The Law Suit. How is it gonna affect us IMGs?

[BellKicker]

In all the threads all over SDN everybody seems to believe that salaries will go up if the NRMP loses. I honestly can't see what they mean. Can someone fill me in?

The way I see it, no hospital will ever go belly up in a free market system. Hospital X could offer a residency that paid even less than what they pay now and still get the position filled by desperate IMGs.

I really don't understand. I wouldn't like to see the Match go. I don't know so much about it but it seems like a fair system to me.

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[Stormreaver]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by DaneMD:
•The way I see it, no hospital will ever go belly up in a free market system. Hospital X could offer a residency that paid even less than what they pay now and still get the position filled by desperate IMGs.

I really don't understand. I wouldn't like to see the Match go. I don't know so much about it but it seems like a fair system to me.•••••Unfortunately, at this point, it's all just idle speculation. Things being what there, let's see what I can make of it...

1. The residents are complaining that the NRMP allows the hospitals to keep the salaries low, and work hours high. Agreed: on the average, compared to other professions the salaries are low, and the workload high. This is more of an issue for AMGs with their massive debts than IMGs like us. However, I don't know to what extent the NRMP is responsible for it.

2. The residents want the freedom of "shopping around" for the best residency. Now this has advantages and disadvantages. Personally, I too like the Match; since we IMGs have the added luxury of "shopping around" for Pre-matches, we know how bad a non-Match situation could get.

3. OTOH the work conditions for residents, though much, much better than those at home, are poor compared to people working in other fields.

Now, letting my imagination run wild and supposing the Match is eliminated and free-market economy rules, IMGs, willing to work dirt-cheap MIGHT have an advantage. Having said that, there might be 2 types of repurcussions:

1. Programs unable to afford AMGs might resort to hiring IMGs; thus the existing sub-class of IMG-friendly hospitals might be further defined.

2. What would happen if salaries are given on the basis of "competitiveness?" Would this mean an AMG from, say Hopkins or HMS would get a better pay than a state school, and IMGs from the Caribbean get less than AMGs but more than other IMGs? Would this mean different residents within the same program getting different salaries?

The mind boggles at the possibilities.......

 

[Long Hair and a Beard]

I don't think NMRP losing the case would mean abolition of the Match. It would probably lead to more salary for the residents (though I cannot fill you up on how, Dane).

In fact, the pre-match is going to be out from the next year. That would mean only the match will be left, probably making it much tougher for us IMGs.

 

[BellKicker]

Good stuff. Stormreaver, I read through your post several times. The thought of the dirt-cheap IMGs scares me.

But even for American grads..... I mean in a field like Dermatology, where the competition is so fierce, I really can't see the salary going up. It would seem very illogical from a supply-and-demand point of view. I wouldn't be surprised if lots of applicants for residencies would take a pay cut just to get into their desired specialty.

Perhaps I just have a hard time seeing this from the hospitals' point of view.

 

[Stormreaver]

To complicate the issue further is the question of visas. Most IMGs would certainly prefer an H1 visa while others would settle for a J1 visa.....

I'd rather not think of it. My mind hurts.

 

[halothane]

well...the prematch being off is a good thing for IMGs...they will find themselves at better programs. Nowadays, guys who did not get a prematch end up in some good programs, and really good IMGs cave in after the first few interviews because they are offered many( mainly because of cost of continuing to interview and the prospect of geting H1 on time). Should the market forces rule, think of it as the way it is in the engineering sector. IMGs will still find spots and visas. Sometimes a plum spot might even go to a non demanding IMG. I guess it will still be OK....as long as there are 23000 spots and only 16000 US grads. One thing is for sure, even now to get a H1 there is a lot more competition amongst IMGs than to get J 1. Also big name programs dont wanna give H 1 unless the candidate is very very good. The same will continue or even get better for eg. if an IMG is willing to work for 35K but needs a H1 and the US grads who wanna work there are making a fuss and want 100K( and the hospital cannot afford it)...then it is likely the program will hire an FMG. It will be just as it is in the other sectors ruled by market forces.

However while abolishing the prematch for IMGs might mean that getting an H1 could get complicated. A lot of IMGs depend on the prematch to get the H 1 on time. Still programs that are very IMG dependent....will completely opt not to participate in the match. In the end there will still be a lot of IMGs willing to fill positions irrespective of visa status, especially since the no. of IMGs with green cards and US citizenship is increasing.

<TABLE BORDER=0><TR><TD>
<A HREF="http://blog.ravenblack.net/quiz/videogame.pl"><IMG BORDER=0 ALIGN="LEFT" WIDTH=150 HEIGHT=80 SRC="http://blog.ravenblack.net/quiz/videogame/8.png" ALT="What Video Game Character Are You? I am a Scorched Earth Tank." /></A>I am <B>a Scorched Earth Tank</B>.<BR /><BR />
When I have a mission, it consumes me; I will not be satisfied until the job is done. I have a strong sense of duty, and a strong sense of direction. Changes in the tide don't phase me - I always know which way the wind blows, and I know how to compensate for it. I get on poorly with people like myself. <A HREF="http://blog.ravenblack.net/quiz/videogame.pl">What Video Game Character Are You?</A>
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[Stormreaver]

•••quote:•••there will still be a lot of IMGs willing to fill positions irrespective of visa status</font>•••The interesting thing is that the competition for H1 positions is becoming increasignly fierce; while the J1 positions were the more competitive ones to begin with. It'd be interesting to see what fallout the abolition of J1 waivers will have on this application season. A large number of my colleagues would prefer H1s absolutely over J1s, no matter the quality of the program.

Secondly, with the "Premium Processing" option, more programs have been offering H1s this year-- in fact there were some programs which refused to rank anybody who was not coming on an H1.

I'd be interested to hear Kimberly's perspective on this issue.