The DO magazine, May Issue: Gay & Lesiban DOs

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by bth7, May 10, 2008.

  1. bth7

    bth7 It's worth it in the end . . .

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    Howdy osteopathic folks,

    Interesting article in this months issue of the The DO magazine.

    For those of you that remember or read about the events at Touro in Sept 2006, it seems an administrator has finally made a public comment about that unfortunate time.

    Here's some old threads from that time:


    Discussion? What's your take on this article? Minority health care disparities? or LGBT issues within Osteopathic medicine?

    bth
     
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  3. DrMidlife

    DrMidlife has an opinion

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    I think there are two things that can impact the security of LGBTs in school and in the field, and one that can't.

    Having the equivalent of an LGBT lobby, that exposes incidents and puts pressure on policy makers, can only help the situation. So I think we need to continue to have guardians with the balls to make themselves known and heard.

    The thing that won't help is to attempt to legislate or coerce individuals to change their attitudes. I think that the most you can expect from folks who don't want LGBT issues brought up is that they might actually read the article, and get really pissed off by it. Meanwhile, I think people tend to feel attacked when a challenging viewpoint is presented with any heavy-handedness. We'd get nowhere telling people to change what they view as their value system. By contrast, while homophobes will grumble at an inclusive policy statement, they don't necessarily have to change their stance in following the policy.

    Bottom line, what I've seen that changes minds is personal experience. When your kid comes out, when your brother comes out, etc. It's getting a lot more difficult, from what I see, for a family member or friend to choose to be an ******* about it. Even Cheney is somewhat protective of his own. The easier it is for kids and adults to come out with assured safety, the more straights will have the personal experience that breaks the fear and the stereotyping.
     
  4. bth7

    bth7 It's worth it in the end . . .

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    Agreed. But how would one possible "legislate or coerce individuals to change their attitudes" even if one wanted to ? I mean, passing a law that would make killing a gay person in a hate crime illegal is a deterrent to hate crime, but its not exactly coercion.

    I think the Civil Rights movement changed people's attitudes about race relations as well as the laws that governed race in America. But it happened slowly, with a lot of action on the part of many groups and individuals.

    I think similar actions are part of the process of the LGBT civil rights movement.

    Thoughts?

    bth
     
  5. Founder

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    I'm more apathetic to the issue and think people should be treated respectfully. But I will tell you that calling people "homophobes" and the negative connotation associated with that word as an insult will get you no friends. It is counter productive and it immediately creates defensive walls where the homosexuals will see the "homophobes" as being bigots while the "homophobes" will see the homosexuals directly trying to destroy their value and moral system. Both sides are wrong in their perception of the other but both sides are reacting to the negativity of the other.

    bth7: As for making hate crimes, like all hate crimes once you begin to legislate thought you get into dangerous territory. To sound cliched, it is Big Brother type of legislation that only produces animosity. Killing a homosexual, an Asian, a South African, a Muslim, a Christian, a Saudi, a Briton, etc. should all get the same penalty as it is the action which should be punished.

    Any legislation giving one particular group a leg up or extra protection is hypocritical. It's an insult to the idea of equality when one group becomes more equal than others and is more protected than others.
     
  6. TomC727

    TomC727 Member

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    I had to add this since it reminded me of him.

    In the words of Mancow, a former radio host in Chicago

    "You don't want equal, you want special."
     
  7. DrMidlife

    DrMidlife has an opinion

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    Ah. Adding "homophobe" to my "too heavy-handed" list.
     
  8. DocJulez

    DocJulez Awesome Canadian

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    what i'm surprised about is that ppl are shocked when someone comes outta the closet.
    seriously? still?

    like its medschool.....not robot school. people are still people there and all of them will have different beliefs and different orientations. i just find it odd that the medical community seems to think they've got a squeeky clean image and nothing is "different" within it.

    yes i'm well aware i'm over-exaggerating, but its true. anti-gay quotes from the bible? wow. sorry to break the news to some of these ppl, but they're gonna be gay whether you like it or not, so why pass judgement on them? its not ur life, it doesnt affect you.

    i find that that topic even had to be discussed in DO mag shows its quite a situation, and in my opinion it shouldnt be. i guess that may be the canada talking.....after all, gay marriage is legal here.
    come on USA, catch up!

    wow. thats all i can say. wow
     
  9. NYCOM2010

    NYCOM2010 Keepin' It Real

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    Haha, gotta love that word homophobe. Maybe people just don't give a crap what you are and would rather not hear it. For that kid with the "national coming out day" It took him over 20 years to come out, and it had to be done for his medical class to see on the class notes? Inappropriate without question. Before I get classified as “being a homophobe” one of a my friends is actually gay, omg! But you know what? You can tell by the way he acts/talks, but he doesn’t run around and promote his sexuality because he knows that we don’t want to hear it, we don’t care, and we don’t judge him on it. If you've gotta prove something then well...

    [​IMG]
     
  10. zmeister22

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    You have a friend that's actually gay? Good for you. Gotta love your "I'm not racist because I know and talk to black people" argument. Just because you are friends with someone doesn't mean too much.

    Promoting? Whatever. It's not like it's a job fair.

    I guess you have never had the experience of roommates telling you they will kill you if your "faggy ***" ever comes back to the dorms (apartment style with private bedrooms), or have guys tell you they will kick your *** if you ever come back to the school gym (no... not the showers; I was on the treadmill and they freaked out because I was there to "check them out"), or had people who in one breath talk about how they are applying to the same medical school as you and in the next talk about what "fags" they wanna "f*** up" or the bitches and hos and dot-headed indian chicks that run the biology department.

    I'm not trying to strike up a parade and prance in everyone's face. I'm just letting you know crap like this happens, quite frequently, even in the professional realm of medicine and business.
     
  11. bth7

    bth7 It's worth it in the end . . .

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    I hear you, but there's another viewpoint to this equation. The message that we are sending in our society about people who are different is problematic.

    This is one example of why this issue matters so much to me:

    [YOUTUBE]QcMEL3_YsVI[/YOUTUBE]

    bth
     
  12. zmeister22

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  13. Dave C

    Dave C T78 POWER

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    whats the link to this magazine?
     
  14. NYCOM2010

    NYCOM2010 Keepin' It Real

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    are you sure about that?
    think those type of people have friend(s) who are gay. Again see above post
    thats fine and the people that do are part of the problem. Look I have no problem with you getting your message out, however a time and a place exist for it and medical school notes are not part of it. Its called professionalism.
    i blame parenting plain and simple. I'm not gonna say that some people are more tolerant that others because that word is bull$**** in itself. Its understanding that others are different, NOT tolerance.
     
  15. bth7

    bth7 It's worth it in the end . . .

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  17. Founder

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    With the Ellen videos it is clear there are a lot of misperception on both sides. Ellen had the video with the OK state representative. While I think the rep was a bit over the top I think the problem here is two fold.

    There are problems in both camps because both see the other as trying to assault their way of life. Nothing is going to be accomplished if homosexuals aggressively push an acceptance policy and nothing will be accomplished if traditionalists sit back and ignore that the world is not always traditional.

    Personally I feel everyone is equal. No one is more equal than anyone else and should be free to pursue a relationship which is not harmful to anyone.

    I also perceive that some homosexuals seem to push a "victim card". The article in The DO was unnecessary, in my opinion, and is trying to make an issue out of what should be a non-issue. A professional is not going to make an issue of someone's sexuality in the work place. Also with the Mancow quote if people play a victim card then they are going to be perceived as wanting special attention.

    Why doesn't Ellen do a segment on someone driving a BMW being carjacked for driving a BMW? Someone driving a BMW is going to be unfairly targeted if everyone else drives a Ford Taurus.

    The point of that is that there are many people who are victimized in crimes for some reason which sets them apart from others. From the gang bangers wearing red instead of green in LA to the rich family being burglarized instead of the less rich family down the street. Neither group is more special and once you make special laws to protect a certain group all it does is produce more division.
     
  18. It'sElectric

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    I just wanted to make a quick comment in regards to all of this. I believe that there certainly is a contingency of people who continue to oppress, abuse, and even do far worse things to gays, minorities, females, etc. (and there very likely always will be...which is quite unfortunate).

    Nevertheless, I think most people here can agree that our country, the great melting pot that it is, has come an exponentially long way over the past 40+ years. Just as Ellen's audience members were appalled and disgusted by Mrs. Kern's comments, you can be damn certain that the vast majority of our population would react similarly. We will never get to a point where we're all holding hands across America, but I do believe that tolerance, acceptance, and understanding are currently winning out big time.

    My final point, complacency will certainly kill you, but at the same time (as others have alluded to), there is a fine line where a group or individual can overstep their boundaries and come off as "pushy". I am in no way saying that's what is currently happening, but I can't help but fear it may get to that, resulting in a backlash that would set our country back decades.
     
  19. cyclohexanol

    cyclohexanol No, no. Doggie afuera.
    Physician

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    orly?
    http://www.dailybulletin.com/ci_8105082

    And you're right, it should be a non-issue, but it apparently is not...
     
  20. DragonWell

    Moderator Emeritus

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    I'm guessing you haven't spent much time in the southern USA lately...
     
  21. Founder

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  22. zmeister22

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    Yes, I completely agree with you. Everyone should be treated equally. The problem is, they are not. Just because something should be a non-issue is far from saying that it is a non-issue. I am not just speaking about gays and lesbians, but about any group that is singled out for discrimination or violence. Stating that you believe something should be one way and therefore it is that way is, to a point, foolish. Ignoring something does not making it go away. No need to hit the warpath for every social injustice, but just realize that these things happen. Notice how many times jew jokes are made, black jokes, dumb blonde women jokes, etc are made and how openly people laugh at them.

    Also, try to be a little less inclusive in your language. You use terms like "homosexuals do this", "gays play ...". Sweeping generalizations like the ones you make really reinforce the negative stereotypes. I personally don't play the victim card at all. It's kind of hard to do that at 6' and 215 solid pounds.

    I laughed out loud about your BMW and Ford Taurus analogy. Killing a teenager because they are gay vs. stealing a BMW. Definitely on the same level :laugh:.
     
  23. DocJulez

    DocJulez Awesome Canadian

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    on the contrary,
    been down there quite a bit lately, well aware of the differences across the different states. yes, Ohio and Cali are two different places blah blah blah. i was merely stating the fact that just about every person i know has a similar viewpoint as i do and Canada DOES have legalized gay marriage. correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure even the southern states havent quite made it there yet.

    agreed.............two COMPLETELY different playing fields.
     
  24. Founder

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    The car really wasn't meant as a comparison to murder but just to illustrate people are singled out for a variety of reasons. So I am not trying to downplay what happened with the poor kid who was murdered. I apologize if it came out that way but that is not what I meant from that at all.
     
  25. alixbd

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    My heart always beats a little faster when I start in on threads like this one. I was glad to read in this one though that most were able to keep the conversation level-headed and cordial. I am part of the LGBT crowd, but I'm also more of a live and let-live type of person (I know many in the crowd would be critical of this).

    Anyway, I just wanted to post. I'm glad that I'm entering a community that (for the most part) can accept me in all my "difference."
     
  26. bth7

    bth7 It's worth it in the end . . .

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    Has anyone received a hard copy of this months issue with this article in it, in the mail?

    bth
     
  27. box29

    box29 Keep on keepin' on Member

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    Not yet...
     
  28. TexasTriathlete

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    I've been on pre-osteo a lot, and I was wondering how discrimination "stacked"

    That is, we already have DO discrimination, where it is nearly impossible for a DO to match into most residency programs. What about a gay DO? Or a gay, black DO? Any chance at anything but family practice in Alaska?
     
  29. zmeister22

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    I personally know several african-american, atheist, one-legged, gay, dwarf DOs serving as orthodermaradiologists that are in the top 5% for pay an only work 6 hours/mo.
     
  30. bth7

    bth7 It's worth it in the end . . .

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    A few examples as to why this issue matters to me:


    Just food for thought to take this issue out of the abstract and into the real world.

    bth
     
  31. lilzelda2

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    LGBT Rating System For Hospitals
    by The Associated Press

    Posted: May 13, 2008 - 7:30 am ET
    (New York City) Just over half of 88 hospitals got top marks under a new rating system created by two national gay-rights organizations which hope the standards will result in more compassionate treatment of gay and lesbian patients.
    Policies addressed in the ratings include patient nondiscrimination, visitation and decision-making rights for partners, diversity training for staff, and nondiscriminatory employment practices.
    The hospitals participated voluntarily, and the groups behind the report said there will be no effort to rate hospitals which don't want to respond. Instead, they hope many hospitals will strive for high ratings as the survey recurs annually.
    Called the Healthcare Equality Index, the ratings were designed by the Human Rights Campaign and the Gay and Lesbian Medical Association.
    The index is modeled after the HRC's Corporate Equality Index, which rates corporations on policies for gay and lesbian workers. It has tracked a surge in the number of Fortune 500 companies offering benefits to same-sex partners.
    Some responses to the new survey came from hospital networks. Kaiser Permanente, answering on behalf of 31 hospitals in California and Hawaii, said all met the survey's 10 criteria. They were among 45 hospitals in all with top marks.
    University Hospitals of Cleveland, representing 10 Ohio hospitals, said they fully met only two criteria - domestic partner benefits for employees and a patient nondiscrimination policy that includes sexual orientation.
    The HRC and the medical association said their goal is to highlight hospitals with high rankings and induce others to abandon inequitable practices.
    "Too many times, a gay man has been unable to comfort his partner, a transgender person has been ridiculed instead of treated, or a lesbian mom has been barred from seeing her child at the hospital," the groups said.
    In one example cited by the HRC, attorney Kenneth Johnson described his struggle to verify his relationship with his partner, James Massey, in 2006 when Massey was rushed unconscious to Howard University Hospital in Washington, D.C.
    Johnson said he had to travel back to his home in Virginia to fetch legal documents before the hospital allowed him to join in medical decision-making for Massey, who had suffered a cerebral hemorrhage and died the next day. The two men had registered as domestic partners in California and had an adopted son.
    The healthcare index includes recommendations for hospitals, starting with the forms filled out by patients. It recommends that "transgender" be an option for gender and that relationship status include the term "partnered" as well as "single," "married," "divorced" and "widowed."
    The gay rights groups said the ratings are intended to create a best-practices standard that would counteract the patchwork nature of state laws and hospital policies affecting gays and lesbians.
    For example, 20 states prohibit employment discrimination based on sexual orientation, and 12 also ban discrimination based on gender identity; hospitals in other states theoretically can refuse to hire people because they are gay or lesbian.
    Ten states extend legal recognition of some sort to same-sex partnerships, and hospitals there already offer those couples equal visitation and decision-making rights. In other states, hospital practices on those matters vary widely.
    Among the hospitals completing the survey was Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville, Tenn., where there is no state recognition of same-sex partnerships.
    Joel Lee, the hospital's associate vice chancellor for communications, said the facility nonetheless has a policy respecting same-sex partners' rights. It honors the wishes of patients who can express themselves and encourages staff to "sort it out in a humane way" in cases where one partner is incapacitated, Lee said.
    Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign, said he was pleased by the response to the survey, even though hundreds of hospitals did not reply to an invitation to participate.
    "It's the beginning of a dialogue," he said. "We're not calling out the bad guys - we're trying to show them the way."
     
  32. bth7

    bth7 It's worth it in the end . . .

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    We are ecstatic in the Great State of California today! :)

    California Supreme Court Overturns Gay Marriage Ban
    New York Times


    :thumbup:

    From the court majority's decision: (Note, the California Supreme court is a majority Republican appointed court.)
    Bryan Hopping
    bth
     
  33. DocJulez

    DocJulez Awesome Canadian

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    i saw this on the news today and thought of this thread!!!! very very exciting news.
    now if only ppl would just accept it and go on with their lives. there are much more important things to fight about.....being gay shouldnt be anywhere on the list.
    still, this deserves a WOOT WOOT in my opinion
     
  34. bth7

    bth7 It's worth it in the end . . .

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    :thumbup::thumbup:
     
  35. bth7

    bth7 It's worth it in the end . . .

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    You may not be aware that there was a great deal of opposition to these articles, even before they were published. American osteopathic medicine has a history of difficulty in tackling LGBT health care issues and acknowledging the presence of LGBT physicians within its ranks.

    I believe it is worth taking a critical look at Director Crosby's statement in the article. According to Crosby,
    However, the relevant AOA documents state otherwise:

    1. The AOA Code of Ethics Section 3: <http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?PageID=aoa_ethics>

    2. COCA accreditation standard 5.2.2 <http://www.tugsa.net/COCA.standards.pdf>

    Sexual orientation and gender identity are absent from both policies. The discrepancy between Mr. Crosby's statement and the actual documents is of concern.

    President Aljuni's statement is likewise concerning, "I attribute the fact that this has never been raised as an issue of concern to the strength of the AOA's open policy regarding protection from discrimination of any kind." I have a difficult time with this statement as I know "this" has been raised with him, in person, by many individuals.

    Many individuals within the Osteopathic family are currently working to draft legislation within the AOA that would change this situation, but we need your help.

    Please consider taking a moment to write a letter to the AOA editors, thanking them for having the courage to discuss this issue, and explaining why you believe it is important that Osteopathy treat LGBT osteopaths equally. Share your story and show your support for your gay, lesbian and transgender colleagues!

    How to submit letters:
    Readers can submit letters for publication in The DO by sending email to [email protected]. Alternatively, readers can write to Letters to the Editor, c/o Patrick Sinco, managing editor, American Osteopathic Association, 142 E Ontario St, Chicago, IL 60611-2864.
    Warmest regards & thank you so much for your time,

    Bryan Thomas Hopping
    Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine, Vallejo, CA
    Member, American Osteopathic Association
    Member, Gay and Lesbian Medical Association

    For more info on the history of Osteopathic medicine's struggle with LGBT issues, see the following links:
    * Hopping, Bryan. Time to Accept LGBT physicians into the AOA. <http://www.tugsa.net/hoppingletter.pdf>
    * Buchanan, Wyatt. "Gay rights group's charter is revoked." San Francisco Chronicle 12 Sept 2006: B5. <http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/09/12/BAGSPL3NVR1.DTL>
    * American Medical Student Association. 11 Sept. 2006: "Medical Students at TU to protest Abolition of Gay-Straight Alliance Group" <http://www.amsa.org/news/release2.cfx?id=278>
    * Denina, Chris. "Gay Club Loses Touro OK." Vallejo Times-Herald 9 Sept. 2006: A1 <http://www.tugsa.net/bth7/06.09.09-VTH.htm>
    * Touro University Gay-Straight Alliance. Wikipeida.org. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touro_University_Gay-Straight_Alliance#Controversy>
     
  36. bth7

    bth7 It's worth it in the end . . .

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    Don't forget to sumbit a letter, if you're so inclined.
     
  37. MossPoh

    MossPoh Textures intrigue me

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    I like this argument too, because you don't have to be gay to be a victim of violence or hate. I had a roommate call me a "[n word] loving ****" and threaten to "destroy" me if I ever gave him a lip again. He then put his loaded 45 glock to my head to get his impression through. More of my straight friends have had the complete crap beaten out of them than my homosexual friends.

    I've encountered gays be hateful towards other gays. I have tons of gay friends...a freakishly large amount actually, and I've heard THEM refer to a particularly flamboyant guy as a "stupid ******". There can't be double standards with that stuff. It is the same as all other hate speech. Being part of the group doesn't mean you can use it, but others can't. I just feel that the true litmus test of equality is when we live in a time that we don't need all of these special groups for gay students, minority students, women students, etc. Hell, any more I feel like I deserve a group for being a straight white upper-middle class male...but that'd just be seen as racist and homophobic. ;)

    Julez, it is hard to compare Canada to the US. For one thing, the population of the entire country of Canada is roughly equal to that of California, yet distributed across an area on par with the US. (Yet you also make up the vast majority of the NHL...go figure) There is actually a fairly surprising rate of hate crime in Canada for such a subdued nation. One tends to align themselves with people of the same ideals. If you tried to find the dirty side it wouldn't be too hard. Germans are now super sensitive about anything even coming CLOSE to a hate crime, and you'd be hard pressed to find a German outwardly talk about it...yet you walk through certain neighborhoods and see anti-turkish graffiti all over the place. There isn't as much of the homophobic stuff, but I spent most of my time in Berlin...which is not on the super religious side. (I never even talked with a German that went to church there)
     
  38. bth7

    bth7 It's worth it in the end . . .

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    bump
     
    #36 bth7, May 25, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2008
  39. bth7

    bth7 It's worth it in the end . . .

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  40. bth7

    bth7 It's worth it in the end . . .

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    Once again, time to update the links to the articles:

    * Denina, Chris. http://web.archive.org/web/20070223231811/www.tugsa.net/bth7/06.09.09-VTH.htm
    "Gay Club Loses Touro University OK." Vallejo Times-Herald 9 Sept. 2006: A1

    * Bryan Hopping. http://www.do-online.org/TheDO/wp-content/uploads/pdf/pub_do0808letters.pdf Policies send chilling message to LGBT community. The DO magazine. August 2008.

    * http://www.do-online.org/TheDO/wp-content/uploads/pdf/pub_do0508outnotloud.pdf Johnson, Brooke (May 2008). "Out but not loud. Even as acceptance grows, gay DOs, students remain wary". The DO magazine (American Osteopathic Association): 36--41.

    * http://www.do-online.org/TheDO/?page_id=13571 Johnson, Brooke. Life in transition: Transgender DO provides safe haven for patients. The DO magazine. May 2008.

    STILL as of NOVEMBER 2010, UNLIKE THE AMA, the American Osteopathic Association REFUSES to INCLUDE SEXUAL ORIENTATION and GENDER IDENTITY in its CODE OF ETHICS and COCA's non-discrimination policy standards.

    The public mental health crisis continues, and the AOA turns a BLIND EYE.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax96cghOnY4

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYa0wi4XzeI

    Don't be fooled by the AOA's deceptive discriminations against gay, lesbian and transgender people.
     
    #38 bth7, Oct 29, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2011

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