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The facts about US foreign trained physicians in the match

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Sharky

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Go http://www.nrmp.org/2004advdata.pdf and look at page 3. The numbers do not lie.

The statistics for 2004-

US Foreign graduates who were active through the match: 2,015
Those who actually matched PGY-1: 1,117 or 55.4%
Those who went unmatched PGY-1: 898 or 44.6%

DOs who were active through the match: 1,559
Those who actually matched PGY-1: 1,099 or 70.4%
Those who went unmatched PGY-1: 461 or 29.6%

If you look at all the years from 1998, the % of matched US foreign graduates ranges from 45% to 55%.

For DOs from 1998, the % of matched DO graduates ranges from 68% to 71%.

Also remember many DOs enter into DO residencies which could account for some of the DOs who didn't match in MD residencies. Once a DO matches for the DO residency, he or she is automatically taken out of the MD match.

What does this say? Well DOs match at an average of about 70% rate and most likely higher due to DO residencies, while US foreign grads match at an average of 50%. It is an awful risk to take just for the letters. Why not just go through the path of least resistance, DO.
 

Leukocyte

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Sharky said:
Also remember many DOs enter into DO residencies which could account for some of the DOs who didn't match in MD residencies. Once a DO matches for the DO residency, he or she is automatically taken out of the MD match.QUOTE]


Also remember that many, and I mean many, Ross (and I assume St. George and AUC grads) PRE-MATCH, which could account for some of the US FMGs who did not match.

***Please also notice that those "US FMGS" say NOTHING about chances of matching coming out of Ross, St. George....or any carib school for that matter.

US FMG does Not mean Ross, St. George,.........

There are many US citizens that go to Europe, India, Australia, Dominican Republic, Philipines, Mexico...........

So those Stats say nothing about Ross, St. Georges..........
 

bts4202

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Sharky said:
Go http://www.nrmp.org/2004advdata.pdf and look at page 3. The numbers do not lie.

The statistics for 2004-

US Foreign graduates who were active through the match: 2,015
Those who actually matched PGY-1: 1,117 or 55.4%
Those who went unmatched PGY-1: 898 or 44.6%

DOs who were active through the match: 1,559
Those who actually matched PGY-1: 1,099 or 70.4%
Those who went unmatched PGY-1: 461 or 29.6%

If you look at all the years from 1998, the % of matched US foreign graduates ranges from 45% to 55%.

For DOs from 1998, the % of matched DO graduates ranges from 68% to 71%.

Also remember many DOs enter into DO residencies which could account for some of the DOs who didn't match in MD residencies. Once a DO matches for the DO residency, he or she is automatically taken out of the MD match.

What does this say? Well DOs match at an average of about 70% rate and most likely higher due to DO residencies, while US foreign grads match at an average of 50%. It is an awful risk to take just for the letters. Why not just go through the path of least resistance, DO.

While your facts are totally accurate, that data does not account for what school the people attended, nor how many ended up with a spot in scramble.

THere are bunch of grads entering the match who went to all sorts of crazy schools all over the world and therefore have all sorts of serious deficiencies in their scores, etc. It would be better if there was a way to get official match statistics for each school... if you were able to, I would bet that grads of Ross and SGU would have similar stats as the DO schools.
 

aucgrad110

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some people are just militant DO's. its amazing, we dont even mock the DO thing but just say that there are other options. and all of a sudden they get all defensive.

to all militant DO's, your inferiority complex is unfounded. you went to great schools and the DO profession is reputable. however, there ARE other options to obtain a MD for those who dont care for the DO. YES, there ARE people on this planet that want primary care and dont want the DO. they would rather have the MD. MD means more to them. i am not one of them but their philosophy is that they go through so many years of schooling only to be asked what they are by patients. ive heard stories of patients asking why they didnt go to a REAL med school. i know its shallow thinking, but who are you to judge them. it was THEIR decision.
 

awdc

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Leukocyte said:
Also remember that many, and I mean many, Ross (and I assume St. George and AUC grads) PRE-MATCH, which could account for some of the US FMGs who did not match.

***Please also notice that those "US FMGS" say NOTHING about chances of matching coming out of Ross, St. George....

There are many US citizens that go to Europe, India, Australia, Dominican Republic, Philipines, Mexico...........

So those Stats say nothing about Ross, St. Georges..........

Word.
 

Dukes

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As the previous posters have stated, those numbers while correct don't reflect the situation for individual schools like Ross, SGU etc... These numbers however illustrate an important point to all potential students entertaining the idea of going abroad for medical school. Foreign schools vary immensely in standards, and track records of their graduates so it's really important to do your home work before attending.
 

Brian Pavlovitz

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Dukes said:
As the previous posters have stated, those numbers while correct don't reflect the situation for individual schools like Ross, SGU etc... These numbers however illustrate an important point to all potential students entertaining the idea of going abroad for medical school. Foreign schools vary immensely in standards, and track records of their graduates so it's really important to do your home work before attending.

It seems similar to the first time pass rate for the Step 1 for international graduates--66% in 2001 (according to First Aid). However, at least for SGU, the first time pass rate is usually around 92%, and sometimes has even exceeded the US pass rate.
 

Aucdoctobe

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Sharky said:
Go http://www.nrmp.org/2004advdata.pdf and look at page 3. The numbers do not lie.

The statistics for 2004-

US Foreign graduates who were active through the match: 2,015
Those who actually matched PGY-1: 1,117 or 55.4%
Those who went unmatched PGY-1: 898 or 44.6%

DOs who were active through the match: 1,559
Those who actually matched PGY-1: 1,099 or 70.4%
Those who went unmatched PGY-1: 461 or 29.6%

If you look at all the years from 1998, the % of matched US foreign graduates ranges from 45% to 55%.

For DOs from 1998, the % of matched DO graduates ranges from 68% to 71%.

Also remember many DOs enter into DO residencies which could account for some of the DOs who didn't match in MD residencies. Once a DO matches for the DO residency, he or she is automatically taken out of the MD match.

What does this say? Well DOs match at an average of about 70% rate and most likely higher due to DO residencies, while US foreign grads match at an average of 50%. It is an awful risk to take just for the letters. Why not just go through the path of least resistance, DO.


Perhaps, you need more education on the matter Sharky. My school just reported there most recent USMLE first time pass rate to be at 87% and everyone obtained a residency. Here is the list. As you can see, these Caribbean grads did quite well:
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2004 Residency Appointments for AUC Graduates


Anesthesiology - 5
John H. Stroger, Jr. Hospital of Cook County; Chicago, IL
Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine - Milton S. Hershey Medical Center; Hershey, PA
University of Cincinnati College of Medicine; Cincinnati, OH
University of Connecticut Health Center; Farmington, CT
Wayne State University/Detroit Medical Center; Detroit, MI


Emergency Medicine - 5
Earl K. Long Medical Center; Baton Rouge, LA
Ohio State University Medical Center; Columbus, OH
Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine - Milton S. Hershey Medical Center; Hershey, PA
St. John Hospital; Detroit, MI
St. Vincent Mercy Medical Center; Toledo, OH


Family Practice - 54
Aultman Hospital (North Eastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine); Canton, OH
Barberton Citizens Hospital; Barberton, OH
Brooklyn Hospital Center; Brooklyn, NY
Carilion Roanoke Memorial Hospital; Roanoke, VA
Chestnut Hill Hospital; Philadelphia, PA
Community Hospital; Indianapolis, IN
Deaconess Hospital; Evansville, IN - 2
East Tennessee State University; Johnson City, TN
Kaiser Permanente; Riverside, CA
Kern Medical Center; Bakersfield, CA
Lagrange Family Practice; La Grange, IL
Louisiana State University (Shreveport)/Lake Charles Program; Lake Charles, LA
McAllen Family Practice; McAllen, TX
Medical Colleges of Wisconsin; Racine, WI
Methodist Charlton Medical Center; Dallas, TX
Methodist Dallas Medical Center; Dallas, TX
Northeastern Ohio University College of Medicine; Rootstown, OH
Ohio State University Medical Center; Columbus, OH
Palmetto Richland Memorial Hospital; Columbia, SC - 2
Pinnacle Health at Harrisburg Hospital; Harrisburg, PA
Providence Hospital; Southfield, MI - 3
Regional Medical Center; Anniston, AL
Riverside County Regional Medical Center; Moreno Valley , CA
Scottsdale Healthcare-Osborn; Scottsdale, AZ
Somerset Medical Center; Somerville, NJ - 2
St. John Hospital; Detroit, MI
St. John's Mercy Medical Center; St. Louis, MO - 2
Trinity Lutheran Hospital; Kansas City, MO
University Medical Center; Lafayette, LA
University of California - San Francisco; Fresno, CA
University of Florida Health Science Center; Jacksonville, FL
University of Illinois College of Medicine at Chicago/Advocate Christ Medical Center; Hometown, IL
University of Nevada School of Medicine; Reno, NV - 2
University of Oklahoma - Health Sciences Center; Oklahoma City, OK
University of Tennessee; Jackson, TN
University of Tennessee Graduate School of Medicine; Knoxville, TN - 2
University of Texas Health Science Center; McAllen, TX
University of Texas Health Science Center; San Antonio, TX
Wayne State University/Detroit Medical Center; Detroit, MI
West Virginia University Hospitals; Morgantown, WV
West Virginia University Harpers Ferry Rural Family Medicine; Harpers Ferry, WV
Williamsport Hospital and Medical Center; Williamsport, PA
Wilson Memorial Regional Medical Center; Johnson City, NY - 2
York Hospital; York, PA
Providence Swedish Medical Center; Seattle, WA


Internal Medicine - 44
Alton Ochsner Clinic Foundation; New Orleans, LA
Brooklyn Hospital Center; Brooklyn, NY
Danbury Hospital; Danbury, CT
East Tennessee State University - Quillen College of Medicine; Johnson City, TN
Flushing Hospital Medical Center; Flushing, NY - 3
Hennepin County Medical Center; Minneapolis, MN
Internal Medicine Spokane; Spokane, WA
Kern Medical Center; Bakersfield, CA
Lutheran Medical Center; Brooklyn, NY
Maricopa Medical Center; Scottsdale, AZ
Maryland General Hospital; Baltimore, MD
Methodist Central Hospital; Memphis, TN
Muhlenberg Regional Medical Center; Plainfield, NJ
New York Medical College; Bronx, NY
New York Hospital Medical Center; Flushing, NY
Northeastern Ohio University College of Medicine; Canton, OH
North Shore University Hospital; Forest Hills, NY
Palmetto Richland Memorial Hospital; Columbia, SC - 2
Providence Hospital; Southfield, MI ? 5
Raritan Bay Medical Center; Perth Amboy, NJ
Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital; Santa Barbara, CA
St. John Hospital; Detroit, MI - 2
St. Joseph's Regional Medical Center; Paterson, NJ
State University of New York Health Science Center; Brooklyn, NY - 2
UCLA / VA Medical Center; Los Angeles, CA
Union Memorial Hospital; Baltimore, MD
University of Arizona; Tucson, AZ
University of Buffalo Graduate Medicine; Buffalo, NY
University of Florida Health Science Center; Jacksonville, FL
University of South Carolina Richland Memorial Hospital; Columbia, SC
University of Southern California; Los Angeles, CA ? 2
University of Tennessee Graduate School of Medicine; Knoxville, TN
Winthrop University Hospital; Mineola, NY
Wright State University School of Medicine; Dayton, OH


Internal Medicine / Pediatrics - 4
Brody School of Medicine at East Carolina University, Greenville, NC
Staten Island University Hospital; Staten Island, NY
University of Kansas Medical Center; Kansas City, KS
University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston Medical School; Houston, TX


Internal Medicine / Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation - 1
University of Buffalo Graduate Medical Education; Buffalo, NY


Neurology - 1
George Washington University Hospital; Washington, DC


Nuclear Medicine - 1
University of Southern California; Los Angeles, CA


Obstetrics and Gynecology - 5
Hartford Hospital; Farmington, CT
Medical College of Ohio Hospital; Toledo, OH
St. Luke's Roosevelt Hospital Center; New York, NY
Bridgeport Hospital-CT; Bridgeport, CT
University of Connecticut Health Center; Farmington, CT


Pathology - 1
Advocate Illinois Masonic Medical Center; Chicago, IL


Pediatrics - 6
Creighton University; Omaha, NE
Martin Luther King/Drew Medical Center; Los Angeles, CA
Morristown Memorial Hospital; Morristown, NJ
St. Joseph's Hospital; Phoenix, AZ - 2
State University of New York Upstate Medical University; Syracuse, NY


Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation - 1
Albert Einstein College of Medicine/Montefiore Medical Center; Bronx, NY


Psychiatry - 10
Brookdale Hospital Medical Center; Brooklyn, NY
East Tennessee State University; Johnson City, TN
Louisiana State University School of Medicine; New Orleans, LA
Maricopa Medical Center; Scottsdale, AZ
University of Kansas; Kansas City, KS ? 2
University of Maryland Medical System; Baltimore, MD
University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey / Robert Wood Johnson Medical School; Camden, NJ - 2
University of Utah; Salt Lake City, UT


Radiology-Diagnostic - 2
Providence Hospital; Southfield, MI - 2


Surgery-General - 9
Albert Einstein College of Medicine/Montefiore Medical Center; Bronx, NY
Carilion Roanoke Community Hospital; Roanoke, VA
Marshall University - Joan C. Edwards School of Medicine; Huntington, WV
Providence Hospital; Southfield, MI
Saint Joseph's Hospital of Marshfield; Marshfield, WI
St. Agnes Hospital; Baltimore, MD
Staten Island University Hospital; Staten Island, NY
University of South Alabama Medical Center; Mobile, AL
Western Reserve Health System Northside Hospital; Youngstown, OH

Surgery-Neurological ? 1
University of Virginia Health Science Center; Charlottesville, VA

Surgery-Preliminary - 9
Monmouth Medical Center; Long Branch, NJ
Providence Hospital; Southfield, MI
St. Agnes Hospital; Baltimore, MD
St. Mary's Hospital; Waterbury, CT
Staten Island University Hospital; Staten Island, NY
Union Memorial Hospital; Baltimore, MD
University of Connecticut; Hartford, CT
University of Miami Jackson Memorial Medical Center; Miami, FL
University of Southern California; Los Angeles, CA


Transitional Year ? 6
Frankford Hospital; Philadelphia, PA - 2
Griffin Hospital; Derby, CT
Providence Hospital; Southfield, MI ? 2
St. Agnes Hospital; Baltimore, MD

---
Ta dow!!!!!!!
 

Sharky

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The numbers speak for themselves. I just reported them and let you decide.
 

wolfvgang22

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Sharky said:
The numbers speak for themselves. I just reported them and let you decide.
The whole point of the majority of this thread is that numbers don't speak for themselves. All statistics must be interpreted within the appropriate context.

At least, that's what they taught me in stats class. :)
 

Dukes

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wolfvgang22 said:
The whole point of the majority of this thread is that numbers don't speak for themselves. All statistics must be interpreted within the appropriate context.

At least, that's what they taught me in stats class. :)

Well said.
 

aucgrad110

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yea the numbers dont lie, but they also include applicants from Ali Babbas Wonders of the Human Body Medical Academy.

THE AUC MATCH LIST DOES NOT LIE.
i think its time to be a little more open minded.
 
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Sharky

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aucgrad110 said:
yea the numbers dont lie, but they also include applicants from Ali Babbas Wonders of the Human Body Medical Academy.

THE AUC MATCH LIST DOES NOT LIE.
i think its time to be a little more open minded.
Please do not insult. Just because my opinion differs does not mean that you should insult me. I am an open minded person.
 

Leukocyte

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Sharky said:
Please do not insult. Just because my opinion differs does not mean that you should insult me. I am an open minded person.

I do not see how aucgrad insulted you. What he is saying is very true though: Ross/SGU/AUC...grads (who did all their clinical rotations at US teaching hospitals) do have a higher chance of matching compared to FMGs who did not do any rotations in the US, and are not familiar with the US healthcare system.

In fact, Ross/SGU/AUC grads are in a boat, and the India/Philipines/Europe/Australia grads are in a different boat come match time.
 

Sharky

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I would say being called a DO militant and saying I should be more open-minded is an insult. Yes I agree that the list doesn't say specific medical schools. However, the list says US foreign grads and where do most US citizens go if they have to go out of the country? I would say caribbean schools even though I realize some go to Ireland and other places.

If you look at the page there is also a category of non-US foreign grads and these are the non-US citizens that come from different countries.

Now your point by which schools they are addressing is correct. We do not know which schools in the caribbean specifically it addresses and looking at matchlists would enlighten applicants more about that.
 

aucgrad110

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glad you see my point about not generalizing. if choosing the carib, look at the match lists. that should be the determining factor as to if you can get into tough residencies.
 

HussainGQ

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Are there any stats available on what percentage of Foreign med school grads got their primary choice as their residency, so what percentage of the 55% or so got their 1st choice and what % got stuck with a position that no obdy else wanted??
 

Leukocyte

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Hey, Sharky babe (I assume you are a babe, if not sorry), and aucgrad dude,

Lets make nice......OK? :thumbup:
 

Sharky

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Yes we should play nice. ;)

Ok enough posting in this forum. Good luck to those medical students in America and out of America.
 
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