The MS Advantage-Pre Dent Ed of 1st Yr Enrollees 07-11

[doc toothache]

Applying without a degree.

A number of posts have questioned the advisability of applying to DS after only completing the pre requisites and without a degree in hand. Although the number of enrollees with 2 and 3 yrs of college has doubled since 2007, they represent a very small percentage.

The Master's Advantage.

There has been a roughly 50% increase in the number of enrollees with an MS since 2007. There is also been ~2% increase over 2010. This should be good news for those who wondered whether the additional degree was worth the effort. Interestingly, the number of enrollees with a Ph.D. has been on the decline.

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[DoeAdeer]

Applying without a degree.

A number of posts have questioned the advisability of applying to DS after only completing the pre requisites and without a degree in hand. Although the number of enrollees with 2 and 3 yrs of college has doubled since 2007, they represent a very small percentage.

The Master's Advantage.

There has been a roughly 50% increase in the number of enrollees with an MS since 2007. There is also been ~2% increase over 2010. This should be good news for those who wondered whether the additional degree was worth the effort. Interestingly, the number of enrollees with a Ph.D. has been on the decline.

I'm afraid the doc's practice is about to go out of business since he apparently has so much time on his hands.

 

[Zbtb7]

I think dental schools are adopting the same model as medical schools. Applicants with uncompetitive undergrad gpas are doing special masters programs to compensate and show adcoms they can hack professional school. In programs like the Tufts MBS and BU's MA MS, an (increasing) portion of the class are predental students.

 

[doc toothache]

I'm afraid the doc's practice is about to go out of business since he apparently has so much time on his hands.

Are you losing sleep?

 

[KittySquared]

This is delicious

 

[vinnie83]

There has been a roughly 50% increase in the number of enrollees with an MS since 2007. There is also been ~2% increase over 2010. This should be good news for those who wondered whether the additional degree was worth the effort.

This indicates that there are an increasing number of people attending dental school with an MS. I don't see how this translates into improving those individuals chances of admissions or even that the effort was worth it.

 

[uva09]

Ah, more from the ACME college of Statistical Analysis.

I guess we still don't quite understand the concepts of causal relationships and confounding factors.

Information is not provided on the type or scope of Masters and Doctoral degrees earned. A student could easily acquire an M.S. in Accounting or a Ph.D. in Literature, for example - neither of which bear much practical relevance to Dentistry. How would anyone know based on the data? Answer: You don't. Information is not provided on when said degrees were earned. An applicant could apply to Dental School well before beginning a Masters program - leaving few critical metrics aside from the listed institution and proposed coursework. This data fails to account for or distinguish alternate Masters programs relevant to healthcare such as the M.P.H. or M.H.A. - of which many students matriculate with. Information does not highlight mid-career professionals with said advanced degrees. Information is not provided as to whether a grade deficiency necessitated graduate work. And the list goes on and on...

 

[uva09]

This indicates that there are an increasing number of people attending dental school with an MS. I don't see how this translates into improving those individuals chances of admissions or even that the effort was worth it.

You are correct. No causality can be established based on this data alone.

I suppose if we discovered a 50% increase in the number of enrollees with 5+ siblings, we could have doc toothache tell prospective applicants to convince their parents to have more kids in order to increase their chances of admission...

 

[doc toothache]

Information is not provided on the type or scope of Masters and Doctoral degrees earned. A student could easily acquire an M.S. in Accounting or a Ph.D. in Literature, for example - neither of which bear much practical relevance to Dentistry. How would anyone know based on the data? Answer: You don't. Information is not provided on when said degrees were earned. An applicant could apply to Dental School well before beginning a Masters program - leaving few critical metrics aside from the listed institution and proposed coursework. This data fails to account for or distinguish alternate Masters programs relevant to healthcare such as the M.P.H. or M.H.A. - of which many students matriculate with. Information does not highlight mid-career professionals with said advanced degrees. Information is not provided as to whether a grade deficiency necessitated graduate work. And the list goes on and on...

You will have to lodge your complaint with the ADEA.

 

[vinnie83]

You will have to lodge your complaint with the ADEA.

I don't think anyone here has an issue with the ADEA's statistics, it appears that they just made some charts with data that was readily available from applications and took minimal effort to compile and were not trying to prove that having an MS is or is not beneficial. What everyone has an issue with is the conclusions/statements you are making based on those statistics.

I was unable to find those statistics on the ADEA website and am assuming they merely posted the numbers, but if they did in fact state that having in MS was 'worth the effort' please post a link.

 

[uva09]

You will have to lodge your complaint with the ADEA.

Believe it or not, ADEA does not publish these data sets for online personalities besotted with analytical ignorance to pander to prospective applicants.

 

[DoeAdeer]

Believe it or not, ADEA does not publish these data sets for online personalities besotted with analytical ignorance to pander to prospective applicants.

 

[doc toothache]

I was unable to find those statistics on the ADEA website and am assuming they merely posted the numbers, but if they did in fact state that having in MS was 'worth the effort' please post a link.

Oh, you mean one needs a nudge from an anointed "analyst" to make a conclusion on whether it was worth the effort. Check that.

 

[vinnie83]

Oh, you mean one needs a nudge from an anointed "analyst" to make a conclusion on whether it was worth the effort. Check that.

I asked you to post the link being pretty sure there wasn't one, but gave you the opportunity to give yourself an out and myself a chance to redirect my comments towards the ADEA. Anyone is free to make a conclusion, but if you make a stupid one that you can't support expect to be called out.

 

[cschoet]

Many posts in this thread make me happy that dental schools interview applicants before admission.

 

[uva09]

Here is a very simple "for-dummies" flow-chart that a prospective applicant could use in assessing the relative value of graduate coursework or advanced degrees with regards to the DS admissions process - instead of relying upon ill-crafted Excel spreadsheets and unfounded conclusions...

1. Discuss your Academic Record, Application, and Career Aspirations with your current or past Institution's Career Services Advisors.

2. Review personal applicant metrics and field any unresolved, critical questions with the desired Dental School Admissions' personel, not SDN.

3. Reasonably determine if you carry a grade deficiency that cannot be adequately counterbalanced by other components of your application. If, 'NO', move to LINE 4. If, 'YES', move to LINE 5.

4. Do you carry a genuine interest in Graduate Coursework for further Academic, Professional, or Personal enrichment? If, 'NO', move to LINE 6. If, 'YES', move to Line 5.

5. Apply to a Graduate program or Postbaccaluareate program, where applicable, before applying to Dental School(s). Consider followup visits to LINE 1 and LINE 2.

6. Apply directly to Dental School(s).

 

[Zbtb7]

Here is a very simple flow-chart that a prospective applicant could use in assessing the relative value of graduate coursework or advanced degrees with regards to the DS admissions process - instead of relying upon ill-crafted Excel spreadsheets and unfounded conclusions...

1. Discuss your Academic Record, Application, and Career Aspirations with your current or past Institution's Career Services Advisors.

2. Review personal applicant metrics and field any unresolved, critical questions with the desired Dental School Admissions' personel, not SDN.

3. Reasonably determine if you carry a grade deficiency that cannot be adequately counterbalanced by other components of your application. If, 'NO', move to LINE 4. If, 'YES', move to LINE 5.

4. Do you carry a genuine interest in Graduate Coursework for further Academic, Professional, or Personal enrichment? If, 'NO', move to LINE 6. If, 'YES', move to Line 5.

5. Apply to a Graduate program or Postbaccaluareate program, where applicable, before applying to Dental School(s). Consider followup visits to LINE 1 and LINE 2.

6. Apply directly to Dental School(s).

This... is awesome.

 

[vinnie83]

Many posts in this thread make me happy that dental schools interview applicants before admission.

If you're referring to me then several schools need to refine there interview process because they thought I was a suitable candidate. Don't worry though, they will have many chances to weed me out over the next four years if they see fit.

 

[Parklife]

Great thread. Thanks

 

[jwnichols21]

Sorry if this is a silly question, but the BACC section means # of 1st-year students who applied after completing a full four years of college? I'm assuming since it was the category with the highest numbers. Thanks.

 

[ushaseos]

Many posts in this thread make me happy that dental schools interview applicants before admission.

Moot point, friend. There is no surefire solution to the problem you're hinting at.

If you're referring to me then several schools need to refine there interview process because they thought I was a suitable candidate. Don't worry though, they will have many chances to weed me out over the next four years if they see fit.

I can't speak for cschoet, but I felt it was just a comment on the general tenor of the discussion rather than singling any one person out.

 

[Zbtb7]

This new thread supports the "Masters Advantage" concept that Doc Toothache was talking about.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=937959

 

[doc toothache]

Sorry if this is a silly question, but the BACC section means # of 1st-year students who applied after completing a full four years of college? I'm assuming since it was the category with the highest numbers. Thanks.

It refers to holders of a degree at time of matriculation.

Information is not provided on the type or scope of Masters and Doctoral degrees earned. A student could easily acquire an M.S. in Accounting or a Ph.D. in Literature, for example - neither of which bear much practical relevance to Dentistry. How would anyone know based on the data? Answer: You don't. Information is not provided on when said degrees were earned. An applicant could apply to Dental School well before beginning a Masters program - leaving few critical metrics aside from the listed institution and proposed coursework. This data fails to account for or distinguish alternate Masters programs relevant to healthcare such as the M.P.H. or M.H.A. - of which many students matriculate with. Information does not highlight mid-career professionals with said advanced degrees. Information is not provided as to whether a grade deficiency necessitated graduate work. And the list goes on and on...

You are making an erroneous assumption that all graduate degrees need to "bear practical relevance to dentistry", when in fact it, roughly 30% of enrollees have undergraduate degrees that are non natural sciences. The relevancy of the metrics comes into play only if they are below the standard ds deem acceptable and those applicants are seeking graduate degrees to improve their gpa. Suggesting that a graduate degree does not improve one's chances of acceptance is like suggesting that an undergraduate degree is not much of an advantage over those with only the prerequisites under their belt. Incidentally, dentistry is not a proper noun and does not require capitalization, and in your context, neither does dental school. Since it is not particularly relevant, the ADEA does not supply any information when either undergraduate or graduate degrees were awarded nor does it supply information on "mid-carrer professional with said advanced degrees". With the proliferation of post baccs and Special Master's Programs it is reasonable to expect to see an increase in the number of enrollees with those credentials.

This new thread supports the "Masters Advantage" concept that Doc Toothache was talking about.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=937959

By Jove! Will this qualify as the missing link?