A little food for thought for you all.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/01/news/economy/debt_ceiling_students/index.htm?hpt=hp_t2
http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/01/news/economy/debt_ceiling_students/index.htm?hpt=hp_t2
The end of subsidised loans
- Thread starter PAyankee
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The annoying part is that out of the 22 billion saved from cutting out subsidized loans, 17 billion is going towards Pell Grants.
"Full funding for Pell Grants is absolutely essential to fulfilling the president's goal of the U.S. once again having the highest proportion of college graduates in the world by 2020," said Pauline Abernathy, vice president of the Institute for College Access & Success."
The government would rather see a nation full of philosophy and sociology degrees rather then help doctors, dentists, and other grad students get through school. Great.....
"Full funding for Pell Grants is absolutely essential to fulfilling the president's goal of the U.S. once again having the highest proportion of college graduates in the world by 2020," said Pauline Abernathy, vice president of the Institute for College Access & Success."
The government would rather see a nation full of philosophy and sociology degrees rather then help doctors, dentists, and other grad students get through school. Great.....
N
NAVY DDS 2010
It is not like a few thousand extra dollars over the life of a loan is going to hurt grad students by any means. Plus, who says that people receiving Pell grants are going to be philosophy and sociology majors? If it weren't for Pell grants and other sources of finacial aid, there would have been no way she would have been able to go to school. Her income alone puts us in the top 10% of incomes which means one thing - we pay a lot in taxes. My point - the government has already made back a lot more money in taxes out of our incomes than what they gave her. Very little tax revenue would have been collected from her had she not received this financial aid. Dentists, physicians, pharmacists, lawyers, MBA students, etc. do not need subsidized loans because they will easily be able to recoup the little bit of extra money shelled out on interest. Work a few extra days and you will have recouped the difference in interest paid.
+1. I dont even think physicians or dentists who accept medicare/caid should have to pay taxes. If you treat someone for below market value either the patient should pay the difference or the provider should receive a tax break.
The idea that future dentists or doctors should work extra days to offset this rollback in sub loans, when they pay so much in taxes already, is crazy!
The idea that future dentists or doctors should work extra days to offset this rollback in sub loans, when they pay so much in taxes already, is crazy!
N
NAVY DDS 2010
Then don't complain when tuition and taxes increase because as I already said - you can't have it both ways!
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A few thousands dollars that's unsubsidized from when a student starts grad school is going to hurt alot when they come out 4 years later. Or especially 7 if you're a doctor.
Honestly, if you look the majority of Pell Grant recipients, almost half of them are bumming around at community college getting a degree in nothing. Sure there's the good half that make it out to get a great degree, career, etc. But the other half just get a degree in something useless like psychology/sociology/etc and end up with......nothing. No job skills or techinical training, just 4 years of grades. Instead of helping grad students who have gone above undergrad education and are trying to go somewhere in their lives, the government supports giving more people degrees. Which is a terrible proposition since it does nothing. More degrees =/= more educated. US standards for testing and education are at low points everywhere. We definitely don't need to send all those kids to college.
I wouldn't say it's as easy as working a couple extra days. Not everyone in grad school is going to come out a wealthy doctor/businessman. You have grad students in EVERYTHING (CS, EE, business, neuroscience, audiology, etc.) that's going to feel the pain of having to pay more every month for their loans. It's not just "a little bit" of money every month. There's an article in Forbes about how a doctor has as much spending money as a plumber over their lifetime. Taking away subsidized loans is going to make plumbing look mighty nice now......
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take a second and think about, how many children today are picking up books suck as harry potter instead of faulkners, etc.. How many students are pre-med and how many actually engage in food for thought majors such as philosophy. To sit here as future doctors and grobble over some thousands dollars, which are really meaningless in the grand scheme of your salary is a little silly. people out there are way off worse than we are, and we are very fortunate to be pursuing such amazing careers. just a different viewpoint to think about..
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That is a really good point. Thanks for that.
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That's a tough statement to back up when 80% of the cuts are going to fund low-income student education. Of course, in reality this has nothing to do with the U.S. government supporting public education or not. The transfer of debt from one group to another is really just a mechanism to soften the blow of having to reduce the deficit. Thinking that this money is going toward Pell grants is just a feel-good.
Looks like Class of 2015 is the last one to get any subsidized loans (1 year worth).
By the way, the additional $8,500 per year at 6.8% will be about ~$6,200 in additional interest at the end of four years, with the elimination of the subsidized loans. We will be OK but I wouldn't call it "no big deal" like some people are. In any event, we all have to sacrifice for the country's health.
N
NAVY DDS 2010
The amount of extra debt is minimal compared to the overal tuition you will have to pay back over the life of the loan. Also, what you are not taking into consideration is that dentists and physicians didn't have all the extra funding we have now. A lot of them had to work full time jobs to pay for living expenses which made life more difficult during d-school. Just be happy you are even able to get the loans so you don't have to work during d-school. After d-school, we will be making a lot more money than the average citizen for a job we love to do. It will not take long to make up the extra amount in interest.
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The extra interest over four years, plus tuition increases (thanks to budget cuts), plus the increasing cost to simply live, plus the extra technology dentists invest in these days, this is significant in my mind for dental students. Lots of dentists will come out of school and become associates or buy into a practice where they are only needed certain days a week, or enter into residency with lower pay. Not everyone can just graduate, open up a ravishingly successful practice, and work to their heart's content. Not everyone can take appointments on Saturday morning or later in the evening to make up for this.
I don't buy into the argument that we should just look at the "grand scheme" of things, the idea that some day we will all live in a big house, have a wife that can stay home and will cook in heels and greet us at the door after work, and roll a Mercedes; out of school, we are like any other tradesman (or woman), trying to find our way and working really hard to establish a reputation as a good dentist. Every one of us should be very concerned about our country's declining attention to education.
I don't buy into the argument that we should just look at the "grand scheme" of things, the idea that some day we will all live in a big house, have a wife that can stay home and will cook in heels and greet us at the door after work, and roll a Mercedes; out of school, we are like any other tradesman (or woman), trying to find our way and working really hard to establish a reputation as a good dentist. Every one of us should be very concerned about our country's declining attention to education.
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Well said my friend.
@Navy dentist - I'm assuming you're doing the military scholarship route, and I salute to you, but it's easy for you to make those remarks considering that extra money will not necessarily be coming straight out of your pockets. Correct if I'm wrong. In addition to your remarks about we'll be making all this great money, lifestyle, etc, don't count your chickens before they hatch, pal. Our economy is in a downward spiral. At this rate, who is going to pay for the service of a dentist if everybody are losing their jobs and taxes increase? The government with medicaid (if it's still funded then)???
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thats the beauty of America... people sit on welfare for 20 years, meanwhile poor grad students have to bear the burden 
(note the sarcasm)
(note the sarcasm)
N
NAVY DDS 2010
Mr. Wilson,
Yes, I am doing the Navy route, BUT ..... you obviously don't know everything about my wife and I. My wife attended pharmacy school. So, we have all the loans she took out to pay for pharmacy school and she just finished getting her MBA which also cost almost $100K. So, I can talk about this subject as it does affect me and my wife!!!! Also, I was in dental school a decade and a half ago. I withdrew during my 2nd year. I had close to $50k in student loans with no job and a pre-med/pre-dent degree that was pretty worthless. And that didn't take into account the nearly $10k in credit card debt that I had to rack up until I could find work that I could support myself on. I had to work 2 full time/barely minimum wage jobs to pay for student loans. So, yes sir, I can make remarks like this as I have and currently am affected by this!!!
Sorry, but I there is no reason why you cannot have a very nice lifestyle. Yes, the economy is down right now, but I would not say it is in a downward spiral. Also, there are plenty of places where there is still a large need for dentists. If you are willing to relocate, there is lots of money to be made out there. Now, if you are only willing to practice in a large city that is saturated and you are one of those who is fighting for patients, well, that is your fault for being unwilling to move to where there is a need. There is a lot of money that can be tapped into out there, but you have to be willing to go to it. If I didn't already plan on finishing my career out in the Navy and then go into teaching afterward, then I would have no problem locating in one of these areas.
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