The DO: New Osteopathic Schools Cover Story

[DragonWell]

This post probably belongs in the the "New Schools" thread, but there just too much crap there for any reasonable person to sift through.

Some of you folks might find this article interesting. It basically gives a brief overview of each of the new schools. Page 7 discusses COCA accreditation and the need for "responsible growth".

The DO April 2007

While not directly responsible for graduate medical education, COCA is "morally and ethically obliged" to provide for responsible growth in the profession and continuity across all years of the medical education process, Dr Lally points out. The profession must provide
enough high-caliber training positions for osteopathic medical graduates, he says, "or it
fails in the long run."

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[DragonWell]

Bumping to see if anyone had any opinions on the article?

The last paragraph is interesting:

With other potential osteopathic medical schools on the drawing boards
as well, it looks like the building boom in osteopathic medical education will
continue.

 

[dan1]

Hey i think the article is pretty accurate. Amazing that i had to do so much research just to find out what that article had.... Wish i would have found that early in my searches instead

 

[Shuevee]

Thanks for the article. It was very informative.

 

[Dr JPH]

Bumping to see if anyone had any opinions on the article?

Too much growth too fast.

 

[Krazykritter]

Too much growth too fast.

Seconded.

 

[HarveyCushing]

Too much growth too fast.

I agree. Not until new spots are opened for residencies should new schools be allowed to open. I know people are gonna complain how X% of DO spots were unfilled. That is great. But if you realize that MD schools are increasing their enrollment by about ~20%, it will be harder for us DOs to match into AMA residencies, meaning that we will have to stick to the AOA spots. It will be very interesting to see how things play out in medical education in the next 4-6yrs.

 

[mig2k]

Too much growth too fast.

Thats what many people in the DO communities I've talked to also think. I hope they have enough rotation sites for these guys, thats more important IMO than didactic facilities.

 

[MJB]

I agree. Not until new spots are opened for residencies should new schools be allowed to open. I know people are gonna complain how X% of DO spots were unfilled. That is great. But if you realize that MD schools are increasing their enrollment by about ~20%, it will be harder for us DOs to match into AMA residencies, meaning that we will have to stick to the AOA spots. It will be very interesting to see how things play out in medical education in the next 4-6yrs.

I agree with this and will extend it to say that schools should be required to have their core rotation sites near the schools so that students don't have to move across the country after the first 2 years.

I would like to see more schools start working to get more residencies funded.

I'm not sure I agree with too much growth too soon considering the number of residency spots that are already going unfilled, but do agree more should be done to get more residency positions funded.

It's the older schools that ship out the students after two years that really bug me. I don't understand that.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

I agree with this and will extend it to say that schools should be required to have their core rotation sites near the schools so that students don't have to move across the country after the first 2 years.

I would like to see more schools start working to get more residencies funded.

I'm not sure I agree with too much growth too soon considering the number of residency spots that are already going unfilled, but do agree more should be done to get more residency positions funded.

It's the older schools that ship out the students after two years that really bug me. I don't understand that.

DMU anyone?

 

[MJB]

They're not the only school doing it...not even close.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

They're not the only school doing it...not even close.

I know, DMU just happens to be the one most popular for that.

 

[Krazykritter]

May be partly the reason why DMU is restructuring their clinical years.

The major benefit of HAVING THE OPTION to move around the country is to be seen by a lot of programs w/ residencies. If you stay at one program for almost the duration of your rotations, that puts you at a severe disadvantage b/c your program might not be where you want to be for residency.

Just food for thought....

 

[Dr.Inviz]

May be partly the reason why DMU is restructuring their clinical years.

The major benefit of HAVING THE OPTION to move around the country is to be seen by a lot of programs w/ residencies. If you stay at one program for almost the duration of your rotations, that puts you at a severe disadvantage b/c your program might not be where you want to be for residency.

Just food for thought....

Have fun financing the monthly moves.

 

[Krazykritter]

I agree with this and will extend it to say that schools should be required to have their core rotation sites near the schools so that students don't have to move across the country after the first 2 years.

I would like to see more schools start working to get more residencies funded.

I'm not sure I agree with too much growth too soon considering the number of residency spots that are already going unfilled, but do agree more should be done to get more residency positions funded.

It's the older schools that ship out the students after two years that really bug me. I don't understand that.

Pissed off student who didn't get in at the older schools, anyone??

 

[Dr.Inviz]

.

 

[Krazykritter]

Have fun financing the monthly moves.

Inviz, you have quite the attitude for someone who hasn't even started med school.

You have no idea how many of the hospitals we can rotate through have free housing & you have absolutely no clue as to how the clinical years at other schools work. All you have is heresay.

 

[HarveyCushing]

Have fun financing the monthly moves.

I haven't looked into that closely, but I thought most schools did the lottery system and where you were matched was where you stayed for your 3rd/4th year. So if you wanted to move closer to family or to a program that has a residency you are interested in, you had that option. I don't think you change your setting every month, do you?

 

[PlasticMan]

Too much growth too fast.

Ditto.

 

[MJB]

Pissed off student who didn't get in at the older schools, anyone??

Wow.

Ya got me. You do seem to be sensitive about it. I wasn't really referring to DMU..but if the shoe fits.

 

[MJB]

Bumping to see if anyone had any opinions on the article?

The last paragraph is interesting:

Overall, I thought the article was very informative. Good read.

 

[spicedmanna]

I'm not sure I agree with too much growth too soon considering the number of residency spots that are already going unfilled, but do agree more should be done to get more residency positions funded.

Hmm... Well, here's what I think: it is too much growth, too soon, because even though we have unfilled residencies each year, it won't necessarily get any better with more schools/students. It might actually serve to push more people to apply to the allopathic residencies, I think, instead of filling the empty AOA residency slots. Of course, many of these new schools are heavily focused on primary care and working with the medically-underserved, so that could drive more students to choose the AOA primary care residencies that go unfilled. Hard to say. Anyway, an argument can be made that we should focus on improving the quality of our AOA residencies as to attract more students to go to them.

I have to admit, though, as an MS-0, my comments aren't exactly adequately informed; they don't mean much yet and are based on what I've read or heard in passing.

 

[MJB]

I have to admit, though, as an MS-0, my comments aren't exactly adequately informed; they don't mean much yet and are based on what I've read or heard in passing.

Yep....kind of hard to make a decisive statement one way or the other from our point of view. It should be interesting to see how things work out.

 

[TypeA]

I can't access the article. It says that it is corrupted of something of the like. Would someone be willing to copy and paste and PM it to me? Thanks.

 

[DragonWell]

Yep....kind of hard to make a decisive statement one way or the other from our point of view. It should be interesting to see how things work out.

Also hard to be objective if you are attending one of the schools mentioned in the article.

Not talking about anyone specifically, but it's sometimes interesting to see how people's attitudes about this change after they are accepted. It's pretty rare to hear students talking about too much growth when they're applying...

 

[spicedmanna]

It's pretty rare to hear students talking about too much growth when they're applying...

Yeah.

 

[bioteach]

Yep, as an applicant, growth = more med school seats. Yes, long run we have to worry about residency, etc. But its sure hard to focus on that right now when all I can think about is whether some school is going to want me in the first place.

Its impossible for me to be objective as we are heading into application season. Maybe its a good thing, maybe its not....but darn it, I'll be applying to both the new Colorado and Washington State DO schools this cycle.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Also hard to be objective if you are attending one of the schools mentioned in the article. QUOTE]

Aren't you also attending one of those new schools mentioned in the article? Not quite sure the reason you make that "diss" ... ?

 

[DragonWell]

Also hard to be objective if you are attending one of the schools mentioned in the article. QUOTE]

Aren't you also attending one of those new schools mentioned in the article? Not quite sure the reason you make that "diss" ... ?

No diss intended. Apologies if it came off that way; I intended it simply as an observation - of myself as much as anyone else. I'm just pointing out the effect that one's situation can have on their opinion.

As an applicant, I was happy to have more choices - both in geography and curriculum, and ended up turning down some of the more established schools to take my chances on a program which seemed more innovative and to fit me better. No regrets yet...

 

[MJB]

I'll just say I wouldn't be going to, nor would I have even applied to, the school I plan to attend if I didn't think I would get a good education. It's too much money to just go "wherever".

I feel good about the fact that there is a significant investment being made, the efforts of those starting the school have gone way beyond what I expected, and I feel comfortable that I will be able to stay in one place for all 4 years (and possibly for residency as well), as that was one of the major criteria I considered.

Unobjective? Maybe, but that's not my nature, and I've got 30 years of experience being myself (and I try my best to not be biased).

I'm happy for the opportunity...and plan to make the most of it.

 

[DragonWell]

I'll just say I wouldn't be going to, nor would I have even applied to, the school I plan to attend if I didn't think I would get a good education. It's too much money to just go "wherever".

I feel good about the fact that there is a significant investment being made, the efforts of those starting the school have gone way beyond what I expected, and I feel comfortable that I will be able to stay in one place for all 4 years (and possibly for residency as well), as that was one of the major criteria I considered.

Unobjective? Maybe, but that's not my nature, and I've got 30 years of experience being myself (and I try my best to not be biased).

I'm happy for the opportunity...and plan to make the most of it.

Please go back and read my comment - I said it's hard to be objective if you are attending one of the new schools. There was no criticism of you or your school in what I said.

I think you guys are a hair defensive about this. Just a hair.

I'll just say it again - I'm not criticizing any school or person, merely observing the fact that most of the people whose comments are "too much growth" attend older DO schools. Those of us attending newer school are bound to feel a little differently on this issue, since our livelihoods are dependent on the new schools in the article. Thus, it is hard for us, the students at new DO schools, to be objective on this issue.

Please don't sic the DCOM posse on me ! I'd probably end up being fed to a goat or something.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Please go back and read my comment - I said it's hard to be objective if you are attending one of the new schools. There was no criticism of you or your school in what I said.

I think you guys are a hair defensive about this. Just a hair.

I'll just say it again - I'm not criticizing any school or person, merely observing the fact that most of the people whose comments are "too much growth" attend older DO schools. Those of us attending newer school are bound to feel a little differently on this issue, since our livelihoods are dependent on the new schools in the article. Thus, it is hard for us, the students at new DO schools, to be objective on this issue.

Please don't sic the DCOM posse on me ! I'd probably end up being fed to a goat or something.

Nah, I could give 2 ****s about you talking about a newbie school or DCOM even, I just found it ironic that you were talking about newbie schools, when, you in fact, attend a newbie school, too. MJB is just on a whole different level for the sake of defending the school that accepted him ...

 

[MJB]

Please go back and read my comment - I said it's hard to be objective if you are attending one of the new schools. There was no criticism of you or your school in what I said.

I think you guys are a hair defensive about this. Just a hair.

I'll just say it again - I'm not criticizing any school or person, merely observing the fact that most of the people whose comments are "too much growth" attend older DO schools. Those of us attending newer school are bound to feel a little differently on this issue, since our livelihoods are dependent on the new schools in the article. Thus, it is hard for us, the students at new DO schools, to be objective on this issue.

Please don't sic the DCOM posse on me ! I'd probably end up being fed to a goat or something.

Gotta love the internet....I wasn't offended by your comment in the slightest. Sorry if it came across that way. I intended to be speaking more generally, but apparently, it did not come off that way.

I'm guessing Dr. I is a little insecure though.

 

[DragonWell]

Gotta love the internet....I wasn't offended by your comment in the slightest. Sorry if it came across that way. I intended to be speaking more generally, but apparently, it did not come off that way.

I'm guessing Dr. I is a little insecure though.

Danged old internet, man. LOL.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Gotta love the internet....I wasn't offended by your comment in the slightest. Sorry if it came across that way. I intended to be speaking more generally, but apparently, it did not come off that way.

I'm guessing Dr. I is a little insecure though.

Speak for yourself.

 

[DOctorJay]

it'll be interesting to see what happens when all these new grads start applying for residency positions.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

it'll be interesting to see what happens when all these new grads start applying for residency positions.

It's gonna be hell.

 

[GreenShirt]

On the one hand, I would think that more students would force more residency spots to be created (supply and demand), but on the other, I guess the government doesn't have the budget to pay for those new spots.

 

[Krazykritter]

You might think it would be a supply & demand issue, but it's not. Residency positions are based on Medicare government funding. Hospitals must generate enough Medicare revenue to be able to support salaries for residents.

Just b/c there will be more DO's does not mean there will be more spots. Schools creating new DO's will actively have to seek out funding for positions if they are to be responsible for their graduates.

 

[MJB]

Speak for yourself.

Hmm..I thought you admitted it...but I don't recall for sure. Oops..you're on hold again.