The Nature of Prestige in Medicine

[arsenewenger]

The janitors at Baylor do a good job. Especially the ones that work in the science building. The bathrooms are always spotless.

At least they get too use a plunger and some sort of scoopy device when they unclog the toilets. All we get is our hand and a glove when disimpacting someone else's bowel.

Since the Op wants prestige... He/she should ,probably, start studying for JCAT (Janitorial College Admission test).

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[NCF145]

I could care less what you want to do, if I'd have known some firefighters I would have asked them. At least they wouldn't have spent hours telling me that I clearly wasn't good enough to get into firefighting school, and they're going to get all the girls in all the bars.

True they wouldn't have, but only because they are too busy washing their fire engine topless and posing for their charity calendar.

 

[Eric Lindros]

Clearly why I'm constantly fueling the flames, talking about how awesome dentistry is and how just awful it must be to do a residency right?

I just wanted to ask a question. I could care less what you want to do, if I'd have known some firefighters I would have asked them. At least they wouldn't have spent hours telling me that I clearly wasn't good enough to get into firefighting school, and they're going to get all the girls in all the bars.

I just think it's funny how you are really the only one bringing up all of the classic dental bashing lines. I don't think anyone else but you even cares

 

[HumbleMD]

I just think it's funny how you are really the only one bringing up all of the classic dental bashing lines. I don't think anyone else but you even cares

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

FOUND IT!
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=369081

In above thread, I posted this list of jobs that are more prestigious than doctor:

Higher Designations and Honors than "Medical Doctor"

1.) Talented Lovemaker
2.) Having an enormous penis, both length and girth
3.) The First Man to Understand Women
4.) Being the first one in line for a Nintendo Wii on the day it comes out.
5.) Being the first one to beat the **** out of the first one in line for a Nintendo Wii the day it comes out.
6.) The Guy with the Uber Hot Girlfriend
7.) The Guy who got to sleep with Jessica Alba
8.) The Guy who got to sleep with Eva Mendes
9.) The Guy who got to sleep with that one Victorias Secret Model
10.) The Guy who got to sleep with the Olsen Twins (at the same time!!)
11.) The Guy who got to sleep with Jessica Simpson
12.) The Guy who got to sleep with Paris AND Nicole (at the same time!!)
13.) The Guy who got to sleep with Hillary AND Haley Duff (at the same time!!)
14.) The Guy who got to sleep with.... you get the idea, just gets twisted from here on out
15.) The first person to finish reading a copy of Deathly Hallows
16.) The first person ever to post on SDN
17.) The last person ever to post on SDN
18.) The first person to walk on Jupiter
19.) The first person to meet an alien
20.) The first... you get the idea
21.) The Man who Lost 500 pounds
22.) EternalRage
23.) braluk

 

[armorshell]

I just think it's funny how you are really the only one bringing up all of the classic dental bashing lines. I don't think anyone else but you even cares

Check the first page of the thread. Could definitely be possible that my sheilds are up, too used to taking crap

 

[Eric Lindros]

Check the first page of the thread. Could definitely be possible that my sheilds are up, too used to taking crap

guess my point is, if you weren't trying to look for a fight, why didn't you start this thread in the pre dental forum? Are you contending that pre-dents do not go into dentistry because of the prestige? Because if you are I would really have to disagree. In fact, I would argue that not only is dentistry a prestigious field, but the same proportion of students who go into medicine for the prestige also go into dentistry for the prestige.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

but the same proportion of students who go into medicine for the prestige also go into dentistry for the prestige.

And also to f*** the tooth fairy

 

[armorshell]

guess my point is, if you weren't trying to look for a fight, why didn't you start this thread in the pre dental forum? Are you contending that pre-dents do not go into dentistry because of the prestige? Because if you are I would really have to disagree. In fact, I would argue that not only is dentistry a prestigious field, but the same proportion of students who go into medicine for the prestige also go into dentistry for the prestige.

In the DDS vs MD threads that plague the pre-dent forum, one of the most often cited reasons to go MD is "prestige", hence, this thread. I wanted opinions from people who actually know they want to be an MD, not that they want to do something involving scrubs and the title "Dr."

 

[transmetropol]

This was hilarious...im still wiping tears from my eyes<sniff>. BTW guys, the culture rewards (with large bonuses) bankers and hedge fund managers. Who cares if your profession is (or isnt) "the most respected" when you're flying in your private jet over st. tropez?

And incidentally Ive had no fewer than 3 med students tell me that training to be a dentist is pretty much the same as training to be a doctor except you get paid more when you get out...the grass is always greener on the other side.

 

[pennybridge]

the grass is always greener on the other side.

no it's not, the grass on the other side is growing on someone's teeth and you get paid to scrape it off. sounds like fun.

 

[MDizzy]

Physicians are trained in the whole body. Dentists are trained in just the mouth. Physicians go through about twice the schooling/training than dentists. Which career do you think the public holds in higher esteem/prestige?

The OP either:

1) has no common sense
2) is in denial because he/she is a pre-dent/dentist
3) is trolling
4) all of the above

 

[happysquirrel]

I watched that movie, The Prestige, last night.

I wasn't expecting much but it had Batman AND Wolverine in it.


It was really good.

as for your question, yes, an important factor in deciding to go into medicine was indeed having the ability to make fun of dentists.

 

[apnea]

And also to f*** the tooth fairy

and i just found my halloween costume

 

[kdburton]

I want to become a physician because I have a personal vendetta against evolution

LOL I had a convo about that with one of my profs Hes like "why do you want to be a doctor, all you'll be doing is aiding in the propogation of a bunch of diseases that otherwise would have been taken care of by evolution." Of course he was being sarcastic, but I hadn't thought about it like that very much.

 

[kdburton]

In the DDS vs MD threads that plague the pre-dent forum, one of the most often cited reasons to go MD is "prestige", hence, this thread. I wanted opinions from people who actually know they want to be an MD, not that they want to do something involving scrubs and the title "Dr."

If I had to choose between DDS and MD, I would consider prestige a factor. Although dentists make a great living (and much earlier than doctors for that matter) - which by itself leads to prestige in many peoples' eyes - I believe that most people would still think being a medical doctor is more prestigious. I am excited for the day that I have an M.D. after my name, but it was only one small reason out of many that I chose to go into medicine. As someone stated above, I think that anyone is lying if they said that prestige didn't pop into their head at one point when they made the decision to pursue a career in medicine.

 

[brianmartin]

In the DDS vs MD threads that plague the pre-dent forum, one of the most often cited reasons to go MD is "prestige", hence, this thread. I wanted opinions from people who actually know they want to be an MD, not that they want to do something involving scrubs and the title "Dr."

I don't know who you are talking to but I've never heard anyone in any of my classes cite "prestige" as a factor in their decision to pursue medicine.

You could not ask the question, "Would you still go into medicine if it wasn't prestigious" because there is no way it could NOT be prestigious. It's just the nature of the job. People have to trust their physician, or else the system wouldn't work. It's not because doctors wear white coats, it's because they are, the vast majority of the time, trustworthy and competent. I'm pursuing medicine for the same reasons everyone does - interest in science and the human body, desire to make people healthy, etc. "Prestige" has never been a factor.

Any job where people are making a difference, doing really neat things...there will be a certain amount of prestige, stemming from the fact that it is a group of highly competent people doing something important.

This prestige talk is so superficial, like how every 5 year old wants to be a firefighter because they like the uniform. At a certain point, you become an adult and stop viewing yourself through the eyes of others...

 

[arsenewenger]

If I had to choose between DDS and MD, I would consider prestige a factor. Although dentists make a great living (and much earlier than doctors for that matter) - which by itself leads to prestige in many peoples' eyes - I believe that most people would still think being a medical doctor is more prestigious. I am excited for the day that I have an M.D. after my name, but it was only one small reason out of many that I chose to go into medicine. As someone stated above, I think that anyone is lying if they said that prestige didn't pop into their head at one point when they made the decision to pursue a career in medicine.[/quote]



This is the ''stupidest'' thing ever said on sdn.

 

[bklyn1028]

I watched it too. It was an interesting movie.

the prestige was absolutely terrible.....
The Illusionist blew it away!

 

[psipsina]

If I had to choose between DDS and MD, I would consider prestige a factor. Although dentists make a great living (and much earlier than doctors for that matter) - which by itself leads to prestige in many peoples' eyes - I believe that most people would still think being a medical doctor is more prestigious. I am excited for the day that I have an M.D. after my name, but it was only one small reason out of many that I chose to go into medicine. As someone stated above, I think that anyone is lying if they said that prestige didn't pop into their head at one point when they made the decision to pursue a career in medicine.

While I think its fine that you considered it, I think its odd that you assume that everyone else did and we're all just too ashamed to admit it. My mom always pushed me to be a doctor or a lawyer (ode to jewish moms), for the prestige of course, and I refused to even consider this path for a long time because I was rather repullsed by this mentality. I eventually realized that for my own reasons this was the right path but the whole stuck up nature of being a doctor really bothered me for a long time. I will be the first doctor in my husbands family, and my mother in law has taken on this annoying habit of telling everyone she meets that I'm going to be a doctor (like, everyone) and while its adorable that she's so proud of me I vomit in my mouth a bit every time she does it.

 

[Chulito]

If I had to choose between DDS and MD, I would consider prestige a factor. Although dentists make a great living (and much earlier than doctors for that matter) - which by itself leads to prestige in many peoples' eyes - I believe that most people would still think being a medical doctor is more prestigious. I am excited for the day that I have an M.D. after my name, but it was only one small reason out of many that I chose to go into medicine. As someone stated above, I think that anyone is lying if they said that prestige didn't pop into their head at one point when they made the decision to pursue a career in medicine.

This is the ''stupidest'' thing ever said on sdn.

While I think its fine that you considered it, I think its odd that you assume that everyone else did and we're all just too ashamed to admit it.

I imagine what KD is saying (and many have said before him) is that whatever prestige medicine affords is there regardless of what we think of it, and it's almost impossible to be completely neutral towards it. It is a factor, and if you've considered medicine (and haven't just jumped into it without any reflection), then you're aware of it. There may indeed be a few who are actually repulsed by prestige (and not just by most prestigious people), and who are going into medicine in spite of its burden; but since prestige is a positive thing by definition, I suspect that most people at least consider it a nice little perk--not the purpose for choosing the career, not a great motivating factor, but a positive factor none the less. I also suspect that for a non-trivial minority of people, it's considerably more significant than this.

 

[kdburton]

This is the ''stupidest'' thing ever said on sdn.

Really? I'm not saying that you sat there and thought to yourself "Man I want a career where I'm well respected and that is seen as prestigous... I'm gunna become a doctor." Usually there is a portfolio of factors, with different weights depending on each individual person, that go into making a career decision. One thing that I learned when I was in college was that I wanted a career that was well respected in my community and one that afforded me the ability to make important decisions. Many people associate an MD with success and achievement, because it takes a lot of those two in order to get through all of the school and training. That is what prestige is. If being a doctor had the same prestige as being an elemtary school janitor (everything else being equal), would that have a negative impact - even a slight one - on your decision to devote your life to a career in medicine? Probably

I'd also make the same argument about people thinking about the monetary rewards of a career as a physician when deciding to attend medical school. Anyone who says this didn't influence their decision in some way or another is lying. Unless you hit the lottery or have rich parents who are willing to support you through all the school, you would have to be insane to go $150-200k in debt if you weren't going to be well compensated for it. What if doctors got paid $40-50k/yr their entire career? That would certainly make me change my mind. I'd rather have a rational person operating on me than an insane "saint"

 

[kdburton]

I imagine what KD is saying (and many have said before him) is that whatever prestige medicine affords is there regardless of what we think of it, and it's almost impossible to be completely neutral towards it. It is a factor, and if you've considered medicine (and haven't just jumped into it without any reflection), then you're aware of it. There may indeed be a few who are actually repulsed by prestige (and not just by most prestigious people), and who are going into medicine in spite of its burden; but since prestige is a positive thing by definition, I suspect that most people at least consider it a nice little perk--not the purpose for choosing the career, not a great motivating factor, but a positive factor none the less. I also suspect that for a non-trivial minority of people, it's considerably more significant than this.

Exactly. And in either case, whether you want prestige or you are repulsed by it, you've at least considered it in your pursuit of a career in medicine. Its almost impossible not to have realized that it exists in such a career.

 

[notdeadyet]

I think folks will find that prestige really wanes as you get older. When you're a young kid, you think that policemen are larger-than-life demigods. I think that you'll find doctors are no better or worse than anyone else out there: extremeley human.

You get heroes and sleazebags in any profession. Anyone who makes a judgement about someone based on how they make their honest living hasn't been around the block too many times.

 

[MDizzy]

I'll spell it out for the OP:

The nature of prestige in Medicine (off the top of my head)

1) Highest paid professionals out there on average
2) Undisputed leaders of healthcare
3) One of the oldest professions in history
4) Make decisions that affect quality of life AND life and death of humans
5) Longest schooling/training (phD and postdoc isnt really a defined path so I didn't count it)
6) Most competitive professional school to get into by percentiles, gpa averages, and sheer # of people who start college as "pre-med" that eventually change majors.
7) Media portrayal of Doctors on TV are favorable: Sexy, Rich, Smart, Powerful, etc.
8) Many, Many TV dramas and soap operas involving Doctors (never any dentists)
9) Many work in high-rise fancy hospitals as opposed to strip mall spaces. (99% of dentists, optometrists, chiropractors, etc don't have hospital priveliges)
10) Public considers physicians as "Real Doctors" as opposed to PhDs, DDS, DMD, etc.

Does that help to explain the "nature of prestige" in medicine?
I'm willing to bet you already realized these several points but are trolling on this board to start a war.

 

[Eric Lindros]

I'll spell it out for the OP:

The nature of prestige in Medicine (off the top of my head)

1) Highest paid professionals out there on average
2) Undisputed leaders of healthcare
3) One of the oldest professions in history
4) Make decisions that affect quality of life AND life and death of humans
5) Longest schooling/training (phD and postdoc isnt really a defined path so I didn't count it)
6) Most competitive professional school to get into by percentiles, gpa averages, and sheer # of people who start college as "pre-med" that eventually change majors.
7) Media portrayal of Doctors on TV are favorable: Sexy, Rich, Smart, Powerful, etc.
8) Many, Many TV dramas and soap operas involving Doctors (never any dentists)
9) Many work in high-rise fancy hospitals as opposed to strip mall spaces. (99% of dentists, optometrists, chiropractors, etc don't have hospital priveliges)
10) Public considers physicians as "Real Doctors" as opposed to PhDs, DDS, DMD, etc.

Does that help to explain the "nature of prestige" in medicine?
I'm willing to bet you already realized these several points but are trolling on this board to start a war.

Exactly

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

OOOOH LA LA LE BARBIEZ

 

[pennybridge]

OOOOH LA LA LE BARBIEZ[/IMG]

that looks like my Foot Fetish Barbie....

edit// but with wings.

 

[YupGypsy]

Personal anecdotes are very useful for describing an entire profession. I know a neurosurgeon and a dentist who are next-door neighbors. The neurosurgeon's house is nicer, but still, they both have great places.

Your millionaire dentist with a new Porsche at age 30 is way beyond his eyeballs in debt, or his success is a result of preparation meeting nepotism.

Is he a general dentist? It wouldn't be fair to compare the top 0.05% of doctors to the lower 90% of dentists.

 

[pennybridge]

Is he a general dentist? It wouldn't be fair to compare the top 0.05% of doctors to the lower 90% of dentists.

likewise it wouldn't be fair to compare the top 0.05% of dentists with the top 20% of physicians. Medicine is in a completely different league at that level.

 

[MDizzy]

likewise it wouldn't be fair to compare the top 0.05% of dentists with the top 20% of physicians. Medicine is in a completely different league at that level.

agreed. Everytime I hear pre-dents or dents brag about "making more than doctors" I have to chuckle. Some people just. dont. know. But it's a win-win situation to keep them in the dark; The dents feel better about themselves and the MD's protect their livelihood.

 

[pennybridge]

The dents feel better about themselves

which is important when they realize they scrape crap off of teeth for a living.

 

[Doctor~Detroit]

the prestige was absolutely terrible.....
The Illusionist blew it away!

agreed.

 

[YupGypsy]

agreed. Everytime I hear pre-dents or dents brag about "making more than doctors" I have to chuckle. Some people just. dont. know. But it's a win-win situation to keep them in the dark; The dents feel better about themselves and the MD's protect their livelihood.

you don't have a clue, do you

 

[pennybridge]

you don't have a clue, do you

it's a sweet game. The movie was damned decent, but the game you can play over and over and it's still fun!

 

[bsmcga0]

which is important when they realize they scrape crap off of teeth for a living.

you don't know much about dentistry, this is similar to saying a general physician just gives vaccine shots designed by PhDs. the hygienists scraps calculus of teeth, which is a fairly complex bacterial complex
medicine is obviously a great field, but from someone that selected his dental acceptance over medical, dentistry is great also. half of the people in my class have a physician as a parent, lucky them, my parents don't help me out at all

 

[happy snake]

which is important when they realize they scrape crap off of teeth for a living.

I'll choose scraping calculus off yellow teeth any day over being a Proctologist or even a Colorectal Surgeon. Forget proctology, I shadowed an ER doc once and I saw a 60 year-old homeless man being disimpacted. Can you imagine what rectal bacteria can achieve on 5 days of backed-up material?? Trust me, it's worse than the worst mouth a dentist will have worked on. Ever.

Niether profession's necessarily better than the other. It just depends on why you choose either. You will always get smelly ones (feet in podiatry, mouths in dentistry, armpits in dermatology (happened in a clinic I worked in)).

Hopefully, there's more to your choice than just the prestige.

 

[BloodySurgeon]

At least we can both agree, dentist and doctors, are both better than an optometrist or chiropractor!

 

[Eric Lindros]

I'll choose scraping calculus off yellow teeth any day over being a Proctologist or even a Colorectal Surgeon. Forget proctology, I shadowed an ER doc once and I saw a 60 year-old homeless man being disimpacted. Can you imagine what rectal bacteria can achieve on 5 days of backed-up material?? Trust me, it's worse than the worst mouth a dentist will have worked on. Ever.

Aside from bringing up the classic proctologist argument, I'm not sure why you would bring EP into this argument. Being an Emergency Physician is absolutely worlds away from being a dentist. Dentists do, in fact, work in offices performing typically minor procedures on teeth -all the time. I say minor because I consider any procedure on teeth, inlcuding oral surgery, relatively minor. Emergency medicine offers just about anything you can think of. EPs see everything and anything. Dentists see teeth and mouths. It's a ridiculous comparison.

 

[Tartheheel]

*sigh...

I wonder if this debate will EVER! be completely resolved...

 

[transmetropol]

agreed. Everytime I hear pre-dents or dents brag about "making more than doctors" I have to chuckle. Some people just. dont. know. But it's a win-win situation to keep them in the dark; The dents feel better about themselves and the MD's protect their livelihood.

In comparison to other, non-medical professions requiring less cash, less training, and less work overall the opportunity costs of an MD (or even in some cases a PhD) are somewhat high compared to other professions (Im thinking MBAs and JDs). Everyone getting an MD will be comfortable, but unless they have a trust fund or a winning lottery ticket MDs usually dont become multimillionaires on salary alone. We leave that to the CEO of Goldman

I never thought about prestige, or being a "real doctor" when I decided to do med school. In my opinion, there are more cost-effective and easier ways to be thought of as cool in this world. Im obviously too stupid to be concerned about money, because if I was I wouldnt be entering this profession. Im also too naive to be interested in having conversations with my friends where I wow them with my MD-jargon and my private practice on Park Ave. [This is not to imply that having a practice in that part of Manhattan makes you an arrogant snob, only that Park Ave is nice.]

and BTW, MDizzy...the oldest profession in history is prositution. Being oldest isnt necessarily best. And furthermore, MD as we know it didnt appear in England until the 1600s as a gentleman's profession that you did for two reasons: 1) you werent lucky enough to be firstborn, and 2) you were too stupid or poor to be a lawyer or a clergyman.

 

[MDizzy]

In comparison to other, non-medical professions requiring less cash, less training, and less work overall the opportunity costs of an MD (or even in some cases a PhD) are somewhat high compared to other professions (Im thinking MBAs and JDs). Everyone getting an MD will be comfortable, but unless they have a trust fund or a winning lottery ticket MDs usually dont become multimillionaires on salary alone. We leave that to the CEO of Goldman

I never thought about prestige, or being a "real doctor" when I decided to do med school. In my opinion, there are more cost-effective and easier ways to be thought of as cool in this world. Im obviously too stupid to be concerned about money, because if I was I wouldnt be entering this profession. Im also too naive to be interested in having conversations with my friends where I wow them with my MD-jargon and my private practice on Park Ave. [This is not to imply that having a practice in that part of Manhattan makes you an arrogant snob, only that Park Ave is nice.]

and BTW, MDizzy...the oldest profession in history is prositution. Being oldest isnt necessarily best. And furthermore, MD as we know it didnt appear in England until the 1600s as a gentleman's profession that you did for two reasons: 1) you werent lucky enough to be firstborn, and 2) you were too stupid or poor to be a lawyer or a clergyman.

I'll enumerate my responses.

1) Like I said, Physicians are the highest paid professionals on average. Comparing a physician to the CEO of a wall street firm isn't exactly comparing apples to apples. That's like saying "Tiger Woods makes more than any doctor so doctors aren't that rich." Your statement about MBAs and JDs are better off financially than physicians is ridiculous and that topic has been discussed ad nauseum on these boards.

2) No one said anything about using MD-jargon to the lay public or being a braggart.

3) I didn't say physicians were THE oldest profession, but that it is on the the oldest professions. The prostitution example has been used ad nauseum also, and it's frankly a ridiculous comment. You can't argue that the "doctor" profession is not rooted in our everyday lives and has been one of the most important professions that has affected billions of people throughout history. I may be going out on a limb here, but people tend to want to live.

 

[pennybridge]

there are a few things wrong with this thread:

1) proctologists are colorectal surgeons, they changed the name.

2) working with poop is like less than 1% of a colorectal surgeon's career, let alone an ER doc, maybe like 0.1% (and that includes simply smelling the poo coming from somewhere)

3) dentists don't perform life saving procedures. ever. at least not scheduled ones.

4) I'm not afraid of bacteria growing on old poop. i'm not afraid of bacteria growing on gnarly teeth. I'm afraid of cleaning teeth for the rest of my life and shooting myself in the eye because I can't take the banality.

5) prostitution is a very valid AND important profession. I mean, how else are dentists going to get any tail?


cliff's notes: the mere thought of being a dentist is terrifying.

 

[degoo_]

It seems the prestige associated with being a doctor also extends to, or is related to, the institution where the doctor did his/her MD. This doesn't seem to exist with dentistry, or does it?

 

[Law2Doc]

It seems the prestige associated with being a doctor also extends to, or is related to, the institution where the doctor did his/her MD.

Actually, in medicine you tend to be as good as the last place you've been. Your residency will follow you further than your med school, unless you do a fellowship, and so on. You will be that dude who "trained at" XYZ, your med school will no longer usually get mentioned.

 

[Law2Doc]

there are a few things wrong with this thread:

1) proctologists are colorectal surgeons, they changed the name.

"A rose is a rose is a rose"...

 

[MDizzy]

there are a few things wrong with this thread:

1) proctologists are colorectal surgeons, they changed the name.

2) working with poop is like less than 1% of a colorectal surgeon's career, let alone an ER doc, maybe like 0.1% (and that includes simply smelling the poo coming from somewhere)

3) dentists don't perform life saving procedures. ever. at least not scheduled ones.

4) I'm not afraid of bacteria growing on old poop. i'm not afraid of bacteria growing on gnarly teeth. I'm afraid of cleaning teeth for the rest of my life and shooting myself in the eye because I can't take the banality.

5) prostitution is a very valid AND important profession. I mean, how else are dentists going to get any tail?


cliff's notes: the mere thought of being a dentist is terrifying.

Exactly.

A proctologist is only one specialty of medicine, and not a very popular one at that. If a physician doesn't want to insert their fingers into someone's anus, they can choose not to. 99% of dentists out there have no choice but to work inside mouths.

 

[unsung]

I would say being a nuclear physicist is likely more "prestigious" than being a M.D.

How many people could HANDLE (i.e. have the ability) being a physicist? How many people graduate with Ph.D.s in physics each year? (Physics is just a somewhat arbitrary example. Insert your favorite academic discipline. Let's say... Egyptology.)

How many students graduate from medical school each year? What % of pre-med applicants get into A medical school each year? (1 in 3!)

Case in point: academia is FAR more "prestigious" than medical school. For the first two years of medical school, a lot of med students don't even bother attending the courses, and simply sit home and read the textbook. Try doing that through the 1st two years of a PhD program in mathematics. Or law school for that matter! It's no secret that law school courses often provide far more value for the law school student, in that the classroom interactions between professor and student is often a lot more involved. That is, the law school student is honing his/her reasoning ability in class in a way that goes beyond the facts in their assigned texts. Medical school is more about memorization.

I'm a pre-med... but I really don't think medicine is THAT prestigious really. To the average joe, sure, being a doctor sounds like a great thing. But ask practically ANYONE, and s/he will likely know a relative or a friend or a friend's relative (etc.) who is a doctor.

Things that are COMMON simply can't be THAT prestigious. Otoh, try telling people "I'm a nuclear physicist and I work for NASA"... not the same ballpark, guys.

In short, this whole discussion about going into medicine for the "prestige" is terribly short-sighted.

 

[LIDO]

Wow.....all of you seem totally crazy.

I can say a few things and maybe I will sound crazy too.

I am at the point of deciding to go into either dentistry or medicine. I apply within months. My gpa is a 3.94 overall and 3.96 science. I am not concerned about the level of intelligence required in either field. You will always have a**hole stupid md's and you will always have a**hole stupid dentist.

After shadowing for roughly 500 hours and being with a family that has roughly 10 mds and 4 dentist I can relay a few opinions.

Overall, most everybody has mentioned that they would most likely not do medicine if they knew what it was truly was like. Most agree that they would have given dentistry a good look.

Not to say that the doctors are not happy. Prob. 1 out of 5 doctors enjoys the career.....but still stated to me that they would have looked into other fields. This is difficult for you all to swallow and comprehend. None of us (most of us) have not practiced as MD's or DDS's.

I can say that almost every dentist has been very happy with the career. Enjoys the surplus free time to gain relief and extend into other passions.

Money wise......I firmly think dentistry is a better choice if that is your objective. Despite the fact that most will not admit such. Realize that when you guys look at "nation average" salary reports that these reports do not include the majority of private practice dentistry salary. These people (privately owned) do not need to report the income / it is not regulated the same way as medicine.

My good friends sister and brother-in-law both graduated d-school two years ago. They have a brand new office, a reasonably new car, just bought a house in one of the best areas and had a baby four months ago. They each work about 35ish hours a week. They have nice things, take trips, and most important they are able to spend time with their baby.

Prestige....hmmm.....people need to get off the high horse. For instance, an above post noted how EP doc's save lives and will deal with smelly anus about .1 percent of the time. Have you shadowed for over 100 hours or now an EP? Most of my shadowing in the ER dealt with drunk men, smelly bums, strange fungus type rashes and such. You will deal with plenty of sh*tty things.

Yesterday my friends sister had a woman finish her dental work in her office. She was told by a co-worker that her breath was bad and her teeth rotten. The lady had every tooth extracted and replaced. Yesterday she finished the work, looked into a mirror and began crying. She continued by hugging the dentist. So dentistry is more than scraping teeth. It is restoring a part of a person life.

Also, to the a**whipe above who insulted oral surgeons by saying they rarely encounter meaningful work. How about the oral surgeon that helps give a patient suffering from oral cancer a FACE? The boy who lost his jaw when after being in a car accident his face splattered against the window and then the oral surgeon who helped reconstruct that face?

Of course I think medicine is amazing. You can do amazing things with medicine but you can also do amazing things in dentistry, just in a different fashion.

So before you sh*it on dentistry think it over....for a second. Dentist have options. They can do general works and constantly educate themselves evolving their office. They finish school early and can enjoy their life/family while brightening others. Medicine is a field in which you must give your entire being. Realize you will be spat on as a resident. You will be treated like slave labor for the most of your life. Right now all is fine and dandy. You are young and ambitious; but when you are 45, missed your childs life, working 60 hours, on the verge of a heart attack......I doubt you will degrade dentistry. They will be working 35 hours, enjoying the family they have built, living out other passions and not doubting life.

I by no means wrote this to persuade a single person. If you truly are passionate for medicine and you are willing to give your life.....then this is all meaningless and it should be. Yet I am inclined to believe after reading hundreds of pre-allo threads that this is the majority of you. For this bulk of the population I urge that you re-evaluate and learn to appreciate other fields that may not only satisfy your thirst of knowledge but also give you freedom to grow into the other passions of life.


With this ....... stop making pre-anythings look like crap.

 

[cyrille104]

6) Most competitive professional school to get into by percentiles, gpa averages, and sheer # of people who start college as "pre-med" that eventually change majors.

Sorry, #6 goes to veterinary medicine