The Investment Thread (stocks, bonds, real estate, retirement, just not gold)

[BMBiology]

DOW is @ 25,000.

Businesses were waiting for the election to be over before they invest.

Tax cuts help. Regulations help too, even tho it may come with a huge price tag later on.

What I am looking at is earning growth which has not been stellar. So why is consumption up? Spending up? People are more optimistic and as a result, they are using more credit to buy things (borrowing from their future selves). If they are wrong, things can go in reverse real fast.


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[wagrxm2000]

Not sure what consider stalling from dow 6000+ to 20k under money printing and low employment regime. Volatility in any given yr is normal. I haven't seen my index fund has any "stalling" due to earning miss. Earning has been growing all last yr and its not because of your trump. And, why do you think earning has been growing? Very low unemployment, cost cutting measures of corporates, and more productivity translate to more profit.

Without republican tax cut, I believe we would probably be around 22-23k (10%-12 up since last yr) right now, still not bad.

"In the short run, the market is like a voting machine, But in the long run, the market is like a weighing machine". It has nothing to do with news you think matter. Ultimately, it matters if businesses make more profit or not, the value the businesses provide to the mass, the substance.

I meant that year where the s&p was slightly negative. We stalled and would have stalled again without Trump as president.

If Hilary won what else could she have possibly done to keep the party going?

Oh and everyone knows the unemployment rate you hear about isn't the actual unemployment rate. People would rather get unemployment then actually have a job.

 

[wagrxm2000]

DOW is @ 25,000.

Businesses were waiting for the election to be over before they invest.

Tax cuts help. Regulations help too, even tho it may come with a huge price tag later on.

What I am looking at is earning growth which has not been stellar. So why is consumption up? Spending up? People are more optimistic and as a result, they are using more credit to buy things (borrowing from their future selves). If they are wrong, things can go in reverse real fast.


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Oh this is going to end badly but we have probably a year left. I'll be out after that.

 

[mentos]

For me, it's really weird when you have those stock market weeks where you make more sitting on your ass doing nothing...than you did the previous week when you were working your ass off 7 days in a row...

Capitalism is so stupid...lol...

When you say you make more than your paycheck, are you referring to retirement accounts or taxable or both? How much do you need invested to make more than your paycheck? I feel like I'm not even close. I've gotta invest more.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

When you say you make more than your paycheck, are you referring to retirement accounts or taxable or both? How much do you need invested to make more than your paycheck? I feel like I'm not even close. I've gotta invest more.

That's just my 401k. If I add in the Vanguard account and HSA account, its...more...I guess. I don't have as much in those as I do the 401k.

It's been a crazy week in the market. It usually isn't this good.

 

[radio frequency]

Need some advice when it comes to investing with my HSA, as it is very new to me.

If I invest, say 3k of my HSA into some vanguard mutual funds, and an emergency happens and I end up needing that 3k in an urgent time frame. Do I just sell the shares and I get my money back +/- what ever I made? How quick is that turn around process (would I be able to sell it and have the money that day)?

This isn’t what you should do. Save money outside the account to pay for healthcare costs directly. You’re a pharmacist, it’s not that hard. Have money on hand to pay your bills when they come. Keep your HSA money invested for years and let compounding interest work in your favor. Save all your receipts and eventually submit them for reimbursement when you are old and your account has a lot more money in it.

There should be no such thing as a $3k emergency in your life.

 

[PharmDminus]

This isn’t what you should do. Save money outside the account to pay for healthcare costs directly. You’re a pharmacist, it’s not that hard. Have money on hand to pay your bills when they come. Keep your HSA money invested for years and let compounding interest work in your favor. Save all your receipts and eventually submit them for reimbursement when you are old and your account has a lot more money in it.

There should be no such thing as a $3k emergency in your life.

is there no time limit on this with most plans?

 

[gwarm01]

I'm already seeing large gains pre-market. Who thought indexing could be so exciting?

 

[PharmDBro2017]

This isn’t what you should do. Save money outside the account to pay for healthcare costs directly. You’re a pharmacist, it’s not that hard. Have money on hand to pay your bills when they come. Keep your HSA money invested for years and let compounding interest work in your favor. Save all your receipts and eventually submit them for reimbursement when you are old and your account has a lot more money in it.

There should be no such thing as a $3k emergency in your life.

Receipts of what for reimbursement? I am a new grad, be more specific please. This is all new to me. I appreciate the advice.

I didn't say solely a 3k emergency, I just said an emergency that would require me to pull out that 3k quickly (meaning I'm forced to use that 3k in addition to using whatever savings I already have on hand). I'm talking more of like a total of 5k-10k on a serious family health issue that comes up.

 

[radio frequency]

is there no time limit on this with most plans?

No, there is no time limit. You could seek reimbursement in 60 years.

Receipts of what for reimbursement? I am a new grad, be more specific please. This is all new to me. I appreciate the advice.

I didn't say solely a 3k emergency, I just said an emergency that would require me to pull out that 3k quickly (meaning I'm forced to use that 3k in addition to using whatever savings I already have on hand). I'm talking more of like a total of 5k-10k on a serious family health issue that comes up.

Save your receipts of payment for medical stuff that is HSA reimbursable as well as your corresponding bills. Keep it all nicely organized so you know what you’ve sought reimbursement on and what you need to ask for reimbursement for in the future.

You should seek to have an emergency fund of 6 months if possible; if you are a new grad with lots of loans this might be lower while you hustle and pay off loans, but do your best to avoid emergencies that aren’t true emergencies (ie, it’s expected that old cars need replacing eventually and you might have an expensive healthcare year here and there. Save for these expenses before they happen!).

 

[mentos]

No, there is no time limit. You could seek reimbursement in 60 years.
Save your receipts of payment for medical stuff that is HSA reimbursable as well as your corresponding bills. Keep it all nicely organized so you know what you’ve sought reimbursement on and what you need to ask for reimbursement for in the future.

You should seek to have an emergency fund of 6 months if possible; if you are a new grad with lots of loans this might be lower while you hustle and pay off loans, but do your best to avoid emergencies that aren’t true emergencies (ie, it’s expected that old cars need replacing eventually and you might have an expensive healthcare year here and there. Save for these expenses before they happen!).

What happens if you never withdrawal anything, have minimal medical expenses, and end up with like $1-2 million in your HSA in 60 years? Do you withdraw when you retire and pay taxes on it, then use it to travel the world or whatever?

 

[PharmDBro2017]

No, there is no time limit. You could seek reimbursement in 60 years.
Save your receipts of payment for medical stuff that is HSA reimbursable as well as your corresponding bills. Keep it all nicely organized so you know what you’ve sought reimbursement on and what you need to ask for reimbursement for in the future.

You should seek to have an emergency fund of 6 months if possible; if you are a new grad with lots of loans this might be lower while you hustle and pay off loans, but do your best to avoid emergencies that aren’t true emergencies (ie, it’s expected that old cars need replacing eventually and you might have an expensive healthcare year here and there. Save for these expenses before they happen!).

Gotcha, I didn't know that one could get reimbursement on medical stuff if they had used something other than HSA funds.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

What happens if you never withdrawal anything, have minimal medical expenses, and end up with like $1-2 million in your HSA in 60 years? Do you withdraw when you retire and pay taxes on it, then use it to travel the world or whatever?

When you turn 65, you can take money out of it like its any other IRA.

 

[pezdispenser]

What happens if you never withdrawal anything, have minimal medical expenses, and end up with like $1-2 million in your HSA in 60 years? Do you withdraw when you retire and pay taxes on it, then use it to travel the world or whatever?

Yep that's what I'm doing. You can make withdrawals after 65 with no penalty, but you do pay income taxes just like a 401k. It's actually a bit better than a 401k because you don't pay 7.65% FICA taxes on payroll contributions to a HSA. Or you could also use the HSA to pay Medicare premiums and copays completely tax free.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

Has anyone seen this new ETF FNG? Curious to hear everyone’s thoughts on it. Looks very appealing imo. Top holdings below:

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[Momus]

Has anyone seen this new ETF FNG? Curious to hear everyone’s thoughts on it. Looks very appealing imo. Top holdings below:

View attachment 227526


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You are blatantly new to investing, dot.com 2000 tech bubble, look it up...

FNG actively managed, high expense ratio, unproven manager.

Pick a sector fund in tech (Vanguard very low cost), it's pretty much the same thing if you want to gamble in specific sector.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I agree with Momus on this one.

 

[gwarm01]

That's an awful lot of Roku.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

You are blatantly new to investing, dot.com 2000 tech bubble, look it up...

FNG actively managed, high expense ratio, unproven manager.

Pick a sector fund in tech (Vanguard very low cost), it's pretty much the same thing if you want to gamble in specific sector.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm (very) new to investing... that's why I came here asking for your thoughts on it. You caught me!

I don't see companies like apple, amazon, nvda, google, alibaba, etc. failing and going away any time in the future... so I don't really see how the dot.com bubble applies?

 

[gwarm01]

I'll be the first to admit that I'm (very) new to investing... that's why I came here asking for your thoughts on it. You caught me!

I don't see companies like apple, amazon, nvda, google, alibaba, etc. failing and going away any time in the future... so I don't really see how the dot.com bubble applies?

They might not fail and go away, but a bubble burst will still hurt if you aren't diversified. I'm pretty heavily into tech and took a decent hit after the tax bill passed. Why? Because tech companies weren't going to benefit as much as other companies. I'm no one to give advice though. I just started my personal investing account this year. Before then my strategy was to just let my retirement account do what it will.

My strategy at this point is spreading a set amount each month across three ETFs - U.S. Broad Market, Tech/A.I./Automation, and Batteries. I've made more in returns this year than I ever have with a savings account, but I also accept that this could plummet at any point. This is a slow burn for me.. I'm hoping to cash out somewhere between 2025-2030 and buy a nice vacation/retirement property.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Dow up 2.33% already ytd. We need a pullback or this bubble will pop sooner then I thought.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

They might not fail and go away, but a bubble burst will still hurt if you aren't diversified. I'm pretty heavily into tech and took a decent hit after the tax bill passed. Why? Because tech companies weren't going to benefit as much as other companies. I'm no one to give advice though. I just started my personal investing account this year. Before then my strategy was to just let my retirement account do what it will.

My strategy at this point is spreading a set amount each month across three ETFs - U.S. Broad Market, Tech/A.I./Automation, and Batteries. I've made more in returns this year than I ever have with a savings account, but I also accept that this could plummet at any point. This is a slow burn for me.. I'm hoping to cash out somewhere between 2025-2030 and buy a nice vacation/retirement property.

What are some other sectors that one should diversify into? No doubt I am too heavy into tech/FANG stocks.

 

[PolarPop]

What are some other sectors that one should diversify into? No doubt I am too heavy into tech/FANG stocks.

How much tech exposure are you looking for? S&P500 is already 20% tech.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

S&P500 is already 20% tech which

How much tech exposure are you looking for? S&P500 is already 20% tech.

Just seems like FANG stocks are the way of the future and so I don't mind taking the risk into playing them heavily. I guess ideally ~35-40% tech. Do you guys think that's absurd?

 

[pezdispenser]

Just seems like FANG stocks are the way of the future and so I don't mind taking the risk into playing them heavily. I guess ideally ~35-40% tech. Do you guys think that's absurd?

I have Vanguard Information Technology ETF (VGT). Vanguard - Vanguard fund
Expense ratio 0.10%. No commissions when you buy with a Vanguard Brokerage Account.
It's an index fund so it goes by market cap:
Month-end ten largest holdings as of 11/30/2017
Rank Holdings
1 Apple Inc.
2 Alphabet Inc.
3 Microsoft Corp.
4 Facebook Inc.
5 Intel Corp.
6 Visa Inc.
7 Cisco Systems Inc.
8 Oracle Corp.
9 Mastercard Inc.
10 International Business Machines Corp.
Ten largest holdings = 56.5% of total net assets

Note that there is no Amazon, but I directly own a bunch of them anyway. I don't mind focusing on this sector. It's pretty much the industry that the US is most famous for, and the most innovative.

 

[Momus]

I'll be the first to admit that I'm (very) new to investing... that's why I came here asking for your thoughts on it. You caught me!

I don't see companies like apple, amazon, nvda, google, alibaba, etc. failing and going away any time in the future... so I don't really see how the dot.com bubble applies?

You see tech companies giving 30-40% return every yr? Reversion to the mean is a powerful force.

Just seems like FANG stocks are the way of the future and so I don't mind taking the risk into playing them heavily. I guess ideally ~35-40% tech. Do you guys think that's absurd?

You wouldn't think the same if you were investing 20 years ago. Kodak, Intel, Sears, IBM, GE, are they returning 30% every year now?

I suggest reading some of behavioral mistakes most investors make. Here and here.

 

[Momus]

Sector performance FYI

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Up 2.77% YTD. What a week.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Just seems like FANG stocks are the way of the future and so I don't mind taking the risk into playing them heavily. I guess ideally ~35-40% tech. Do you guys think that's absurd?

Seeing as I'm the only one here apparently with cojones, there's no reason why a young investor shouldn't put money into momentum stocks.

I don't like that list you posted though, love FANG though.

Just remember if we pop these will fall harder.

Love energy this year fyi

 

[mentos]

Another HSA question, how do you guys keep track of your receipts? Do you keep a paper trail or take photos with your phone and save them to your computer, then put the expenses into a spreadsheet? Are there any apps that make this easier?

 

[wucool33]

Another HSA question, how do you guys keep track of your receipts? Do you keep a paper trail or take photos with your phone and save them to your computer, then put the expenses into a spreadsheet? Are there any apps that make this easier?

I think all legit medical offices can email you the receipts now. If not, you can always scan them into your computer and make a folder or whatever for yourself.

 

[Digsbe]

Does anyone have a preferred broker for mutual funds? I'm looking to start getting into the market and want to begin with mutual funds. Have been debating between Fidelity, Vanguard, and Merril Lynch. Anyone have preferences or advice for a first time investor ?

 

[Momus]

Does anyone have a preferred broker for mutual funds? I'm looking to start getting into the market and want to begin with mutual funds. Have been debating between Fidelity, Vanguard, and Merril Lynch. Anyone have preferences or advice for a first time investor ?

Vanguard #1
Fidelity #2
Dirt cheap expense ratio

Read a couple books before you start. Here is to start, and here.

Don't talk to any human financial advisor and stay the fu3k away from merryl lynch.

Dow going to 26,000, even the bears start jumping in both feet now...

 

[PolarPop]

Does anyone have a preferred broker for mutual funds? I'm looking to start getting into the market and want to begin with mutual funds. Have been debating between Fidelity, Vanguard, and Merril Lynch. Anyone have preferences or advice for a first time investor ?

Pick vanguard since you will want to buy vanguard funds and there's no commission if you buy them from a vanguard account. It's 3k minimum for most regular shares or 10k for admiral shares.

 

[Momus]

Another HSA question, how do you guys keep track of your receipts? Do you keep a paper trail or take photos with your phone and save them to your computer, then put the expenses into a spreadsheet? Are there any apps that make this easier?

Take a pic, receipts fade over time. Make a folder with a total such as "HSA 2017 2400".

 

[BMBiology]

Another HSA question, how do you guys keep track of your receipts? Do you keep a paper trail or take photos with your phone and save them to your computer, then put the expenses into a spreadsheet? Are there any apps that make this easier?

You can also not ask for reimbursement right away. You can hold on to your receipt (take a photo) for years. This way your money will keep on growing


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[pezdispenser]

Does anyone have a preferred broker for mutual funds? I'm looking to start getting into the market and want to begin with mutual funds. Have been debating between Fidelity, Vanguard, and Merril Lynch. Anyone have preferences or advice for a first time investor ?

Another vote for Vanguard. I recommend just starting off with the Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund which gets you every US stock in one go. For later on, they have tons of low cost funds in different sectors and also ETFs that you can buy commission free.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

Can you guys explain the whole reimbursement part? Who is reimbursing me and what exactly are all the benefits of doing this (just to keep your investment money growing by not using it)?
@pezdispenser

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[WVUPharm2007]

Does anyone have a preferred broker for mutual funds? I'm looking to start getting into the market and want to begin with mutual funds. Have been debating between Fidelity, Vanguard, and Merril Lynch. Anyone have preferences or advice for a first time investor ?

Vanguard is the best, IMO. Great management, incredibly low expense ratios, easy to use website. Everything I want.

And they are local to me, so if they piss me off, I can show up at their offices with a pitchfork and torch.

 

[babybull]

I'm already seeing large gains pre-market. Who thought indexing could be so exciting?

the DOW

 

[mygavs22]

Vanguard #1
Fidelity #2
Dirt cheap expense ratio

Read a couple books before you start. Here is to start, and here.

Don't talk to any human financial advisor and stay the fu3k away from merryl lynch.

Dow going to 26,000, even the bears start jumping in both feet now...

Why stay away from Merrill? I'm a relatively new investor and they lured me in with their 30 trades commission free per month account. I haven't had any problems so far, but I'm pretty new, so just wondering if I should consider switching.

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[Momus]

Why stay away from Merrill? I'm a relatively new investor and they lured me in with their 30 trades commission free per month account. I haven't had any problems so far, but I'm pretty new, so just wondering if I should consider switching.

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#1 You should not trade that much. More trading, less profit.
#2 They will solicit you with their high expense ratio funds, actively managed.
#3 Every funds they have will charge a higher ER than the cheaper alternative Vanguard/Fidelity. You can buy Vanguard ETF there for free now, but anytime they can change this and start charging a higher fee also. Admiral shares is not available at Merryl (dirt cheap expense ratio).
#4 If you succumb to their solicitation, you will pay hefty fees using their advisory service. Vanguard on the other hand charges 0.3%.

 

[Momus]

I only have 10% emerging market. China tech and their recent millionaires will spend and spend more. Maybe, it's finally time for emerging market around the world to shine for the next decade Looks good for Apple or any mobile companies, 650 million smartphone user, Chinese sheep likes buying iRipoff (don't mind me, I am not an Apple fan).

 

[wagrxm2000]

Why stay away from Merrill? I'm a relatively new investor and they lured me in with their 30 trades commission free per month account. I haven't had any problems so far, but I'm pretty new, so just wondering if I should consider switching.

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What's the cost after that? I'll go through that in a month sometimes.

 

[Sine Cura]

Can you guys explain the whole reimbursement part? Who is reimbursing me and what exactly are all the benefits of doing this (just to keep your investment money growing by not using it)?
@pezdispenser

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You are reimbursing yourself with non-taxable distributions from your HSA to pay for your post-tax medical spending.

Since there is no time limit on when you can make qualifying withdrawals from your HSA for your medical expenses, you save the paperwork/receipts in the event that you have to prove to the IRS that your distributions X years down the road should be considered non-taxable.

 

[mygavs22]

What's the cost after that? I'll go through that in a month sometimes.

I'm not sure...I don't trade that much since I'm a cautious beginner. I'm guessing the normal commission afterward?

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[mygavs22]

#1 You should not trade that much. More trading, less profit.
#2 They will solicit you with their high expense ratio funds, actively managed.
#3 Every funds they have will charge a higher ER than the cheaper alternative Vanguard/Fidelity. You can buy Vanguard ETF there for free now, but anytime they can change this and start charging a higher fee also. Admiral shares is not available at Merryl (dirt cheap expense ratio).
#4 If you succumb to their solicitation, you will pay hefty fees using their advisory service. Vanguard on the other hand charges 0.3%.

Thanks! I'll look into Vanguard. I really don't even trade most months, but the times that I have, it's taken a little bit of the fear away with not having to pay commission on top of buying and selling.

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[pezdispenser]

Can you guys explain the whole reimbursement part? Who is reimbursing me and what exactly are all the benefits of doing this (just to keep your investment money growing by not using it)?
@pezdispenser

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Whoops I was busy preparing for my next vacation and missed this post

Like the poster above said, you put pre-tax money into your HSA so you don't pay income taxes on it, but also you don't pay 6.2% SS and 1.45% Medicare. Then you submit your healthcare receipts to them and they reimburse you with the pre-tax money.

Most HSAs also have the option to invest in mutual funds, and this money grows tax free. After age 65, you can withdraw the money for any reason including non-healthcare expenses, but you will pay taxes in your respective tax bracket. This makes it similar to a 401k or Traditional IRA, but it's probably best to continue using it for healthcare expenses which will be reimbursed tax free, especially since you will probably have more healthcare costs at that age.

If you really want to milk it, you can save your healthcare receipts forever since there is technically no time limit to get reimbursed, and in the meantime your investments will continue to grow tax free.

 

[BMBiology]

Whoops I was busy preparing for my next vacation and missed this post

Like the poster above said, you put pre-tax money into your HSA so you don't pay income taxes on it, but also you don't pay 6.2% SS and 1.45% Medicare. Then you submit your healthcare receipts to them and they reimburse you with the pre-tax money.

Most HSAs also have the option to invest in mutual funds, and this money grows tax free. After age 65, you can withdraw the money for any reason including non-healthcare expenses, but you will pay taxes in your respective tax bracket. This makes it similar to a 401k or Traditional IRA, but it's probably best to continue using it for healthcare expenses which will be reimbursed tax free, especially since you will probably have more healthcare costs at that age.

If you really want to milk it, you can save your healthcare receipts forever since there is technically no time limit to get reimbursed, and in the meantime your investments will continue to grow tax free.

Good info! Just want to add...you still pay state tax on your HSA.


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[PharmDBro2017]

Whoops I was busy preparing for my next vacation and missed this post

Like the poster above said, you put pre-tax money into your HSA so you don't pay income taxes on it, but also you don't pay 6.2% SS and 1.45% Medicare. Then you submit your healthcare receipts to them and they reimburse you with the pre-tax money.

Most HSAs also have the option to invest in mutual funds, and this money grows tax free. After age 65, you can withdraw the money for any reason including non-healthcare expenses, but you will pay taxes in your respective tax bracket. This makes it similar to a 401k or Traditional IRA, but it's probably best to continue using it for healthcare expenses which will be reimbursed tax free, especially since you will probably have more healthcare costs at that age.

If you really want to milk it, you can save your healthcare receipts forever since there is technically no time limit to get reimbursed, and in the meantime your investments will continue to grow tax free.

Submit to “them”, your hsa company you mean?


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