The HRSA predicts an oversupply of ~50,000 pharmacists by 2025; similar predictions for NPs/PAs

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So one of the PA schools I am looking at applying to would most likely make me re-take most of my pre-reqs (gen bio 1 and 2, gen chem 1 and 2, organic chem 1 and 2, statistics) since they have "expiration dates" on how long ago the classes could have been taken and my classes are too old. Maybe they'll make an exception for me, but I doubt it. Looks like I might be stuck with applying to AA schools since most of them don't have these kinds of limitations on how old pre-reqs can be.

Seems like that would be almost two additional years of college work.... my pharmacy school had the same time span requirements, I Think that even if it's Not an explicitly stated requirement, it's still enforced at most schools... .. now you have to consider potentially adding two more years to your timeline. Which means you can not assume the PA job market will continue as favorable, but likely to remain much better than pharmacy...

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Seems like that would be almost two additional years of college work.... my pharmacy school had the same time span requirements, I Think that even if it's Not an explicitly stated requirement, it's still enforced at most schools... .. now you have to consider potentially adding two more years to your timeline. Which means you can not assume the PA job market will continue as favorable, but likely to remain much better than pharmacy...

I can tell you that I can't imagine spending two more years "re-doing" my college classes, so I will probably just have to apply to PA and AA programs that don't have expiration dates on coursework. The good news is that only one AA program does, so I will just apply to all the others. Another possibility is the DO post-bac program that only takes a year to complete and guarantees students a spot in the next year's DO class. If I would have to spend two years retaking most of my college courses, then DO school via the post-bac route potentially becomes a quicker route than PA school.
 
Just go ahead and do the DO post bac program if you are so dead set on it. It does sound like most of them require you to write the MCAT. Is there one that weaves it?
 
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I think drfluffymd pointed out that a competitive McAt is required... if it was that easy to just do postbach and gain admission to a do school, we'd see a lot more DO... I don't know how you would do on an mcat if some of the courses that are tested were taken almost a decade ago... mcat is no joke and people have said about 20 times harder than pcat. Having said that, if I had to do it all over gain myself; I'd try dO or take a chance at caribian med school
 
Just go ahead and do the DO post bac program if you are so dead set on it. It does sound like most of them require you to write the MCAT. Is there one that weaves it?

I'm just surprised that the DO post-bac program (the one offered by VCOM that I was looking at before) would actually be a quicker route than going to PA school, unless I can find one that will accept my old pre-reqs. Regarding the MCAT, the VCOM post-bac program waives it as an admissions requirement, meaning that someone can apply without having taken the MCAT and get accepted, but they still have to take it at some point in order to qualify to attend DO school during the year following completion of the post-bac. Since the DO post-bac program would begin next fall for me, it would make the most sense to study for the MCAT over the spring and take it during the summer. I don't think the minimum score requirements are that stringent (something like a 492-494), but it will still be a good idea to do lots of studying for it if I decide to go that route. I just don't know if I want to spend that many more years in school/residency to most likely end up as a primary care doc making $150-$200k for working 60+ hours/week, especially when I can be an AA and make $150k or close to it for working 40 hours/week. If I do go the DO route, I would do it with the goal of completing an IM or PM&R residency, followed by a 1-year fellowship program (e.g., a 1-year pain fellowship after the PM&R residency). This is what some of the people I went to undergrad with are doing.

Edited to add: if there is a dental school post-bac out there that guarantees an acceptance to all the students who complete it with a minimum GPA/DAT score (like the VCOM post-bac), then that is an option to consider as well. In my area, Aspen Dental is hiring dentists to work 1 day/week for a base salary of $90k/year, plus commission/bonus. Apparently the average earnings of these dentists who work 1 day/week is $120k after the first year. However, I doubt there are any dental schools out there that offer a post-bac program, simply because they have so many competitive applicants applying to their programs that they don't need to.
 
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I think drfluffymd pointed out that a competitive McAt is required... if it was that easy to just do postbach and gain admission to a do school, we'd see a lot more DO... I don't know how you would do on an mcat if some of the courses that are tested were taken almost a decade ago... mcat is no joke and people have said about 20 times harder than pcat. Having said that, if I had to do it all over gain myself; I'd try dO or take a chance at caribian med school

For the post-bac program I'm looking at, the MCAT is not required for acceptance to the program. It just has to be taken prior to finishing the post-bac program.
 
Do.not.fall for the postbacc trap. Those are for people who need to complete prereqs. Most of them out there exist to make money. They do not guarantee anybody a seat in med school at all. They are worse than pharm schools because at least the latter grant you a useful degree.
Were you in PA school before? Just go back there!

?? The one I'm looking at actually does guarantee students who finish with a minimum GPA/MCAT score a seat in their DO program. It involves taking classes similar to those offered in medical school, not the pre-med pre-reqs.
 
"Hey as long as you got this GPA, you're in", sounds easy? There's always a catch with those programs. There are things they don't tell you. First, what percentage of students actually succeed? Even if it's 80% which is the most optimistic scenario, it's not a guarantee. If you were in the 20% that didn't succeed, what would you do with your life after that then? Your options are very narrowed compared to a 21-year-old's. I wouldn't even advise a 21 y.o. to sign up for this type of postbacc given the enormous risk. The only postbacc worth doing is prereq.

Second, in this program, you would be taking real MEDICAL classes. Not undergrad. Not grad. You would be graded against the average of their med school class. The only way to get that acceptance is to score WAY higher than their average. My medical class' average is always in the 80's, which still ONLY translates to a B/B+ (3.0-3.3). And that is NOT because the coursework is easy. It's because everybody is smart and highly motivated. Do you think you can score in the 90s in real medical coursework? In all med schools, there are students who are shocked to realize that they're struggling for the first time in their lives. And look at the VCOM program - holy ****: Graduate Certificate Premedical Program | VCOM - The Edward Via College of Osteopathic Medicine . You are required to get at least 3.6 GPA AND positive faculty evaluation to get a seat in DO school. Forget it. These programs don't tell you how hard it is to get 3.6 (90's) in med school!

I'm probably wasting my time typing this post instead of studying, but reading your posts in this forum, I can't stand watching you about to make the biggest mistake in your life. Too many things in this country exist to make money off students nowadays.

You are insane for jumping at this point, worse, without any guarantee. Absolutely insane. Why is PA not good enough for you? The path to actually graduate and become a practicing physician is grueling even AFTER you've passed all the hoops to get in. The ideal scenario is you picking up where you left off at a PA school. If not, you can start over; the PA program is only 28 months long, right?

And, last but not least, don't ****ing jump ship without a guarantee! Take a Leave of absence at your pharm school and only leave when you get a PA acceptance again.

Are you sure that the VCOM classes are actual medical school courses, though? From reading their website, it sounded like they were similar courses but not quite the exact same classes.
 
Are you sure that the VCOM classes are actual medical school courses, though? From reading their website, it sounded like they were similar courses but not quite the exact same classes.

I can attest to what he said, except for different schools. PCOM for example is medical school classes for their biomed program. From their class of 60 they only took 4 into their DO program.
 
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There are no guarantees. Here's a link to a post about a guy who went allopathic and did not get a residency. I assume he didn't want to apply to EM or FM (maybe because he didn't want to "settle") and now he's screwed financially and career-wise

Student loan debt 500k+ with <70k/yr job. • r/personalfinance
There must be some serious red flags about that applicant that he is not disclosing. US MD graduate and passed all his boards would at bare minimum get an interview for EM or FM. While graduates are catching up to residency spots, I don't think it has gotten to the point where MD grads from American schools cannot land even bottom of the barrel residencies like Psych.
 
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If something sounds too good to be true, it generally is... see example of being easily accepted to pharmacy school... i think if DO school admission was that easy, we would not see people going to the Carribian schools... I know someone who went to bost bachelors program to get into MD program in Chicago, but didn't meet the final criteria and didn't get a seat.
 
Here are the medical school admission stats for VCOM's program:

Statistics and Demographics | VCOM - The Edward Via College of Osteopathic Medicine

Looks like 65-75% of students who do the program get accepted to medical school. Could be worse. Either way, I was just throwing it out there as one of several alternative plans. Also, depending on how high someone scores on the MCAT, their GPA in the post-bac program "only" needs to be a 3.5.

Even if my end goal happens to end up being DO school, PA school may be a better route if I can get accepted to one since there is now a PA to DO bridge program (like I mentioned in another post). It shortens medical school by the first year, which is better than nothing. I still have a feeling that getting accepted to an AA school again would be the best route for me to take.
 
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Do what you want; the reality is what it is. If you think these are "my" stats because I made them up, you are sadly mistaken. If the stats are an accurate representation of the current and future job market, it doesn't make any difference what you or anyone else thinks of them. Is that how you rationalize statistics you don't like the sound of -- by simply disagreeing with them? I guess people think I'm making this stuff up.

The reason nobody takes your stats seriously is because you have no hard math behind it and are arbitrarily assigning percentages to them. In this thread alone, you've stated unemployment will be 30%, 30-40%, 50-66%, a "hypothetical"90%, then 60%. Go ahead and look through your past posts.
Yes, there will most definitely be a saturation. It was discussed at length and with mathematical detail in a previous thread about the 2014 BLS projected job outlook about a year ago. I'm personally leaning towards 25-30%.

I took a look at the gasworks link you posted. Yes, those salaries are quite lucrative, though that same post seemed to indicate that job availability > income for you. Assuming that you're still only interested in living in Georgia, looking through that site, there are what...a total of 9 open jobs in Georgia? I'm somewhat doubtful indeed.com will fare much better. Also consider that Georgia has 2 of the ~15 AA schools nationwide and between them around 50 graduates total. I would imagine employers here would prefer Emory graduates, or to an a less extent Georgia graduates. I'm assuming based on your history that you're unlikely to get admitted to either.

I would say PA is your best bet. The AA field is small and very saturated in Atlanta (and the two job postings there isn't going to convince me otherwise), and you're probably already well known in their community.
 
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The reason nobody takes your stats seriously is because you have no hard math behind it and are arbitrarily assigning percentages to them. In this thread alone, you've stated unemployment will be 30%, 30-40%, 50-66%, a "hypothetical"90%, then 60%. Go ahead and look through your past posts.
Yes, there will most definitely be a saturation. It was discussed at length and with mathematical detail in a previous thread about the 2014 BLS projected job outlook about a year ago. I'm personally leaning towards 25-30%.

I took a look at the gasworks link you posted. Yes, those salaries are quite lucrative, though that same post seemed to indicate that job availability > income for you. Assuming that you're still only interested in living in Georgia, looking through that site, there are what...a total of 9 open jobs in Georgia? I'm somewhat doubtful indeed.com will fare much better. Also consider that Georgia has 2 of the ~15 AA schools nationwide and between them around 50 graduates total. I would imagine employers here would prefer Emory graduates, or to an a less extent Georgia graduates. I'm assuming based on your history that you're unlikely to get admitted to either.

I would say PA is your best bet. The AA field is small and very saturated in Atlanta (and the two job postings there isn't going to convince me otherwise), and you're probably already well known in their community.

The funny thing about the AA profession is that many of the jobs in that field are not posted by groups; instead, many AA students receive their first job offers from facilities they rotate through. One of my former classmates was offered a job by an anesthesia group in Atlanta that doesn't post on Gaswork.com or any other jobs page (many of them don't post online job listings as a matter of policy). Atlanta may seem saturated to you based on what you saw on Gaswork.com, but the student I know was offered $140k to start plus call pay, benefits, and 6 weeks of PTO + 7 paid holidays to start.

Here is the ironic thing about comparing the AA vs. pharmacist job markets for me: when I first decided to apply to pharmacy school, I thought I liked how pharmacists could work in more areas in a geographic sense, whereas AAs basically work in major medical facilities in medium/large cities in GA (e.g., Atlanta, Savannah, Macon, Augusta, Columbus, Albany, just a few smaller towns like Tifton, etc.). In fact, even in cities where AAs can work, there are maybe 1 or 2 facilities where they can work (this is the case in cities like Savannah, Augusta, Columbus, Newnan).

But then I started pharmacy school in the fall, and by the end of the first semester, my area as well as most other cities in GA had become saturated. My perception that the job market had changed was confirmed by the updated PDI stats from the Pharmacy Manpower project (or whatever they call it these days), which now lists GA, NC, SC, and TN as all being significantly saturated with more pharmacists than jobs.

So that begs the question -- what is a better proposition: to be in a field that is geographically limited in the sense that only certain anesthesia groups/hospitals in certain cities hire people in your profession as a matter of policy (I.e., being an AA), or to be in a field where you can technically work anywhere in the country but that advantage is a moot point because of extreme job market saturation that probably isn't going to end for many years?

For me, I realize that I would rather be in a profession that may be somewhat geographically limited in terms of job opportunities, and yet still has a healthy job market in the sense that there are actually JOBS in these cities and towns. Pharmacists' ability to work anywhere in the country doesn't really matter anymore since there basically are only a few jobs in a few select, undesirable BFE regions these days.

Ironically, the nice thing about the AA profession is that they don't work in BFE, simply because anesthesiologists don't want to live and work in those areas and so they have largely been taken over by independently-practicing CRNAs.

BTW, even though there are only 2 AA schools in GA, the students at the other AA programs throughout the country rotate at sites in GA. The schools in FL, DC, TX, OH, etc. all permit students to rotate at sites in GA/FL. In fact, that is one thing AA students don't like about AA school -- many of them want to do all their clinical rotations in south FL, Tampa, DC, or some other big city, but with the broad distribution of "AA-friendly" sites, most students have to do at least several rotations in cities in GA, SC, etc. For example, someone might rotate for 2 months in south FL, a month in Atlanta, a month in Savannah, a month in Augusta, etc. It's kind of hard to explain if you aren't familiar with the profession, but there really isn't as much of a regional preference in regards to hiring practices as you'd think.
 
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One last thing... regarding the point you made about me probably being well-known in the AA community... all I have to say is, not so fast. My AA school class still has at least a few months to go before they graduate, and the attrition rate for the class is already over 20%. So obviously, I'm not the only person who has failed out of AA school. But I'm starting to notice a trend here -- whenever I list an example of a profession that really is objectively better than pharmacy, people simply say, "sure, it's better off than pharmacy, but it doesn't matter for you because you won't get accepted to that anyways."

Even if I have a 0% chance of getting into AA school, it simply doesn't make sense to spend 3+ more years pursing a career in a field that is GUARANTEED to be saturated (even if the unemployment rate is "only" 30%). It's like planting the seeds for a certain crop that everyone knows will have no demand in a year or two.

Either way, even if my chances of getting accepted to an AA program are low, it doesn't hurt to apply. At least there are several new-ish programs, such as one in Indiana and one in Connecticut. Even if I have to take an extra year off to make my application more competitive again, it would be worth it because of how much better the AA job market, salaries, PTO, and virtually all other factors are. Maybe I'll be blacklisted as an applicant, but AA program admissions aren't as competitive as you think since they don't really get any applicants from NY, NJ, CA, etc.:


Matriculant Statistics
 
One last thing... regarding the point you made about me probably being well-known in the AA community... all I have to say is, not so fast. My AA school class still has at least a few months to go before they graduate, and the attrition rate for the class is already over 20%. So obviously, I'm not the only person who has failed out of AA school. But I'm starting to notice a trend here -- whenever I list an example of a profession that really is objectively better than pharmacy, people simply say, "sure, it's better off than pharmacy, but it doesn't matter for you because you won't get accepted to that anyways."

Even if I have a 0% chance of getting into AA school, it simply doesn't make sense to spend 3+ more years pursing a career in a field that is GUARANTEED to be saturated (even if the unemployment rate is "only" 30%). It's like planting the seeds for a certain crop that everyone knows will have no demand in a year or two.

Either way, even if my chances of getting accepted to an AA program are low, it doesn't hurt to apply. At least there are several new-ish programs, such as one in Indiana and one in Connecticut. Even if I have to take an extra year off to make my application more competitive again, it would be worth it because of how much better the AA job market, salaries, PTO, and virtually all other factors are. Maybe I'll be blacklisted as an applicant, but AA program admissions aren't as competitive as you think since they don't really get any applicants from NY, NJ, CA, etc.:


Matriculant Statistics

Wait... so are you doing PA or AA now?
 
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Wait... so are you doing PA or AA now?

Would prefer AA, but applying to both and going for PA school if that's all I get accepted to. I have relegated myself to having to pay back my loans via IBR/REPAYE, so at this point, I would be willing to consider going to PA school and then AA school if I have to. Since loans is no longer a factor, I look at it like this: doing both programs (PA and AA) wouldn't only take 6-8 months longer than it takes to complete pharmacy school alone. Then again, I might graduate from PA school and just be glad that I finished something worthwhile and decide to be done.
 
Would prefer AA, but applying to both and going for PA school if that's all I get accepted to. I have relegated myself to having to pay back my loans via IBR/REPAYE, so at this point, I would be willing to consider going to PA school and then AA school if I have to. Since loans is no longer a factor, I look at it like this: doing both programs (PA and AA) wouldn't only take 6-8 months longer than it takes to complete pharmacy school alone. Then again, I might graduate from PA school and just be glad that I finished something worthwhile and decide to be done.

The CASPA 2017-2018 application cycle opens on April 27th - that's less than a month away. I hope you don't change your mind again before then.
 
The funny thing about the AA profession is that many of the jobs in that field are not posted by groups; instead, many AA students receive their first job offers from facilities they rotate through. One of my former classmates was offered a job by an anesthesia group in Atlanta that doesn't post on Gaswork.com or any other jobs page (many of them don't post online job listings as a matter of policy). Atlanta may seem saturated to you based on what you saw on Gaswork.com, but the student I know was offered $140k to start plus call pay, benefits, and 6 weeks of PTO + 7 paid holidays to start.

Here is the ironic thing about comparing the AA vs. pharmacist job markets for me: when I first decided to apply to pharmacy school, I thought I liked how pharmacists could work in more areas in a geographic sense, whereas AAs basically work in major medical facilities in medium/large cities in GA (e.g., Atlanta, Savannah, Macon, Augusta, Columbus, Albany, just a few smaller towns like Tifton, etc.). In fact, even in cities where AAs can work, there are maybe 1 or 2 facilities where they can work (this is the case in cities like Savannah, Augusta, Columbus, Newnan).

Ironically, the nice thing about the AA profession is that they don't work in BFE, simply because anesthesiologists don't want to live and work in those areas and so they have largely been taken over by independently-practicing CRNAs.

BTW, even though there are only 2 AA schools in GA, the students at the other AA programs throughout the country rotate at sites in GA. The schools in FL, DC, TX, OH, etc. all permit students to rotate at sites in GA/FL. In fact, that is one thing AA students don't like about AA school -- many of them want to do all their clinical rotations in south FL, Tampa, DC, or some other big city, but with the broad distribution of "AA-friendly" sites, most students have to do at least several rotations in cities in GA, SC, etc. For example, someone might rotate for 2 months in south FL, a month in Atlanta, a month in Savannah, a month in Augusta, etc. It's kind of hard to explain if you aren't familiar with the profession, but there really isn't as much of a regional preference in regards to hiring practices as you'd think.

What? Policy? Most HR policies are to always list an online posting on their own website, even if the position is already filled. Don't give me that crap that somehow, every anesthetist group decided to go against all convention and adopt some inane policy never to post their job listings online. Also, giving me one data point about someone's salary/benefits doesn't tell me anything about job availability.

I'm warning you right now: AA in Atlanta is saturated. It's only a matter of time before the other larger cities in Georgia also become saturated. You think it's not going to happen even though Georgia "only" has 2 AA schools even though there's only ~12 schools total? You say Georgia isn't a popular choice, but just look at where the other schools are located: Missouri, Ohio, Colorado, ect. Other than the Florida sites (which lo and behold, also has 2 programs and is right next to Georgia) you listed, the Georgia sites would be topping the list.

This isn't to say you should stay in pharmacy. I'm saying this because you're exhibiting the same problems that got you into this mess in the first place. Everybody told you pharmacy was saturating and you ignored the signs. And I'm giving you a warning right now that if/when you graduate AA, the job market will be tough. Maybe not as tough as pharmacy, but not nearly as easy as you seem to think it is.
 
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What? Policy? Most HR policies are to always list an online posting on their own website, even if the position is already filled. Don't give me that crap that somehow, every anesthetist group decided to go against all convention and adopt some inane policy never to post their job listings online. Also, giving me one data point about someone's salary/benefits doesn't tell me anything about job availability.

I'm warning you right now: AA in Atlanta is saturated. It's only a matter of time before the other larger cities in Georgia also become saturated. You think it's not going to happen even though Georgia "only" has 2 AA schools even though there's only ~12 schools total? You say Georgia isn't a popular choice, but just look at where the other schools are located: Missouri, Ohio, Colorado, ect. Other than the Florida sites (which lo and behold, also has 2 programs and is right next to Georgia) you listed, the Georgia sites would be topping the list.

This isn't to say you should stay in pharmacy. I'm saying this because you're exhibiting the same problems that got you into this mess in the first place. Everybody told you pharmacy was saturating and you ignored the signs. And I'm giving you a warning right now that if/when you graduate AA, the job market will be tough. Maybe not as tough as pharmacy, but not nearly as easy as you seem to think it is.

And the plot thickens...
 
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The CASPA 2017-2018 application cycle opens on April 27th - that's less than a month away. I hope you don't change your mind again before then.

Change my mind to what? No alternatives left
 
What? Policy? Most HR policies are to always list an online posting on their own website, even if the position is already filled. Don't give me that crap that somehow, every anesthetist group decided to go against all convention and adopt some inane policy never to post their job listings online. Also, giving me one data point about someone's salary/benefits doesn't tell me anything about job availability.

I'm warning you right now: AA in Atlanta is saturated. It's only a matter of time before the other larger cities in Georgia also become saturated. You think it's not going to happen even though Georgia "only" has 2 AA schools even though there's only ~12 schools total? You say Georgia isn't a popular choice, but just look at where the other schools are located: Missouri, Ohio, Colorado, ect. Other than the Florida sites (which lo and behold, also has 2 programs and is right next to Georgia) you listed, the Georgia sites would be topping the list.

This isn't to say you should stay in pharmacy. I'm saying this because you're exhibiting the same problems that got you into this mess in the first place. Everybody told you pharmacy was saturating and you ignored the signs. And I'm giving you a warning right now that if/when you graduate AA, the job market will be tough. Maybe not as tough as pharmacy, but not nearly as easy as you seem to think it is.

Maybe the AA job market will be tougher when I graduate, but I know that where I live, groups are still offering sign-on bonuses to AAs/CRNAs. And I know it sounds bizarre, but there really are some anesthesia groups out there that prefer to hire people based on word of mouth, clinical experience, having them do a locums shift at their facility, etc. This is what experienced AAs who are in charge of hiring for their groups told me several years ago (again, it is only some of them AFAIK) so I'm just going on what I was told.

I'm willing to take the risk that the AA field will be more saturated in GA by the time I would graduate. To me, the fact that there are actually jobs in most medium-sized GA cities makes it more promising than pharmacy. And like I said previously in the thread, I'm not willing to move to BFE Kansas, Oklahoma, etc. to do any job, so if I actually did graduate from pharmacy school and my only prospects for getting a job were to move to one of those kinds of areas, I would be going back to school to do something else anyways. A mildly saturated field (like AA *might* be in a few years) is better than one that is totally saturated in every civilized area of the country.

BTW, another thing that especially sucks about pharmacy is that not even doing a residency would be likely to help someone get a job in a non-BFE city in the southeast. The residency program here graduates 15 residents per year, and even the DOP told me they haven't hired one of them as a staff pharmacist in something like 2 years.
 
Maybe the AA job market will be tougher when I graduate, but I know that where I live, groups are still offering sign-on bonuses to AAs/CRNAs. And I know it sounds bizarre, but there really are some anesthesia groups out there that prefer to hire people based on word of mouth, clinical experience, having them do a locums shift at their facility, etc. This is what experienced AAs who are in charge of hiring for their groups told me several years ago (again, it is only some of them AFAIK) so I'm just going on what I was told.

I'm willing to take the risk that the AA field will be more saturated in GA by the time I would graduate. To me, the fact that there are actually jobs in most medium-sized GA cities makes it more promising than pharmacy. And like I said previously in the thread, I'm not willing to move to BFE Kansas, Oklahoma, etc. to do any job, so if I actually did graduate from pharmacy school and my only prospects for getting a job were to move to one of those kinds of areas, I would be going back to school to do something else anyways. A mildly saturated field (like AA *might* be in a few years) is better than one that is totally saturated in every civilized area of the country.

BTW, another thing that especially sucks about pharmacy is that not even doing a residency would be likely to help someone get a job in a non-BFE city in the southeast. The residency program here graduates 15 residents per year, and even the DOP told me they haven't hired one of them as a staff pharmacist in something like 2 years.

I feel like I'm talking to a wall, so this will be my last post in response to you. First off, I'm the person who told you about that residency program in the first place, and that if you applied there's a good chance you would have to move to a BFE area for a job. There's no need to tell me about it since I knew about it years ago when I warned you about pharmacy the first time around before you applied to pharmacy school.

Also, AA isn't some special butterfly in regards to the hiring process. Whoever told you that they hire without job postings probably neglected to mention it. Either that or your memory is failing you, as I already consider yours unreliable.

Sign-on bonuses were common for pharmacy just a few years ago, and some areas still have them. They're not an indicator of the job market. The fact that there are a declining number of jobs in Atlanta, but still some jobs available in some of the mid-sized cities should be seen as the trend. This was the state of affairs when you first applied to pharmacy, and the same thing will happen to AA. Use all the "maybes" or "mights" you want to try to ignore it, it won't change the job environment in Georgia.
 
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I feel like I'm talking to a wall, so this will be my last post in response to you. First off, I'm the person who told you about that residency program in the first place, and that if you applied there's a good chance you would have to move to a BFE area for a job. There's no need to tell me about it since I knew about it years ago when I warned you about pharmacy the first time around before you applied to pharmacy school.

Also, AA isn't some special butterfly in regards to the hiring process. Whoever told you that they hire without job postings probably neglected to mention it. Either that or your memory is failing you, as I already consider yours unreliable.

Sign-on bonuses were common for pharmacy just a few years ago, and some areas still have them. They're not an indicator of the job market. The fact that there are a declining number of jobs in Atlanta, but still some jobs available in some of the mid-sized cities should be seen as the trend. This was the state of affairs when you first applied to pharmacy, and the same thing will happen to AA. Use all the "maybes" or "mights" you want to try to ignore it, it won't change the job environment in Georgia.

I guess it is a moot point to post this since you declared you aren't going to respond to me anymore, but what actually makes you convinced that the AA job market is heading towards saturation? The fact that it only takes a ~2-year master's degree to gain entry to and pays six figures? For a broader look at the anesthesia job market in GA, check out the current job postings for CRNAs, who are hired by virtually all practices in GA (whereas AAs are only hired by some as a matter of policy due to factors such as practice models and politics):

GasWork.com - Search - CRNA Jobs

For some reason, I can't post a direct link to their CRNA job listings for GA, but there are currently almost 60 of them, and many of them are in Atlanta. Of course, you might say that that's all good and everything for CRNAs, but it doesn't apply to AAs. That's absolutely the case right now, but there are actually plans to create AA-to-CRNA bridge programs, so going to AA school now could potentially be a step towards becoming a CRNA, just like how going to general PA school could potentially lead to someone going to DO school sometime down the road since there are now PA-to-DO bridge programs.

But even if you end up being 100% right about the AA job market heading towards saturation, I'm still willing to take that risk. Maybe going to PA school first and then considering AA school later on would be a better route (an AA I know locally recommended that I do this a few years ago). Either way, I can't afford to not apply to both programs so I can maximize my chances of getting accepted to SOME program.

Also, you are absolutely right that you were the first person who told me about the residency program situation here. I thought you must have been exaggerating, so I got in touch with the DOP at one of the local hospitals that my family has known for years because I wanted to find out the "true" story. Guess what? They said you were speaking the 100% truth and that it is simply cheaper for the hospitals around here to hire more and more residents every year instead of new pharmacists. Also, the DOP (I don't want to be too specific, but you would probably know who I'm talking about if I started name dropping) said that a number of veteran hospital pharmacists (I.e., pharmacists who have been practicing since the early 1980s) were recently fired by several of the hospitals here -- including the spouse of another DOP. That's right: the DOP at one facility was apparently forced to fire his/her own husband/wife, in addition to the other experienced hospital pharmacists who have been fired.

This field is a joke; every time a new report is published showing that the job market is getting worse, someone from the APhA or AACP writes an article in the Pharmacy Times where they talk about how the saturation will be a GOOD thing because it will give patients more choices and lower prices and force unemployed new grads to "expand the boundaries of pharmacy" to create their own jobs. In other words, the so-called leaders of pharmacy are not only trying to save the job market -- they're actively trying to make it worse and work against pharmacists.

Like I said above, you may be absolutely right about the AA/CRNA job market heading towards saturation, but I am willing to simply take my chances at this point. I have the same mentality towards the PA profession if I end up only getting accepted to those programs (if I'm even lucky enough to get accepted to any of them). At least they aren't led by lobby groups that are driven by the malicious intent to make things worse for their constituencies.
 
That's funny. Is that your attempt at a drive-by put-down? Maybe I'm a joke too, but how can modern pharmacy and the job market NOT also be a joke?

Again, don't put words in my mouth. Is the job market tough? As it's been repeated to you in THIRTEEN pages and other threads, yes we agree it is. Is all these new schools opening a joke? Yes it is. However the biggest joke is you. Countless people have given you valuable advice, yet you continue to spew walls of text repeating the same concept and contents over and over and over again. You have done countless research into this. Yet you're telling me you didn't do this a year ago when the data was all the same before you made the jump to pharmacy school? All of this didn't just fall out of the sky yesterday. Now you've become so bitter you call the whole profession of pharmacy a joke. I call BS on the job market being the sole reason why you're leaving, or attempting, to leave another field. So no, this isn't me attempting to put you down, this is me simply stating a fact in you've become a joke. You've become the butt of jokes in the forums. It's honestly kind of sad since you seem like a very bright, albeit very stubborn, person. Take the advice given to you before. It's time for action, not words. I wish you the best in your journey back to PA or AA school. But instead of making yourself look more like a fool, prove us all wrong and come back with your success story getting into PA or AA school, not constantly lurking on the forums of a field you think is a joke and are dying to leave.
 
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Again, don't put words in my mouth. Is the job market tough? As it's been repeated to you in THIRTEEN pages and other threads, yes we agree it is. Is all these new schools opening a joke? Yes it is. However the biggest joke is you. Countless people have given you valuable advice, yet you continue to spew walls of text repeating the same concept and contents over and over and over again. You have done countless research into this. Yet you're telling me you didn't do this a year ago when the data was all the same before you made the jump to pharmacy school? All of this didn't just fall out of the sky yesterday. Now you've become so bitter you call the whole profession of pharmacy a joke. I call BS on the job market being the sole reason why you're leaving, or attempting, to leave another field. So no, this isn't me attempting to put you down, this is me simply stating a fact in you've become a joke. You've become the butt of jokes in the forums. It's honestly kind of sad since you seem like a very bright, albeit very stubborn, person. Take the advice given to you before. It's time for action, not words. I wish you the best in your journey back to PA or AA school. But instead of making yourself look more like a fool, prove us all wrong and come back with your success story getting into PA or AA school, not constantly lurking on the forums of a field you think is a joke and are dying to leave.

So you're offended that I put down your field. Get over it. I already admitted that I made a mistake by going to pharmacy school. Why wouldn't the job market be someone's sole reason to want to leave pharmacy? A future that involves likely having no choice but to move to a BFE wasteland is a pretty big contingency factor that would discourage a lot of people from pursuing a profession. This profession is establishing residency as a "de facto" requirement to qualify for hospital jobs, and yet many hospitals are not even hiring their own residency program graduates because it's cheaper to just keep using residents. Retail chains are hiring graduates to work 32 hours/week or fewer. The lobby groups that are supposed to be supporting the profession are instead advocating for conditions to become even worse because they think it promotes the perception that they're "in it for the patients." Like I said, the field is becoming a joke. Honestly, I think that the notion of someone with my academic history successfully moving on to a field with much better prospects (such as PA/AA school) doesn't sit well with people, because someone like me is supposed to be a failure, and I should feel lucky to even be in pharmacy school. It's almost like it's too much for someone to process to think about me moving on to a career where I'll be better off than they are/will be.
 
So you're offended that I put down your field. Get over it. I already admitted that I made a mistake by going to pharmacy school. Why wouldn't the job market be someone's sole reason to want to leave pharmacy? A future that involves likely having no choice but to move to a BFE wasteland is a pretty big contingency factor that would discourage a lot of people from pursuing a profession. This profession is establishing residency as a "de facto" requirement to qualify for hospital jobs, and yet many hospitals are not even hiring their own residency program graduates because it's cheaper to just keep using residents. Retail chains are hiring graduates to work 32 hours/week or fewer. The lobby groups that are supposed to be supporting the profession are instead advocating for conditions to become even worse because they think it promotes the perception that they're "in it for the patients." Like I said, the field is becoming a joke. Honestly, I think that the notion of someone with my academic history successfully moving on to a field with much better prospects (such as PA/AA school) doesn't sit well with people, because someone like me is supposed to be a failure, and I should feel lucky to even be in pharmacy school. It's almost like it's too much for someone to process to think about me moving on to a career where I'll be better off than they are/will be.

Again, you keep reading what you want to read and putting words in my mouth. I think it's comical that a whole field you were gushing about a year ago is now a joke to you. I am far from offended. I honestly don't even know why I'm wasting my time replying back as anything positive sent your way is twisted or goes over your head. You literally repeated stats to me that you've shared a few posts up and keep making my point. Im not even sure how you got me wishing you well and stating I hope you prove us all wrong twisted to me not being able to bear you going onto bigger and better things. Get into DO school or any physical pharmacy school in GA first, not talk a big game of if when and but. Then come back and talk to me about not being able to handle your success.
 
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Maybe the AA job market will be tougher when I graduate, but I know that where I live, groups are still offering sign-on bonuses to AAs/CRNAs.

I'm having flashbacks..

This field is a joke; every time a new report is published showing that the job market is getting worse, someone from the APhA or AACP writes an article in the Pharmacy Times where they talk about how the saturation will be a GOOD thing because it will give patients more choices and lower prices and force unemployed new grads to "expand the boundaries of pharmacy" to create their own jobs.

The field of pharmacy isn't a joke. The idiots who are destroying people's lives by selling them false dreams are the joke. If you do become a PA I hope you will realize that your pharmacists are your best friends. We will make your lives easier and save your ass when you mess up.

The schools admitting subpar students and graduating people who can't pass the NAPLEX are the real joke. Practicing pharmacists are skilled professionals doing a vital job. I hope you understand that.

So you're offended that I put down your field.

Your field too until you are officially out of it.

I wish you would stop arguing with people. I feel like you are getting more bitter as time goes on. Find your path and succeed, man.
 
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The schools admitting subpart students and graduating people who can't pass the NAPLEX are the real joke.
Very few people fail the NAPLEX, right? (Pass rate is in the 90% according to Google).
 
Very few people fail the NAPLEX, right? (Pass rate is in the 90% according to Google).
Check out the the thread about the 2016 results. There are several schools with a pass rate in the 60% range.
 
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Change my mind to what? No alternatives left

Well less than a week ago (last Friday), you were posting about post-bac programs for DO and Dental again. It's nice to have options, back-up plans, etc. But at some point you really need to decide what you want to do, make a plan, and stick to it.
 
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I'm having flashbacks..



The field of pharmacy isn't a joke. The idiots who are destroying people's lives by selling them false dreams are the joke. If you do become a PA I hope you will realize that your pharmacists are your best friends. We will make your lives easier and save your ass when you mess up.

The schools admitting subpar students and graduating people who can't pass the NAPLEX are the real joke. Practicing pharmacists are skilled professionals doing a vital job. I hope you understand that.



Your field too until you are officially out of it.

I wish you would stop arguing with people. I feel like you are getting more bitter as time goes on. Find your path and succeed, man.

I really AM getting more bitter as time goes on. Some of these teachers in pharmacy school are so bad that that I'm studying more for tests in basic science courses than I had to study when I was in AA school, making slightly lower grades in those same courses than I earned when I was in AA school, and yet, those classes I took in AA school were MEDICAL SCHOOL classes. What sucks about it is that the pharmacy school basic science classes cover much less material than the medical school versions of those same classes, but the quality of the teaching tends to be so bad and off-target from what ends up being on the test that it's almost impossible to do extremely well in some classes, simply because the teaching is so aimless.

So many classes literally consist of the professor going through a PPT presentation that has no form of text narrative on it, with most slides having a random picture or diagram or something, with the professor just rambling aimlessly over it.
In AA school, you could skip class every day and just memorize the PPTs (even if there were 600+ of them), but you can't do that in pharmacy school because so many of the PPT slides literally have nothing on them. It's just pathetic. I would honestly rather re-take the medschool versions of these classes, deal with having to know a lot more material that will actually be taught, and have an overall easier time making an A. It sounds like a paradox, but it's that bad.

It all begs the question... what is the point in doing all this stupid studying and putting in all this effort for a future ROI that will center on me hopefully being lucky enough to get a job in BFE midwestern America? In other words, it's not a scenario I should look at as a last resort -- I should feel LUCKY if that ends up being my outcome. Even if I don't get accepted to any other healthcare programs, I don't think I'll be returning next fall. This is an utter waste of time, money, and effort.
 
What was the reason for firing all the older pharmacist at several hospitals ?

This is just gossip from a DOP who wasn't directly involved, but I was told that it was because they wanted to replace more of the pharmacist positions with resident positions (also, the old pharmacists were at the top of the payscale, so it made the most sense to get rid of them specifically)
 
Well less than a week ago (last Friday), you were posting about post-bac programs for DO and Dental again. It's nice to have options, back-up plans, etc. But at some point you really need to decide what you want to do, make a plan, and stick to it.

I was just talking generally about the possibilities that may or may not be available for me to pursue. I will probably be lucky to get accepted to PA/AA programs, but if I end up taking the MCAT for whatever reason, I might consider applying to a few DO programs just in case.
 
You said it was just gossip in the previous post

I meant that even though the firings really happened, the specific reasons are gossipy (although the only reason I say that is because I heard them from a DOP who wasn't directly involved with the situation).

Also, another one of the old pharmacists who was fired is working for a contracting/temp agency because he can't find anything FT and doesn't want to move his family to a new city
 
You guys wanted updates, so here you go. One of the AA programs I want to apply to told me they would need to get in touch with my former PD in order to make the determination as to whether or not I will be eligible to apply, but the catch is that they won't do this until the admissions cycle opens this summer, and I will have to actually submit an application first; at that point, they will contact the PD and decide whether they'll accept my application or not. Why don't they just get in touch with my former PD now? Why wait until I have actually applied to do so?

... Perhaps they already know they won't accept an application from me and just want to collect my application fee?

Another school wants me to retake all the premed pre-requisite courses because they're too old. That would probably cost $10k plus, and I wouldn't be approved for federal loans to cover the tuition expenses.

So now, I'm looking at some of the newer AA programs that don't have coursework expiration dates and will send them emails asking about my chances of acceptance. If it looks like not a single AA program will realistically accept me, I'll just have to focus on getting accepted to a PA program.

BTW, I had a hospital pharmacy rotation earlier today. I was shocked to see that almost all the pharmacists at the hospital were in their mid/late 20s. One of them said she works PRN there, it is her only pharmacist job, and it took her a YEAR just to get the PRN job. She said her dad is a physician who has "helped her out" with the loans (I assume this means he paid them off).

Even if I don't have a shot at getting accepted to any AA programs ever again, it's obvious that I absolutely need to do something other than pharmacy, even if it isn't healthcare related. There will truly be no future in this field for thousands of people who are pursuing one.

Edited to add: just talked to another former classmate who signed on to work at an ATL hospital for $151k/year, 5 wks PTO plus holidays, and more money for taking call. I think that if I have even the slimmest, most remote chance of getting accepted to any AA program, that's absolutely the way to go.
 
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PAtoPharm, I appreciate the update... but you still sound a bit delusional. You can't take your saturated state (GA? iirc) and extrapolate what is happening to a handful (literally 5-10 "people you've spoken to") of pharmacists to how the entire nation's job market is. You love talking about how you spoke to some "pharmacist, director of pharmacy, dean of pharmacy" etc, and about awful things they said relating to job prospects. At the end of the day, you are a P1... you have literally zero idea about the job market in reality, except from a few articles you've read online and what a handful of people you spoke to said (god knows if that is even true). You don't know those people, there is a chance they are all socially ******ed and couldn't nail an interview to land a gig in the first place.

90% of my classmates have jobs lined up, and the others (~10%) I haven't communicated with, so I don't know if they do or don't. I had multiple job offers, in multiple states, some desirable locations, some not desirable. I didn't even apply to a single retail pharmacy. I'm not e-bragging here, but your posts about zero job prospects in pharmacy are so exhausting. Jobs are out there (currently). Hard to say if your doom and gloom posts about 3-4 years from now will be any sort of accurate or not.

I do know that your negativity in general will/can ruin your life, if you allow it. You have a finite amount of time on this earth, you can't spend it worrying about the future and wasting a vast amount of time on unknowns.
 
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You guys wanted updates, so here you go. One of the AA programs I want to apply to told me they would need to get in touch with my former PD in order to make the determination as to whether or not I will be eligible to apply, but the catch is that they won't do this until the admissions cycle opens this summer, and I will have to actually submit an application first; at that point, they will contact the PD and decide whether they'll accept my application or not. Why don't they just get in touch with my former PD now? Why wait until I have actually applied to do so?

So now, I'm looking at some of the newer AA programs that don't have coursework expiration dates and will send them emails asking about my chances of acceptance. If it looks like not a single AA program will realistically accept me, I'll just have to focus on getting accepted to a PA program.

Edited to add: just talked to another former classmate who signed on to work at an ATL hospital for $151k/year, 5 wks PTO plus holidays, and more money for taking call. I think that if I have even the slimmest, most remote chance of getting accepted to any AA program, that's absolutely the way to go.

So have you fully exhausted the possibility of getting back into your previous AA program? If you really want to go AA route, that seems like the fastest route - even if you have to repeat the 1st year.

Are you going to go ahead and get your stuff into CASPA when it opens (in 16 days)? You can't afford to be late on this. You don't have the luxury of waiting around to see if a 2nd chance at AA pans out, and THEN rushing to apply PA as a "back-up" (even if it is).

Thanks for the update... I've missed this thread lol
 
PAtoPharm, I appreciate the update... but you still sound a bit delusional. You can't take your saturated state (GA? iirc) and extrapolate what is happening to a handful (literally 5-10 "people you've spoken to") of pharmacists to how the entire nation's job market is. You love talking about how you spoke to some "pharmacist, director of pharmacy, dean of pharmacy" etc, and about awful things they said relating to job prospects. At the end of the day, you are a P1... you have literally zero idea about the job market in reality, except from a few articles you've read online and what a handful of people you spoke to said (god knows if that is even true). You don't know those people, there is a chance they are all socially ******ed and couldn't nail an interview to land a gig in the first place.

You're absolutely right, except that I think PAtoPharm has some very specific geographic preferences. I believe he has his heart set on staying in/near Georgia, and is only interested in living in a large-to-medium sized city (so basically Atlanta?). That's another thing that makes this thread so interesting.
 
PAtoPharm, I appreciate the update... but you still sound a bit delusional. You can't take your saturated state (GA? iirc) and extrapolate what is happening to a handful (literally 5-10 "people you've spoken to") of pharmacists to how the entire nation's job market is. You love talking about how you spoke to some "pharmacist, director of pharmacy, dean of pharmacy" etc, and about awful things they said relating to job prospects. At the end of the day, you are a P1... you have literally zero idea about the job market in reality, except from a few articles you've read online and what a handful of people you spoke to said (god knows if that is even true). You don't know those people, there is a chance they are all socially ******ed and couldn't nail an interview to land a gig in the first place.

90% of my classmates have jobs lined up, and the others (~10%) I haven't communicated with, so I don't know if they do or don't. I had multiple job offers, in multiple states, some desirable locations, some not desirable. I didn't even apply to a single retail pharmacy. I'm not e-bragging here, but your posts about zero job prospects in pharmacy are so exhausting. Jobs are out there (currently). Hard to say if your doom and gloom posts about 3-4 years from now will be any sort of accurate or not.

I do know that your negativity in general will/can ruin your life, if you allow it. You have a finite amount of time on this earth, you can't spend it worrying about the future and wasting a vast amount of time on unknowns.

What does only being a P1 student have to do with commenting on objective statistical measures/predictions of the job market? When it comes to any other profession, if someone were to try to be positive by saying that they have personally had a favorable experience with finding a job in that profession despite the fact that every objective study shows that the job market sucks overall (and is getting worse), everyone else would actually tell them that their individual anecdote doesn't really hold much influence. Think about it -- even if there really is a ~30% unemployment rate within the next few years, there will be at least a few people among the 70% who were able to find a job who will say that they didn't have any trouble, things aren't as bad as they seem, etc.

I am just making the point that if a certain set of conditions or circumstances really do exist, then the background or status of the person remarking on those factors is irrelevant. Also, sure, you can say that I can't take my saturated state and extrapolate it to the national pharmacist job market, but again, every study that claims to assess the state of the pharmacist job market now indicates that there are more states that are saturated than those that are not. In fact, the ACPE's own propaganda stats (I.e., the PDI, aka Pharmacy Manpower Study) now show that something like 2/3 of states are saturated. A year ago, many of those states (including mine) weren't saturated. It's only inevitable that more and more states will become saturated over the next few years.

Also, saturation or not, I don't think I'm cut out for this s***. One of the pharmacists I rotated with yesterday said that her friend (who was also jobless for 4-5 months after graduating) who works at CVS might need to have neck surgery soon because of the physical consequences of "cricking" her neck to hold the phone while she also fills drugs, types on the computer, etc. Not only do I not want to deal with that, but I get frustrated and overwhelmed if I'm trying to work on time-sensitive school stuff (e.g., assignment due in 15 minutes) at the computer and someone asks me to do something and the dog wants to be petted, all at the same time. I just know I'm not CVS material.

And now that I'm hearing about my former AA school classmates signing on for primary care doctor money plus benefits and 6 weeks of PTO, I just have to give it another shot. I was browsing job openings for FP docs the other day, and I noticed that most of them offer only 2-3 weeks of PTO to start and similar salaries to what AAs/CRNAs are being offered out of school. AAs/CRNAs are literally out-earning primary care docs in some cases. Also, the former classmate I talked to yesterday said that BFE practices are signing on AAs for $175k, which is almost 2x as much as what most hospital pharmacists in the southeast start out at.

So between the choices of completing a 4-year Pharm.D. plus a 1-2 year residency to make $90k-$100k, or give AA school another shot and make potentially twice as much, especially if I'd have to go to BFE as a pharmacist anyways? No brainer.
 
So have you fully exhausted the possibility of getting back into your previous AA program? If you really want to go AA route, that seems like the fastest route - even if you have to repeat the 1st year.

Are you going to go ahead and get your stuff into CASPA when it opens (in 16 days)? You can't afford to be late on this. You don't have the luxury of waiting around to see if a 2nd chance at AA pans out, and THEN rushing to apply PA as a "back-up" (even if it is).

Thanks for the update... I've missed this thread lol

I haven't talked to my former PD yet. I will get in touch with them this week and ask them to be honest about my chances of getting re-accepted. There was a student in my program who was a year ahead of me who got kicked out, and this person has taken grad-level classes and worked as an anesthesia tech, and they STILL won't re-accept them. The person was interviewed during the most recent admissions cycle but they weren't accepted. Not sure if they have applied to any other AA programs. I don't know if it's something about that person as a re-applicant that is keeping them out, or if the program simply doesn't re-accept applicants who were kicked out.

BTW, why in the hell are you starting pharmacy school next year after being made aware of the profession's downward trajectory?
 
What does only being a P1 student have to do with commenting on objective statistical measures/predictions of the job market? When it comes to any other profession, if someone were to try to be positive by saying that they have personally had a favorable experience with finding a job in that profession despite the fact that every objective study shows that the job market sucks overall (and is getting worse), everyone else would actually tell them that their individual anecdote doesn't really hold much influence. Think about it -- even if there really is a ~30% unemployment rate within the next few years, there will be at least a few people among the 70% who were able to find a job who will say that they didn't have any trouble, things aren't as bad as they seem, etc.

I am just making the point that if a certain set of conditions or circumstances really do exist, then the background or status of the person remarking on those factors is irrelevant. Also, sure, you can say that I can't take my saturated state and extrapolate it to the national pharmacist job market, but again, every study that claims to assess the state of the pharmacist job market now indicates that there are more states that are saturated than those that are not. In fact, the ACPE's own propaganda stats (I.e., the PDI, aka Pharmacy Manpower Study) now show that something like 2/3 of states are saturated. A year ago, many of those states (including mine) weren't saturated. It's only inevitable that more and more states will become saturated over the next few years.

Also, saturation or not, I don't think I'm cut out for this s***. One of the pharmacists I rotated with yesterday said that her friend (who was also jobless for 4-5 months after graduating) who works at CVS might need to have neck surgery soon because of the physical consequences of "cricking" her neck to hold the phone while she also fills drugs, types on the computer, etc. Not only do I not want to deal with that, but I get frustrated and overwhelmed if I'm trying to work on time-sensitive school stuff (e.g., assignment due in 15 minutes) at the computer and someone asks me to do something and the dog wants to be petted, all at the same time. I just know I'm not CVS material.

And now that I'm hearing about my former AA school classmates signing on for primary care doctor money plus benefits and 6 weeks of PTO, I just have to give it another shot. I was browsing job openings for FP docs the other day, and I noticed that most of them offer only 2-3 weeks of PTO to start and similar salaries to what AAs/CRNAs are being offered out of school. AAs/CRNAs are literally out-earning primary care docs in some cases. Also, the former classmate I talked to yesterday said that BFE practices are signing on AAs for $175k, which is almost 2x as much as what most hospital pharmacists in the southeast start out at.

So between the choices of completing a 4-year Pharm.D. plus a 1-2 year residency to make $90k-$100k, or give AA school another shot and make potentially twice as much, especially if I'd have to go to BFE as a pharmacist anyways? No brainer.
lol what the... seriously, every damn job is hard, there's no free money, you have to work at it for every job. I think you should go for whatever (PA, AA, pharmD) makes the most $ with the shortest schooling because that's what you care the most about.

Second, you should get off SDN. This forum is full of doom and gloom. Even doctors are complaining of "saturation"! lol. Not to mention there are some people with not-so-good intention here who try to push others out of pharmacy while they themselves have no plan to get out. Think about that for a second.
 
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You guys wanted updates, so here you go. One of the AA programs I want to apply to told me they would need to get in touch with my former PD in order to make the determination as to whether or not I will be eligible to apply, but the catch is that they won't do this until the admissions cycle opens this summer, and I will have to actually submit an application first; at that point, they will contact the PD and decide whether they'll accept my application or not. Why don't they just get in touch with my former PD now? Why wait until I have actually applied to do so?

... Perhaps they already know they won't accept an application from me and just want to collect my application fee?

Another school wants me to retake all the premed pre-requisite courses because they're too old. That would probably cost $10k plus, and I wouldn't be approved for federal loans to cover the tuition expenses.

So now, I'm looking at some of the newer AA programs that don't have coursework expiration dates and will send them emails asking about my chances of acceptance. If it looks like not a single AA program will realistically accept me, I'll just have to focus on getting accepted to a PA program.

BTW, I had a hospital pharmacy rotation earlier today. I was shocked to see that almost all the pharmacists at the hospital were in their mid/late 20s. One of them said she works PRN there, it is her only pharmacist job, and it took her a YEAR just to get the PRN job. She said her dad is a physician who has "helped her out" with the loans (I assume this means he paid them off).

Even if I don't have a shot at getting accepted to any AA programs ever again, it's obvious that I absolutely need to do something other than pharmacy, even if it isn't healthcare related. There will truly be no future in this field for thousands of people who are pursuing one.

Edited to add: just talked to another former classmate who signed on to work at an ATL hospital for $151k/year, 5 wks PTO plus holidays, and more money for taking call. I think that if I have even the slimmest, most remote chance of getting accepted to any AA program, that's absolutely the way to go.

about time on this update!!!
Glad the ball is rollin, 151 is not bad offer for aa!
 
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Second, you should get off SDN. This forum is full of doom and gloom. Even doctors are complaining of "saturation"! lol. Not to mention there are some people with not-so-good intention here who try to push others out of pharmacy while they themselves have no plan to get out. Think about that for a second.

What are these "not-so-good" intentions? That SDN posters are dashing people's dreams with cynicism and hopelessness? Why would SDN posters possibly care about what strangers actually do?
 
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