The Iran Nuclear Deal

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I wish things were that simple... again, it's not a Hollywood movie with good guys and bad guys where ultimately the good guys kill the bad guys and where everyone knows who the bad guy is.
It's a very complicated situation where things that are fed to the masses through media outlets are not necessarily accurate, and where you really need to know the history of the region and try to be objective in your view if you want to understand.
You certainly can't be objective if you start your journey to understanding from being biased to one party based on common propaganda.

It's funny you say this - I agree 100% except I think the inaccuracy fed by the media is biased *against* Israel.

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You cannot negotiate with someone who wants you dead and will accept nothing less. You are dreaming if you think there will be peace. There will never be peace, ever. It's impossible. If you understand the mentality of these Palestenians and the history of the conflict, you will understand why there can never be peace. It's a perpetual cycle. Hamas gets weapons and rockets from Iran via Eygpt, they fire them indiscriminately into Israel hoping to kill whoever they can, and then Israel responds with an F-18 air strike that kills top Hamas leaders, their command centers, and their infrastructure. Then Hamas goes quiet trying to rebuild and regroup during this time of "peace" until they can rinse and repeat. Meanwhile, what's disgusting is that Hamas uses the money they have running the Gaza Strip for weapons and rockets instead of on schools, infrastructure, etc. They hate Israel more than their desire to help their own people. They don't care about their own civilians. They hope as many Palestinians as possible get killed as collateral damage so the international community will condemn Israel. They use women and children as human shields.


All the rhetoric in the media and elsewhere, and the emboldened is the core of the issue. Wow.
 
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I wish things were that simple... again, it's not a Hollywood movie with good guys and bad guys where ultimately the good guys kill the bad guys and where everyone knows who the bad guy is.
It's a very complicated situation where things that are fed to the masses through media outlets are not necessarily accurate, and where you really need to know the history of the region and try to be objective in your view if you want to understand.
You certainly can't be objective if you start your journey to understanding from being biased to one party based on common propaganda.

The Israeli state was created peacefully in 1948 and the lines were drawn. The Arabs didn't like it so the Israelis were attacked by all sides and persevered anyway. The reason Gaza is relegated to a ghetto is because if they weren't, they would be coming across the border blowing up buses and killing innocent people on a regular basis. They elected a terrorist organization to run their community so I have ZERO sympathy for any of the palestinians in Gaza and they are all lucky to be alive at this point. It seems like all of the reasonable palestinians moved to Israel, set up their businesses, mind their own business, and tried to create a better life for themselves. After trying to kill off a group of people and then having your society run by a terrorist organization, it truly is a mystery why anyone smpathetizes with them. I don't think there is any other way you could objectively look at this situation.
 
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The Israeli state was created peacefully in 1948 and the lines were drawn.

LOL peacefully. Israel was created on an existing Palestine state by ethnic cleansing. Stop drinking the Kool Aid. Let me see how you react, if someone bulldozed your house that your forefathers built, murdered your children, and put a settlement there, and transferred immigrants to that settlement. If you have any sense of dignity in you, you will fight until death for what is right. So quit this BS with peacefully built. It is bad enough you support unjust robbing of Palestinian land and slaughter of innocent children and you also want us to feel sorry for Israel. And of course US soldiers should die as well trying to defend poor Israel. Israel is a terrorist state and can fend for itself. Why don't you enlist your family in IDF so they can defend Israel?
 
LOL peacefully. Israel was created on an existing Palestine state by ethnic cleansing. Stop drinking the Kool Aid. Let me see how you react, if someone bulldozed your house that your forefathers built, murdered your children, and put a settlement there, and transferred immigrants to that settlement. If you have any sense of dignity in you, you will fight until death for what is right. So quit this BS with peacefully built. It is bad enough you support unjust robbing of Palestinian land and slaughter of innocent children and you also want us to feel sorry for Israel. And of course US soldiers should die as well trying to defend poor Israel. Israel is a terrorist state and can fend for itself. Why don't you enlist your family in IDF so they can defend Israel?

Agree "peacefully created" is a joke.
 
LOL peacefully. Israel was created on an existing Palestine state by ethnic cleansing. Stop drinking the Kool Aid. Let me see how you react, if someone bulldozed your house that your forefathers built, murdered your children, and put a settlement there, and transferred immigrants to that settlement. If you have any sense of dignity in you, you will fight until death for what is right. So quit this BS with peacefully built. It is bad enough you support unjust robbing of Palestinian land and slaughter of innocent children and you also want us to feel sorry for Israel. And of course US soldiers should die as well trying to defend poor Israel. Israel is a terrorist state and can fend for itself. Why don't you enlist your family in IDF so they can defend Israel?


Israel was given by Jesus Christ to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. If you don't believe in that fact (yes it is a fact to anyone who calls themselves a Christian) then you don't believe in the God of the Bible nor in Jesus Christ himself.

God calls upon us (those who believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob which includes Christian and Jews) to support Israel and the Jewish nation. Israel is a State created by God according to his promises to the Jewish people. If Israel is a terrorist nation then Jesus Christ and all his followers are of SATAN himself. Guess which nation/nations believes that Jews and Christians are terrorists to be eliminated from the world?
 
"Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will
open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land
of Israel." Ezekiel 37:12

Isaiah 11:12
He will raise a signal for the nations and will assemble the banished of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.




In a stunning and remarkable moment
, Netanyahu also declared to the people of Europe and the world that the prophecies of Ezekiel 37 have been fulfilled. The Holocaust, he said, represented the "dry bones" and "graves" of the Jewish people, and out of that horror the State of Israel was resurrected, just as the Lord said would happen through the Hebrew Prophet Ezekiel. Rarely has any world leader given a major address on an international stage declaring End Times prophecies from
the Bible have come true. But that is exactly what Netanyahu did. - Joel Rosenberg
 
U.S. counterterrorism officials have become increasingly worried about the ability of the Islamic State and al-Qaeda offshoots to attract and radicalize followers in the United States. At the same time, authorities have expressed concern that their ability to detect such contact has been eroded by the spread of encrypted communication.


Four Marines were killed in Thursday’s attack: Gunnery Sgt. Thomas J. Sullivan of Hampden, Mass.; Staff Sgt. David A. Wyatt of Burke, N.C.; Sgt. Carson A. Holmquist of Polk, Wis.; and Lance Cpl. Squire K. Wells of Cobb, Ga.

[Profiles of the Marines who died in Chattanooga]

An unidentified Navy petty officer and a Chattanooga police officer were wounded. Abdulazeez was killed after exchanging gunfire with police.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...d1f988-2c67-11e5-a250-42bd812efc09_story.html
 
Chattanooga, Tennessee (CNN)U.S. Navy Petty Officer Randall Smith, wounded in a shooting rampage in Tennessee, died early Saturday, according to a family member. He is the fifth American service member killed in the attack.

Darlene Proxmire, Smith's step-grandmother, said the logistics specialist was shot in the attack at the Navy Operational Support Center in Chattanooga. It was one of two military sites in the city that were targeted by a gunman Thursday.

The U.S. Navy confirmed the death, saying Smith died at 2:17 a.m.

Smith saw the shooter and warned people around him, according to family members. But he was unable to get away. Smith was shot in the liver, colon and stomach, said his grandmother, Linda Wallace.

Mohammad Youssuf Abdulazeez opened fire, shooting seven people, including four Marines who died that day.

The two surviving wounded are a Marine recruiter who was shot in the leg and a responding Chattanooga police officer, Dennis Pedigo, who was shot in the ankle.
 
LOL peacefully. Israel was created on an existing Palestine state by ethnic cleansing. Stop drinking the Kool Aid. Let me see how you react, if someone bulldozed your house that your forefathers built, murdered your children, and put a settlement there, and transferred immigrants to that settlement. If you have any sense of dignity in you, you will fight until death for what is right. So quit this BS with peacefully built. It is bad enough you support unjust robbing of Palestinian land and slaughter of innocent children and you also want us to feel sorry for Israel. And of course US soldiers should die as well trying to defend poor Israel. Israel is a terrorist state and can fend for itself. Why don't you enlist your family in IDF so they can defend Israel?

After World War I, the United Kingdom was given a mandate for Palestine, which it had conquered from the Ottomans during the war. In 1937 the Peel Commission suggested partitioning Mandate Palestine into an Arab state and a Jewish state, though the proposal was rejected as unworkable by the government and was at least partially to blame for the renewal of the 1936–39 Arab revolt.



The UN partition plan
In the face of increasing violence after World War II, the British handed the issue over to the recently established United Nations. The result was Resolution 181(II), a plan to partition Palestine into Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem. The Jewish state was to receive around 56% of the land area of Mandate Palestine, encompassing 82% of the Jewish population, though it would be separated from Jerusalem. The plan was accepted by most of the Jewish population, but rejected by much of the Arab populace. On 29 November 1947, the resolution to recommend to the United Kingdom, as the mandatory Power for Palestine, and to all other Members of the United Nations the adoption and implementation, with regard to the future government of Palestine, of the Plan of Partition with Economic Union was put to a vote in the United Nations General Assembly.[8]

The result was 33 to 13 in favour of the resolution, with 10 abstentions. Resolution 181(II): PART I: Future constitution and government of Palestine: A. TERMINATION OF MANDATE, PARTITION AND INDEPENDENCE: Clause 3 provides:

Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem, ... shall come into existence in Palestine two months after the evacuation of the armed forces of the mandatory Power has been completed but in any case not later than 1 October 1948.

The Arab countries (all of which had opposed the plan) proposed to query the International Court of Justice on the competence of the General Assembly to partition a country against the wishes of the majority of its inhabitants, but the resolution was rejected.

Sounds peaceful to me. You and the arabs may not like the decision, but it was done peacefully. Just like the supreme court ruling on gay marriage, it has been decided whether you like it or not. Quite frankly, I don't see anything unjust about this. Slaughter of innocent children? Seriously? Listen, if children die it is NOT because Israel or I wanted them to die. You can direct the injustice towards Hamas who is DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for that. I don't care if you feel sorry for Israel or not. Israel can and will defend itself and will continue to exist no matter what. If that means an all out war, then so be it. I know who my money is on. I never said U.S. soldiers should die defending Israel. However, having some *****ic president who has no idea what he is doing giving the enemy the financial capabilities to fund terrorism and build a nuclear bomb is what I have a problem with. I would gladly enlist myself in the IDF if I lived in Israel. The bottom line here is this... whether you like or not Israel will continue to exist and the situation will remain the way it is until the Palestinians cause trouble and then Israel retaliates twice as hard. Let's be honest here for a second, if Toronto was firing missiles and rockets into Detroit or Buffalo the U.S. would turn Toronto into a parking lot before the sun rose the next day. Let's stop this hypocritical b.s., ISIS is going around committing genocide, raping, pillaging, and killing innocents while the Syrian people are being massacred and you have the nerve to cause a hissy fit and question the morality of the existence of Israel. Please... get over your self-righteousness and tone down the anti-semitism. Go live in Gaza with the rest of the terrorists that you support so you can get a dose of reality.
 
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-The UN partition plan vote took place in fall 1947. The jews agreed with the vote. the Arabs did not. The UN resolution was NOT enforced
-The state of Israel established itself in May 1948. It declared its Independence and was attacked.
-Jews were a majority in the area that was voted as Israel.
-Forced expulsions of the local population did occur in the war of 1948.

I doubt that there is a piece of ground in the world that blood has not been shed over.
 
Chattanooga, Tennessee (CNN)U.S. Navy Petty Officer Randall Smith, wounded in a shooting rampage in Tennessee, died early Saturday, according to a family member. He is the fifth American service member killed in the attack.

Darlene Proxmire, Smith's step-grandmother, said the logistics specialist was shot in the attack at the Navy Operational Support Center in Chattanooga. It was one of two military sites in the city that were targeted by a gunman Thursday.

The U.S. Navy confirmed the death, saying Smith died at 2:17 a.m.

Smith saw the shooter and warned people around him, according to family members. But he was unable to get away. Smith was shot in the liver, colon and stomach, said his grandmother, Linda Wallace.

Mohammad Youssuf Abdulazeez opened fire, shooting seven people, including four Marines who died that day.

The two surviving wounded are a Marine recruiter who was shot in the leg and a responding Chattanooga police officer, Dennis Pedigo, who was shot in the ankle.

Is the president still calling it "workplace violence"?
 
LOL peacefully. Israel was created on an existing Palestine state by ethnic cleansing. Stop drinking the Kool Aid. Let me see how you react, if someone bulldozed your house that your forefathers built, murdered your children, and put a settlement there, and transferred immigrants to that settlement. If you have any sense of dignity in you, you will fight until death for what is right. So quit this BS with peacefully built. It is bad enough you support unjust robbing of Palestinian land and slaughter of innocent children and you also want us to feel sorry for Israel. And of course US soldiers should die as well trying to defend poor Israel. Israel is a terrorist state and can fend for itself. Why don't you enlist your family in IDF so they can defend Israel?

I don't understand how anyone (especially physicians) can embrace evidence and fact in their livelihoods and then just make up totally false statements in other areas. Please read the history for yourselves:

Prior to 1948 there was no Jewish or Arab "nation" in that area. The British had a colony controlling that territory after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire in the early 1900s and both Jews (~60%) and Arabs (~40%) lived in that land (people can debate prior to 1900 what ethnic group "owned" that land but the fact is both Arabs and Jews have lived there for thousands of years, and there have been many nation states both Hebrew and Arab). After WW2 the British agreed with the UN to partition the land into an Israeli side and a Palestinian side. Unfortunately, soon after the British colonial land was partitioned, forces from Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq invaded the Israeli side. The new Israeli nation, although outnumbered and ill-equipped were able to push back all these forces AND take new key territory (Galilee) which they kept because it was deemed strategically necessary to defend themselves from further aggression (ratified in the 1949 UN peace accords).

In THIS seized territory there were many Arabs who you COULD argue were forced to leave (although Israel did grant them some rights of ownership so that's also debatable). However, DON'T leave the above HISTORICAL context out. Don't make it sound like there was a "nation" comprised of 100% "Palestinians" and suddenly big bad Israel came in and forced them to leave in some sort of ethnic cleansing. That's basically fiction out of your own mind.
 
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Agree "peacefully created" is a joke.

Oops I simultaneously posted pretty much exactly what several other posters did about the actual history if anyone actually cares about the facts.
 

Yeah, he pretends like radical Islamic terrorism does not exist. He will call every act of radical Islamic terrorism carried out indirectly by ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc. "workplace violence", "a lone wolf", etc.

"Hasan -- who fatally shot 13 people and injured more than 30 at Fort Hood in 2009 in what the Defense Department called “workplace violence”-- tells ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi that he wants to join the caliphate."

"I formally and humbly request to be made a citizen of the Islamic State,”Hasan says in the handwritten document addressed to “Ameer, Mujahid Dr. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.”

The irony of it all was that this guy was a psychiatrist!
 
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I am seeing, once again, where a detailed understanding of history is needed.

But as with many, it's not about reality being reality--it's about perception being made as the "reality."
 
Yeah, he pretends like radical Islamic terrorism does not exist. He will call every act of radical Islamic terrorism carried out indirectly by ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc. "workplace violence", "a lone wolf", etc.

"Hasan -- who fatally shot 13 people and injured more than 30 at Fort Hood in 2009 in what the Defense Department called “workplace violence”-- tells ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi that he wants to join the caliphate."

"I formally and humbly request to be made a citizen of the Islamic State,”Hasan says in the handwritten document addressed to “Ameer, Mujahid Dr. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.”

The irony of it all was that this guy was a psychiatrist!
Yeah, that's what I thought. You're just making stuff up. Obama never called the Tennessee attack workplace violence.

Your arguments would carry more weight if you just stuck to facts and didn't try to blur lines like this.

Even though the U.S. Attorney has stated this is being investigated as an act of terrorism, and Obama never said anything about "workplace violence" in this case, you went ahead and asserted that he had. Why? There's no need.


Here's a thought though, just for the sake of discussion. If someone who identifies as a member of an organization at war with the U.S. goes and attacks a military target, is it "terrorism" or an act of war?

Words have meaning. This wasn't terrorism.
 
Yikes..... Blade. Are you really f.cking referencing John Hagee??


I am simply showing that the Conservative right and Jewish Democrats support Israel according to God's scripture. Would you like me to quote Huckabee instead?


Huckabee is "America’s leading Christian Zionist politician."[92] He believes that the land of Israel was promised to the modern-day Jews by God. He has written that, "the Jews have a God-given right to reclaim land given to their ancestors and taken away from them."[93]
 
-The UN partition plan vote took place in fall 1947. The jews agreed with the vote. the Arabs did not. The UN resolution was NOT enforced
-The state of Israel established itself in May 1948. It declared its Independence and was attacked.
-Jews were a majority in the area that was voted as Israel.
-Forced expulsions of the local population did occur in the war of 1948.

I doubt that there is a piece of ground in the world that blood has not been shed over.

I doubt there is piece of ground anywhere in the world that more blood has been shed over. Israel, and Jerusalem in particular, is the spiritual battle ground between the forces of good and evil. Even if my comments offend many on this board it is a belief many, including myself, have concerning the conflict in Israel.
 
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The Obama treaty with Iran is bad for Israel and bad for the USA. It will lead to an arms race in the middle east and eventually war on a scale we have never seen before.
 
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I am simply showing that the Conservative right and Jewish Democrats support Israel according to God's scripture. Would you like me to quote Huckabee instead?


Huckabee is "America’s leading Christian Zionist politician."[92] He believes that the land of Israel was promised to the modern-day Jews by God. He has written that, "the Jews have a God-given right to reclaim land given to their ancestors and taken away from them."[93]

Using a theological argument turns a blind eye to facts on the ground Blade. One could use the same argument to suggest that Ashkenazi Jews aren't even the decedents of the Jews of Biblical times.

It just sounds ignorant listening to John Hagee and the other Christian Zionists who earn millions of dollars milking Christians of hard earned money for a people that care not for them. Jews are laughing all the way to Jerusalem at the fervor that Hagee and the like whip up amongst ignorant Christians in the U.S.
 
The Obama treaty with Iran is bad for Israel and bad for the USA. It will lead to an arms race in the middle east and eventually war on a scale we have never seen before.

One political commentator recently returning back from a trip to Iran commented on the LARGE delegation of German's "looking to get in on the ground floor" to make deals with the Iranians. As they should. WE should also be trading with them. Smart countries find SIMILARITIES and do deals. Everyone wins that way.

Then again, the Germans have something to offer other nations such as manufacturing exports. The U.S. manufacturing base, having been decimated by decades of bad "free trade" agreements leave us with much less to offer. Unless of course it's arms we are selling.....
 
Using a theological argument turns a blind eye to facts on the ground Blade. One could use the same argument to suggest that Ashkenazi Jews aren't even the decedents of the Jews of Biblical times.

It just sounds ignorant listening to John Hagee and the other Christian Zionists who earn millions of dollars milking Christians of hard earned money for a people that care not for them. Jews are laughing all the way to Jerusalem at the fervor that Hagee and the like whip up amongst ignorant Christians in the U.S.

My posts were meant to show reasons for why many Christian Americans support Israel and oppose this Nuclear deal . In addition, the Jewish people have a historical and religious tie to the region known as Israel. God himself gave the land, which many atheists think belong to Arabs/Palestinians, to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Iran hates Israel, Jews and the USA. They are sponsors of terrorism and are an untrustworthy party in any deal. Netanyahu knows the Iranians will cheat on this treaty and will likely speed up their military program (non nuclear) as soon as the deal goes through.

Whatever you may believe about Huckabee or Hagee isn't relevant to this discussion which focuses on the following:

1. Israel has a right to exist in the region. That right is based on history, biblical evidence and divine providence.
2. Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah hate Israel and all Jews. Their goal is the destruction of Israel. They refuse to acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist.
3. Iran is theocracy run by fanatical Mullahs whose goals are Middle East dominance and the destruction of Israel.

If you want to post about Ashkenazi Jews, unethical preachers stealing money, Jews who hate Christians, etc feel free to do so but those points don't alter the argument I'm making about Israel and this treaty (see items 1-3).
 
One political commentator recently returning back from a trip to Iran commented on the LARGE delegation of German's "looking to get in on the ground floor" to make deals with the Iranians. As they should. WE should also be trading with them. Smart countries find SIMILARITIES and do deals. Everyone wins that way.

Then again, the Germans have something to offer other nations such as manufacturing exports. The U.S. manufacturing base, having been decimated by decades of bad "free trade" agreements leave us with much less to offer. Unless of course it's arms we are selling.....


I'm sure the Israeli's find comfort knowing that the former Nazi nation which wiped out 6 million Jews is the leader in making deals with Iran. Once the treaty becomes law the USA and every other nation will trade with Iran.
 
I'm sure the Israeli's find comfort knowing that the former Nazi nation which wiped out 6 million Jews is the leader in making deals with Iran. I'm sure Jews world wide are surprised to find out that Germany is spearheading the effort to arm Iran with all the weapons they will need to wage war on Israel.

I didn't say that the Germans are going to be exporting arms to Iran. They'd need to get in line for that, as I'm sure the Russians and others are already doing so. The Germans will be exporting a host of other products and services, having maintained their infrastructure in those fields.

I didn't say anything of Jews stealing anything from Christians. The Christian Zionists are being led along by Christian Zionist leaders and fear mongers that sound so ignorant it makes me want to puke. All of this biblical prophecy crap is a joke. How is that different than some of the other religious zealots of the world. Can't you see how this is a part of the problem. It's unflinching, and rigid. This is what leads to conflict.

It's hard to have a debate or to negotiate when the other party's response is "the Bible says this.....". Others will say "the Talmud say this....". Others will say "but the Quran says this....". It's really kind of pathetic, taking INTERPRETATIONS of the scripture and applying that as "gospel".
 
I didn't say that the Germans are going to be exporting arms to Iran. They'd need to get in line for that, as I'm sure the Russians and others are already doing so. The Germans will be exporting a host of other products and services, having maintained their infrastructure in those fields.

I didn't say anything of Jews stealing anything from Christians. The Christian Zionists are being led along by Christian Zionist leaders and fear mongers that sound so ignorant it makes me want to puke. All of this biblical prophecy crap is a joke. How is that different than some of the other religious zealots of the world. Can't you see how this is a part of the problem. It's unflinching, and rigid. This is what leads to conflict.

It's hard to have a debate or to negotiate when the other party's response is "the Bible says this.....". Others will say "the Talmud say this....". Others will say "but the Quran says this....". It's really kind of pathetic, taking INTERPRETATIONS of the scripture and applying that as "gospel".


You fail to grasp the problem in Israel. The Jews want PEACE but the other side wants annihilation of the Jewish people. The Jewish Israeli's want peace so they can live their lives and prosper economically. They are well-educated and secular vs the Palestinians/Hamas who are zealots with little education focused on killing and destruction.

The zealots in Iran who control the country want to see every Jew in Israel driven out to the sea.
The Muslims in Iran hate Jews and see Israel as Satan.
 
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You fail to grasp the problem in Israel. The Jews want PEACE but the other side wants annihilation of the Jewish people. The Jewish Israeli's want peace so they can live their lives and prosper economically. They are well-educated and secular vs the Palestinians/Hamas who are zealots with little education focused on killing and destruction.

The zealots in Iran who control the country want to see every Jew in Israel driven out to the sea.
The Muslims in Iran hate Jews and see Israel as Satan.

Many Jews are secular and liberal minded. Whatever. But, the hard liners are growing in number and political power. They drive hardline policies which politicians then feel compelled to implement. This is part of the problem. A big one.

There are some EXTREMELY racist, ethnocentric, and divisive writings in the Talmud. I will not quite or reference them because I really don't want this thread to digress too far. But, not understanding how those that interpret such "teachings" literally keeps one from understanding the bigger picture. The extremists amongst the Jews are no different from the extremist amongst the Islamists in many ways. I do not think that extremists amongst Christians come close to either for the most part. Perhaps a very very small fringe minority but not even sure about that..
 
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Israel has every right to defend itself from real threats. I don't see what this has to do with settlers literally stealing land from Palestinians whom have had enough hardship to last many lifetimes. This is what people have a problem with.
 
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You fail to grasp the problem in Israel. The Jews want PEACE but the other side wants annihilation of the Jewish people. The Jewish Israeli's want peace so they can live their lives and prosper economically. They are well-educated and secular vs the Palestinians/Hamas who are zealots with little education focused on killing and destruction.

The zealots in Iran who control the country want to see every Jew in Israel driven out to the sea.
The Muslims in Iran hate Jews and see Israel as Satan
.

If you really believe this then you are your own worst enemy.
 
I don't understand how anyone (especially physicians) can embrace evidence and fact in their livelihoods and then just make up totally false statements in other areas. Please read the history for yourselves:

Prior to 1948 there was no Jewish or Arab "nation" in that area. The British had a colony controlling that territory after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire in the early 1900s and both Jews (~60%) and Arabs (~40%) lived in that land (people can debate prior to 1900 what ethnic group "owned" that land but the fact is both Arabs and Jews have lived there for thousands of years, and there have been many nation states both Hebrew and Arab). After WW2 the British agreed with the UN to partition the land into an Israeli side and a Palestinian side. Unfortunately, soon after the British colonial land was partitioned, forces from Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq invaded the Israeli side. The new Israeli nation, although outnumbered and ill-equipped were able to push back all these forces AND take new key territory (Galilee) which they kept because it was deemed strategically necessary to defend themselves from further aggression (ratified in the 1949 UN peace accords).

In THIS seized territory there were many Arabs who you COULD argue were forced to leave (although Israel did grant them some rights of ownership so that's also debatable). However, DON'T leave the above HISTORICAL context out. Don't make it sound like there was a "nation" comprised of 100% "Palestinians" and suddenly big bad Israel came in and forced them to leave in some sort of ethnic cleansing. That's basically fiction out of your own mind.
According to Ottoman statistics studied by Justin McCarthy, the population of Palestine in the early 19th century was 350,000, in 1860 it was 411,000 and in 1900 about 600,000 of which 94% were Arabs. In 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews.

There was a sudden, rapid influx of Jewish immigrants that then declared independence and to own the land they had immigrated to over the last 40 years. If that happened anywhere in the world it would result in war.

Palestine wasn't a state for the same reason most countries weren't states back then- the world was divided into empires. Many would-be nations were acquired via war as colonies and possessions that would slowly be granted their independence back over the 20th century.

As to electing terrorists, Hanas has long made the case they were not terrorists but a resistance movement. The EU recently removed them from their terrorist organization list for that very reason. The Palestinians voted for the people they best believed would actually do something in regard to pressuring the Israelis, as the previous Palestinian Authority has proven completely impotent in that regard.
 
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My posts were meant to show reasons for why many Christian Americans support Israel and oppose this Nuclear deal . In addition, the Jewish people have a historical and religious tie to the region known as Israel. God himself gave the land, which many atheists think belong to Arabs/Palestinians, to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Iran hates Israel, Jews and the USA. They are sponsors of terrorism and are an untrustworthy party in any deal. Netanyahu knows the Iranians will cheat on this treaty and will likely speed up their military program (non nuclear) as soon as the deal goes through.

Whatever you may believe about Huckabee or Hagee isn't relevant to this discussion which focuses on the following:

1. Israel has a right to exist in the region. That right is based on history, biblical evidence and divine providence.
2. Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah hate Israel and all Jews. Their goal is the destruction of Israel. They refuse to acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist.
3. Iran is theocracy run by fanatical Mullahs whose goals are Middle East dominance and the destruction of Israel.

If you want to post about Ashkenazi Jews, unethical preachers stealing money, Jews who hate Christians, etc feel free to do so but those points don't alter the argument I'm making about Israel and this treaty (see items 1-3).
Why do the Jews have a right to land that was theirs thousands of years ago and the Native Americans can't just move to Long Island or whatever in the United States en masse and declare their independence for historical reasons? Israel is the only example in pretty much the entire history of the world where we have given a people a pass for such reasons. International law doesn't regard things like divine providence and writings of the bible, so those don't really count either.
 
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The Obama treaty with Iran is bad for Israel and bad for the USA. It will lead to an arms race in the middle east and eventually war on a scale we have never seen before.
If we were uninvolved in the Middle East to begin with, Iran wouldn't hate us in the first place and we could let the whole region turn into a smoldering mess without having to worry about it. Hence why I'm advocating us washing our hands of it all and letting the inevitable happen. Unfortunately we can't withdraw from the Middle East quickly and have them buy that we're really leaving for good, because our history doesn't back that. But if we could get a 30 year buffer between a Middle East war and our presence in the region fading away, I think we'd be okay.
 
According to Ottoman statistics studied by Justin McCarthy, the population of Palestine in the early 19th century was 350,000, in 1860 it was 411,000 and in 1900 about 600,000 of which 94% were Arabs. In 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews.

There was a sudden, rapid influx of Jewish immigrants that then declared independence and to own the land they had immigrated to over the last 40 years. If that happened anywhere in the world it would result in war.

Palestine wasn't a state for the same reason most countries weren't states back then- the world was divided into empires. Many would-be nations were acquired via war as colonies and possessions that would slowly be granted their independence back over the 20th century.

As to electing terrorists, Hanas has long made the case they were not terrorists but a resistance movement. The EU recently removed them from their terrorist organization list for that very reason. The Palestinians voted for the people they best believed would actually do something in regard to pressuring the Israelis, as the previous Palestinian Authority has proven completely impotent in that regard.

So whats your point? These jewish immigrants to a British colony were not forcing Arabs out of their homes and "ethnically cleansing" Palestinians as you and other posters have said. I see you do not quote population statistics after 1917, or statistics from 1948 which would be more relevant when the land was partitioned peacefully by the UN (that is peacefully before multiple Arab countries attacked Israel). Also there were times prior to the 1900s where more Jews lived in that area so quoting the low-point in their numbers to support your argument doesnt support the false premise that Jews suddenly invaded a 100% Palestinian "state" and forced them to leave.
 
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Israel was given by Jesus Christ to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. If you don't believe in that fact (yes it is a fact to anyone who calls themselves a Christian) then you don't believe in the God of the Bible nor in Jesus Christ himself.

God calls upon us (those who believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob which includes Christian and Jews) to support Israel and the Jewish nation. Israel is a State created by God according to his promises to the Jewish people. If Israel is a terrorist nation then Jesus Christ and all his followers are of SATAN himself. Guess which nation/nations believes that Jews and Christians are terrorists to be eliminated from the world?
How do you know Jesus gave them the land? Did he tell you that?
Why don't you focus on things you understand like how gays should be persecuted and spare us your religious hallucinations?
 
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So whats your point? These jewish immigrants to a British colony were not forcing Arabs out of their homes and "ethnically cleansing" Palestinians as you and other posters have said. I see you do not quote population statistics after 1917, or statistics from 1948 which would be more relevant when the land was partitioned peacefully by the UN (that is peacefully before multiple Arab countries attacked Israel). Also there were times prior to the 1900s where more Jews lived in that area so quoting the low-point in their numbers to support your argument doesnt support the false premise that Jews suddenly invaded a 100% Palestinian "state" and forced them to leave.
When did I ever make claims of ethnic cleansing? That was some other guy I disagreed with.

See, here's the thing. Nowadays we view colonialism as wrong. While, legally, Britain may have had the right to allow the Jews to move to that land, in a post-colonial world it's generally viewed as unethical to allow a large influx of people against the will of those that live there, because those people should have been allowed the right to establish their own government to begin with and control their own borders.

As to a historical numbers, Jews were a small percentage of the population there for at least 1,500 years, a trend that rapidly flipped over a 30 year period.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine
 
It's amazing how some pseudo christian ******s have been brain washed and became more Zionist than the Zionists themselves.
If there aren't both Jews and peace in the holy land for seven years, the end times can't happen. And we all know we want us some End Times, amirite?
 
Why do the Jews have a right to land that was theirs thousands of years ago and the Native Americans can't just move to Long Island or whatever in the United States en masse and declare their independence for historical reasons? Israel is the only example in pretty much the entire history of the world where we have given a people a pass for such reasons. International law doesn't regard things like divine providence and writings of the bible, so those don't really count either.

Better analogy based on actual history: what if native americans immigrated to a relatively sparsely inhabited area of montana over 50 years until they were an equal number to americans. The the US government (like the british and UN) agreed to let them have a separate country within parts of montana that were majority native american.

Well I would say that was pretty fair (until the other americans in montana decided to band up and destroy this new native american nation but were badly beaten)
 
Better analogy based on actual history: what if native americans immigrated to a relatively sparsely inhabited area of montana over 50 years until they were an equal number to americans. The the US government (like the british and UN) agreed to let them have a separate country within parts of montana that were majority native american.

Well I would say that was pretty fair (until the other americans in montana decided to band up and destroy this new native american nation but were badly beaten)
One little problem here: Palestine was never"sparsely inhabited"!
Assuming you want to base your argument on "actual history" as you stated, not the history you were lead to believe.
 
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Better analogy based on actual history: what if native americans immigrated to a relatively sparsely inhabited area of montana over 50 years until they were an equal number to americans. The the US government (like the british and UN) agreed to let them have a separate country within parts of montana that were majority native american.

Well I would say that was pretty fair (until the other americans in montana decided to band up and destroy this new native american nation but were badly beaten)
A historical population density of over 250 people per square mile is hardly "sparsely populated."
 
Why do the Jews have a right to land that was theirs thousands of years ago and the Native Americans can't just move to Long Island or whatever in the United States en masse and declare their independence for historical reasons? Israel is the only example in pretty much the entire history of the world where we have given a people a pass for such reasons. International law doesn't regard things like divine providence and writings of the bible, so those don't really count either.

Israel wasn't "given a pass" they fought for and established the state in a war for independence. They have fought multiple other wars since for survival. Hardly given a pass.
The legitimacy of a claim is in part based on the ability to enforce it. Native Americans have zero ability to enforce.
Zionists come in two forms. Religious and secular. The secular version is that only in a Jewish state could Jews be safe.
 
Israel wasn't "given a pass" they fought for and established the state in a war for independence. They have fought multiple other wars since for survival. Hardly given a pass.
The legitimacy of a claim is in part based on the ability to enforce it. Native Americans have zero ability to enforce.
Zionists come in two forms. Religious and secular. The secular version is that only in a Jewish state could Jews be safe.
Winning a war doesn't determine whether you are right or wrong, nor does your ability to defend yourself. Ethics determine what is right and wrong, and ethics have no place for the religious nonsense that has led to the current situation.
 
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