The differences between allopathic (MD) and osteopathic (DO) medicine?

[Cheisu]

Can someone explain in detail what the differences between allopathic and osteopathic medicine is?

Note: I am 100% sure I am going into allopathic medicine (MD), I was just interested in what the difference is.

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[ZagDoc]

Search is your friend. Know the search. Love the search. Be the search.

 

[spicedmanna]

Search is your friend. Know the search. Love the search. Be the search.

Yup.

Also, here is the FAQ from the pre-osteo forum:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=240220

Another resource:

https://www.do-online.org/

In a nutshell and hugely oversimplifying the matter for the sake of brevity, there isn't much difference in practice between the two designations. Both are complete physicians, have equivalent training, and have identical practice rights in the US. The differences are primarily historical at this point in time. One of the most distinguishable differences is that DO students are taught osteopathic manipulative medicine in medical school, an additional modality for diagnosis and treatment. Everything else is pretty much indestinguishable.

 

[Flopotomist]

The biggest difference is that allopathic students got into something towards the top of their list, and the DOs didn't.

(now let me run and hide for cover after sticking a stick into the bee hive and stirring it up)

 

[spicedmanna]

The biggest difference is that allopathic students got into something towards the top of their list, and the DOs didn't.

(now let me run and hide for cover after sticking a stick into the bee hive and stirring it up)

Actually, there are many reasons for choosing an osteopathic medical school; it is, for some, a complex decision, not necessarily related to academic factors, although for some it is. For example, some folks have families and might have certain regional considerations. Others may desire a medical education that includes integrated training in OMM. When choosing which medical school to attend, both the medical school and the potential matriculant are looking for the best fit. Hopefully, when folks land on the school they wish to attend, it is well-thought out choice and not by default.

Realize that when you ask this sort of question in an allopathic forum, you are going to get a predominately allopathic-centric point of view. The truth is that there isn't going to be very much visible difference in practice between the two designations; both types of physicians practice to the same standard of care. Anyway, I highly recommend "The DOs" by Gevitz, if you are interested in a good historical analysis.

 

[Powdermonkey]

Dont you have to have your licensed and bonded witchcraft certification to practice DO medicine though? At least in the lower 48?

 

[Cataract]

Come on folks, let's not do this again...

 

[greg1184]

lol

 

[chizledfrmstone]

I pulled a few links from wikipeida--perhaps these will give you some ideas:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_allopathic_and_osteopathic_medicine#Licensure
http://www.med.nyu.edu/patientcare/library/article.html?ChunkIID=37409
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteopathic_Medicine

^ That might help.

 

[Powdermonkey]

Come on folks, let's not do this again...

Or was that just in Puerto Rico..... I can never keep it straight. What about the fact that DOs cant practice their witchcraft anywhere other than in the US. Other nations dont honor the degree, but they will honor MD quackary, right?

 

[patrickd223]

Osteopathic medicine tends to take a more holistic approach. For instance, I once visited a voodoo hut and the DO sacrificed a pig to the medicine god. But seriously, there is no difference.

 

[eddie13231]

Osteopathic medicine tends to take a more holistic approach. For instance, I once visited a voodoo hut and the DO sacrificed a pig to the medicine god. But seriously, there is no difference.

Hehe...that was seriously funny!

 

[GreenShirt]

Ah, you gotta love future doctors that make themselves feel good by putting down other people based on their own ignorance. Make sure you bring out those qualities during your interview. You'll all be a hit!

 

[Dr.Pdizzle]

Every time someone starts one of these threads, a few DO supporters respond that the DO choice is the same as MD except slightly better because of OMM, then some MD supporter adds his or her snarky remark about the taboo DO admissions standards, and then the DO faithful come out of the woodwork to refute such claims and a flamefest ensues, which is shortly followed by a mod closing the thread.

So far:
1)DO comes in to explain that MD = DO + extra goodies *check*
2)Snarky MD comment about DOs *check*
3)DO faithful coming to support their decision, most of whom were accepted to MD schools and chose not to go to Johns Hopkins because of their belief in cranial osteopathy *in progress*
4)Flamefest *coming shortly*
5)Locking of thread *TBD*

So far, this thread is right on track. This should get interesting.

 

[Gut Shot]

Can someone explain in detail what the differences between allopathic and osteopathic medicine is?

Note: I am 100% sure I am going into allopathic medicine (MD), I was just interested in what the difference is.

A revised list:

1. There are 125 accredited allopathic schools and 23 osteopathic ones. DO penetration is variable by region. In Louisiana, for instance, much of the patient population will assume that you massage bones for a living (and not in a prostitution sense).

2. DOs learn OMM, whereas MDs do not. Most practicing DOs use OMM little or none.

3. Allopathic medical students have established clinical rotations through affiliated hospitals and clinics. Osteopathic schools are not required to have such affiliations, so some do, others don't. If you're at a school where they don't, the clinical educations is more of a "do it yourself" system. My M3 year was turn key from start to finish. My osteo friends and colleagues were literally like gypsy nomads, moving from city to city, crashing with friends, etc. Your experience will vary greatly depending on your chosen DO school.

4. Five states require DOs to do a year of rotating clinical internship before they can pursue residency in that state.

5. DOs take the COMLEX and MDs take the USMLE. Unless the DOs in question want to pursue an allopathic residency, in which case they will most likely have to take the USMLE in addition to the COMLEX. If you revel in the opportunity to take as many massive, crushing exams as possible (and at great expense), this will be right up your alley.

6. DO schools tend to have a greater emphasis on primary care. There are exceptions. MD schools have greater variance.

7. While this information changes almost monthly, there are about 543 osteopathic residency programs offering training in 49 specialties and subspecialties. There are over 7,000 allopathic residency programs offering training in 90 specialties and subspecialties. You do the math. Furthermore, it is my understanding that while new osteopathic schools are being opened with some rapidity, there has not been a corresponding increase in osteopathic residency spots to accomodate them. Hence, osteopathic competition for allopathic residencies is likely to increase.

8. If you change your mind down the road and want to pursue a more competitive specialty, you'll have greater opportunities and an easier match coming from an allopathic school. See #7.

 

[spicedmanna]

Every time someone starts one of these threads, a few DO supporters respond that the DO choice is the same as MD except slightly better because of OMM, then some MD supporter adds his or her snarky remark about the taboo DO admissions standards, and then the DO faithful come out of the woodwork to refute such claims and a flamefest ensues, which is shortly followed by a mod closing the thread.

So far:
1)DO comes in to explain that MD = DO + extra goodies *check*
2)Snarky MD comment about DOs *check*
3)DO faithful coming to support their decision, most of whom were accepted to MD schools and chose not to go to Johns Hopkins because of their belief in cranial osteopathy *in progress*
4)Flamefest *coming shortly*
5)Locking of thread *TBD*

So far, this thread is right on track. This should get interesting.

There are a few errors in your statement above (e.g., nobody said that DO was "slightly better because of OMM" and MD != DO + extra goodies, as you suggest, but rather they are professionally equivalent degrees with historical differences, whereby DO's receive additional training in OMM), but you have the right idea. That's why we need to go back to posts 2 and 3: do a search, as this topic has been discussed and argued about excessively, and read the FAQ's.

Also, we need to keep in mind that MD vs. DO threads are unproductive, as you suggest. MD vs. DO flaming is not tolerated.

 

[PilSeungKorea]

MD's prestige >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DO's prestige.

Other than that, there aren't much differences

 

[GreenShirt]

MD's prestige >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DO's prestige.

Other than that, there aren't much differences

And after all, medicine is all about prestige.

 

[Dienekes]

At least among premeds...things would be so much simpler if people could just post pictures of their genitalia for comparison. After all, these threads are just the SDN equivalent of a dick measuring contest.

 

[Bacchus]

And after all, medicine is all about prestige.

What happened to the ability to help?

 

[Bacchus]

MD's prestige >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DO's prestige.

Other than that, there aren't much differences

Because an MD walks into a room and his/her mere presence cures the patient whereas the DO walks into the room and a pre-emptive code blue is called. Give me a break... do your research.

 

[spicedmanna]

At least among premeds...things would be so much simpler if people could just post pictures of their genitalia for comparison. After all, these threads are just the SDN equivalent of a dick measuring contest.

Agree.

 

[Powdermonkey]

Because an MD walks into a room and his/her mere presence cures the patient whereas the DO walks into the room and a pre-emptive code blue is called. Give me a break... do your research.

Well, it takes longer for the DO to setup. After all, fires dont start themselves and water doesnt just boil no matter how good of a voodoo man you are. That takes time my dear friend. Plus looking through the book-O-chants will consume other precious time.


Dude, seriously OP, go do a search. Even on google. If you are ignorant and lazy enough that you wont do this, its not our problem.

As for you other naysayers:

1. Yes MD>DO in regards to recognition and prestige in some parts of the country.
2. Regardless of what uneducated ignorant people think, a DO can be a good doctor just like an MD can
3. DOs actually learn more in school b/c of OMM. Will they use it? Perhaps. But its a different outlook on solving the same problem, why is that a bad thing?
4. Guess what, at the end of the day, anyone wanna guess what you are called? Dr.
5. Just because you are an MD, doesnt mean you will be any better of a doctor. But keep dreaming, its funny really.


I'm not trying to say which is better, or hurt any ones feelings. But honestly, DOs can make great doctors. MDs can make great doctors. They have their subtle differences in training, but if they are so different, why are DOs even allowed to practice here in the states like MDs are? Yes the residency spots, blah blah blah, I know. But if you arent competitive as an MD, you wont get into a spot any easier than a DO will.

But anyways, flame on. Ill just sit back here and watch.

 

[Nasem]

these types of threads always crack me up, they always turn into a flame war, I never NEVER seen a DO vs MD thread that ended nicely... never

Cheisu ~ besides the REAL difference between DO and MDs, you have to also evaluate your situation, Even though there are 125 MD schools, they are extremely competitive and its mostly a numbers game, if you got the right numbers, your chances of getting in are better, if you have crappy numbers, maybe you should look into the DO route more often.

I don't say this to degrade DO schools or anything of that sort, but DO schools are a little more forgiving on things like undergrad GPA....also thier system calculates GPAs differently (differently meaning in a more helpful way)

One more thing, a question about DO vs MD is best answerd by actual doctors, not pre-meds, most of us don't really know what the hell is going on.... I used to think DO vs MD was only a philosophical difference, I was wrong! Its a little more complicated than that, for instance, matching into some of the higher tier residencies (like ~ dermatology, optamalogy, radiology, etc) might be a little tougher for a DO....

 

[Powdermonkey]

Its a little more complicated than that, for instance, matching into some of the higher tier residencies (like ~ dermatology, optamalogy, radiology, etc) might be a little tougher for a DO....

Why??? As a DO you have twice as many possibilities. You can apply for both DO and MD residencies. I would think it would be harder for MDs in that respect.

Its tough as **** either way you want to look at it. Just like getting in is.

 

[Nasem]

Why??? As a DO you have twice as many possibilities. You can apply for both DO and MD residencies. I would think it would be harder for MDs in that respect.

Its tough as **** either way you want to look at it. Just like getting in is.

Its not exactly like that, It may sound like a DO has more options than an MD because they get to double dip with both residencies, however, majority of the higher tier allopathic programs "perfer" to accept an MD applicant over a DO (granted they both have same USMLE scores)..... but then again, what do I know, Im just a pre-med....... Besides, that means you have to actually study for both the COMLEX and USMLE, I dunno about you folks, but I HATE taking more standardized exams than needed

I wish some of you DO / MD residents can discuss this further with us.... Also, if someone has some statistics showing the %ages of DO and MDs getting into the same specialties / subspecialties and what kind of USMLE scores were obtained from both.

 

[Powdermonkey]

Well, I didnt say it was easy for a DO to get into an MD residency, I just said that the possibility was there. Like I said before though, if you have good scores on the COMLEX/USMLE, regardless of what you are, you will get into a good spot.

All I was saying.

 

[Gut Shot]

Why??? As a DO you have twice as many possibilities. You can apply for both DO and MD residencies. I would think it would be harder for MDs in that respect.

Unfortunately, you're incorrect. If you have, say, a 70% chance of acceptance at one program you're better off than if you have a 5% chance of acceptance at each of five programs. Allopathic residencies will, by and large, demonstrate preference for allopathic applicants. As a whole this more than overcomes the apparent DO advantage.

 

[Powdermonkey]

Unfortunately, you're incorrect. If you have, say, a 70% chance of acceptance at one program you're better off than if you have a 5% chance of acceptance at each of five programs. Allopathic residencies will, by and large, demonstrate preference for allopathic applicants. As a whole this more than overcomes the apparent DO advantage.

Hmmm... I see. I wasnt really thinking numbers, since I didnt know any. But I agree with what you are saying. Especially since you are through it all and in residency now.

 

[PT2MD]

If this thread had vitals, what would they be?

 

[JaggerPlate]

MD's prestige >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DO's prestige.

Other than that, there aren't much differences

Thanks for your five post imput Pil!! That's the prestige I'm talkin' bout!!!

If this thread had vitals ... it would be so many steps beyond flatline that the family of the thread would already have buried and mourned their loss.

You wanna know the real difference? Pre-MD students think DO isn't as good!!! (note the PRE)

 

[bellacnella]

Thanks for your five post imput Pil!! That's the prestige I'm talkin' bout!!!

If this thread had vitals ... it would be so many steps beyond flatline that the family of the thread would already have buried and mourned their loss.

You wanna know the real difference? Pre-MD students think DO isn't as good!!! (note the PRE)

Thats because this thread is

Nowadays I don't think that there is much difference, AND if there is there shouldn't be.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Thats because this thread is

Nowadays I don't think that there is much difference, AND if there is there shouldn't be.

Agreed. This thread is offically LOCKED ... this thread is LOCKED ... LOCKED, LOCKEDDDD. Damn, thought maybe if I tried hard enough, I could do it.

Maybe someday ...

 

[Powdermonkey]

JaggerPlate, I just laughed out loud. So many steps beyond flatline... hahahahaha, thats grand. I love it. Completely agree with the PRE problems of MD vs. DO.

 

[amolamedicina]

Note: I am 100% sure I am going into allopathic medicine (MD), I was just interested in what the difference is.

I mean if you are 100% you are going allopathic, why would you even ask? It is so easy to type MD vs DO and press SEARCH. I am sure a lot will come up. I also don't know how anyone can be 100% sure of anything. Is it that you already received an acceptance into an allopathic medical school? How can you be so sure you are even going to get an interview, let alone get accepted??

 

[UCDavisdude]

over 40%of DO's enter allo residencies.so the possibilities r there for DO's.

 

[osli]

Anyone know of a summary of AOA residency spots per specialty, number of DO applicants per year for each, and total number of DO graduates per year, and the same for allopathic residencies?

I've always been curious how the actual percentages worked out. I know there are a hell of a lot more allopathic residencies, but there are also a hell of a lot more graduates. With 40% DO's choosing to go allopathic, what do the numbers really look like?

I could care less about yet another debate on entrance stats or how difficult being an ER doc is going to be for a DO grad, but I would be interested in looking at the numbers.

 

[bishr]

I don't see what the big deal is!! If people want to express their views (in a constructive manner) on the differences, be they real or perceived, of allopathic vs. osteopathic... then let them do their thing.

I have seen these threads over and over and over and over again, and you know what... I still enjoy reading other peoples perspectives and viewpoints.

D.O. VS. M.D. forums will never leave us, so get used to it ppl.
If you cannot beat 'em, join 'em.

Long live the D.O. vs M.D. discussion forum

 

[Bacchus]

I don't see what the big deal is!! If people want to express their views (in a constructive manner) on the differences, be they real or perceived, of allopathic vs. osteopathic... then let them do their thing.

I have seen these threads over and over and over and over again, and you know what... I still enjoy reading other peoples perspectives and viewpoints.

D.O. VS. M.D. forums will never leave us, so get used to it ppl.
If you cannot beat 'em, join 'em.

Long live the D.O. vs M.D. discussion forum

Most of the forums provide entertainment at the very best. Of 50 or so posts, maybe a quarter will actually be informative. And thats becoming less because people are sick of expelling hot air to thickheaded people.

 

[Nasem]

over 40%of DO's enter allo residencies.so the possibilities r there for DO's.

That is true, but its totally misleading.... MOST of those 40% DOs went into allopathic lower tier residencies (like pediatrics / internal medicine / etc); I am willing to bet only a handful made into the highly competitive residencies.

Yesterday, I was reading an article written by a DO medical advisor (I wish I remember the link), he said majority of his students (when he said majority, he actually meant ALL) who applied to allopathic dermatology residencies, NONE of them made it.... he even went on to saying some of them kids were scoring 235+ on USMLE 1....

My opinion is, for us pre-meds, it doesn't matter much if we go MD or DO, since they both provide medical educations, but the problems start when you finish your M3 and M4 and decide on a residency, your options are more limited as a DO applicant

 

[Pansit]

That is true, but its totally misleading.... MOST of those 40% DOs went into allopathic lower tier residencies (like pediatrics / internal medicine / etc); I am willing to bet only a handful made into the highly competitive residencies.

Yesterday, I was reading an article written by a DO medical advisor (I wish I remember the link), he said majority of his students (when he said majority, he actually meant ALL) who applied to allopathic dermatology residencies, NONE of them made it.... he even went on to saying some of them kids were scoring 235+ on USMLE 1....

My opinion is, for us pre-meds, it doesn't matter much if we go MD or DO, since they both provide medical educations, but the problems start when you finish your M3 and M4 and decide on a residency, your options are more limited as a DO applicant

Yeah...but how many of those students ended up in the Osteopathic dermatology match...you would be a fool to skip the DO match over the MD match knowing that you have a greater shot at DO with 10x less competition. (remember, if match DO you have to take it...the risk is skipping the DO match and competing into a field with 10x more applicants). What DO capable of matching at an Osteoptathic Neurosurgery residency for example would skip that chance, to apply to an allopathic one that will be way more competitive (US MD's, IMG's, US IMGS..etc). Of course the majority of DO's who do match allopathic will be in less competitive fields because the competitive students probably did not forgo the Osteopathic match to get into competitive residencies. Remember, any residency you do will allow you to get a license to practice in that particular field...

 

[osli]

MOST of those 40% DOs went into allopathic lower tier residencies

Most MD graduates go into lower tier allopathic residencies as well, so what does that prove? That all medical schools put out more ER, family practice, and internal medicine residents than anything else? Surprise, surprise!

I do agree that DO students have an especially steep hill to climb when attempting to match into some allo residencies... even steeper than the MD students (as if the hill weren't steep enough). Integrated plastics... not going to happen. Dermatology... tough tough road. Ophthalmology... pretty danged tough. Ortho... very tough since DO's have a relatively easy time matching ortho on the DO side of things. ENT is pretty tough but doable. RadOnc is tough for everyone, but especially so for DO's wanting to go allopathic.

And then there are a lot of competitive specialties where DO's have a steeper hill, but the challenge doesn't seem that insurmountable. Every year plenty match into allo rads, gas, surgery, uro, etc. I think there is self selection in the process... applicants who know they are very strong apply and match. Those who are borderline stay in the DO match. If you are a solid candidate wanting to enter one of those fields, you can find an allo residency.

 

[LadyWolverine]

That is true, but its totally misleading.... MOST of those 40% DOs went into allopathic lower tier residencies (like pediatrics / internal medicine / etc); I am willing to bet only a handful made into the highly competitive residencies.

I love, love, looooooooooooooooove when pre-meds talk about residency choices as though they have any idea what they were talking about. When I was in college, I didn't even know what a residnecy entailed. Now I'm an MS2, and I honestly think I know even less about the entire process then before. Yet, nowadays, pre-meds seem to believe that pediatrics and IM are "lower tier" residencies, simply because they read somethingsomewhereonce that said, you need a 250 USMLE for specialty X, and 195 for specialty Y. This is a really, really silly approch. Why does everyone seem base the success of a medical school on how many graduates get into derm or radiology? IM and Peds are both fantastic specialties, and attract many of the best and brightest applicants. Even Harvard *GASP* matches people in Peds and IM every year - does this mean that they are lower tier applicants? It's more likely that the "competitive specialties" weren't what they wanted out of life.

I'm not defending DOs - I think that people make their own way, and if they prove themselves worthy, then it doesn't really matter how they got there. But I couldn't resist the opportunity to school an ill-informed pre-med

 

[tiburones]

why won't this thread die?

 

[Nasem]

LadyWolverine ~
you've misunderstood me completely, when I say lower tier, I wasn't implying that only the low scoring folks can get into them, I was saying that the lower tier residencies are NOT AS COMPETITIVE as something, say, dermatology.

Hence, low tier = not as competitive …

 

[Dienekes]

why won't this thread die?

*looks around* Oh, I forgot to turn off the vent.

 

[Bacchus]

*looks around* Oh, I forgot to turn off the vent.

 

[foreverLaur]

Regardless of the type of doctor you visit/shadow some day, if the doctor didnt have MD or DO on his/her nametag, you'd never be able to tell whether it should be an MD or DO.

Heck, I have two friends in med school, one in each MD and DO. Thus far, they have taken the same courses and used the same textbooks.