The Definitive Medical Hierarchy

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LP1CW

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Before I decided to go to medical school or even apply, I told a friend of mine, a PhD student in Psychology, that I wanted to do a PhD in clinical psychology. He said, "You'll always be less. MD is the answer. Be a psychiatrist!" I looked into it and I realized that I can get great training in a psychiatric residency and do research if I want. So, I knocked out the prerequisites for medical school, took August MCAT, and I'm applying.

He jokingly gave me this medical hierarchy, in terms of general respect, but I think he might have been serious too:

MD
DO
PhD
Dentist
Podiatrist
Physician Assistant
NP(nurse)
Technicians (Pulmonary, etc.)
Nurse (RN)
Lab Techs
Certified Nurse Assistant
Medical Secretary
Janitor
Security
CHIROPRACTOR

Thoughts? To me, a PhD is a real doctor. By European standards, an American MD is an undergraduate education. Original research was the gold standard for designation of a doctor. I'm still applying for MD programs, but I don't think PhD's are less. It's a matter of job descriptions! MD's are technicians like a plumber. The make sure the pipes are properly fitted and working.
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I've seen that rank before. It's stupid. Do the job you want to do and be happy with it.
 
MD's are technicians like a plumber.
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Wow...I believe some may disagree...but interesting nonetheless. If the top spot in the hierarchy is a plumber, then what is, say, a lab tech (nine spots down), a raw sewage taste-tester?

Chiroprator is 2 steps below janitor...damn, that's just plain mean:laugh: .
 
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Originally posted by LP1CW

Thoughts? To me, a PhD is a real doctor. By European standards, an American MD is an undergraduate education. Original research was the gold standard for designation of a doctor. I'm still applying for MD programs, but I don't think PhD's are less. It's a matter of job descriptions! MD's are technicians like a plumber. The make sure the pipes are properly fitted and working.
Click to expand...

An American PhD's training is usually more rigorous than an M.Phil (what most researchers Ive heard in Europe have). I know Europeans start med school real early compared to Americans, but how long is there length of training compared to ours?
 
premed committee below pond scum
 
Squat and Squeeze below the premed committee and pond scum. He's also below the white stuff that accumulates on your teeth when you don't brush.
 
Fair or not, that list is right on the money if you are looking at things from an MD's point of view. I might actually ammend it. Some MD's would put a PhD above a DO. I guess malpractice attorney would fall after Chiro, pond scum, retroviruses, and pathogenic bacteria.
 
Where are juris doctors on this list?
 
JD won't make the list because this list is about humans.....
 
Why don't you focus on your secondaries instead of drawing up this nonsense.
 
Originally posted by ShantanuThakur
Why don't you focus on your secondaries instead of drawing up this nonsense.
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Not everyone reading this board is applying to med school. That list is pretty accurate, though I'm not sure chiropractors should be quite that low. They're basically massage therapists with delusions of grandeur.
 
massage therapists??? They should be on the list too. I knew this little asian gal that had skills, much resolve, and no reservations. She was sort of doctor. I had pain and she met my needs. So, the list is now:

massage therapist
dancer for money
MD
DO
PhD
etc...
 
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I have a question for you guys (an honest question) were would you put foreign MD's on that list?!? (I personally think they should be on par with MD's from US) but I want to know everyone elses opinion.... by forgein I mean Caribbean mainly...
 
caribbean MD below podiatrist
 
Originally posted by ShantanuThakur
Why don't you focus on your secondaries instead of drawing up this nonsense.
Click to expand...

Why don't you get the ball rolling?
 
I would drop DO under dentist for right now. Perhaps in the future this might change as half the public thinks they are quacks, while the other half respect them more.
 
Do Physician Assistants really rank that low on the list? I have thought about being one if med school doesn't work out, but I would feel really stupid being ranked below podiatrists! Not that there's anything wrong with podiatrists, but I have heard bad things about them on the podiatry board. Do many physicians have little respect for PA's?
 
I think the list is really stupid and does no justice to many factors.
How are the professions arranged by salary? Then I'll tell you that many PhD and Dentists make about the same or even more than MDs. Moreover PHd probably graduate with a little debt or absolutely debt free while MDs will struggle with those 250 000 loans. If thelist is arranged by prestige then it even makes less sense to me. What's good of you if you have a prestigeous profession but are misarable and will spend most of life wondering what if? And even more scary is that you are going to be a doctor to just wear that white suit with MD after your name. Thats not why one becomes a doctor and I don't think I should tell anybody why one does become a doctor. I am saying this for many future "doctors to be" students who enter college already preprogrammed with what they want to be. "I am going to be a neurosergion" I hear the most common from even highschool juniors and seniors. While there is nothing wrong with that and ambition is usually a good quality. This blocks the students from descovering other possibilities.
If the list is arranged by independance and stability then MDs have none in my oppinion. The malpractice insurance is becoming worse and worse. While Dentist , Pharmacist and Chiropractors enjoy independance of their profession. There are so many factors that one must consider ,so I don't think we even should arrange these professions. Because what matters the most is that you are satisfied with that ever you choose, and you are good in your field be it MEDICINE, Podietry or Dentistry.

P.S. I couldn't come with anything exciting about Podietry. Perhaps someone has an extreme level of "foot fetish"? Especially after reading some of the posts on Pod. forum. They spend so much defending and arguing about their profession that it makes me sick.

In conclusion I want to wish everyone good luck in the admissions process and wish everyone to live up to their potential and turn out to be great PHD, Dentists, Mds, DO or what ever else you choose.

Balki
 
PhD's don't make what docs do, and Podiatry is spelled with an A. Bam.
 
PhD's don't make much. And it depends upon the discipline, a PhD in clinical psychology makes nothing. You can make more with an MBA. PhD is not the route to money.

But then again it depends on the field of study too. A PhD in English will keep you poor. A PhD in Engineering will get you a good start.

Yearly average starting salaries for all graduating PhD engineers:

Fall 2001 $74,724
Spring 2001 $74,724
Fall 2000 $81,996
Spring 2000 $59,004
Fall 1999 $59,004
Spring 1999 $65,964
Fall 1998 $67,464
Spring 1998 $67,392
Fall 1997 $52,680
Spring 1997 $52,074
www.eng.iastate.edu/ecs/employers/PhDFall2001Salary.htm

However, a PhD in human development is not so nice financially.

College of Health, Education and Human Development
Major Degree Max Salary Min Salary Avg Salary Responses

Early Childhood Education E CH ED B $28,043.00 $28,043.00 $28,043.00 1
Elementary Education EL ED B $28,000.00 $28,000.00 $28,000.00 1
Nursing NURS B $43,000.00 $39,000.00 $41,000.00 2
Parks, Recreation and Tourism Management PRTM B $33,000.00 $18,000.00 $25,500.00 2
Secondary Education (English) S ED - EN B $31,000.00 $31,000.00 $31,000.00 2

Administration and Supervision (MEd, EdS) ADM SPV M $38,000.00 $38,000.00 $38,000.00 1
Counseling and Guidance Services (MEd) C & GS M $31,000.00 $30,000.00 $30,500.00 2
Human Resource Development (MHRD) HRD M $25,000.00 $25,000.00 $25,000.00 1

Educational Leadership (PhD) ED LDRS PhD $35,000.00 $35,000.00 $35,000.00 1

Bachelors $43,000.00 $18,000.00 $31,380.00 8
Masters $38,000.00 $25,000.00 $31,000.00 4
Doctoral $35,000.00 $35,000.00 $35,000.00
:( :( :( :( :( :eek: :eek:
http://130.127.17.135/salary_surveys/2001_2002/fulltime.asp
 
Man, I would shoot myself in the head (after killing everyone at the college I went to)
If I went all the way through and got a masters degree, and then made 25 grand a year. Managers at mcDonald's make more than that :D
 
Originally posted by Teufelhunden
You pre-meds need to get a life.
Click to expand...

Haha, actually this thread is pretty bad. Of course you would expect premeds to talk about such worthless crap as a made-up hierarchy. I mean really, who cares? First of all its not definitive at all, and secondly, why does everything related to medicine always have to be broken into hierarchies?

Sounds like some people just want to pat their own pre-MD back... medicine is a team sport, and threads like this show just how naive and competitive some people can be...
 
Let me just say that whenever you are in pain, and you can go to someone and they fix it, they go straight to the top of my list. For example, if I needed a root canal and I was in so much pain, that Dentist would mean more to me than any doctor at that time. If I needed surgery, that doctor would mean more to me than any dentist who could perform a root canal. I am just saying, you need different people to specialize in different areas. If we didn't have this, let's just say we would either be really ill, or having rotting teeth, etc. Why fuss about such nonsense.
 
This is an incredibly dumb list adimred by incredibly dumb people.

Enjoy.
 
Originally posted by souljah1
This is an incredibly dumb list adimred by incredibly dumb people.

Enjoy.
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hey soldier - how far below regular med students do we rank the med students who got into good schools by claiming URM? get over yourself.

UCSF = Using Color to Secure Future
 
What's up with the attitude? Nobody likes a self righteous hard ass.
 
Originally posted by tester90024
hey soldier - how far below regular med students do we rank the med students who got into good schools by claiming URM? get over yourself.

UCSF = Using Color to Secure Future
Click to expand...
I don't blame you for being thrown off by the "souljah" username and the Haile Selaisse signature, but this dude is white. :laugh:
 
Originally posted by Street Philosopher
I don't blame you for being thrown off by the "souljah" username and the Haile Selaisse signature, but this dude is white. :laugh:
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will the real slim shady please stand up
 
Originally posted by tester90024
will the real slim shady please stand up
Click to expand...

bwahahah! rofl

That made me laugh!
 
Originally posted by tester90024
hey soldier - how far below regular med students do we rank the med students who got into good schools by claiming URM? get over yourself.

UCSF = Using Color to Secure Future
Click to expand...

Wow. Brilliance. So, a white guy who likes reggae and quoted a prominent (albeit deceased) African man got into medical school as a result of some conspiracy theory? News to me. I guess that middle class white background really was all it took to get into UCSF. Hell, I guess that is how I got into undergrad and grad school too. Your sweeping statement about my fellow classmates is one only a boy behind a computer could make. Your belief is racist. It basically says that 'colored' people who attend UCSF only got in b/c of their color. That is pretty sad. If you knew my classmates, you would know that they are amazingly qualified academically to be sitting in the seat they sit in day in and day out. Only fools lean on their own misunderstandings. You really should do a little bit more thinking before you babble garbage.
 
Originally posted by souljah1
Wow. Brilliance. So, a white guy who likes reggae and quoted a prominent (albeit deceased) African man got into medical school as a result of some conspiracy theory? News to me. I guess that middle class white background really was all it took to get into UCSF. Hell, I guess that is how I got into undergrad and grad school too. Your sweeping statement about my fellow classmates is one only a boy behind a computer could make. Your belief is racist. It basically says that 'colored' people who attend UCSF only got in b/c of their color. That is pretty sad. If you knew my classmates, you would know that they are amazingly qualified academically to be sitting in the seat they sit in day in and day out. Only fools lean on their own misunderstandings. You really should do a little bit more thinking before you babble garbage.
Click to expand...

i'm sorry mama i never meant to hurt you
 
California banned the use of race in admissions in 1996. Everyone at UCSF is there because of their merit.......except for legacies, briberies and kids named Geffen.
 
One important point is that the initial post on the thread was regarding a Ph.D. in clinical psychology. The truth is that a lot of clinical psychologists find themselves in the rather undesirable position of screening patients that are looking to see an MD for a prescription for the drug of the week they saw advertised on TV. The fact that the hierarchy is based on BS just suggests that as a clinical psychologist, you may run the risk of playing second fiddle to an MD who is in fact far less qualified to treat patients. Anyone who has ever been in the unfortunate position of working in a situation where your power to do your job is usurped by a ***** knows that it will make you miserable. The truth is that I've known at least two clinical psychologists that were more knowledgeable and competent than at least two of the psychiatrists that I've met.
 
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The big draw back about being a psychiatrist is that I'll probably get a lot less training in psychodynamic theories. People will argue that you shouldn't consider money when it comes to entering the medical profession, but the pay differential between and MD and PhD in clinical psychology is huge. And getting a PhD in clinical psychology is nearly impossible at a large university with funding. They get hundreds of applications for like 5 spots. You have to have a 3.9 and 700's on your GRE's. And at some schools, not based on the boulder model of psychology, you won't get a stipend. I'd say it's harder to get into a PhD in clinical psychology than it is to get into medical school. But that doesn't negate the fact that MD's get more respect and money.

In truth: I want to help people. I'm drawn to psychology. And psychiatry makes the most sense. PhD's will always be answering to MD's in clinical settings. ALthough, I recognize that many PhDs are far superior to Medical Docs. BUt we live in a world where money matters. And I don't want to be getting paid less, less respect, and doing the same work for less. And PhD's are being used less and less in clinical settings because they can use master level clinicians to do counseling.

Just my thoughts
 
Originally posted by Teufelhunden
You pre-meds need to get a life.
Click to expand...

Go back to your hell-hole otherwise known as "Everyone" Forum.:D
 
Yeah these pre-allo kiddies wouldn't last a day in Everyone.
 
Originally posted by DAL
Go back to your hell-hole otherwise known as "Everyone" Forum.:D
Click to expand...

Actually, I'm one of those who always clicks "View New Posts"

I have no allegiance to any forum, however, pre-allo can be pretty bad. It can be entertaining from time to time, though ;)
 
You forgot to put "medical students" at the very bottom of the barrel.
 
Originally posted by raining4days
You forgot to put "medical students" at the very bottom of the barrel.
Click to expand...

I think "pre-med students who anonymously disparage by ranking health care professionals" belong at the bottom of the barrel. :p
 
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