The Effect of Taxes on your income. Any Tricks?

[Oracle DMD]

What strategy have you guys heard of, or are you currently using, to protect your income? s-corp? c-corp? why? any cool tricks? what kind of taxes should we prepare to pay and what taxes can we aviod?

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[djh597]

There are very little ways to protect it as you would imagine. Get ready to pay more in taxes then you have ever imagined. As your income increase most of the deductions are disallowed. A well set up retirement plan can get you 70,000 or so tax free, but then it is tied up in retirement. You will have lots of little things you do that will lessen the burden, like paying yourself miles. Another good way is to own your building in 1 corp, then have your DDS corp rent it and pay yourself a nice rental amount. Long story short, get ready to pay, pay, pay taxes.

 

[gryffindor]

I don't know for sure. I'm setting up an s-corp in the next week so I'll be learning soon. I did go on a small dental-related shopping spree on Dec. 31st to spend down some of my independent contractor income before I have to hand the rest of it over to Obama in April. I think the retirement money thing djh597 mentioned can also be done for a spouse on the payroll as well.

 

[Oracle DMD]

i have heard that you can pay your family through payroll and that helps. paying your kids college fund/tuition through payroll. i have heard about owning the building and then paying yourself rent trick. that should be able to get you out of the highest tax bracket right? with an s-corp you don't have to pay self employment tax of 15%, but you need to get rid of a bunch of "income" instead. at least that's what i'm undertanding.

 

[djh597]

S corp's aren't all that. I set up as an LLC. With an S corp you get to pass through some dividends. However you still have to make a reasonable and appropriate salary. So, you cant pay yourself $1, and try to pass 200K as dividends. You will still have to pay taxes on your dividend, probably at the capital gains rate of 15%, however, obama wants to change that to regular income.

I dont know what all this talk about a self employment tax is about. I am fairly certain that some areas have a tax above everything else, canada for example i think has it. Wouldn't surprise me if CA does.

You will have payroll taxes to pay on salary, 6.2% Social sec and 1.45% med. your company has to match those as well. I assume that is where 15% comes from. keep in mind that 12.4% of that will be gone after 106,000 or so, so you cant really figure that into tax savings of a s corp.

 

[TJNova2011]

What strategy have you guys heard of, or are you currently using, to protect your income? s-corp? c-corp? why? any cool tricks? what kind of taxes should we prepare to pay and what taxes can we aviod?

What's this? You're Mr. Obama supporter now you want to shaft him? Pay your dues that you set yourself.

Welcome to reality, Keckley.

 

[Oracle DMD]

What's this? You're Mr. Obama supporter now you want to shaft him? Pay your dues that you set yourself.

Welcome to reality, Keckley.

I'm glad you're such a big fan of mine TJ. everyone should pay their fair share for sure, but if there is a LEGAL way to pay less, then you're a sucker for not doing so.

 

[djh597]

I'm glad you're such a big fan of mine TJ. everyone should pay their fair share for sure, but if there is a LEGAL way to pay less, then you're a sucker for not doing so.

Be fun when you realize as a dentist you pay your fair share and 25 other peoples. If you want to pay your fair share, visit fairtax.org

but thats a whole other thread

 

[Oracle DMD]

can we not let this devolve into griping about politics? please?!

 

[Daurang]

can we not let this devolve into griping about politics? please?!

I really wish it doesn't get political because this is not the forum for it. Unfortunately, everything comes down to it nowaday due to the supermajority Democratic control of the Senate that wants to tax anything and everything moving despite public majority opposition. Healthcare reform is a tax, union expansion is a tax, trade and cap is a tax, legalizing illegals is a tax, new workplace regulations is a tax, because everything costs a lot of money that will come back to you paying more taxes somehow. Even when congress doesn't do anything it's a tax...top tax rate going from 35% to 40% next year. Again I don't wanna get into Foxnews vs MSNBC argument but these are the facts no matter what political spectrum you're on.

I did went through quite a few scenarios with my cpa but would still cough up about the same amount in taxes/fees no matter whether I sole propriety or llc or s or c corp. My weekly kiplinger tax newsletter said Obama wants to close more loopholes in corporation next year too so don't count on getting out of the self employment tax for long. Of course you all know he wants to limit mortgage and business writeoff to only 28% max, so you'll pay more taxes too.

Your best chance to save on tax now and future is to just get one more Republican into the Senate next year to filibuster all the high tax agendas in the pipeline. It's unfortunate that we've come down to such a bad but only choice.

 

[mike3kgt]

I really wish it doesn't get political because this is not the forum for it.
Your best chance to save on tax now and future is to just get one more Republican into the Senate next year to filibuster all the high tax agendas in the pipeline.

Not to get political and all.

Not that I don't agree, just thought it was funny.

 

[Daurang]

It's NOT funny. What do you think the effect of taxes on your income now and in the future would be if elect just 1 more Dem to the Senate next year?

 

[Istr8nthem]

It's NOT funny. What do you think the effect of taxes on your income now and in the future would be if elect just 1 more Dem to the Senate next year?

Agreed Daurang! I have found it very "interesting" to see just how many of my dental school classmates who were obnoxiously pro-democrat during school have now done a complete flip once they are making money and seeing the government piss 35% of it away! Back in undergrad and dental school more people were allowing other ideals get in the way of their voting decisions, now they are seeing that the most important reason for your vote is to protect you and your family (income protection, asset protection, and homeland protection/security).

As far as the initial question goes, as per my CPA, S-Corp is still the way to go, but I'm sure there are other options that could be made to work with help from a knowledgeable CPA. Above all, I think we need to do something about the crazy spending/growth our government is getting all too comfortable with.

 

[Lily143]

As far as the initial question goes, as per my CPA, S-Corp is still the way to go, but I'm sure there are other options that could be made to work with help from a knowledgeable CPA.

My dental CPA also recommends S-corp.

I agree with everything Daurang wrote.

 

[Oracle DMD]

I really wish it doesn't get political because this is not the forum for it. Unfortunately, everything comes down to it nowaday due to the supermajority Democratic control of the Senate that wants to tax anything and everything moving despite public majority opposition. Healthcare reform is a tax, rachel maddow gives me goosebumps, union expansion is a tax, trade and cap is a tax, legalizing illegals is a tax, new workplace regulations is a tax, because everything costs a lot of money that will come back to you paying more taxes somehow. Even when congress doesn't do anything it's a tax...top tax rate going from 35% to 40% next year. Again I don't wanna get into Foxnews vs MSNBC argument but these are the facts no matter what political spectrum you're on.

I did went through quite a few scenarios with my cpa but would still cough up about the same amount in taxes/fees no matter whether I sole propriety or llc or s or c corp. My weekly kiplinger tax newsletter said Obama wants to close more loopholes in corporation next year too so don't count on getting out of the self employment tax for long. I can't wait to vote for Obama again! I love him. Of course you all know he wants to limit mortgage and business writeoff to only 28% max, so you'll pay more taxes too.

Your best chance to save on tax now and future is to just get one more Republican into the Senate next year to filibuster all the high tax agendas in the pipeline. It's unfortunate that we've come down to such a bad but only choice.

oh jeez.....come on now. it's the supermajority's fault??? even with a super majority, dems can't get anything done. the stuff they almost get done, gets ruined by the gop and lieberman. i would have no problem voting for republicans if they wouldn't INSIST on legislating morality along with their fiscal plans. ugh. anyways....i said please no politics!!! it'll be 1000:1 on here fox teabaggers: me, and i would rather talk about finaces in offices rather than in washington. plus you'll attract the trolls and pirates.

 

[wwdaffodils]

i would have no problem voting for republicans if they wouldn't INSIST on legislating morality along with their fiscal plans.

You don't think Democrats legistlate morality? It might not be done within a religious context, but Democrats definitely dictate their own set of moral conducts to the American public.

 

[krnuckfan]

You don't think Democrats legistlate morality? It might not be done within a religious context, but Democrats definitely dictate their own set of moral conducts to the American public.

Better than ******ed bible-thumping conservatives.

 

[Oracle DMD]

You don't think Democrats legistlate morality? It might not be done within a religious context, but Democrats definitely dictate their own set of moral conducts to the American public.

nope. not even close to the GOP's organized effort to do so. the willingness to bend to christian groups seems to be a litmus test for republicans these days. its horrible, and unless they find a way to get moderate fast, obama will get re-elected in a landslide.

 

[anschutz1913]

I think what WW Daffodils was trying to say is that:

Democrats legislate IMMORALITY.


And to the OP, good job on being 'pro-Change', and then trying to get around the self induced ***** pounding. We all appreciate your enthusiasm. And not all Republicans are teabaggers as you like say. thank you very much.

ANZ

 

[Oracle DMD]

I think what WW Daffodils was trying to say is that:

Democrats legislate IMMORALITY.


And to the OP, good job on being 'pro-Change', and then trying to get around the self induced ***** pounding. We all appreciate your enthusiasm. And not all Republicans are teabaggers as you like say. thank you very much.

ANZ

i always think its funny when someone starts calling others immoral. ahhh the self rightous sentiments of teabaggers. what you find immoral, you would have made into law that your opinion immorality should be made illegal?

also who is anti change? that seems like a ridiculous position doesn't it.

 

[Buckethead]

i always think its funny when someone starts calling others immoral. ahhh the self rightous sentiments of teabaggers. what you find immoral, you would have made into law that your opinion immorality should be made illegal?

also who is anti change? that seems like a ridiculous position doesn't it.

Anti-change DOES seem like a ridiculous position; that is, unless you believe that an absolute set of morals legislated by a white-bearded man in the clouds exists. In that case, anti-change can ONLY be moral, and all that is moral is anti-change.

Good thing people with that mindset have never had political power throughout all of history since the Holy Roman Empire came into existence. Wouldn't that be unfortunate?

That being said, I would totally vote Republican if Philistines and YECs weren't the party bosses and if the Limbaugh/Hannity/Beck/Huckabee hive mind wasn't the mouthpiece of such an offal-spewing hate machine. It's too bad -- their fiscal policy (old school conservative, not this neo-con, Reaganomics, cut and spend, anti-accountability movement) is really quite attractive. Everything else is vomit-inducing.

Now to be relevant:

Minimize taxable income by minimizing visible, direct income. Invest your earnings in real estate, stocks, bonds, etc. to yield capital gains that are taxed at a lower rate than the highest income bracket which I'm sure you are in.

Also, keep wasteful spending low and investing high, especially at this early stage in life. You're getting maybe 65 cents on the dollar to spend as a result of tax, so a $65,000 price tag is more like $100,000. Instead of losing the asset-producing potential of that money by blowing it on a car or something, invest it. That way, you have the possibility of increasing the value of those 65 cents on the dollar rather than squandering it. If you rein in your spending, live frugally, and invest your meager, tax-perforated income, you could be extremely wealthy surprisingly quickly. No guarantees, but educate yourself on investing, and it will be worth a shot.

 

[Soda]

I say the best solution for over taxation and over spending is this: Take the polition who went over the budget the most, or who created was involved in creating the greatest amount of new taxes, and shoot them at the end of the year.

That should solve overspending and increase in taxes.

 

[Oral]

What strategy have you guys heard of, or are you currently using, to protect your income? s-corp? c-corp? why? any cool tricks? what kind of taxes should we prepare to pay and what taxes can we aviod?

I believe one of the first things you should do if you have your own practice is to set up two different LLC's. One that will buy the property you are utilizing as well as all the furniture, decor, and supplies that you will be using (holding LLC). Then, use the second LLC to always have a loan on your property so that any claims (read: lawsuits) cannot be put to your business property since it isn't paid for or owned by your dental practice. Next, your actual dental practice can pay a fat rent payment each month to your holding LLC. On top of that, you can pay your children for 'working' for your holding LLC and use that money towards their college if you keep it under a certain threshold ( I dont have the specifics but I know there is a non taxable yearly income you can pay.) As well, you can utilize the 'gifts' loophole in the system and gift your children a certain amount of money each year tax free and use it for college.

 

[dentwannabe]

I believe one of the first things you should do if you have your own practice is to set up two different LLC's. One that will buy the property you are utilizing as well as all the furniture, decor, and supplies that you will be using (holding LLC). Then, use the second LLC to always have a loan on your property so that any claims (read: lawsuits) cannot be put to your business property since it isn't paid for or owned by your dental practice. Next, your actual dental practice can pay a fat rent payment each month to your holding LLC. On top of that, you can pay your children for 'working' for your holding LLC and use that money towards their college if you keep it under a certain threshold ( I dont have the specifics but I know there is a non taxable yearly income you can pay.) As well, you can utilize the 'gifts' loophole in the system and gift your children a certain amount of money each year tax free and use it for college.

Is all this legal??

 

[mike3kgt]

I believe one of the first things you should do if you have your own practice is to set up two different LLC's. One that will buy the property you are utilizing as well as all the furniture, decor, and supplies that you will be using (holding LLC). Then, use the second LLC to always have a loan on your property so that any claims (read: lawsuits) cannot be put to your business property since it isn't paid for or owned by your dental practice. Next, your actual dental practice can pay a fat rent payment each month to your holding LLC. On top of that, you can pay your children for 'working' for your holding LLC and use that money towards their college if you keep it under a certain threshold ( I dont have the specifics but I know there is a non taxable yearly income you can pay.) As well, you can utilize the 'gifts' loophole in the system and gift your children a certain amount of money each year tax free and use it for college.

Dude, you're going to be a successful dentist... no matter what your preps or impressions look like because this right here is outstanding. Brought a tear to my eye, then again, every time I save a penny of my hard earned $ from going into the hands of the govn'mt, I feel accomplished.

 

[Oral]

yes it is legal! the gifting of money is to reduce estate taxes if you happen to die...it only works if youre estate is worth 3 mil plus...you can also write off a vehicle if you use it entirely for business during the aquisition calender year and then 51% the following year...however if u purchase said vehicle on dec 31, you owned it during that year and then you just need to 'document' 51% work related miles if you get my drift *wink wink...ive seen hummers and escalades.written off using this ....fyi its perfectly legal

 

[perioplasticman]

Contact a good accountant who has alot of dental clients. Let him/her set this up for you. PLCC is what people are setting up.

 

[DrJeff]

Contact a good accountant who has alot of dental clients. Let him/her set this up for you. PLCC is what people are setting up.

+1!!! There is no one best way to handle taxes and a dental practice. A practice grossing 2 million with 2 docs has different tax issues/opportunities then a 1 doc office grossing 400k.

Personally, my practice is an S-corp. My partner and I decided that was the way to go for us after many discussions with our accountant and attorney looking at our cash flow numbers. Prior to me buying in, my now partner was an LLC, because the tax numbers worked the best for him that way.

Bottomline in this political day and age, is that if you're making anywhere near an "average" dental salary, you'll more than likely be facing a larger tax bill in the coming years, especially as those that are in control of Washington find more and more ways to exempt more and more Americans from paying any federal income tax and pass the burden off on the "rich" (note to any students out there who have the Obama love thing going on over this pass the more of the tax burden onto the rich thing he orates so well, if you're making that quite common 6 figure dental salary, you will be that person that Obama wants to villify for being successful, and you will be giving more of your hard earned $$ to Washington, thus having less to pay the student loan folks with )

 

[Daurang]

.

 

[Oracle DMD]

ok new idea (for me at least)

lets say a new grad finds a associate position that is willing to pay them 130k salaried for a year, then a production based compensation negotiation in year 2.

now, could the recent grad ask for 76K a year and 4500/mo for loan repayment. that's about 130k too, but it drops the new grads income significantly so they get to keep more of what they've earned, and the buisness can write off the loan repayment as a benefit, like offering medical insurance or other bennies.

the recent grad (assuming they had this ginormous loan payment anyways) was gonna pay it anyway, but now both parties benefit. will this work??

 

[DrJeff]

ok new idea (for me at least)

lets say a new grad finds a associate position that is willing to pay them 130k salaried for a year, then a production based compensation negotiation in year 2.

now, could the recent grad ask for 76K a year and 4500/mo for loan repayment. that's about 130k too, but it drops the new grads income significantly so they get to keep more of what they've earned, and the buisness can write off the loan repayment as a benefit, like offering medical insurance or other bennies.

the recent grad (assuming they had this ginormous loan payment anyways) was gonna pay it anyway, but now both parties benefit. will this work??

Probably have to ask an accountant about the validity of that. You still may be on the hook for the taxes on that loan repayment if the gov't views it as dividend compensation or potentially based on income levels, the corporation that runs the practice may not be able to write any of that $$ off, unless they are say a State/Federally qualified healthcenter (that's what most of the programs out there that offer loan repayment as part of one's compensation are classified as)

While not completely out of the question, I think that it's pretty safe to say that the LEGAL answer to this will have much to do with what state your practicing in and possibly what type of practice it is

 

[OceanDMD]

ok new idea (for me at least)

lets say a new grad finds a associate position that is willing to pay them 130k salaried for a year, then a production based compensation negotiation in year 2.

now, could the recent grad ask for 76K a year and 4500/mo for loan repayment. that's about 130k too, but it drops the new grads income significantly so they get to keep more of what they've earned, and the buisness can write off the loan repayment as a benefit, like offering medical insurance or other bennies.

the recent grad (assuming they had this ginormous loan payment anyways) was gonna pay it anyway, but now both parties benefit. will this work??

Last I checked, laws are being legislated to tax medical insurance benefits. Also, you can deduct school loan interest until you hit the 75k/year threshhold. Might want to start repayment now if possible, I think they want to take this deduction away as well.

Just about the only thing that you can get as far as benefits from an employer (if you are associating) without being taxed are 401k contributions.

And Oracle, I know you want to keep the politics out of this, but the bottom line is your taxes are going to get worse, much worse over the next few years. There is only so many ways to shelter income, and not only are our tax rates going up, but the deductions are being taken away. Its a double whammy.

 

[Oracle DMD]

Last I checked, laws are being legislated to tax medical insurance benefits. Also, you can deduct school loan interest until you hit the 75k/year threshhold. Might want to start repayment now if possible, I think they want to take this deduction away as well.

Just about the only thing that you can get as far as benefits from an employer (if you are associating) without being taxed are 401k contributions.

And Oracle, I know you want to keep the politics out of this, but the bottom line is your taxes are going to get worse, much worse over the next few years. There is only so many ways to shelter income, and not only are our tax rates going up, but the deductions are being taken away. Its a double whammy.

yes i certainly want to keep politics out, especially legislative what ifs. there's no way i can pay back student loans as a student without handing them back money they just gave me!

so you can't deduct student loa interest if you make to much? hmmm. i will have to make less then. somehow i will learn how to keep more while paying my legal fair share (but no more of course).

if a buisness is paying my student loan, i have to claim it as income then? to be an owner of a dental buiness you have to (or should want to) become a tax wizard! haha

 

[ski.bum]

.

 

[Oracle DMD]

I don't know for sure about loan repayment specifically, but I know that when I was in dental school and my wife worked, the tuition benefit we got was taxable and the amount ($8000/semester, which added up to lots of extra taxes on money we never physically saw) was added to her wages on her W2 at the end of the year. Maybe there is a way as a small business you could work around it, but generally the IRS has thought of many loopholes so that they can take as much as possible.

whoa. what exact do you mean by tuition benefit? and how was that added to HER taxable income??

 

[DrJeff]

yes i certainly want to keep politics out, especially legislative what ifs. there's no way i can pay back student loans as a student without handing them back money they just gave me!

so you can't deduct student loa interest if you make to much? hmmm. i will have to make less then. somehow i will learn how to keep more while paying my legal fair share (but no more of course).

Yup, the vast majority of dentists have never gotten to deduct a cent of the interest they pay on their student loans because of the maximum income ceiling A few years ago, when the housing market was exploding you could under the right circumstances be able to refinance your home and utilize the likely decent increase in your home equity to take out enough $$ to pay of mortgage #1 and your student loan and then deduct the interest from mortgage #2(or sometimes a home equity loan for the same purpose) thus getting some form of an interest deduction from your student loans. With both the housing values now, and the generally speaking much stricter mortgage lending rules, this basically doesn't happen anymore.

If a buisness is paying my student loan, i have to claim it as income then? to be an owner of a dental buiness you have to (or should want to) become a tax wizard! haha

Precisely!!! That's why very few dentists actually do their own taxes, because the complexity of the tax code and the potential deductions that you may be able to take advantage of from year to year is practically a full time job in itself, and an error on your part, in an attempt to save a few bucks on accounting fees could end up costing you way more than what you pay your accountant each year.

 

[DrJeff]

whoa. what exact do you mean by tuition benefit? and how was that added to HER taxable income??

I'm guessing that it may have something to do with the dreaded "marriage penalty" when it comes to taxes

My guess is Oracle, that just like so many of us in this profession, your political leanings (at least on the fiscal side of things) will quickly shift from the left to the right once you're out of school and earning a dental income and seeing how quickly, the sum of $$ that YOU pay to the gov't adds up. Then, just like many of us, start having the mental debate about what has a bigger impact to you and your family, the fiscal tendencies of one political party or the social tendencies of another. And for many in this profession, the mental debate about this issue will eventually be decided by what effects your paycheck, since if you have some extra $$, you can often ease the guilty side of your brain from the social perspective with a bigger donation each year to your favorite charities of choice

 

[ski.bum]

.

 

[rvali001]

One way I plan on saving some money for taxes is through retirement accounts. Depending on your income level, whether you are emplloyed or own your office, and your spouse's options, solutions can vary from Traditional IRA, Roth IRA, SIMPLE IRA, and SEP IRA. They all have different benefits and applications, like for instance, a SEP can currently allow you to invest $49000 or 25% per year, which ever is less. Simple IRA's are $16000 a year with no max percentage of income. Also, HSA type health insurance plans can give you another place to defer taxes. Roth is more beneficial to those who will have a higher tax bracket at retirement, but I have already started mine, as my current income tax is really low compared to what it will be.

 

[Daurang]

I am doing my part tomorrow to help everyone here reduce their tax obligation for the foreseeable future. I will stand in line in the freezing sleet as long as it take to cast my vote to elect Scott Brown.

Nebraska got their $100million bribe, Louisiana got their $300million bribe, SEIU/AFL/CIO got their $60BILLION bribe, the pharm companies got their $80BILLION bribe; all this must be paid for on the back of us little guys forced to pay higher taxes. You add another 20 millions illegals into the country this year thanks to Obama's amnesty program; guess who will have to pay A LOT more taxes to support their families and subsidize their healthcare?

His election is the death blow to healthcare reform, cap-and-trade, immigration reform, spending increases, and tax increases.

 

[Oracle DMD]

I am doing my part tomorrow to help everyone here reduce their tax obligation for the foreseeable future. I will stand in line in the freezing sleet as long as it take to cast my vote to elect Scott Brown.

Nebraska got their $100million bribe, Louisiana got their $300million bribe, SEIU/AFL/CIO got their $60BILLION bribe, the pharm companies got their $80BILLION bribe; all this must be paid for on the back of us little guys forced to pay higher taxes. You add another 20 millions illegals into the country this year thanks to Obama's amnesty program; guess who will have to pay A LOT more taxes to support their families and subsidize their healthcare?

His election is the death blow to healthcare reform, cap-and-trade, immigration reform, spending increases, and tax increases.

why? because then the dems will only have an 18 seat majority? a greater majority then republicans have had since 1923? the dems are useless tho, so apparently even a supermajority doesn't allow them to do anything either. ugh.

 

[Slack3r]

why? because then the dems will only have an 18 seat majority? a greater majority then republicans have had since 1923? the dems are useless tho, so apparently even a supermajority doesn't allow them to do anything either. ugh.

From the guy trying to hide his money from taxes, you sure are voting for the wrong party. Seems everyone has a bleeding heart until they're subsidizing the social welfare experiments.

 

[Daurang]

Dr. Jeff, could you drop by MA and vote with us? ACORN registered their pets, Mickey mouse, and dead people during the last election so really we need you here to cancel those phantom votes.

 

[Simiam]

Dr. Jeff, could you drop by MA and vote with us? ACORN registered their pets, Mickey mouse, and dead people during the last election so really we need you here to cancel those phantom votes.

First it was the "hanging chad" incident in Florida in 2000. Now we are getting phantom voters! what's next I wonder? How will the next elections be illegally swayed.

 

[DrJeff]

Dr. Jeff, could you drop by MA and vote with us? ACORN registered their pets, Mickey mouse, and dead people during the last election so really we need you here to cancel those phantom votes.

Trust me Daurang, I'm thinking about it today! Heck, from where I'm sitting at my desk typing this, I'm under 10 minutes from the CT/Mass Border

 

[LNinlove]

I live in Colorado and the ACORN bus just drove by...they better hustle it up...they are a little behind!

HOPEFULLY Brown wins today...but the dems will find a way to ram it down the unwilling American's throats regardless.

To keep this thread on target, I plan on getting with my mentor and picking his brain, as he brings in around $1.5 million a year. That's with two offices and associates, etc.

 

[Oracle DMD]

From the guy trying to hide his money from taxes, you sure are voting for the wrong party. Seems everyone has a bleeding heart until they're subsidizing the social welfare experiments.

no. i want to pay my fair share, and not any more. you're gonna have to pay more if you make more, but that doesn't mean you gotta be be a sucker.

 

[DrJeff]

If Brown wins today and the dems try and take whatever steps they see fit to ram this healthcare bill through, my strong suspicision is that you'll see many of those dems that needed to be "bribed" for their votes the 1st time through really, really think about what's more important to their generally narciscistic selves, their job or Obama's reputation?? And I think it's safe to say that many of the freshmen house reps that rode Obama's coattails into office in '08 will see the writing on the wall and realize that a vote for this bill will more than likely be the end of their careers.

If we find out in a few hours that Brown did win, it's going to be very interesting to hear what Obama says in his teleprompter read of his State of The Union address next week, and how both parties react to it.

 

[DrJeff]

no. i want to pay my fair share, and not any more. you're gonna have to pay more if you make more, but that doesn't mean you gotta be be a sucker.

Then purely based on that statement alone, and no other political ideologocal issues, wouldn't you then favor the republican point of view(or at least the conservative point of view)?? Where the party platform involves smaller gov't and lower taxes??

Is there something wrong with wanting to keep and manage more of YOUR own hard earned money rather than let the folks in the local, state, and federal government have more it???

 

[Slack3r]

Is there something wrong with wanting to keep and manage more of YOUR own hard earned money rather than let the folks in the local, state, and federal government have more it???

Yes. It makes you an evil fascist pig and shame on you for even thinking such things.