The future of Mare Island

[heech]

As anyone who's interviewed, or just visited TUCOM-MI could tell you, the campus isn't pretty. In fact, it's downright ugly.

Let me clarify... the campus (where the school buildings are located) itself is reasonably attractive. Green laws, updated buildings, and has a nice typical suburban feel to it. But the drive *to* the campus feels a little bit like driving through a war-zone (see: Full Metal Jacket, or Falluja). It's a former naval base in the process of redevelopment, and just not very far along in the process.

I've wanted to go to TUCOM-MI for many, many reasons... but Mare Island was always a big black mark against the school. I wasn't so concerned about the time I'd spend on MI (its only 2-4 years, after all)... but it made me question how good of an institution TUCOM-MI could be, 10-20 years from now.

Well, the good news is that things are improving. Lennar (a major home/community builder) are (as of a few months ago) finally moving on their new redevelopment plans. The first set of homes will be built by the end of this year! Complete with parks, greenbelts, basketball courts, tennis courts... looking at the map, this community seems to span the entire war-zone area, and will be gorgeous.

Find more info at the Lennar website, here:
http://www.discovermareisland.com

Starting prices for the homes will be $500k for one zone, and $750k for another. Compared to the prices for the rest of Vallejo ($400-500k)... that suggests these homes will definitely be on the upscale side.

For me at least, this totally changes my perception of the campus. (I'm officially interviewing there in a few weeks.) All of a sudden, TUCOM seems to have a long, positive future in front of it. It's not the discarded corner of some industrial trash bin... over the next 5 years, it's going be the cornerstone of a prosperous, upscale island community.

Driving down the main street, past the rusting cranes... I'll be visualizing green lawns, new stately homes... can't wait.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[calichik]

I’m starting to get tired of everyone judging TUCOM- Mare Island based on where the campus is located. That’s the only thing that is talked about. Why can’t people just look past the location/look of the school and just focus on the school itself. The education you get is what is more important. But I too am optimistic about the future plans on Mare Island. Developing a new community takes time, it doesn’t happen overnight.

Sorry, just had to vent a little…

heech, good luck with your interview. Relax and you'll do fine.

 

[kahoo99]

so what is it about the school that you like?
I'd really appreciate an answer. The web-site doesn't do the best job selling anything to me.
thanks

 

[exmike]

Dude, you realize TUCOM is only an hour from cache creek?! Thats reason enough to go. Gamble away your stafford loans

 

[heech]

so what is it about the school that you like?
I'd really appreciate an answer. The web-site doesn't do the best job selling anything to me.
thanks

Now that's also a fair statement... TUCOM hasn't really invested a lot on that darn website, has it?

The most important attribute, for me, is probably the geographic location. I have lots of family/friends in the area, and I plan on staying in the area for the extended term. Based on what I've seen of their match lists, I like my chances of doing just that. The clinical rotations Touro seems to have access to are very interesting to me.

I also think TUCOM's future looks bright, as a school. There are a ton of very qualified students in California who're typically forced to go out of state... and now TUCOM (and of course Western) gets to feast on this. The average MCAT/GPA of incoming students place TUCOM amongst the first tier within all orthopedic schools, *despite* the fact that it's such a young school, and despite the disadvantage of its location (sorry calichik, just calling it like I see it!).

I'm not saying that the grades of the incoming class can be used to rank schools... I think the relationship is more complicated than that. I think better students make better doctors, and better doctors increase the reputation of the school... a virtuous cycle.

Speaking as a Northern Californian person, I also like the clinical clerkships available to me at TUCOM (for my 3rd/4th years). I'd love to have my own local hospital... but failing that, TUCOM has affiliates in Pinole, Fairfield, 2 in Vallejo, San Francisco, Oakland, Napa, Antioch... this means I'll get to spend *at least* half of my 3rd year close to home. That, of course, also means I increase the chances I ultimately get to do my residency in the area.

(TUCOM-MI affiliates: http://www.tucom.edu/Affiliates.htm)

 

[calichik]

...The average MCAT/GPA of incoming students place TUCOM amongst the first tier within all orthopedic schools, *despite* the fact that it's such a young school, and despite the disadvantage of its location (sorry calichik, just calling it like I see it!).

it's cool

 

[sepaul]

Yes, that is right, despite it being the highest ranked and most competitive AACOM school, I dreaded going to that hellhole every day for 2 years. No offense I think staying in CA, especially Northern CA would be sweet. Someone should open up a campus in like Rocklin or Fairfield maybe Santa Rosa.

Where would you guys prefer a school?
-se

 

[MagnumDR]

I just got an acceptance letter today, but I too can't get over not only Mare Island, but the campus itself. The general upkeep on buildings seemed lacking in comparison to other schools I have visited. Hire a painter! I think that says a lot about an institution. The study rooms looked like old interrogation rooms in the library that looks like it used to be a mess hall. Just what are they spending money on? It sure isn't campus beautification or a high salaried web designer. That is way cool about plans for the future of MI, so how is TUCOM responding? I personally need a place of refuge on breaks. I wish it were different.

 

[Just D.O. It!]

I was accepted at TUCOM-Mare Island, but opted not to attend. I saw a lot of good things while there, and also things that concerned me. Having said that, I wanted to ask whether or not asbestos is a problem at TUCOM (on Mare Island)? I heard it was, and only wanted to confirm the hearsay. I was told that children couldn't come on the island? Asbestosis isn't a pretty sight.

For those attending TUCOM, don't take offense, I'm not downplaying anything at TUCOM, except for the asbestos issue, which I'm trying to clarify right now. The rumors of asbestos problems, when I interviewed there last year, were concerning to me. I'm asking this question primarily for other forum members. Perhaps asbestos isn't a problem, and I was misinformed.

Thanks.

 

[Pikevillemedstudent]

The average MCAT/GPA of incoming students place TUCOM amongst the first tier within all orthopedic schools, *despite* the fact that it's such a young school, and despite the disadvantage of its location

It is an osteopathic school not an orthopedic school. I really hope you knew that and it was just a typo.

 

[heech]

Asbestos was in some of the family housing on campus (former military barracks). There's a mandated plan for getting rid of it safely, and I think someone along the way slipped up and missed a deadline. But it's really not an on-going threat to students/staff. I personally plan on living off-campus, anyways.

The point of this thread wasn't to bash on MI. In fact, I think it's going to look *gorgeous* really soon!

 

[DRGIGGLES]

here's one long-ass message...

i could go on forever about touro-ca. anyway, to clarify a few things and to add a some points:

-asbestos... from what i've been told...and i was told this by a faculty member...nearly all of the buildings HAD asbestos problems. the biggest issue was apparently the asbestos in the floor tiles of all things. however, those buildings that are in use have had the asbestos remediated. and, of course, the classrooms for med students are brand new so it was never a problem there.

-kids on the island... a few years ago, it was true that students with families were advised not to live on the island if they had kids under 18. we were also told not to go traipsing around too much for fear of stepping on unexploded ordinance (!) as well as stumbling on to environmental badness. also, not to eat the fruit from the numerous fruit trees. this is because the navy did some nasty **** all over the island and apparently not all of it was completely remediated. (this last point is/was hotly debated.) anyway, the student family housing was all knocked down, the dirt dug up and refilled and in fact is the site of one of the housing developments mentioned above.

-the library...yep, it WAS the mess hall! and yes, the study rooms are basically like interrogation chambers. you'll be surprised, however, how much studying you can actually do in an interrogation chamber. and other things... for a while, they were talking about moving the library to another building. don't know what happened to that plan. i will say that especially with the new programs (ed, pharmacy), i can't see how that little library will accomodate so many students. plus, they may add some undergrad programs in a few years, so god only knows what will happen then.

-that brings me to development in general... most of the following is pure opinion. mare island will undoubtedly become a very desirable part of the BA to live in in the next decade or so. actually, if the housing goes up quickly, maybe in less time than that. the island is big and so are the plans. go look at the lennar site. change has been slow but it seems like things are moving now. if it all comes together, it'll be really, really nice some day. new communities, new waterfront, a nature preserve, lots of really interesting and unusual plantlife (great back story on this), some pretty cool architecture in existing buildings, a great golf course which is there already, 40 minutes to sf, and, ahem, tucom (tu-ca).

in spite of the above, yes, for NOW, it really doesn't look that great. in fact, it does look strikingly like faluja or perhaps a post war beirut. but at least some things are getting done.

as for tucom, well, tucom is WAY ambitious. i've written about them before. the students are good. the faculty is mostly good with some exceptions. the facilities are pretty good. i've certainly seen much worse. the campus has HUGE potential. i mean, even the unused buildings there actually have a stately, old campus sort of charm. but, landscaping has been kind of an after thought. so yes, on any given day you can drive on to campus and added to the depressing stuff you just drove past, it doesn't leave a nice impression. neither do the cardboard signs in front that say tucom (i **** you not.)

if all you're interested in is the phyical stuff, you can stop reading now.

for the rest of you, in my (and many, many others) opinion, the biggest problem is the admin. it blows. it's top heavy and there are a lot of administrators that a) don't do a lot of work and b) don't know what they're doing. some of them will lie to cover their tracks. i won't give you names of crappy administators but i can give you a list of broken promises/deceptions/mistreatments that's pages long. i'm not talking about silly stuff either (eg., "you said the vending machine would be filled next tuesday. it wasn't!") as for part b, i can supply examples privately if anyone is interested. someone above asked where the tuition money goes. that's a damn good question! it trickles out on to the campus. but when you leave campus, even that trickle will run dry.

i wish i could say tu-ca is a diamond in the rough but i'm not sure. many times, it just seems like another lump of coal. too bad. it really has the potential to be a GREAT medical school, osteopathic or otherwise.

anyway, to bring this to an end, if you go to tu-ca, just remember that you're going to a for-profit school with administrative problems. the campus and vallejo are tolerable for a couple years; they're getting better slowly anyway. the biggest problems you'll face as a student are mid-course policy changes and the lack of support during the clinical years. you'll get a decent pre-clinical education if you work at it. just make sure you jump through all the hoops and make sure you know what they are. the KEY is to be really, really proactive to ensure you get two good clinical years. you need to plan early and be ready to be self motivated/guided. i can also give pointers on this; those interested contact me privately.

i'll end on a positive note. if you manage to heed these last two bits of advice, i firmly believe that tu-ca can give you a top class education, even with some of the negative stuff there is now. it sounds crazy but if you do it right, i think you can make it out with an education comparable with some of the nation's best med schools (really!). you just have to do it right...

hope this tirade helps.
-drgiggles

 

[sepaul]

It is public knowledge that the US government, aka Uncle Sam, was using that stuff like it was going out of style. Unfortunately litigation is impossible because it was a military operation, however compelling the deception and lies.

All ex-military installations, especially Naval because asbestos was used in HUGE quantities, are known to be superfunds, aka the goverments special name for really huge enviornmental disasters. I would NEVER live on Mare Island, even if a house was $50,000. Unless I knew that it was totally safe.

Other cities have done similar projects with de-com'ed bases, including Fort Ord in Monterey. I know asbestos can cause lung cancer which has the highest mortality rate of all cancers. I wonder if this stuff can seep into the tap water, can it be harmful in the ground soil? Anyone know this?

 

[heech]

As someone sorta involved in real estate/construction, I can give you my informed, but not professional opinion on asbestos...

The presence of asbestos is not harmful in and of itself. It isn't a toxin, and it doesn't matter if it seeps into the tap water or ground soil. If I could open up your stomach and insert a lump of the stuff surgically, it probably wouldn't adversely affect your health (er, doubt there's research along these lines.. just repeating what I've heard).

Asbestos is only a problem when the material is disturbed, often through renovation/construction. Asbestos *fibers*, when airborne, are your only risk. If you breathe these fibers (for an extended amount of time), you have increased risk of lung cancer. Asbestos fibers are not a natural byproduct of asbestos-laced construction material; it's only when this material is handled, smashed, cut, etc... in California, asbestos is more an issue for the general contractors that work with buildings than the tenants within those buildings.

Just to put asbestos in the proper perspective... in California apartments, the current rave is to sue landlords for either the presence of second-hand cigarette smoke, or the presence of supposedly "deadly" mold. These have led to million and billion dollar settlements. On the other hand, although almost *all* buildings more than 30 years old have asbestos-laced construction, I haven't heard of personal lawsuits related to it.

 

[deleted6669]

Where would you guys prefer a school?
-se

hello...pacific northwest...oregon/washington/idaho....even alaska. lots of practicing DO's here and no school....grrrrrrr


I know comp/western has a "northwest option" but since it doesn't have any clinical sites last time I checked and you have to spend the 1st 2 yrs outside of the nw it has its drawbacks......

 

[heech]

By the way, just found this and thought I'd tack it onto this forum (lame website, took me a while to stumble across it). It's the match lists for 2003/2004 at Touro. More allopathic matches than osteopathic, and plenty of competitive ones.

http://209.209.34.25/Webdocs/Admissions/GenMatchInfo.htm

Class of 2004... matches included 2 at USC, 8 at various UC medical centers (including someone matched into surgery at UCSF... what was that about DO's not matching into competitive allopathic surgery residencies, again?).

Does anyone have match lists for Western? Thanks!

 

[sepaul]

I guess I am just super pessimistic about old de-com'ed bases. It just seems wierd.

TUCOM grads do place well I will agree. However, I just wanted more of a focus on research and it seemed to be non-existant at TUCOM. Not just projects, also exposure to a "university" setting like a UC or a large private school.

Lastly, which has nothing to do with research was the manipulation. I hope some of you TUCOM grads do oseopathic research and can convince me that there are real benefits to it. Is sure feels good though...
-se

 

[MagnumDR]

I guess I am just super pessimistic about old de-com'ed bases. It just seems wierd.

TUCOM grads do place well I will agree. However, I just wanted more of a focus on research and it seemed to be non-existant at TUCOM. Not just projects, also exposure to a "university" setting like a UC or a large private school.


-se

I asked a question about research in my interview and how available it was to students who wanted to get involved. They said there is research, but students for the most part arent involved and that I'd be too busy anyway. I agree that I will be very busy, but from what I understand, being involved in research; even if it's for a couple hours here and there, or during a summer can really help a student be more competetive for residency spots. So there is research, but limited availability for student involvement. But judging by their match list, they do a good job at placing students regardless.

 

[tkim]

By the way, just found this and thought I'd tack it onto this forum (lame website, took me a while to stumble across it). It's the match lists for 2003/2004 at Touro. More allopathic matches than osteopathic, and plenty of competitive ones.

http://209.209.34.25/Webdocs/Admissions/GenMatchInfo.htm

Class of 2004... matches included 2 at USC, 8 at various UC medical centers (including someone matched into surgery at UCSF... what was that about DO's not matching into competitive allopathic surgery residencies, again?).

Does anyone have match lists for Western? Thanks!

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=2043063&postcount=5

 

[bobo]

Class of 2004... matches included 2 at USC, 8 at various UC medical centers (including someone matched into surgery at UCSF... what was that about DO's not matching into competitive allopathic surgery residencies, again?).

Umm, I wouldn't get too excited about that match - in 2004 6 out of 9 prelim spots at UCSF in the surgery program went unfilled. Most people avoid surgical prelims like the pneumonic plague.

 

[heech]

Mare Island conversion wins praise

Amanda Leiker of Sacramento, one of those fellows, lived in Vallejo as a child. "I've been here before, and it's really exciting to see how far it's come in just the past year and half," she said. "It seems like something is happening all the time. It's exciting to see it all coming together."

http://www.timesheraldonline.com/Stories/0,1413,296~31531~2692327,00.html

"We're here getting an update on what the city's doing with Mare Island, and from our perspective, it's tremendous," Gallegos said. "There's a lot of development going on all over the island. There doesn't seem to be any place on the island where something isn't happening."

http://www.thereporter.com/news/ci_2552123

 

[calichik]

Mare Island conversion wins praise

Amanda Leiker of Sacramento, one of those fellows, lived in Vallejo as a child. "I've been here before, and it's really exciting to see how far it's come in just the past year and half," she said. "It seems like something is happening all the time. It's exciting to see it all coming together."

http://www.timesheraldonline.com/Stories/0,1413,296~31531~2692327,00.html

"We're here getting an update on what the city's doing with Mare Island, and from our perspective, it's tremendous," Gallegos said. "There's a lot of development going on all over the island. There doesn't seem to be any place on the island where something isn't happening."

http://www.thereporter.com/news/ci_2552123

Wow, that great! I'm eager to see what's new on the island when I go there in the Fall.

 

[Coach]

Umm, I wouldn't get too excited about that match - in 2004 6 out of 9 prelim spots at UCSF in the surgery program went unfilled. Most people avoid surgical prelims like the pneumonic plague.

The pneumonic plague is bad @ss

 

[heech]

For those that're curious, looks like Touro has updated part of their website with a few new pictures:

http://www.tu.edu/gallery/

 

[kelley201]

For those that're curious, looks like Touro has updated part of their website with a few new pictures:

http://www.tu.edu/gallery/

Thanks for the link.

 

[DermpathDO]

I just got an acceptance letter today, but I too can't get over not only Mare Island, but the campus itself. The general upkeep on buildings seemed lacking in comparison to other schools I have visited. Hire a painter! I think that says a lot about an institution. The study rooms looked like old interrogation rooms in the library that looks like it used to be a mess hall. Just what are they spending money on? It sure isn't campus beautification or a high salaried web designer. That is way cool about plans for the future of MI, so how is TUCOM responding? I personally need a place of refuge on breaks. I wish it were different.

The Library did used to be a mess hall! The entire campus used to be a intelligence school for the military and the Old Navy Hospital is right next door. Yes the adjacent buildings have not olnly asbestos issues but also earthquake code issues. Actually you guys need to realize that Touro MI and Touro Nevada are both being used as cash cows by the pres of Touro in NYC. Medical school tuition is used to..pay your professors, pay for some of the equipment, but anyhting left over goes straight to NY. Plant modifications are way down on the list of things to use money for.

 

[heech]

The Library did used to be a mess hall! The entire campus used to be a intelligence school for the military and the Old Navy Hospital is right next door. Yes the adjacent buildings have not olnly asbestos issues but also earthquake code issues. Actually you guys need to realize that Touro MI and Touro Nevada are both being used as cash cows by the pres of Touro in NYC. Medical school tuition is used to..pay your professors, pay for some of the equipment, but anyhting left over goes straight to NY. Plant modifications are way down on the list of things to use money for.

Just for purposes of disclosure (since context/background tends to be important in these things), I thought I'd point out DermpathDO isn't a Touro student.

And I for one would be interested in a link to references on "earthquake code issues" with the Mare Island campus buildings.