 = 102.2 + 0.18  COMLEX-USA Level 2"


R^2 is known as the correlation coefficiten. ie. the degree of variability in the usmle scroe than can be attributesd to the degree of variability in comlex score. As you can see, even a COMLEX 1 score of 500 works out to a USMLE score of (67.97+0.24*500) or 188. This is just 6 points above the minimum passing score on the USMLE and well below any Allopathic school average.

This article can be found in the Journal of the AOA• Vol 106 • No 9 • September 2006. I have posted the link here.

So, when you look at a DO school and are intereted in doing a tradtionally competitive specialty or wish to do an Allpathic Residency, look long and hard at the schools level of board prep and past performance. As you can clearly see, DO students on average are at a disadvantage when it comes to board score, one of the biggest screening factors for residencies.

This stuff isn't hard to find people. When you're at these schools ask some questions, this is your career you're deciding on.

http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/reprint/106/9/568.pdf
This conversion score is bs and the study they used was faulty. I believe they only looked at one school. This undershot my usmle score by 30 points. We are talking about competitive for nothing to competitive for ROADE specialties. If a PD actually used this score to convert my comlex i woudl have been screwed.
 

Chocolate Bear

Moderizzle Fo'Shizzle!
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
May 7, 2008
8,186
11
The Only Place I Wanna Be
Status
This conversion score is bs and the study they used was faulty. I believe they only looked at one school. This undershot my usmle score by 30 points. We are talking about competitive for nothing to competitive for ROADE specialties. If a PD actually used this score to convert my comlex i woudl have been screwed.
It would have to have an R^2 of 1 to not be considered "faulty" at least some of the time.
 

matlabsux

10+ Year Member
Apr 20, 2008
128
0
Status
Medical Student
This conversion score is bs and the study they used was faulty. I believe they only looked at one school. This undershot my usmle score by 30 points. We are talking about competitive for nothing to competitive for ROADE specialties. If a PD actually used this score to convert my comlex i woudl have been screwed.

The conversion score is something done by the AOA themselves, so I doubt they're aim was to make DO's look bad. As far as when you call the study "faulty" in order to make a decent argument you'll need to do better than that. What exactly is the statistical fault you find in the study? To claim that the study population size is too small in scope can be valid, but does not render the study faulty. This study was done looking at the KCOM, a slight above average DO school with slightly above average MCAT scores. It is meant as a fair representation of the average DO student.

Having a smaller population size does not render a study faulty; it simply lessens its statistical power. Just like any study, it is impossible to get data on everybody. This is a formula, given by the AOA to Allopathic residency programs, to project the expected Usmle score of an average DO applicant. That fact that it "undershot" your usmle by 30 points means nothing. Just like if I score 30 points above average on an exam, it does not make the mean any less significant.

The plain truth is the average DO student will score lower on the usmle than the average MD student. This is what the MCAT is used as a predictor for, medical student academic performance. The average DO student has a lower MCAT than the average MD student. The difference stems from the student populations in each discipline and the education itself. In DO schools they are preparing you to take the comlex, not the usmle. That prep you do on your own, like most of your comlex studying. The comlex is not simply the usmle with OMM as many would have you believe. They are different animals.

A very smart, hard working student will ace the USMLE/COMLEX no matter what type of school they go to (DO/MD/Carib), but most students are not that smart or hard working, most of us are the average or close to it. Don’t be consumed by worry about numbers but do not go the other extreme and pretend none of it matters.
 

medmom

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Feb 11, 2005
313
1
Colorado
www.mdapplicants.com
Status
Medical Student
I do agree that a pre-test would be a good idea. Here at WVSOM, I know that they are considering doing this in the future but as of right now we don't. Also, as the LECOM-B student mentioned their board prep, the school does not currently provide ANY formal board prep to my knowledge. Last year they tried to get a KAPLAN course and there were not enough students interested. So, as of now we are all on our own to study. I think that, combined with no pre-test is part of why our pass rate is not higher. Every year there are a least a couple of people that did well in their courses that just assume that that means they don't have to study:laugh:
 

Dissected

All bleeding stops eventually
10+ Year Member
Jul 16, 2008
2,670
52
West Coast
Status
Attending Physician
The plain truth is the average DO student will score lower on the usmle than the average MD student. This is what the MCAT is used as a predictor for, medical student academic performance. The average DO student has a lower MCAT than the average MD student. The difference stems from the student populations in each discipline and the education itself. In DO schools they are preparing you to take the comlex, not the usmle. That prep you do on your own, like most of your comlex studying. The comlex is not simply the usmle with OMM as many would have you believe. They are different animals.
I buy this. Im ready to bust my chops for USMLE too :D
 

slim78

10+ Year Member
Dec 18, 2007
595
8
Status
Medical Student
Funny thing is... I scored better than the majority of my classmates on the MCAT and yet I still feel like I struggle to get As.

MCAT isn't such a great predictor.

Just like the SAT wasn't a great predictor for college performance. I was below average as far as SAT scores at my college but still did above average in my classes. Then I get a higher than average MCAT (for my school) and now I feel like I struggle to stay above average.

These tests suck. Of course this is n=1=me

I forget what my point was.

I'm going to class.
 

Brodiewankenobi

Level 13 Mage
10+ Year Member
Oct 10, 2007
245
2
Azeroth
Status
Pre-Medical
Sorry to go back into the thread, but yowzhers! One out of every five students doesn't pass the COMLEX? If your school has rates like that, i really hope they are disclosing it to prospective students. All of the schools I interviewed at disclosed their scores. DMU went above and beyond, graphing out national averages and trends. How many classes have graduated at WVSOM? If you fail the exam, do re-takes work the same as the USMLE?
 

Flushot

10+ Year Member
Feb 25, 2008
1,646
13
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Funny thing is... I scored better than the majority of my classmates on the MCAT and yet I still feel like I struggle to get As.

MCAT isn't such a great predictor.

Just like the SAT wasn't a great predictor for college performance. I was below average as far as SAT scores at my college but still did above average in my classes. Then I get a higher than average MCAT (for my school) and now I feel like I struggle to stay above average.

These tests suck. Of course this is n=1=me

I forget what my point was.

I'm going to class.
+1

I have the same feelings about both, but the SAT and the GRE seem even more crippled because of how general it is. The MCAT is a better indicator I think in comparison, but yeah, it's still very flawed.
 
About the Ads

BabyKangaroo

10+ Year Member
Apr 15, 2008
166
3
Temporally Placed
Status
Medical Student
An 82% pass rate without a pre-screening seems like a terrible situation, compared to a pre-screen and a 98% pass rate.

Am I missing something? Anyone object? Why? You can't go back and make up for a failed COMLEX. You can pass, but the failed score remains.
No, I don't think you are missing anything. Why not right?

I had the exact same thought. These numbers probably almost always correlate. And if there is deviation, it is probably minuscule.
I agree with this, and also with the "statistician's" quotes here on this thread. Although I think it is more possible that they correlate, it is also plausible to have high pass rates and low avg. scores. With all of this being said on this thread, I gleaned one more important (albeit rather obvious) correlation worth considering. Although a school is "what you make out of it," it makes sense that the better tools (i.e. great faculty, technology, rotations, etc.) that a school has for the student to learn, the better chance one will learn it more efficiently than the other who does not have these same tools. But, in the end, as a physician, you do not have someone holding your hand while treating a patient. Just use your intelligence and best discernment among schools, work hard, don't stop learning, and never stop asking questions. You are the one that decides how well you do on the boards, and in life (and succeeding in the boards is NOT the most important thing in life, but it is definitely important :D)

With all of this said, does anyone care to post anything they may have acquired during their inteviews for prospective students to use?

 
Dec 13, 2009
1
0
Status
TOURO CA

2009 - 85.7
2008 - 88.2
2007 - 86.6

This was in a recent report - they listed national pass rates:

2009 90.2%
2008 89.6%
2007 90.0%

Someone has to lower the average I guess
 

ShyRem

I need more coffee.
Moderator Emeritus
15+ Year Member
Jun 17, 2004
9,798
130
Where I hang my hat.
Status
Attending Physician
This has been discussed before, and I believe Touro-NY had a rather low pass rate this past year. I know UNE's level 1 first time pass rate for my class (2010) was 96%... I posted it somewhere on the forums. We were top 3 in the country. Nice turn around from a few years ago when UNE's first time pass rate was 84% or so. UNE does not pre-test and does not offer a formal board prep course. Our professors give us a 1-2 hour lecture on a few select topics as a "board prep".

edit:
see these threads for a start:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=650035&highlight=comlex+pass+rate
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=661753&highlight=comlex+pass+rate

And Touro-NY pass rate as reported: 78% for class of 2011.
 
Last edited:

exPCM

Membership Revoked
Removed
10+ Year Member
Apr 12, 2006
919
6
California
Status
Attending Physician
The fact that MD and DO school USMLE and COMLEX scores are not openly posted and available for viewing is almost criminal IMHO. Students are now paying top dollar to attend these schools and this sort of information should be publicly available to students to allow them to make fully informed choices.
 
May 22, 2009
159
0
Harrogate, TN
Status
Medical Student
The fact that MD and DO school USMLE and COMLEX scores are not openly posted and available for viewing is almost criminal IMHO. Students are now paying top dollar to attend these schools and this sort of information should be publicly available to students to allow them to make fully informed choices.
:thumbup:
 

Powdermonkey

ninja doctor in training
10+ Year Member
Aug 22, 2007
2,079
1
Quick! Call a code, grab a cart!
www.osteobook.net
Status
Attending Physician
Yeah. We're going through that right now. They won't tell us how our 3rd years (first class to take the boards) did on them the first time around. I plan on having a pow wow as soon as classes are over this semester with someone. Because its crap for us to have to lay so much trust in the school and curriculum and then get nothing in return. They keep saying they dont "have all of the results in yet", which is stupid, because another 5-10 scores isnt going to skew the result that much. Plus, I need to know how much I need to study on my own next semester. At this point it looks like I'm going to be studying my ass off and not going to class so that I can do well on the boards. I'm going with the seven-oh = DO mantra next semester so I can get my board study in. We'll see....
 

Daedra22

10+ Year Member
Nov 20, 2009
781
37
Status
Attending Physician
According to TCOM's news section, they most recently had a 99% pass rate and a 536 average. I have no idea what good COMLEX scores are, though.
 

devlyyn

10+ Year Member
Jan 15, 2007
204
2
Bradenton, FL
Status
Medical Student
I agree that the data should be made available. I can understand why schools would only want to selectively reveal the information, but with tuitions what they are I think it should be otherwise. I know the current 3rd year class here at LECOM-B had a 100% first time pass rate. That is 100% of the class, not just 100% of those who took it, as I understand it. I have heard, but never officially, that the average score was in the 550s. It seems logical to me that the pass rate should correlate with average scores, but like many others have pointed out this data is not always available.
 

ejay1518

10+ Year Member
Mar 3, 2008
204
0
New York
Status
Medical Student
it is actually a law that the school has to make the board scores (the pass rate) available to their students. Our school wouldn't initially tell us our first 3rd year class board scores. but it is i believe in the AOA charter that they have to make them available to you. I'll dig up the exact reference after finals (thursday).
 

JaggerPlate

10+ Year Member
May 28, 2007
8,458
37
Status
Medical Student
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say ... who gives a ****. I guess school's can give you access to Q bank or maybe more time off for the boards or something, but I'm not sure how much this really correlates with success. Granted, I really don't know what I'm talking about as a pre-med, but I'm gonna guess that it comes down to the student and how hard they work for it. I know I'm not taking COMLEX pass rate into my decision making process whatsoever. If I want to pass/do well on COMLEX, then that is my responsibility. I'm not going to blame my school if I do poorly, nor am I going to pick one school that had 95% pass over one that had 93% pass.
 

exPCM

Membership Revoked
Removed
10+ Year Member
Apr 12, 2006
919
6
California
Status
Attending Physician
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say ... who gives a ****. I guess school's can give you access to Q bank or maybe more time off for the boards or something, but I'm not sure how much this really correlates with success. Granted, I really don't know what I'm talking about as a pre-med, but I'm gonna guess that it comes down to the student and how hard they work for it. I know I'm not taking COMLEX pass rate into my decision making process whatsoever. If I want to pass/do well on COMLEX, then that is my responsibility. I'm not going to blame my school if I do poorly, nor am I going to pick one school that had 95% pass over one that had 93% pass.
Yes - you are way out on a limb. There are schools with major differences out there. Not 93% vs 95% - more like 70% vs. 100%. I am glad however that you will succeed no matter how bad or good the track record is of the school you attend. Come back and post again after you actually take the COMLEX or USMLE and give us your valuable insights.

it is actually a law that the school has to make the board scores (the pass rate) available to their students. Our school wouldn't initially tell us our first 3rd year class board scores. but it is i believe in the AOA charter that they have to make them available to you. I'll dig up the exact reference after finals (thursday).
This is an interesting post. If there is such a law then I know from talking to colleagues that not all schools are following this law.
 
Last edited:

Laryngophed

Supratentorial problems
10+ Year Member
Sep 4, 2007
2,693
892
TDC
Status
Fellow [Any Field]
There probably isn't a law, as I imagine it would be something handled state to state (as higher education and professional licensing are done) and getting all 50 states to agree on something like that would be tough. Now, there may be an AOA guideline or bylaw, but after an admittedly brief search of their site, I found no such thing. I'm open to being corrected however.
 

exPCM

Membership Revoked
Removed
10+ Year Member
Apr 12, 2006
919
6
California
Status
Attending Physician
Here is a graph from the 2004 AACOM annual meeting:


This clearly shows that the data exists but it is being kept under wraps. Even in this presentation the school names are not given. I have heard but do not have access to the data to confirm that the gaps between the top and bottom schools are even wider today
The whole situation begs the question of "What are they trying to hide?"
Again, students paying big bucks for medical education deserve honest disclosure about student outcomes at each school.
http://www.aacom.org/events/annualmtg/past/2004/Documents/Sess19_Shen2003.pdf
 
Last edited:

JeetKuneDo

10+ Year Member
Oct 25, 2008
2,347
21
Status
Medical Student
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say ... who gives a ****. I guess school's can give you access to Q bank or maybe more time off for the boards or something, but I'm not sure how much this really correlates with success. Granted, I really don't know what I'm talking about as a pre-med, but I'm gonna guess that it comes down to the student and how hard they work for it. I know I'm not taking COMLEX pass rate into my decision making process whatsoever. If I want to pass/do well on COMLEX, then that is my responsibility. I'm not going to blame my school if I do poorly, nor am I going to pick one school that had 95% pass over one that had 93% pass.
I semi agree with you Jagger. Board scores are highly dependent on the students, but when I saw Shyrem's post about those high 70% to low 80% pass rates, it did make me wonder why some of those students didnt pass.
 

JeetKuneDo

10+ Year Member
Oct 25, 2008
2,347
21
Status
Medical Student
Also, does anyone know how DO students prep for USMLE? I remember reading somewhere that COMLEX and USMLE were similar except for the OMM portion, so USMLE studying wasn't too bad. Any thoughts?
 

JaggerPlate

10+ Year Member
May 28, 2007
8,458
37
Status
Medical Student
I semi agree with you Jagger. Board scores are highly dependent on the students, but when I saw Shyrem's post about those high 70% to low 80% pass rates, it did make me wonder why some of those students didnt pass.
Because the school accepted less motivated or capable students. I guarantee if you took a highly motivated student from the school with the highest pass rate who would pass comlex and one student from the lowest comlex pass school who is unmotivated, switched the schools, you'd still see the motivated student pass in the class where people weren't and the unmotivated student fail at COMLEX HIGH PASS COLLEGE OF OSTEOPATHIC MEDICINE (CHPCOM).
 
About the Ads