The final argument against NRMP controlling residency appointment

[agranulocytosis]

The NRMP totally dropped the ball on this one today. Although I'm not scrambling, I know many who are, and things are not pretty to say the least.

There was talk recently about all resdency positions being forced to be under the control of the NRMP. I think today is the big reason why one organization should not be the sole entity controlling things.

What do you guys think?

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[McGillGrad]

I could not imagine how awful people must feel today while scrambling. I hope they fix it for next year with the new SOAP system.

 

[Maybeknot]

The NRMP totally dropped the ball on this one today. Although I'm not scrambling, I know many who are, and things are not pretty to say the least.

There was talk recently about all resdency positions being forced to be under the control of the NRMP. I think today is the big reason why one organization should not be the sole entity controlling things.

What do you guys think?

Let's wait and see what the post-mortem on this is. Network connectivity issues is not necessarily the NRMP's fault. Granted, fall-back servers would have been nice (if they weren't in place already), but in the big picture, I think the NRMP does a pretty nice job.

Let's compare that with the AUA, which had a match a few years ago where the computer ran the wrong algorithm, had match results sent out, RETRACTED, and the match redone. Subsequently, some people who had originally thought they had matched to their top choice ended up not matching at all.

 

[DAN325]

I still think making it centralized is the right way to do it. Just because ERAS/NRMP did not allocate enough resources to make sure things run smoothly doesn't mean this way of doing so should be discredited. There are many systems out there that have to handle much more capacity than ERAS/NRMP like the IRS, credit cards, etc. Also, even with the best planning and support, crap just happens. I feel really bad for those who have to scramble and deal with this. Good luck and hang in there.

 

[roggan]

Wonder what changed this year on their part. Never heard of this happening in the previous years.

 

[emanlaer]

I got the unfilled list sent to me from NRMP and sent emails to many many of the positions - half came back undelivered as invalid email addresses.

The names on the unfilled list provided by NRMP does not match the names listed at ERAS - requiring to look up each program by its code number taking more time opposed to just looking at all the family medicine programs in Ohio for example - making the process so slow that by the time you apply the position is filled.

I have not been able to see the list yet at NRMP and am relying on the no doubt now outdated list they provided in an email.

Overall they have done a very crappy job at this. Very crappy.

 

[emanlaer]

4 hours and I have only been able to apply to 22 programs through ERAS. This is unbelievably slow and tedious and its rediculous it takes this long with things crashing and timing out. ugh

 

[Ronin2258]

The NRMP totally dropped the ball on this one today. Although I'm not scrambling, I know many who are, and things are not pretty to say the least.

There was talk recently about all resdency positions being forced to be under the control of the NRMP. I think today is the big reason why one organization should not be the sole entity controlling things.

What do you guys think?

I concur. Unless the servers are located in Northern Japan (no offense, and pray for the safety of people there,) I would expect full functionality at the specified time.

And I can only imagine program directors having conniptions over NRMP dropping the ball here. Both sides are panicking over it. It wouldn't surprise me if some programs pull out a few more slots in the next year because of this.

I got my post through a non-NRMP means with an opportunity opening. This would never happen if NRMP held all the cards.

I paid ERAS and NRMP for a service, as did everyone else did. While under their contract, you have to play by their rules, or forfeit your ability to get a residency in the United States. Several people on this forum have been made painfully aware of this.

I can understand the anger factor on behalf of the applicants and the programs. Both sides have pay to use this service, if memory serves. If that service is guaranteed/set in stone (they set the calendar of when things happen, after all,) I would expect things to happen at those specified times.

The problem is, they hold a monopoly on applications, so there is no recourse if something like this happens.

So, does anyone know what caused this giant cluster-f*** of a network mess?

 

[Maybeknot]

Just as a point of information, ERAS and the NRMP are separate entities. I believe the AAMC runs ERAS, and also co-sponsors (with a whole bunch of organizations) the NRMP. The fact that both are having enormous difficulties might imply something about the IT facilities of the AAMC.

Either way, ERAS/NRMP/AAMC has got some 'splainin' to do. This situation has not occurred in past years, so let's see if these organizations did anything differently this year, and let's find out what they will do differently next year to prevent this from happening again.

Hopefully, this situation won't occur on Thursday afternoon....

 

[fiji128]

I don't think this is any "accident" this totally sounds like an intentional denial-of-service attack by some enterprising scrambler(s). The following is from wikipedia:

A denial-of-service attack (DoS attack) or distributed denial-of-service attack (DDoS attack) is an attempt to make a computer resource unavailable to its intended users. Although the means to carry out, motives for, and targets of a DoS attack may vary, it generally consists of the concerted efforts of a person or people to prevent an Internet site or service from functioning efficiently or at all, temporarily or indefinitely. Perpetrators of DoS attacks typically target sites or services hosted on high-profile web servers such as banks, credit card payment gateways, and even root nameservers. The term is generally used with regards to computer networks, but is not limited to this field; for example, it is also used in reference to CPU resource management.[1]

One common method of attack involves saturating the target machine with external communications requests, such that it cannot respond to legitimate traffic, or responds so slowly as to be rendered effectively unavailable. In general terms, DoS attacks are implemented by either forcing the targeted computer(s) to reset, or consuming its resources so that it can no longer provide its intended service or obstructing the communication media between the intended users and the victim so that they can no longer communicate adequately.

Denial-of-service attacks are considered violations of the IAB's Internet proper use policy, and also violate the acceptable use policies of virtually all Internet service providers. They also commonly constitute violations of the laws of individual nations

 

[Eat Oatmeal]

I agree that this event should not serve as a reflection of the match process, but rather a reflection of the NRMP as an entity. Just like the OP, I matched but it infuriates me to see the scramblers suffer through this. As medical students we are bound to this process such that match integrity can be reasonably assured. On top of being forced to utilize the NRMP, we provide monies for an expected service. There are two important services (IMHO) that must be provided by the NRMP such that one can justify their monopolization: 1) match and scramble integrity and 2) appropriate means to do this (i.e. a functioning process to match or scramble). I feel that the NRMP has failed on both accounts by this mishap.

I disagree with some of the individuals who are saying that technical difficulties happen and it may not be the NRMP's fault. First of all, the NRMP is well aware of when they should expect high volume traffic and should have the capability to address this. The fact of the matter is that we are paying for a service that was not delivered. Server capabilities do exist that can handle traffic multiple times more than what the NRMP probably receives. I do not know how much that would cost nor what the most practical way of approaching it would be but, quite frankly, it does not matter to us. What is important is that they did not achieve their function. If this were a DNS attack one would also have to ask of whether appropriate measures were taken to avoid something like this? whether this would be a network solution or an appropriate emergency back-up plan such that applicants can proceed without the NRMP network (it seems like they were even having trouble sending the list by e-mail to applicants). They know it is a high stakes game. They know that there is a lot to lose in terms of match integrity when information is not disseminated to applicants in an equal or timely fashion.

Coming back to what the OP is saying about the NRMP. I think the SOAP is a great idea for the scramble. However, the NRMP (provider of these services) has to address its insufficiency as this allows them a tighter grip on scramble process. Another way of putting this is to consider a hypothetical situation where those who did not find a position in this years caotic scramble would try to match next year and fail, only to find themselves in the new SOAP scramble. Unless a new trust can be instilled by the NRMP, I would consider it unfair for those scramblers to be forced into a scramble that is led by the NRMP, who may have initially prevented them from scrambling (crazy sentence, I know).

The NRMP may have a good explanation for all this but I feel that it is their responsibility to prove to those who scrambled that it was not their fault and that they took the appropriate measures. If it is their fault, I would try to reclaim my $50 for principle.

I am so sorry guys.

 

[jenesaispas0005]

My first thought when I started reading the other threads about all of this BS was, as soon as they knew the websites weren't going to come back within a few minutes, why don't they just postpone the scramble until tomorrow and spend the rest of the day fixing their problems and ensuring everything runs smoothly the next day?

I didn't have to scramble (thank goodness) but I helped people out the past couple of years and understand how horrible it is without computer glitches and website failures. I just hope that everything turns out as good as it can for those of you who had to put up with this nonsense.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

My first thought when I started reading the other threads about all of this BS was, as soon as they knew the websites weren't going to come back within a few minutes, why don't they just postpone the scramble until tomorrow and spend the rest of the day fixing their problems and ensuring everything runs smoothly the next day?

I didn't have to scramble (thank goodness) but I helped people out the past couple of years and understand how horrible it is without computer glitches and website failures. I just hope that everything turns out as good as it can for those of you who had to put up with this nonsense.

There would be no way for them to delay the scramble. Programs were alerted, via email, about their open spots at 11:30AM. If I had an open spot (which I didn't), and the NRMP called me at 12:30 and said: "Sorry pal, technical difficulties, just wait until tomorrow to fill your spot" -- there would be absolutely no way I would wait. I'd call around, look for people to fill my spot.

Note that next year, with SOAP, they would be able to delay if there were technical difficulties. So there perhaps is some solace in that.

This is clearly a huge catastrophe. It will be interesting to see if this was a true DoS attack, or simply thousands of panicky unmatched applicants continuously refreshing their screens. Of note, the scramble would be very suscptible to a DoS attack as it happens in a very short, completely predictable period of time.

I agree that NRMP absolutely dropped the ball. They should have a backup plan given the critical need for timing. They could have posted the list publicly. They could have set up a completely separate, backup system (perhaps they did, and it failed also). They could have a completely separate backup system to email out the list to all registered unmatched applicants. Honestly, fixing this problem would not be all that hard (technically).

ERAS, on the other hand, has a much bigger problem. They need a website that can manage dynamic data exchange, transmit large files quickly, etc. They are much more vulnerable to this type of problem, and a solution is not as easily found.

Note that getting rid of the NRMP only trades one type of problem for another. If there are multiple matching companies, that would be a nightmare. If we get rid of the match altogether, then we have one giant scramble for everyone which would likely be horrible for all.

 

[jenesaispas0005]

This is clearly a huge catastrophe. It will be interesting to see if this was a true DoS attack, or simply thousands of panicky unmatched applicants continuously refreshing their screens. Of note, the scramble would be very suscptible to a DoS attack as it happens in a very short, completely predictable period of time.

I wonder what would happen if it was. It's just such an unfortunate situation for both programs and applicants.

 

[Eat Oatmeal]

I wonder what would happen if it was. It's just such an unfortunate situation for both programs and applicants.

What I wonder is how transparent they will be about all this?

 

[stapleit]

What I wonder is how transparent they will be about all this?

Somehow, I highly doubt there will be any.

 

[Eat Oatmeal]

Somehow, I highly doubt there will be any.

Yeah, I smell a 1-year "internal" investigation that will be long forgotten.