The Michigan 21 or Whatever...

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Consigliere

Consigliere

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Anyone know what happened to these ass_hats? How anesthesiology services are working out? Inquiring minds want to know....
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No knowledge, but I expect that those who have stayed have just moved on and accepted the new normal in their lives. As have those CRNAs who left. I am sure that they have hired lots of new crnas in the last eight months who are happy to have a job and don't know or care to know those who left. Or what happened to create a job opening for them.


nobody is indispensable. No fifty people are either. Just a question of how many $ it costs to replace them and is somebody willing to spend them or risk spending them.

The above applies to us too.


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Hi guys - thanks for asking! The anesthesiology group is doing great. It has been a challenging year but with many silver linings. We have hired new CRNAs and some of the "Michigan 68" did come back. We made the year work with a combination of putting ourselves back in the OR which the surgones have loved. We feel more respected by the surgeons and everyone in the group feels more comfortable being back in the OR. From my persepctive, while it has meant working more (longer hours, more weekends etc...) we survived and will continue to provide excellent anesthesia services. Unfortunatley in Michigan the CRNA organiazation (MANA) scored a victory by getting SB 1019 through the Michigan State Senate which allows for CRNAs to practice independtly in Michigan. It still has to clear the state house which we hope we can block - but many CRNAs are likely celebrating their small victory.
 
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siednarb said:
Hi guys - thanks for asking! The anesthesiology group is doing great. It has been a challenging year but with many silver linings. We have hired new CRNAs and some of the "Michigan 68" did come back. We made the year work with a combination of putting ourselves back in the OR which the surgones have loved. We feel more respected by the surgeons and everyone in the group feels more comfortable being back in the OR. From my persepctive, while it has meant working more (longer hours, more weekends etc...) we survived and will continue to provide excellent anesthesia services. Unfortunatley in Michigan the CRNA organiazation (MANA) scored a victory by getting SB 1019 through the Michigan State Senate which allows for CRNAs to practice independtly in Michigan. It still has to clear the state house which we hope we can block - but many CRNAs are likely celebrating their small victory.
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Thanks for the update; glad things are going well. I figured some of the original 68 would return. In so far as that bill getting passed.....who cares. The hospital bylaws dictate whether anesthesia is given supervised or unsupervised. The state law can say whatever it wants; if the hospital bylaws say anesthesia administered by CRNAs MUST be supervised, then anesthesia administered by CRNAs will be supervised, regardless of the degree of ******ation of the lawmakers.
 
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Consigliere said:
Thanks for the update; glad things are going well. I figured some of the original 68 would return. In so far as that bill getting passed.....who cares. The hospital bylaws dictate whether anesthesia is given supervised or unsupervised. The state law can say whatever it wants; if the hospital bylaws say anesthesia administered by CRNAs MUST be supervised, then anesthesia administered by CRNAs will be supervised, regardless of the degree of ******ation of the lawmakers.
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I wouldn't hang my hat on that one. Some surgeons prefer CRNAs because they are more controllable. Think how they might feel if we ever get real tort reform and the surgeons are financially incentivized to prefer CRNAs... As hospital docs become employed, they will be likely to vote the way that administration wants.
 
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dr doze said:
It may be the last line of defense. But I wouldn't count on it being a very strong line.


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Agreed. It's all about the money. Administration will give an ultimatum...we'll keep the bylaws if you take less money.
 
I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about CRNA's. I think most surgeons and administrators know the importance of having Anesthesiologists irregardless if a state allows them to practice independently. CRNA's can practice independently in my state but that hasn't changed how most hospitals operate. We have 13 Anesthesiologists and 4 CRNA's (CRNA's do cataracts and endo). We just were approved for another Anesthesiologist because of our growing needs outside the OR, such as the EP lab. There are lots of jobs available now. More than I've ever seen since finishing residency. And, we have the best job in the hospital!
 
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KungPOWChicken said:
I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about CRNA's. I think most surgeons and administrators know the importance of having Anesthesiologists irregardless if a state allows them to practice independently. CRNA's can practice independently in my state but that hasn't changed how most hospitals operate. We have 13 Anesthesiologists and 4 CRNA's (CRNA's do cataracts and endo). We just were approved for another Anesthesiologist because of our growing needs outside the OR, such as the EP lab. There are lots of jobs available now. More than I've ever seen since finishing residency. And, we have the best job in the hospital!
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AMEN. I've been hearing for decades now that CRNAs are taking over.
Meh.
 
Man o War said:
AMEN. I've been hearing for decades now that CRNAs are taking over.
Meh.
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Obamacare hasn't been around for decades. Neither has ACOs or bundled payments. Are surgeons and hospitals that altruistic that they are going to share more money when for the most part, our job looks pretty easy? Are they going to give half a million dollars a year to someone who does preops?

Sure, they'll keep you around, but you are going to have to accept a lot less money. Maybe in line with what hospitalists are making.
 
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KungPOWChicken said:
I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about CRNA's. I think most surgeons and administrators know the importance of having Anesthesiologists irregardless if a state allows them to practice independently. CRNA's can practice independently in my state but that hasn't changed how most hospitals operate. We have 13 Anesthesiologists and 4 CRNA's (CRNA's do cataracts and endo). We just were approved for another Anesthesiologist because of our growing needs outside the OR, such as the EP lab. There are lots of jobs available now. More than I've ever seen since finishing residency. And, we have the best job in the hospital!
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I believe 'irregardless' is a fabricated word. But I'm sure someone will find a way to 'prove' that it is.


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psychMDhopefully said:
Curious as to why people want updates on this old story.
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hqdefault.jpg


to savor the tears of unfathomable sadness
 
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The only way workers Crna's or physicians to make a statement to hospital admin is to just walk out with very little notice. (Legally while fulfilling their contractural obligations)

So this michigan 68 would have only accomplished goal if they walked out on less than 2 weeks notice or less

The only time I have seen administrators crushed is when all MD group 10 of the 14 walked out on a Friday on 1 day notice (group was on a week to week contract after failed negotiations).

Hospital literally had to shut down ORs for that Monday due to no anesthesia. Community pissed. Surgeons pissed. Cause at real hospital. It takes at min 2 weeks to get temp privileges. But that was close to 10 years ago. Outpatient non hospital entities can slide by the red tape and get people credentialed within 24 hours. But most hospital systems need roughly 2 weeks for temp privileges.

Hospitals have gotten a lot smarter. Management companies have gotten smarter. U see management companies advertising for jobs weeks or months before they even sign a potential contract. So hospitals are duo negotiationing with other companies. Stringing the game along.
 
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But look at the Summa ER story. They got warm bodies real quick with 100k sign on bonuses and $1000/hr.

Looks like the hospital system CEO resigned but the new ER group, USACS, is staying.
 
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nimbus said:
But look at the Summa ER story. They got warm bodies real quick with 100k sign on bonuses and $1000/hr.

Looks like the hospital system CEO resigned but the new ER group, USACS, is staying.
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Whats the summa story. With that kind of pay out. I'll drop everything that I'm doing and move there too....
 
nimbus said:
But look at the Summa ER story. They got warm bodies real quick with 100k sign on bonuses and $1000/hr.

Looks like the hospital system CEO resigned but the new ER group, USACS, is staying.
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US Acute Acute Care Solutions new "ER staffing" company just seems like exactly same company structure as USAP on the anesthesia side. Same investment banking company (Welsh, Carson, Anderson) underwriting the deal.

EM, Anes are bad these days. I don't think radiology is any much better. US medicine is getting worst and worst for doctors in many parts of the country. For those enjoying good work/life/ and great compensation. Enjoy it while you can.
 
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Psai said:
At the cost of your soul I guess
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Not really. We are all (mostly) capitalists here. When it works in our favor.
Where you stand depends often depends on where you sit.

As a young exploited attending or underemployed fresh grad, I would have signed up for a gig like that in a heartbeat. I completely understand the resentment of the younger generation. Of course, If I was one of the displaced attendings in a well respected group, I would view the replacement docs as scabs.
 
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Surprised this thread is still going-
Here's an update - the CRNAs sued the hospital and the health system and the judge presiding over the case just dismissed the case last week.
:)
 
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Well....they got a taste of the independence they so badly want.
Welcome to our world ladies and gents, you lose contracts and get booted out the door. Most of us don't cry and whine and start go fund me accounts though.
 
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