The Minority Card...

[dd128]

So I was wondering what the difference being a minority makes in the application process. I am hispanic, and indicated so on my apps, but I wouldn't feel entirely good about getting an acceptance to meet a quota or especially over a more qualified candidate simply because of my race. Are people of minorities looked at in a different light, like are stats adjusted for the varying groups so they have a better shot? I suppose the application process isn't entirely fair in some cases to begin with (people with parents or friends on committees, prominent positions in schools, etc...but that is a different thread) Anyway I guess I just wanted to know how checking that box affects me and others like me during our applications.

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[Mace1370]

I wouldn't feel entirely good about getting an acceptance to meet a quota or especially over a more qualified candidate simply because of my race.

Then you shouldn't have told them your race on the application.

Are people of minorities looked at in a different light, like are stats adjusted for the varying groups so they have a better shot?

It is easier to get in if you are the right minority (hispanic is one of the right ones). How much easier is impossible to say since it is a very subjective thing, but it is significantly easier.

 

[MDRus]

So I was wondering what the difference being a minority makes in the application process. I am hispanic, and indicated so on my apps, but I wouldn't feel entirely good about getting an acceptance to meet a quota or especially over a more qualified candidate simply because of my race. Are people of minorities looked at in a different light, like are stats adjusted for the varying groups so they have a better shot? I suppose the application process isn't entirely fair in some cases to begin with (people with parents or friends on committees, prominent positions in schools, etc...but that is a different thread) Anyway I guess I just wanted to know how checking that box affects me and others like me during our applications.

we all bring to the table different things. and we all do whatever we can to maximize our own chances to get accepted. go with it and don't worry about other people. they can take care of themselves, and will.

i wish you the very best in this process. i hope the whole package that is "you" will get you acceptances.

check the box with a big check.

 

[Mace1370]

we all bring to the table different things. and we all do whatever we can to maximize our own chances to get accepted. go with it and don't worry about other people. they can take care of themselves, and will.

i wish you the very best in this process. i hope the whole package that is "you" will get you acceptances.

check the box with a big check.

You completely ignored his question.

 

[sully677]

Yes it definitely makes a difference.

 

[MDRus]

You completely ignored his question.

you tried to make him feel guilty for listing his race on the application. get over yourself. how dare you?

and i did not ignore his question.

 

[bellacnella]

...

Did Britney Spears do anything interesting in the tabloids lately?

 

[Phenol312]

I wouldn't feel entirely good about getting an acceptance to meet a quota or especially over a more qualified candidate simply because of my race.

Its good that you have such lofty ideals but if i were you i would take every advantage i could get.

i'm half italian and half roma ... does anyone know if being roma qualifies you as a URM?

 

[Mace1370]

you tried to make him feel guilty for listing his race on the application. get over yourself. how dare you?

and i did not ignore his question.

I honestly answered his question, not my fault if it makes him feel guilty (it shouldn't). If I was one of the right minorities I would take advantage of the system too.

And yes, you did ignore his question. He said: will my race matter? You didn't address that at all.

 

[bellacnella]

Its good that you have such lofty ideals but if i were you i would take every advantage i could get.

i'm half italian and half roma ... does anyone know if being roma qualifies you as a URM?

Totally. Rock on in all your awesomeness

 

[da me ka don]

ha....
Take it to Underrepresented in Healthcare Forum. You might get less biased answers there. It will start a flame war here, if enough people pay attention to it.

 

[Kraazy]

Hmmm, from my perspective (and I'm praying this doesn't turn into a flame war) it's hard to tell whether being a minority will give you an upper hand over more qualified applicants--personally, I don't think so.

However, it will definitely give you a major boost over similar applicants if you are already an excellent applicant. All schools want lots of star applicants, but they get so many of them anyway, that they can afford to ditch a few. But they will fight each other tooth and nail and lay a dozen roses at your doorstep if you are a star applicant AND a minority.

 

[MDRus]

...

Did Britney Spears do anything interesting in the tabloids lately?

her new album opened at #1.

Britney is BACK!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sully677]

I wish that she had not shaved her head!

 

[dd128]

I suppose it can be kind of a controversial issue. No worries though, I think people who get easily offended about their race have other issues Yeah most people say take all the advantages you can get, I guess I would have to be dumb...or lying, not to use everything I can to my advantage. Good luck to everyone!

 

[bellacnella]

her new album opened at #1.

Britney is BACK!!!!!!!!!!!

WOOT WOOT! She's one of a kind

 

[bellacnella]

I wish that she had not shaved her head!

She always can, and does, wear a bad weave anyhow. I am just wondering how the people are gonna get that image of her bald out of their minds. Its like burned into my memory and it makes me cringe.

 

[The Nigal]

Its good that you have such lofty ideals but if i were you i would take every advantage i could get.

i'm half italian and half roma ... does anyone know if being roma qualifies you as a URM?

I notice you checked "caucasian" on your MD Apps, and the AMCAS only lists broad categories and "other" on their form...it makes one wonder what this information is used for.

Obviously in Europe (Eastern Europe and Romania especially) Roma people face a good deal of discrimination, but in the US you basically look like any other typical white person.

If a person grew up facing types of racial hardships shouldn't they also get the benefit of the doubt from AdComs for overcoming adversity, or are schools just looking at skin color?

Or maybe this sort of thing is best explained through personal statements and extra curriculars? It a bit of a mystery as to how the schools really look at this type of data. It seems to me that if your cultural and racial heritage is an important part of who you are then schools could take that into an account of the applicant as a whole individual. Hopefully, no one on a committee is just looking at a single checked box and saying, "Thats the type of student we want."

 

[Bartelby]

we all bring to the table different things. and we all do whatever we can to maximize our own chances to get accepted. go with it and don't worry about other people. they can take care of themselves, and will.

i wish you the very best in this process. i hope the whole package that is "you" will get you acceptances.

check the box with a big check.

Mace, this person did answer the OP's question. MDRus may not have spelled out every word, but you can infer from "...we all do whatever we can to maximize our own chances to get accepted. go with it and don't worry about other people" that the response was "yes, your race will help you and you should use it."

For the record, I agree. If you were poor growing up, mention it. If you grew up speaking several languages, mention it. If you have been able to travel and see the world, mention it. If you have friends on the admissions committee, stop by to stay hello. And if you are from an underrepresented race, mention it. This is the way the world works. Most applicants can find some advantage that is "unfair" from their background, and since as Rus mentioned they will be sure to use it you should too.

Does this mean I would be happy to see, for instance, a ***** whose father works on an admissions committee get in over thousands of qualified applicants? Of course not. But I think that kind of thing rarely happens anyway.

 

[Phenol312]

i checked caucasian because i'm not sure what the general consensus is on ppl of romani descent...skin color is the same as whatever country you find them in. Its the culture and language thats different...so i checked caucasian because I'm not sure if romani is even considered anything more than a social group. there is a romani flag and all that but many countries still wont recognize the romani people as an entity unto themselves.

i feel it would be wrong of me to put down 'other' since i have not suffered at all due to my heritage. although i curious to know if this system is abused at all. what happens in the case of the person who is a minority but who lives an upper class lifestyle are they still considered an URM and given any form of favor?

i feel like im treading on fragile ground here, i apologize if my lack of knowledge on the subject has offended anyone.

 

[Mister Pie]

Yes, it helps a LOT. I don't think that is particularly debatable. What tends to stroke most flames is the question of whether or not that kind of a system is "fair".

I ain't touching that one.

 

[bellacnella]

is there some1 you could ask, like a pre-med counselor? There is also info on the AAMC website about which ethnicities qualify, I believe.

 

[0Complications]

So I was wondering what the difference being a minority makes in the application process. I am hispanic, and indicated so on my apps, but I wouldn't feel entirely good about getting an acceptance to meet a quota or especially over a more qualified candidate simply because of my race. Are people of minorities looked at in a different light, like are stats adjusted for the varying groups so they have a better shot? I suppose the application process isn't entirely fair in some cases to begin with (people with parents or friends on committees, prominent positions in schools, etc...but that is a different thread) Anyway I guess I just wanted to know how checking that box affects me and others like me during our applications.

I wouldn't sweat it. I'm sure you have much better things to worry about than whether you checking that box disadvantaged someone else. It's over and done with. You won't get an interview if you're not qualified is the bottom line.

If you are qualified and can add to the diversity of a program, then why is that a problem?

 

[Phenol312]

couldn't find anything on the aamc website but im willing to bet they dont consider it as a URM. Even if they would let me in under as a URM at some point i would hope i would be asked "as a URM how have you been challenged?" at which point id say um...im upper middle class and most ppl just think im italian.

so that being said...is it still worth looking into this?

...i apologize to the OP for hijacking this thread...

 

[Mace1370]

Mace, this person did answer the OP's question. MDRus may not have spelled out every word, but you can infer from "...we all do whatever we can to maximize our own chances to get accepted. go with it and don't worry about other people" that the response was "yes, your race will help you and you should use it."

For the record, I agree. If you were poor growing up, mention it. If you grew up speaking several languages, mention it. If you have been able to travel and see the world, mention it. If you have friends on the admissions committee, stop by to stay hello. And if you are from an underrepresented race, mention it. This is the way the world works. Most applicants can find some advantage that is "unfair" from their background, and since as Rus mentioned they will be sure to use it you should too.

Does this mean I would be happy to see, for instance, a ***** whose father works on an admissions committee get in over thousands of qualified applicants? Of course not. But I think that kind of thing rarely happens anyway.

I agree too. If you can abuse the system, then do so. I would. That wasn't my point. MDRus may have hinted that your race matters, but he really should have just come out and say it. That's what the OP wanted to know.

 

[just a girl]

It always upsets me when people get mad at people for listing that they are Hispanic when by the OPs definition, they are not... If your somewhat recent ancestors come from Latin America (or arguably Spain) and you identify yourself with them, you are Hispanic. It doesn't matter if you grew up impoverished or rich, speak Spanish fluently, or whether you are white, black, or any other color. Many of the leaders of Latin American countries (Mexico's president, for example) are white and rich. Does that mean they/their kids are not Hispanic? Of course not. If you have Latin American ancestry, then you can put yourself down as Hispanic. It's not pulling a race card, it's who you are.

I also think the definition of "Hispanic" as it is on many application systems needs major revamping... but that's another story altogether...

Oh and for the last time -- Hispanic is not a race!!! It's an *ethnicity*.

 

[TheRealMD]

It has negatively affected you when you start thinking "accept me because I'm Hispanic".

Don't drink that poison.

Besides, you people seem to think there is a URM checkbox like on mdapps. There isn't. Just mark your race/ethnicity on AMCAS and move on.

 

[Maxprime]

In this process, you take what you can get. People with options have the luxury of deciding what they want to take, but for most of us - do your best and take every opportunity to live your dream.

 

[plauto]

Its good that you have such lofty ideals but if i were you i would take every advantage i could get.

i'm half italian and half roma ... does anyone know if being roma qualifies you as a URM?

You are Caucasian! as the ethimology of the word explains it, you (like me) are of Caucasian descent.

 

[Ahmed786]

i checked caucasian because i'm not sure what the general consensus is on ppl of romani descent...skin color is the same as whatever country you find them in. Its the culture and language thats different...so i checked caucasian because I'm not sure if romani is even considered anything more than a social group. there is a romani flag and all that but many countries still wont recognize the romani people as an entity unto themselves.

i feel it would be wrong of me to put down 'other' since i have not suffered at all due to my heritage. although i curious to know if this system is abused at all. what happens in the case of the person who is a minority but who lives an upper class lifestyle are they still considered an URM and given any form of favor?

i feel like im treading on fragile ground here, i apologize if my lack of knowledge on the subject has offended anyone.

You are still Caucasian...it doesnt matter if your culture and language are different, people from Spain are the same color as you also but would be labeled hispanic. People from Belize (a country in Latin America which speaks English) would be labeled Hispanic as well.

 

[MDRus]

I agree too. If you can abuse the system, then do so. I would. That wasn't my point. MDRus may have hinted that your race matters, but he really should have just come out and say it. That's what the OP wanted to know.

of course race matters. EVERYTHING MATTERS. we are all much more than our numbers and if you are vaguely in their range, they will look at the rest of you.

those of us who think higher numbers should get in over lower numbers -- do you live on Mars. Plenty of people will get in ahead of me because of race, home state, gender, where they went to college, mother is a movie star, mommy gave $1000000000 to the school, dad went to the school, the overcame leukemia as a child, etc, forever.

Race is just one of hundreds of variables that go into this process. Anyone who believes that they "lost out" because someone "less deserving" got their spot is living on another planet.

it is 100% fine with me if someone with lower stats than me gets in, in part, because of their race or ethnicity. 100% OK with me of Chelsea Clinton gets in with lower stats. 100% ok with me if a legacy gets in.

 

[pakbabydoll]

Well getting in is all that matters right?

 

[batman1983]

Honestly, lets not be naïve about this. Being Hispanic, as well as African American and a few other ethnic/racial groups, significantly helps in your application process. Even medical schools will acknowledge this. Just do a search on mdapplicants.com for URM people with decent stats and see the schools that they get into vs nonURM ppl with similar stats:

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=2444
http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=1121

Now, I understand and agree to some extent with the argument for why this occurs: URM doctors are more likely to practice in underrepresented areas, URM doctors are more likely to understand the varying cultural and social aspects of an increasingly diverse population, URM applicants often come from more difficult backgrounds (language, economic, etc) than the traditional applicant and deserve some kind of consideration for this, and etc.

Yet, then, we can get into arguments about what is considered a URM. Obviously, Roma would be considered a underrepresented group, yet, with the AMCAS, Roma are considered Caucasian. Another example would be Arabs. AMCAS considers Arabs/middle easterns as Caucasians and hence not URM.

 

[jad2121]

So I was wondering what the difference being a minority makes in the application process. I am hispanic, and indicated so on my apps, but I wouldn't feel entirely good about getting an acceptance to meet a quota or especially over a more qualified candidate simply because of my race. Are people of minorities looked at in a different light, like are stats adjusted for the varying groups so they have a better shot? I suppose the application process isn't entirely fair in some cases to begin with (people with parents or friends on committees, prominent positions in schools, etc...but that is a different thread) Anyway I guess I just wanted to know how checking that box affects me and others like me during our applications.

It makes a huge difference...take a look at mdapplicants. That being said, whatever, who cares if it makes a huge difference. Will you make a good doctor? only you can answer that. If you get in because of race, or because you took alot of aderol for your mcats or because your father is the head of admissions, who cares you are in and you will be a doctor and thats what matters. You shouldn't have principles about this process, few others do.

 

[Old Grunt]

So I was wondering what the difference being a minority makes in the application process. I am hispanic, and indicated so on my apps, but I wouldn't feel entirely good about getting an acceptance to meet a quota or especially over a more qualified candidate simply because of my race. Are people of minorities looked at in a different light, like are stats adjusted for the varying groups so they have a better shot? I suppose the application process isn't entirely fair in some cases to begin with (people with parents or friends on committees, prominent positions in schools, etc...but that is a different thread) Anyway I guess I just wanted to know how checking that box affects me and others like me during our applications.

It will make a difference and you were wise to indicate it on you app.

Altruism is all good and fine, but if you have an advantage due to factor X or factor Y, take it. The system is hokey enough as it is.

I would ignore any advice you get or criticism for simply being involved in the system. There might be a larger debate about the URM status, it's need, and it's purpose, but that won't be solved within your application cycle and it certainly won't be solved on SDN.

I am most definately not an URM and can't fault you for doing your best to get in somewhere.

 

[bluesTank]

Yet, then, we can get into arguments about what is considered a URM. Obviously, Roma would be considered a underrepresented group, yet, with the AMCAS, Roma are considered Caucasian. Another example would be Arabs. AMCAS considers Arabs/middle easterns as Caucasians and hence not URM.

The qualification as a URM takes into account the % of the race/ethnicity that is in medicine (which is a HUGE % for Arabs/middle easterns so they are not URM) as well as the % of the general population that is the race/ethnicity. For example in Texas there is a huge Hispanic % of the population, yet very few Hispanic doctors...therefore URM. Is there a large % of Romans and Italians in America that are ill represented by doctors? No.

Its all very complicated and this is only my understanding of it though...

 

[Kraazy]

Yet, then, we can get into arguments about what is considered a URM. Obviously, Roma would be considered a underrepresented group, yet, with the AMCAS, Roma are considered Caucasian. Another example would be Arabs. AMCAS considers Arabs/middle easterns as Caucasians and hence not URM.

It's not about being a minority, it's about being underrepresented specifically in medicine. Big difference. E.g. Asians are a minority, but def. not underrepresented in medicine.

 

[The Nigal]

Sorry, to change the topic again....but just a quick point. Roma is different than Roman. Roma usually refers to the Romani people, or what is colloquially termed Gypsies. Though I believe the word Gypsy is out of favour because of all the negative connotations associated with it.

 

[batman1983]

I dont disagree with you on the formal definition of URM, but for example, Roma(not "romans/italians", mostly commonly referred to as gypsies) are underrepresented in medicine, yet, are ethnically considered Caucasian. As for middle easterns, I have heard that Persians are overrepresented, but was not sure about arabs being overrepresented. My whole point was that Romas as well as arabs are both considered Caucasian rather than their own ethnic group by AMCAS, and thus not considered URM by that classification. Yet, if they were isolated into their own group, then they might be considered URM.

 

[Kraazy]

My whole point was that Romas as well as arabs are both considered Caucasian rather than their own ethnic group by AMCAS, and thus not considered URM by that classification. Yet, if they were isolated into their own group, then they might be considered URM.

Do we really know that? I've never seen any stats on this.

 

[TheRealMD]

URM != minority, otherwise asians would be URMs. Don't get confused people. It's all about being relative to the population as a whole.

 

[pakbabydoll]

I emailed AMCAS about this issue because I am Pakistani Asian and was wondering if we as a group are over represented or under represented. Anyway they emailed me back and said that now it depends on the shcool and the applicants applying to that school.