The limited value of the pharmacy profession is now being put on full display

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

My number is inflationary based before the huge demand occurred. Will we go under $40/hour? Sure that is possible but in the end either demand will bring that number up or schools will be forced to lower costs.

They can currently keep the lie going because pharmacists still make well over $100k. Anywhere you look you still see somewhere around $110 and $120k reported.

I'm not denying or arguing actual yearly salaries vs hourly rates. But $40/hour is what I see in the near future

If you take the average salary of all the pharmacists in the market today then it is still well over $100k due to grandfathering and the fact that it is an average of all pharmacists that include both new grads and pharmacists who have been working for 20+ years. Plus different states have different labor laws so there will always be outliers.

So will pharmacists make >$100,000 in the future? The answer is it depends. For new grads no. For everyone else, it depends on the industry and years of experience (retail excluded). Most people who read these subs are students or new grads so let's not delude them into thinking they will be making what someone with 20 years of experience is making right when they find their first job.

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[wagrxm2000]

If you take the average salary of all the pharmacists in the market today then it is still well over $100k due to grandfathering and the fact that it is an average of all pharmacists that include both new grads and pharmacists who have been working for 20+ years. Plus different states have different labor laws so there will always be outliers.

So will pharmacists make >$100,000 in the future? The answer is it depends. For new grads no. For everyone else, it depends on the industry and years of experience (retail excluded). Most people who read these subs are students or new grads so let's not delude them into thinking they will be making what someone with 20 years of experience is making right when they find their first job.

I have no issue warning new grads. I do it with all my interns. It's also why I train them appropriately so they get the openings when they arrive.

No one agrees with me that you need to grab rxm positions, the number of my interns now that are rxms is in the double digits.

 

[firework]

I generate content and provide accurate insights, while all you do is flame others on this sub and never post anything productive. Nobody says you have to like what I post but I sure as hell aren't going to be pumping sunshine on this sub since students get enough brainwashing from their schools.

In regards to salaries, you clearly aren't keeping with the times nor do you understand basic math. There have already been several independents hiring full time pharmacists at $20-25/hr in the NE or SE, and many chains are hiring new grads on in the mid-$40's/hr x 24 hours which is equivalent to a $25/hr x 40hr job. So keep debating the semantics of this how you will but as it stands most retail jobs are now at the $60k/year and they're still dropping fast.

Your "$25/hr is too low, [nobody would take it so] demand will come back again" comment is also ignorant of the fact that the supply curve is not going to change for at least the next 4 years so this is an invalid argument. The "supply" in your case would be the number of pharmacists looking for jobs who are willing to take $25 but with a 0% job growth in the next 10 years (and it really is -50% or more for retail where this hourly stuff matters but I'll be generous and give you 0%), it doesn't matter if you have all 15,000 new grads being willing to take $25 or 5,000 or even 1,000. You just need one person to be willing to take the next available job at that price point and the deal is done. And quite frankly even if you somehow managed to convince all the new grads not to take that salary, we haven't even discussed foreign pharmacists who are volunteering or working for no pay who would gladly take a $25 salary because relative to their home countries that is more than how much a pharmacist would make anyways. So yes, I can back up my arguments and am not just throwing random numbers out there to sensationalize, unlike you who speak only with ambiguity and in generalizations.

STOP using foreign pharmacists in your argument. You obviously don't know anything about them. Have you ever seen any employer sponsored green card for a pharmacist? None! To practice pharmacy here, these foreign pharmacists have already work 6+ years in a different field with higher than "prevalent salary", or, published a handful of peer-reviewed publications in top journals. This is what it takes to get an "employment based" green card. These foreign pharmacists may volunteer free work to set foot in the door. But, believe me, they will NOT settle for $25/hour. Because they've already earned more than that in a different field. These people have BETTER vision of what to do with life than people who are on $150k debt and are not able to support themselves at 28.

 

[mentos]

Did I hit a nerve?

What do you think is going to happen when schools start telling students that starting rates are $25/hour but we are going to charge you $200k to get a degree? Schools won't be able to keep up this lie forever.

How many will sign up for that?

How many 18 year olds still take on 6 figure debt to major in women's studies, psych, art history, art, African studies, music, sociology, etc? As long as the government gives out loans like candy, schools will continue to charge absurd tuition and the naive 18 year olds will continue to sign their life away.

 

[wagrxm2000]

As long as the government gives out loans like candy, schools will continue to charge absurd tuition and the naive 18 year olds will continue to sign their life away.

Well I completely agree on that

Don't you love how everything comes back to how wrong the government always is?

However I believe students going into pharmacy will pick other majors with $100k salaries if pharmacy ever goes to $25/hour

Students picking these pointless majors have just been brainwashed into thinking they need a degree/companies force people to have a degree to be hired for a position that doesn't need it at all.

 

[rxkrafted]

I don't think the average salary will drop to $25. I can see independent pharmacies go as low as $25-35 but not major chains. I have a feeling retail will be between $48-55 and hospital around $40-48 starting salary while employers become more picky with the credentials so it'll leave thousands of new grads unemployed every year.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

I don't think the average salary will drop to $25. I can see independent pharmacies go as low as $25-35 but not major chains. I have a feeling retail will be between $48-55 and hospital around $40-48 starting salary while employers become more picky with the credentials so it'll leave thousands of new grads unemployed every year.

*with 16-24 hours/week

 

[farm4real]

STOP using foreign pharmacists in your argument. You obviously don't know anything about them. Have you ever seen any employer sponsored green card for a pharmacist? None! To practice pharmacy here, these foreign pharmacists have already work 6+ years in a different field with higher than "prevalent salary", or, published a handful of peer-reviewed publications in top journals. This is what it takes to get an "employment based" green card. These foreign pharmacists may volunteer free work to set foot in the door. But, believe me, they will NOT settle for $25/hour. Because they've already earned more than that in a different field. These people have BETTER vision of what to do with life than people who are on $150k debt and are not able to support themselves at 28.

Amen! I am a foreign grad, and IMHO a foreign grad from a top school is always a better pharmacist that what is now being pumped out of diploma mills.

Why? Just a few of the things that come to mind.....

Selectivity of schools abroad...to get into a top school, that NABP will accept, you have to pass a rigorous test . My school required 3 daylong tests in physics, chemistry, math, and humanities for admissions.

There were 40 applications for each spot (i.e 2.5% acceptance rates). Many countries don't have the resources to waste on poor students with rich daddies, so the government investment all goes to the best schools which are free.

No grade inflation!

The student is not a customer.

No *****s with 2.0 GPAs calling themselves doctors

Access to Joint Commission Accredited hospitals and the latest, top of the line equipment.

You earn it! It is not given to you through low expectations or make-up tests.

 

[Hedgehog32]

*with 16-24 hours/week

At this point and considering the dire the state of the job market (even as compared to what it looked like just 4-6 months ago), would you honestly recommend that new grads who don't have either a job or residency lined up go ahead and make alternative career plans (such as applying to grad school to train for a career in a field with better job prospects) with the plan to defer their grad school acceptance for a year in the off chance that they do actually manage to find a job before the grad school program hypothetically starts in the fall?

 

[deleted562805]

At this point and considering the dire the state of the job market (even as compared to what it looked like just 4-6 months ago), would you honestly recommend that new grads who don't have either a job or residency lined up go ahead and make alternative career plans (such as applying to grad school to train for a career in a field with better job prospects) with the plan to defer their grad school acceptance for a year in the off chance that they do actually manage to find a job before the grad school program hypothetically starts in the fall?

I think if you manage to find a job and get accepted to a grad school with better job prospects. I would work in pharmacy job while going to the grad school. Then, once you graduate, leave pharmacy altogether.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

At this point and considering the dire the state of the job market (even as compared to what it looked like just 4-6 months ago), would you honestly recommend that new grads who don't have either a job or residency lined up go ahead and make alternative career plans (such as applying to grad school to train for a career in a field with better job prospects) with the plan to defer their grad school acceptance for a year in the off chance that they do actually manage to find a job before the grad school program hypothetically starts in the fall?

I feel like you keep asking different variations of the same question. The answer is yes.

 

[Sine Cura]

STOP using foreign pharmacists in your argument. You obviously don't know anything about them. Have you ever seen any employer sponsored green card for a pharmacist? None! To practice pharmacy here, these foreign pharmacists have already work 6+ years in a different field with higher than "prevalent salary", or, published a handful of peer-reviewed publications in top journals. This is what it takes to get an "employment based" green card. These foreign pharmacists may volunteer free work to set foot in the door. But, believe me, they will NOT settle for $25/hour. Because they've already earned more than that in a different field. These people have BETTER vision of what to do with life than people who are on $150k debt and are not able to support themselves at 28.

LMAO, you did not and do not need peer-reviewed pubs to get a green card as a retail pharmacist

 

[Hedgehog32]

I feel like you keep asking different variations of the same question. The answer is yes.

Sorry, I guess there's just an element of (at least subdued) disbelief from my perspective towards the fact that it's starting to become clear that I'm going to be one of the thousands of unemployed new grads in May, so my posts here are probably a reflection of my current mindset, which seems to be in the mode of basically repeating to itself, "Am I really going to end up being one of *those* new grads who can't find a job?" So I apologize if my posts get on your nerves.

BTW, here's a random fun fact for anyone who's curious to hear one. One of the programs I considered applying to during phase 2 is interviewing 50 people for 2 spots. And I thought it was crazy that the hospital I used to work as an intern at interviewed around 70 applicants for 8 spots.

 

[Sine Cura]

Is that really interviews or applicants. Don't know why anyone would waste time interviewing 50 people for 2 spots. And if you are a rando you have to stand out, otherwise hiring managers are just gonna stick with the least unknown quantity

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

STOP using foreign pharmacists in your argument. You obviously don't know anything about them. Have you ever seen any employer sponsored green card for a pharmacist? None! To practice pharmacy here, these foreign pharmacists have already work 6+ years in a different field with higher than "prevalent salary", or, published a handful of peer-reviewed publications in top journals. This is what it takes to get an "employment based" green card. These foreign pharmacists may volunteer free work to set foot in the door. But, believe me, they will NOT settle for $25/hour. Because they've already earned more than that in a different field. These people have BETTER vision of what to do with life than people who are on $150k debt and are not able to support themselves at 28.

Amen! I am a foreign grad, and IMHO a foreign grad from a top school is always a better pharmacist that what is now being pumped out of diploma mills.

Why? Just a few of the things that come to mind.....

Selectivity of schools abroad...to get into a top school, that NABP will accept, you have to pass a rigorous test . My school required 3 daylong tests in physics, chemistry, math, and humanities for admissions.

There were 40 applications for each spot (i.e 2.5% acceptance rates). Many countries don't have the resources to waste on poor students with rich daddies, so the government investment all goes to the best schools which are free.

No grade inflation!

The student is not a customer.

No *****s with 2.0 GPAs calling themselves doctors

Access to Joint Commission Accredited hospitals and the latest, top of the line equipment.

You earn it! It is not given to you through low expectations or make-up tests.

You guys are making irrelevant arguments here. First, getting published in journals and having 6+ years of experience is considered baseline training for foreign pharmacists? That's almost laughable. I won't contend the foreign grad vs diploma mill grad part because I agree, diploma mills need to go, however do you guys realize that 1) plenty of non-diploma mill grads AND residency-trained grads are unemployed and looking for jobs, and 2) the practice of pharmacy is different in other countries than in the U.S. so your so-called "years of experience" in large part will not translate to practicing in the U.S.? If I told you to look up guidelines for diabetes or anti-infectives, for example, you won't know where to look because you won't understand anything about which sources are authoritative in the U.S. Also, drug names and formulations are different in the U.S. vs ex-U.S. so you'd have to go through a learning curve there as well. That is the main issue with foreign grads, and quite frankly the reason why most foreign grads if they do get jobs have jobs in RETAIL because ANYONE can count by 5's.

Second, your arguments are also irrelevant because this is not a discussion about COMPETENCE but about PAY. Even if you managed to convince me that foreign grads are better trained than a non-diploma mill grad, the fact of the matter is that most of the countries that foreign grads come from have universal healthcare (Asia, Canada, UAE, UK, India etc.) meaning that healthcare workers, pharmacists included, make a lot less than in the U.S. so relatively speaking a $25 USD/hr wage is on par or even better than what they would make in their home countries, AND many of them are seeking sponsorships so they are willing to take any rate so long as the employer can sponsor (disclosure: I get tons of these applicants, typically from India, for even non-pharmacist jobs at my organization). Pay is in the eye the beholder.

Third, I am not talking about foreign grads who moved here 10+ years ago just like I am not talking about pharmacist wages 10+ years ago because the U.S. pharmacist job market was not saturated back then. In the past where there was truly opportunity for everyone due to the shortage, foreign grads had much better chance of landing jobs so there are definitely those that have been grandfathered and these pharmacists will do just fine because once you have the experience, education becomes irrelevant (I work with one of these foreign grads who graduated from the UK 15 years ago). But now, a tight job market always favor the employer, who can afford to be picky. So if you are a foreign grad who came to the U.S. just a couple of years ago, what else do you have to offer an employer if you are still doing your internship and there are 100+ applicants for each job, including U.S. PharmD's who "went to top schools and/or did residencies" and you may need sponsorship? You try to undercut by offering to work for lower wages.

 

[Hedgehog32]

Is that really interviews or applicants. Don't know why anyone would waste time interviewing 50 people for 2 spots. And if you are a rando you have to stand out, otherwise hiring managers are just gonna stick with the least unknown quantity

They are literally interviewing 50 candidates for 2 spots this week. I believe they received several hundred applications. The hospital is an Indiana University facility.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

Have you ever seen any employer sponsored green card for a pharmacist? None!

And to answer your question directly, YES, plenty of times. You must be living in a well to make an ignorant comment like that. I've worked in multiple small and large companies and there are always foreign pharmacists who are seeking sponsorship. We usually don't hire them unless we're desperate but most foreign pharmacists need sponsorships so it's a big turnoff to begin with even if we were desperate to fill a role.

 

[firework]

LMAO, you did not and do not need peer-reviewed pubs to get a green card as a retail pharmacist

I'll say it again "NO one sponsors green card for a pharmacist". It's public record. Go on USCIS website and search who sponsored EB visa each year. Do you see CVS? Walgreens? Walmart? Do you understand? You don't even qualify for employment based green card if you are just a pharmacist.

People have so much misunderstanding about foreign trained pharmacists.

 

[Sine Cura]

I'll say it again "NO one sponsors green card for a pharmacist". It's public record. Go on USCIS website and search who sponsored EB visa each year. Do you see CVS? Walgreens? Walmart? Do you understand? You don't even qualify for employment based green card if you are just a pharmacist.

People have so much misunderstanding about foreign trained pharmacists.

If they are not actually working as pharmacists in the U.S. (i.e., as licensed by state boards of pharmacy for distributive functions) then obviously we are not talking about the same thing. $25/hr is referring to what rando independent pharmacies might pay for pharmacist labor

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

I'll say it again "NO one sponsors green card for a pharmacist". It's public record. Go on USCIS website and search who sponsored EB visa each year. Do you see CVS? Walgreens? Walmart? Do you understand? You don't even qualify for employment based green card if you are just a pharmacist.

People have so much misunderstanding about foreign trained pharmacists.

Not all pharmacists work in big chain stores. Holy hell.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

I'll say it again "NO one sponsors green card for a pharmacist". It's public record. Go on USCIS website and search who sponsored EB visa each year. Do you see CVS? Walgreens? Walmart? Do you understand? You don't even qualify for employment based green card if you are just a pharmacist.

People have so much misunderstanding about foreign trained pharmacists.

Let me put this another way, assuming you are right about all this, like you said "people have so much misunderstanding about foreign trained pharmacists" but perception is is ultimately what matters and therefore perception is reality. So keep arguing your points but I along with many, many other non-foreign pharmacists in hiring positions do not even consider foreign grads because we don't want to deal with any baggage that may POTENTIALLY come up front AND down the line. No matter how you look at, foreign grads have MORE barriers to entry to the workforce than U.S. grads, so if anything it is HARDER for them to get jobs. If I am saying that the average new U.S. grad is going to get a $25/hr job, then the average foreign grad will get a $0/hr job because "NO one sponsors green card for a pharmacist" like you say so foreign grads' work options are evenmoreso limited.

 

[BMBiology]

Not all pharmacists work in big chain stores. Holy hell.

But to be fair, big chains hire the majority of pharmacists. Hospitals don't really hire foreign trained pharmacists.

I notice a lot of the foreign trained pharmacists are trained in manufacturing rather than clinical pharmacy. But with easy access to fast information nowadays, anyone can survive in retail just as long as you are willing take all the BS. It is not rocket science.

The U.S. limits the number of healthcare professionals. In other countries, it is pretty easy to get accepted because these healthcare jobs don't pay that well in those countries.

 

[Hedgehog32]

Kind of random, but the hospital I used to work as an intern at has some sort of agreement with the Saudi gov't. whereby SA pays the hospital to allow a handful of Saudi nationals to complete the residency program at the hospital every year. Then they go back to Saudi Arabia following completion of the residency program.

 

[farm4real]

My prayer to the pharmacy gods :

NAPLEX is too easy; please make the test harder so as to separate wheat from chaff.

Some of the statements here about foreign pharmacists reflect an ignorance about the world that is shocking. At the highest levels, we all read the same journals and texts, we all use micromedics in English, we all are joint commission certified, etc etc.

There are bad actors and incompetent pharmacists abroad and in the US. As a profession we should, nay must, have higher expectations.

I imagine many here may be surprised by the results of much harder NAPLEX....it won’t be foreign trained vs US trained that will be shocking, but the gaps among schools ( NABP breaks down results by schools for the US, and lumps 200 foreign countries in one group, as if there were no difference among schools or countries)...but since the bar is so low, I have no proof.

 

[BMBiology]

My prayer to the pharmacy gods :

NAPLEX is too easy; please make the test harder so as to separate wheat from chaff.

Some of the statements here about foreign pharmacists reflect an ignorance about the world that is shocking. At the highest levels, we all read the same journals and texts, we all use micromedics in English, we all are joint commission certified, etc etc.

There are bad actors and incompetent pharmacists abroad and in the US. As a profession we should, nay must, have higher expectations.

I imagine many here may be surprised by the results of much harder NAPLEX....it won’t be foreign trained vs US trained that will be shocking, but the gaps among schools ( NABP breaks down results by schools for the US, and lumps 200 foreign countries in one group, as if there were no difference among schools or countries)...but since the bar is so low, I have no proof.

Here is the latest CPJE and NAPLEX pass rate which shows failure rate for foreign graduates is 2x of California school graduates:

It is true that some foreign graduates are up to par but as a whole, they are not.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Schools aren't ever going to tell students that. Heck, schools don't even tell students the field is saturated. They just keep going on and on about "exciting new opportunities in clinical pharmacy" and "the field is evolving and there is a demand for pharmacists in different sectors" etc etc.

It's the trick of any trade, sale or debate. Focus on the positives and ignore/talk around the negatives.

Well, that's the only way they're gonna make money at this point in our profession. Soon, they won't even be able to do that. Our school sold us on "clinical opportunities" and "provider status". Come to find out, that stuff has been going on for years since the 70's lol Not once, did we come close to becoming "doctors" as much as some of us would like to think so and say some BS like "doctors don't know anything! and they're idiots". To that doctors say... nothing, because we're not even on their radar and they don't even know we exist lol Most doctors don't even know we have a doctorate.

This is why I'll be jumping ship ASAP! pharmacy profession is dying, if not dead already.

 

[farm4real]

Here is the latest CPJE and NAPLEX pass rate which shows failure rate for foreign graduates is 2x of California school graduates:

View attachment 299732

It is true that some foreign graduates are up to par but as a whole, they are not.

 

[farm4real]

Hmmm...
What you forgot to mention:

Foreign grad vs US grad outside of California...pretty close.....by this logic only California schools are up to par?

BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT PART:

US results are broken down by school; schools representing countries with 7 billion people are all lumped into 1 category.

Hard not to see an “-ism” behind this

Break that data down and show which foreign schools are excellent, and compare individual foreign school with individual US schools.......

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

A pharmacist just walked into my pharmacy today asking if we need extra help due to corona pandemic. He looked like he was in about late 50's and said he just had to quit his old job 3 weeks ago due to pharmacy doing fishy things and now is at risk of closing down.

It's all over fam. I do not want to be in my 50's, be going around town asking for a job. But I feel like that will be me in 20 years... get the hell out when you can!

 

[BMBiology]

A pharmacist just walked into my pharmacy today asking if we need extra help due to corona pandemic. He looked like he was in about late 50's and said he just had to quit his old job 3 weeks ago due to pharmacy doing fishy things and now is at risk of closing down.

It's all over fam. I do not want to be in my 50's, be going around town asking for a job. But I feel like that will be me in 20 years... get the hell out when you can!

Marry rich! Should have married a doctor

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Marry rich! Should have married a doctor

Married a biochemist. Makes abit more than I do but she don't got no 200k loan lol She just got me a new car. Yup, got me a sugarmama lolol

 

[deleted562805]

Well, that's the only way they're gonna make money at this point in our profession. Soon, they won't even be able to do that. Our school sold us on "clinical opportunities" and "provider status". Come to find out, that stuff has been going on for years since the 70's lol Not once, did we come close to becoming "doctors" as much as some of us would like to think so and say some BS like "doctors don't know anything! and they're idiots". To that doctors say... nothing, because we're not even on their radar and they don't even know we exist lol Most doctors don't even know we have a doctorate.

This is why I'll be jumping ship ASAP! pharmacy profession is dying, if not dead already.

Man, that was like everyone of my colleagues that wanted to do residency. It’s always the ASHP that promote this.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Man, that was like everyone of my colleagues that wanted to do residency. It’s always the ASHP that promote this.

It's like space travel lol they've been promoting for years yet, has any civilian actually been to "space"? lol NASA's been selling this for years and collecting money from government. Just like pharm schools have been selling and collecting money from naive students who want to be "doctors" lol

 

[sfachine]

A pharmacist just walked into my pharmacy today asking if we need extra help due to corona pandemic. He looked like he was in about late 50's and said he just had to quit his old job 3 weeks ago due to pharmacy doing fishy things and now is at risk of closing down.

It's all over fam. I do not want to be in my 50's, be going around town asking for a job. But I feel like that will be me in 20 years... get the hell out when you can!

Thats the way people looked for jobs old school.Its called pounding the pavement.Its actually not a bad idea.Shows you are generally interested. I don't know how many people have lost a job involuntarily but with retail shrinking and consolidating we all better be prepared.

 

[DagS132]

Thats the way people looked for jobs old school.Its called pounding the pavement.Its actually not a bad idea.Shows you are generally interested. I don't know how many people have lost a job involuntarily but with retail shrinking and consolidating we all better be prepared.

I thought that was the only way to look for jobs, by talking directly with the boss.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Thats the way people looked for jobs old school.Its called pounding the pavement.Its actually not a bad idea.Shows you are generally interested. I don't know how many people have lost a job involuntarily but with retail shrinking and consolidating we all better be prepared.

I agree that it is a good way to look for jobs but my question is, as a medical professional with a doctorate degree, would you want to be doing that? or should you be doing it? How did we get to a point where you have to go door to door in order to find jobs at the age of 50 with 20+ years of experience? No profession in the world is this way. If you think about it, this should scare the s#!t out of ALL pharmacists.

 

[APN-59 rph]

I agree that it is a good way to look for jobs but my question is, as a medical professional with a doctorate degree, would you want to be doing that? or should you be doing it? How did we get to a point where you have to go door to door in order to find jobs at the age of 50 with 20+ years of experience? No profession in the world is this way. If you think about it, this should scare the s#!t out of ALL pharmacists.

It was done deliberately...The chains hated the shortage....the schools and universities saw a gold mine...and deliberately goosed the output of graduates...the board members are all fat and in the pocket of the corps...The insurance companies slammed the door on payments..The students were fished in and didn't foresee the consequences, only that big paycheck...the fact that 75% of the pharmacy trade is high speed drudgery was realized too late....automated systems were deployed...and here we are......

 

[APN-59 rph]

Married a biochemist. Makes abit more than I do but she don't got no 200k loan lol She just got me a new car. Yup, got me a sugarmama lolol

You up for adopting someone? I do yards..

 

[DagS132]

I agree that it is a good way to look for jobs but my question is, as a medical professional with a doctorate degree, would you want to be doing that? or should you be doing it? How did we get to a point where you have to go door to door in order to find jobs at the age of 50 with 20+ years of experience? No profession in the world is this way. If you think about it, this should scare the s#!t out of ALL pharmacists.

Well usually when you decide to quit a job you have to go out looking for another one, even if you are over the age of 50. And yes, ageism is a real thing. So add that to the saturation problem and you got yourself one heck of a profession.

 

[deleted562805]

I agree that it is a good way to look for jobs but my question is, as a medical professional with a doctorate degree, would you want to be doing that? or should you be doing it? How did we get to a point where you have to go door to door in order to find jobs at the age of 50 with 20+ years of experience? No profession in the world is this way. If you think about it, this should scare the s#!t out of ALL pharmacists.

What the heck? This is hard to believe. It does scare me as a new grad. You will never see a 50 year old nurse with 20 plus experience going from door to door for a job or a 50 year old physician with 20 plus years experience. Man, this is prime example that pharmacy is a sunken ship and pharmacists have let non pharmacists dictate and legislate their profession

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

You up for adopting someone? I do yards..

Sorry. I do the yard work myself. While she watches me from the porch...

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

What the heck? This is hard to believe. It does scare me as a new grad. You will never see a 50 year old nurse with 20 plus experience going from door to door for a job or a 50 year old physician with 20 plus years experience. Man, this is prime example that pharmacy is a sunken ship and pharmacists have let non pharmacists dictate and legislate their profession

You're young. Find another profession or find a way out asap. It's not too late. We have ZERO control over this titanic sinking to the bottom of ocean. GTFO ASAP lol

When I'm 50, I would just wanna watch my kids grow up and be successful doctors and laugh at pharmacists lol Oh and watch my investments grow in to millions so I can retire at 60 and travel.

 

[BMBiology]

I agree that it is a good way to look for jobs but my question is, as a medical professional with a doctorate degree, would you want to be doing that? or should you be doing it? How did we get to a point where you have to go door to door in order to find jobs at the age of 50 with 20+ years of experience? No profession in the world is this way. If you think about it, this should scare the s#!t out of ALL pharmacists.

Many pharmacists work for 30 years and they got nothing to their names besides their primary residence. They spend, spend, spend. The stock market just crashed. These pharmacists are not retiring any time soon.

Want to have financial freedom? You need to save > 50% of your income. There is no way around it. @ the end of the day, you are just a pharmacist.

 

[sfachine]

Ive always wondered how many pharmacists exit the profession each year.Its a factor in the saturation poitn along of course with job creation.BLS said no jobs created.Ive read estimates of pharmacist exits from 2900 to pharmacy schools saying 14000.BLS past predictions have not been accurate.

 

[APN-59 rph]

Ive always wondered how many pharmacists exit the profession each year.Its a factor in the saturation poitn along of course with job creation.BLS said no jobs created.Ive read estimates of pharmacist exits from 2900 to pharmacy schools saying 14000.BLS past predictions have not been accurate.

The ever proliferating pharmacy schools became a big part of the problem when they pushed B.S. into Doctorate (so called)...with all that entailed.....doctorate tuition....more classes....longer school Thus..less time to make money for the grads...huge tuition loans...and doctorate level jobs that failed for the most part ..to appear...then they pushed the mail order Pharm_D which landed with a thud. As usual, the culprits in this whole goat rope are long gone..Anyone want to hire on to rope goats? Be my guest..

 

[Secret_Informant]

Schools aren't ever going to tell students that. Heck, schools don't even tell students the field is saturated. They just keep going on and on about "exciting new opportunities in clinical pharmacy" and "the field is evolving and there is a demand for pharmacists in different sectors" etc etc.

It's the trick of any trade, sale or debate. Focus on the positives and ignore/talk around the negatives.

Not just ignore and talk around; such talk is suppressed by school policies. Don't forget behavioral interventions within schools (USF Taneja College of Pharmacy, for example). You are also not allowed to record conversations unless they are for "learning purposes."

 

[jecpharm89]

My number is inflationary based before the huge demand occurred. Will we go under $40/hour? Sure that is possible but in the end either demand will bring that number up or schools will be forced to lower costs.

They can currently keep the lie going because pharmacists still make well over $100k. Anywhere you look you still see somewhere around $110 and $120k reported.

I'm not denying or arguing actual yearly salaries vs hourly rates. But $40/hour is what I see in the near future whether it's for 30 hours or 40 hours per week.

My friend was offered $45 hourly at Walgreens in Ohio in the fall of 2019. They told her they’re hoping to make it mid 30s by this fall.

 

[wagrxm2000]

My friend was offered $45 hourly at Walgreens in Ohio in the fall of 2019. They told her they’re hoping to make it mid 30s by this fall.

My intern from last year was offered $53 in another Midwest state.

I know I'm telling the truth, but are you?

 

[owlegrad]

Is that really interviews or applicants. Don't know why anyone would waste time interviewing 50 people for 2 spots. And if you are a rando you have to stand out, otherwise hiring managers are just gonna stick with the least unknown quantity

Yeah that makes no sense at all. Does the person(s) doing the interviews have 50+ hours to throw away interviewing that many people? What kind of crazy job does that person (or multiple people) have?

 

[jecpharm89]

My intern from last year was offered $53 in another Midwest state.

I know I'm telling the truth, but are you?

Really? Why would I make that up?
She graduated in 2017 and worked at rite aid for a year, made high 50s.
Another friend worked in that same area that graduated in 2015 with me and started at 56 hourly.