The NYC programs

[Reesh]

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Sorry guys I realize this topic has been discussed before, but I guess my post boils down to "How important is it to go to a big name institution if you want to practice outside of that region?"

Hey guys, great website.
So I'm really interested in the big four programs in Manhattan: Cornell, Columbia, NYU, Mount Sinai. I really liked all of them and think that I will be happy training at any of these institutions, so as a result I'm having a very hard time trying to rank them. I plan on doing second looks at these departments to help me decide as well.

I'm actually leaning towards NYU and Mount Sinai as my top choices, but one of my concerns is that I'm not sure if these schools carry enough name recognition outside of NY and the north east. I don't know where I will end up practicing in the future but if I want to practice in someplace like Arizona will I be penalized because I went to a program like Mount Sinai over Cornell, or I'm just getting paranoid about this?

Also if you guys have thoughts on these four programs I would love to hear them!

 

[powermd]

Reesh, I know you PM'd me, but I'll answer you here- The top programs in NYC are Columbia, Cornell, Sinai, and NYU, roughly in that order. Columbia is definitely the most complete, and certainly has the most impressive research program. It is well known throughout the country, so getting a great job or fellowship won't be a problem anywhere. Cornell is similar, but has some deficiencies in the case mix (see other posts for that info). The atmosphere seems great at Cornell, and the location and hospital are stellar- either would make a great first choice. Sinai is also a good choice, and I like the integration of simulator workshops into basic anesthesia training, but Sinai's rep is much more localally oriented that Columbia/Cornell. NYU is an up and coming program. I was impressed by the leadership, but not so much by the faculty attendings at NYU. The atmosphere at Tisch Hospital just sucks, it's kind of depressing. Bellevue is what it is, and you either like it or you don't. NYU has the team captain experience, which is great- but so does Columbia. You can't go wrong with any of these programs, but I would not put NYU in your top 3. They didn't fill last year for a reason. Of course, neither did Cornell, but that's because they got arrogant by avoiding ranking applicants from non-Ivy league medical schools. An internal email (posted by me somewhere in this forum) was accidentally sent out to all applicants after the match by their seemingly wonderful-guy PD attesting to this fact.

 

[Reesh]

Hey thanks for the post Powermd. I appreciate your comments. I was wondering if you could comment on LIJ's prelim year and/or LIJ vs North Shore Hospital? Thanks again for your input.

 

[chillindrdude]

hmm...you seem alittle biased...being that you are going to columbia. i'll be the counterpoint to your Pro-Columbia-ness

i found columbia and cornell to be very similar clinically. cornell's got their burns and columbia their peds. i think cornell's regional experience is alittle better. people wise, i found 'columbi-ans' to have big heads...you got alotta ego there. maybe less so at cornell.

NYU is a diamond in the rough. people there are awesome...a bunch of the attendings there are awesome. the chair is very friendly and easy to talk to. he's really turned around the research opportunities there. regional is fairly strong as you do your block months at Joint Disease. Bellevue is a city hospital, run down, but as a CA-3 you are basically a junior attending on call, YOU call the shots at night, assigning and managing the ORs. i think that this experience is unmatched anywhere in manhattan.
i think the mix of patients is excellent, you got your upper-end privates, middle-tier medicare, and your no-insurance folks. you'll get none of the latter at columbia or cornell.

i've got nothing on sinai, as i didn't interview there...

 

[Worldtraveler]

I'm not from NYC , but I"m looking forward to a real city when I start my CA-1 at NYU in July 2005. I interviewed at a few programs in NYC and I was impressed with all of the top 4 programs there. Choose the program where you feel the most comfortable as all these programs have good name recognition outside of NY.
Good luck.

 

[joshmir]

my 2 cents on nyu

talked to a resident who loves nyc and gas but hates nyu gas...said it boils down to people being mean, and the feeling she was getting used...a male resident felt the same way...

on the othwer hand, i met a weak 9in terms of numbers) fmg who felt so lucky to "be living in nyc and doing gas", maybe b/c he felt it was very difficult for him to get those two things and now is very appreciative

once you get into residency, you find that the more money a program has, and the less spread thin it is, the better your experience as a resident.

i'll be heading to a gas program in boston, but i believe the housing at cornell makes it head and shoulders above anything else. also, st lukes gives a decent housing deal, and has good regional and no transplants.

hmm...you seem alittle biased...being that you are going to columbia. i'll be the counterpoint to your Pro-Columbia-ness

i found columbia and cornell to be very similar clinically. cornell's got their burns and columbia their peds. i think cornell's regional experience is alittle better. people wise, i found 'columbi-ans' to have big heads...you got alotta ego there. maybe less so at cornell.

NYU is a diamond in the rough. people there are awesome...a bunch of the attendings there are awesome. the chair is very friendly and easy to talk to. he's really turned around the research opportunities there. regional is fairly strong as you do your block months at Joint Disease. Bellevue is a city hospital, run down, but as a CA-3 you are basically a junior attending on call, YOU call the shots at night, assigning and managing the ORs. i think that this experience is unmatched anywhere in manhattan.
i think the mix of patients is excellent, you got your upper-end privates, middle-tier medicare, and your no-insurance folks. you'll get none of the latter at columbia or cornell.

i've got nothing on sinai, as i didn't interview there...

 

[el guapo]

To 2nd the above post, I have heard from more than one attending that the regional experience at Cornell sets it above the others in Manhattan.

 

[Worldtraveler]

When I interviewed at NYU, the majority of residents I spoke with had good things to say about the program, but there was one resident who was unimpressed. Overall I came away with a postive "feeling" and I'm going to do everything in power to make sure that the next few years at NYU are going to be great!

 

[recall]

I would ask the programs where their alums have gone and you
would discover whether there is a local or national influence.
PM me for more specific details.

PowerMD, I quote your rank list from last year. While time certainly
changes opinions, wouldn't it be more helpful for this year's applicants
to know your reasoning at rank list time?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Final list--

Sinai
Cornell
Columbia
BWH
BID
NYU
SLR
BU
Tufts-NEMC
StV

Glad this is over!

 

[sara_surgery]

Nice recall! Call him out!! If Columbia is the "top" program in the city, then why was it 3rd on his list? Funny how whatever program you end up at suddenly becomes the "best" program, even if you didn't think that way when you submit your rank list... Response PowerMD?

I would ask the programs where their alums have gone and you
would discover whether there is a local or national influence.
PM me for more specific details.

PowerMD, I quote your rank list from last year. While time certainly
changes opinions, wouldn't it be more helpful for this year's applicants
to know your reasoning at rank list time?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Final list--

Sinai
Cornell
Columbia
BWH
BID
NYU
SLR
BU
Tufts-NEMC
StV

Glad this is over!

 

[Kwijibo]

I second PowerMD's rankings. However, I too am a 'big headed' Columbia resident. I am posting this message because many points were brought up in this thread that I wanted to address.
1.To begin with to respond to the initial comment "How important is it to go to a big name institution if you want to practice outside of that region?",the answer is... It is important. If you want a fellowship this cannot be challenged. If you are going into private practice, it doesn't matter as much when you are talking about top notch programs like the 4 mentioned, but still does matter.
2. Cornell does have great regional. So does St. Luke's.
3. As far as NYU being a diamond in the rough, I must say they are really turning that program around, but overall , the hospital system itself has not changed- and because of that many people there are not happy. I'm talking about a malignant working atmosphere. You do have trauma though, which can be good or bad I guess.
4. If you want a 'cush' program- as far as I've heard Mt. Siani takes the cake there. A very well run program in general.
5. Neighborhood wise- NYU, then a tie Cornell/Mt.Siani, and distant last Columbia.
6. Perks- Columbia/Mt.Siani tie. Both excellent moonlighting opportunities. Siani's better than ours. We make 350$ for 4 hours during the week but only 750 for a 24 hour saturday and 600 for a 12 hour sunday, but we also get an expense paid conference every year.

The bottom line is you can rank the programs on whatever basis you choose. In the end it doesn't make that much of a difference if you have in you what it takes to succeed.

 

[powermd]

Nice recall! Call him out!! If Columbia is the "top" program in the city, then why was it 3rd on his list? Funny how whatever program you end up at suddenly becomes the "best" program, even if you didn't think that way when you submit your rank list... Response PowerMD?

The short answer is that my priorities shifted after the match. The "best" program for anyone depends on their priorities.

At the time I submitted this list, my top priority was going somewhere cushy with a nice lifestyle in a good location. I would still maintain that Sinai and Cornell fit this description better than Columbia. My reservations had mainly to do with reputation and job prospects, and to a lesser extent, training. Clearly Columbia was best in these resepcts. The training is close enough among these three programs that it wasn't a major factor in my ranking decision, however I felt (a little) bad for not ranking Columbia #1. After matching Columbia I warmed up to the idea of tolerating the location and colder attitudes there given the benefits of great training and reputation. To use an analogy, if this were a meal and I ordered ice cream and cake, but instead got broccoli, I might initially be disappointed, but not for long, because clearly the broccoli was better for me to begin with. I matched broccoli. Broccoli is best. Some people will still prefer ice cream though.

If I had it to do over again, I would certainly rank Columbia #1, Cornell #2, and Sinai #3. My favorite program overall was BWH, but I wanted to be in NYC, so I had to rank the NYC programs first.

 

[palabra]

I'm not sure if I buy the comparing vegetables to ice cream argument but I do agree that you couldn't lose being at any of those programs. I was very impressed by all three.

One question: You mentioned the colder attitudes at Columbia as compared to the other programs: do you mean that they are disinterested in you personally or are they just not as exciting personalities?

It would be difficult to beat Dr. Levine at Mt. Sinai and Dr. Swamidoss at Cornell wherever you go. They were both very cool and seemed like a lot of fun as well as really looking out for the best interest of the residents.

 

[NYCAnesthesia]

"2. Cornell does have great regional. So does St. Luke's."

We have Hospital for Special Surgery, a top orthopedic hospital in which cases are almost exclusively done with regional anesthetics, with enough volume to train all our residents, support 6 fellows, residents from Hopkins, with plenty more cases that don't have enough coverage. This is a big difference from St. Lukes, which counts epidurals in their numbers. The only other program with this kind of volume is Virginia Mason (by rumor)

"6. Perks- Columbia/Mt.Siani tie. Both excellent moonlighting opportunities. Siani's better than ours. We make 350$ for 4 hours during the week but only 750 for a 24 hour saturday and 600 for a 12 hour sunday, but we also get an expense paid conference every year."

Don't forget the housing. In NYC, that is by FAR the biggest perk. All that extra moonlighting can be used to pay for housing that Cornell provides, for less than half of market prices, in nice highrise doorman buildings right across the street from all 3 hospitals that we cover. There is OB moonlighting available at Cornell too.

Columbia does heart, livers, and lung transplants, which Cornell does not do.

Columbia and Cornell both do not have much trauma. Cornell has a large burn center. NYU has trauma galore.

Columbia has an excellent new stand alone peds hospital that Cornell rotates through 3 weeks as a CA-2. Pediatric heart, neuro cases are done at Cornell, although at obviously smaller volumes.

The clinical training across the 4 large NYC programs: Columbia, Cornell, Sinai, NYU, are similarily excellent. We all work hard, will come out as excellent anesthesiologists, with little difficulty finding jobs or fellowships out of residency.

I second PowerMD's rankings. However, I too am a 'big headed' Columbia resident. I am posting this message because many points were brought up in this thread that I wanted to address.
1.To begin with to respond to the initial comment "How important is it to go to a big name institution if you want to practice outside of that region?",the answer is... It is important. If you want a fellowship this cannot be challenged. If you are going into private practice, it doesn't matter as much when you are talking about top notch programs like the 4 mentioned, but still does matter.
2. Cornell does have great regional. So does St. Luke's.
3. As far as NYU being a diamond in the rough, I must say they are really turning that program around, but overall , the hospital system itself has not changed- and because of that many people there are not happy. I'm talking about a malignant working atmosphere. You do have trauma though, which can be good or bad I guess.
4. If you want a 'cush' program- as far as I've heard Mt. Siani takes the cake there. A very well run program in general.
5. Neighborhood wise- NYU, then a tie Cornell/Mt.Siani, and distant last Columbia.
6. Perks- Columbia/Mt.Siani tie. Both excellent moonlighting opportunities. Siani's better than ours. We make 350$ for 4 hours during the week but only 750 for a 24 hour saturday and 600 for a 12 hour sunday, but we also get an expense paid conference every year.

The bottom line is you can rank the programs on whatever basis you choose. In the end it doesn't make that much of a difference if you have in you what it takes to succeed.

 

[powermd]

I'm not sure if I buy the comparing vegetables to ice cream argument but I do agree that you couldn't lose being at any of those programs. I was very impressed by all three.

One question: You mentioned the colder attitudes at Columbia as compared to the other programs: do you mean that they are disinterested in you personally or are they just not as exciting personalities?

It would be difficult to beat Dr. Levine at Mt. Sinai and Dr. Swamidoss at Cornell wherever you go. They were both very cool and seemed like a lot of fun as well as really looking out for the best interest of the residents.

Since I'm headed to Columbia in July, I'm not going to get too detailed about what I mean when I say "colder attitudes", but this an observation from my interview experience overall. I frequently hear Columbia compared to MGH, and Cornell compared to BWH in terms of common attitudes. Interestingly, at my Cornell interview, Dr. Wilson commented that I "seemed like a Brigham kind of guy." Of course, he trained at MGH. I failed to match at Cornell.

I would agree it would be hard to find program directors more "warm 'n fuzzy" than Levine or Swamidoss.

 

[Kwijibo]

because some of the facts you bring up aren't quite right.
Cornell second years do 1 month at Columbia during their CA-2 in pediatrics at CHONY. Pediatrics experience is a vital part to being a well trained anesthesiologist. If anything peds hearts are less useful because you will not be doing them as an attending because any program will want a fellowship trained anesthesiologist to be doing their ped's heart cases. Kids, infants, and neonates are VERY different than adults and haing the opportuninty to do as much as you can during your training is vitally important.
Secondly, you can take your housing that is 4 avenues from any train station because they use your housing as an excuse not to give you any call rooms. How does that translate? That means 1 overnight call person. That means you come in the next day when you are on call except when you get overnight call as a CA-3. And why don't you tell people about your OB moonlighting opps?
Columbia is also top 5 in heart, liver, and lung transplants, adults and peds in the country as far as volume. Don't get me wrong though, there are plenty of times you are a CA-2 on call and you are hoping that a liver does not come in...
And no one can mess with Virginia Mason as far as regional is concerned.

 

[bignursemd]

because some of the facts you bring up aren't quite right.
Cornell second years do 1 month at Columbia during their CA-2 in pediatrics at CHONY. Pediatrics experience is a vital part to being a well trained anesthesiologist. If anything peds hearts are less useful because you will not be doing them as an attending because any program will want a fellowship trained anesthesiologist to be doing their ped's heart cases. Kids, infants, and neonates are VERY different than adults and haing the opportuninty to do as much as you can during your training is vitally important.
Secondly, you can take your housing that is 4 avenues from any train station because they use your housing as an excuse not to give you any call rooms. How does that translate? That means 1 overnight call person. That means you come in the next day when you are on call except when you get overnight call as a CA-3. And why don't you tell people about your OB moonlighting opps?
Columbia is also top 5 in heart, liver, and lung transplants, adults and peds in the country as far as volume. Don't get me wrong though, there are plenty of times you are a CA-2 on call and you are hoping that a liver does not come in...
And no one can mess with Virginia Mason as far as regional is concerned.

I’m sorry, but this is pathetic. The last few posts have bee basically bantering back and forth about who’s “blade” is bigger. Ultimately, each program is uniquely different and will have a different appeal for each resident, and this bantering back and forth about “my program is better at X, Y, or Z” is utterly useless. I assume we’ve all gotten to this point because we enjoy Anesthesiology for what it is. Honestly, if you end up at Columbia, Cornell, Siani, or the University of Guam!!, there are going to be positives and negatives.
Peace-

 

[C-D8]

because some of the facts you bring up aren't quite right.
Cornell second years do 1 month at Columbia during their CA-2 in pediatrics at CHONY. Pediatrics experience is a vital part to being a well trained anesthesiologist. If anything peds hearts are less useful because you will not be doing them as an attending because any program will want a fellowship trained anesthesiologist to be doing their ped's heart cases. Kids, infants, and neonates are VERY different than adults and haing the opportuninty to do as much as you can during your training is vitally important.
Secondly, you can take your housing that is 4 avenues from any train station because they use your housing as an excuse not to give you any call rooms. How does that translate? That means 1 overnight call person. That means you come in the next day when you are on call except when you get overnight call as a CA-3. And why don't you tell people about your OB moonlighting opps?
Columbia is also top 5 in heart, liver, and lung transplants, adults and peds in the country as far as volume. Don't get me wrong though, there are plenty of times you are a CA-2 on call and you are hoping that a liver does not come in...
And no one can mess with Virginia Mason as far as regional is concerned.

I don't know where you get the idea that only Columbia and Cornell are nationally known. I'm from the west coast and was told by our PD that Sinai was the best overall program in the city and based on 2 four week electives and the interviews I have to agree. They have fantastic regional experience , which I experienced first hand. several CA-1 residents told me that they did around 100 nerve blocks during their one month ortho rotation alone, including interscalene infra and superclavicular blocks, femoral and popliteal not to mention axillary and ankle. They also do blocks for neuro, vascular and ENT as well. By the time they finish the residents get aroung 200 blocks. They also have excellent peds. There was always a lot of pediatric cases including ENT rooms with 12 ped cases, an endocopy area with 8 pedi cases, general rooms, gu and ortho, I saw a one year old for a thoracotomy. Most diverse transplant program in the city, they transplant everything, a trauma rotation, an office-based elective, nothing is missing clinically. Dr. Reich, their new chairman was their director of cardiac. He is the coeditor of Kaplan's Cardiac Anesthesia and the residents love him. Many CA-2 are already saying they are staying to do a caardiac fellowship. Many other authors in the deparment including Eisenkraft and Cohen. They also have an awesome simulator center which is second to none. We got to use it as students and the residents get a tremendous amount of simulator training. The clinical equipment is also unbelievable, self checking anesthesia machines and computer record keeping in all the rooms. They also have the most comprehensive didactic program of all "big four". Their PD, Dr. Levine, who has been talked about on this site already, really is amazing in everyway. I was lucky enough to work with Adam in the simulator and the OR. Nonstop teaching. It is obvious why the residents are thrilled with the program. This place Rocks!!! It is also obvious why PowerMD ranked them number one. From all the residents I have met at the interviews and the electives, not one of Sinai's residents wanted to go elsewhere, yet I did meet residents at the other big three who did want to go to Sinai.

 

[powermd]

What exactly is the call schedule like at Sinai? I'm not sure if I ever got a straight answer about that.

 

[C-D8]

What exactly is the call schedule like at Sinai? I'm not sure if I ever got a straight answer about that.

During the elective I was able to talk with a lot of Sinia residents. They love the flexibility of the call system. I guess all of the call options does make it confusing. I hope this reflects it accurately.

CA-1s take 24 hour call 4-5 calls per month on average. no call in July.

CA-2 and 3 have a precall late night until 7-9 pm then go home and don't return to take overnight call until 4pm the following afternoon. Then they go home at 7:15 am the next morning. Interestingly their attendings have the same system, so I would imagine it is good.

CA-2 have on average 4 precall/overnight calls per month
CA-3 have on average 3 precall/overnight calls per month

They also have a long call that stays the latest around 10pm then goes home and has the next day completely off. Most of the residents consider this call as a bonus. Most senior residents get one of these a month.

They also have voluntary call for pay.
Shortcall at Sinai for 300$/evening
weekend call at Elmhurst 1400$/24 hours

The senior residents get simulator and oral board prep in the afternoons before they take call.

Senior residents can elect to do 24 hour call if they prefer over the precall on call system.All the residents I met love not working 24 hour shifts.

 

[somedude]

During the week there is a CA-3 "team leader" who runs the show. In addition there is a call team of 5 residents. 3 of them automatically get the next day off. The other 2 are guaranteed 10 hours between shifts (ie come in later in AM if work late in PM) There is also a team of 5 residents on short call (relief team). The folks relieve the non-call residents at 5pm and stay until their rooms are done unless relieved by the call team. Anyone who works past midnight automatically gets the next day off. In other words the best time to finish a room when on call is 12:01 AM. CTICU, Ob, and PACU/code call are the only in house calls. There aren't any other call rooms in the hospital and therefore all other call is from home. Personally I prefer to sleep in my own bed rather than in the hospital when on call.
On weekends there are 3 residents on general OR call and 1 resident on cardiac call. All are from home.
In general call averages to one short call and one overnight call a week, or 3-4 overnight calls a month. CA-1's don't have overnight call until later in the year (February/March.) They do, however, start taking short call around September. Ob call is Q4, cardiac is Q4-5, CTICU is Q3. PACU/code call is assigned to a CA-2 in the general OR call pool, usually once or twice every 3 weeks and counts toward the overall call numbers.
There are rumors circulating about the housing rates going up. Yes, this is in fact true. My rent went up a whopping $23 last year. 🙂 Seriously though, as confirmed by the office of Dr. Pardes (man in charge of the hospital) there are absolutely no plans to bring up rents to market value. Also, if the rents were at market value, then residents would be allowed to live anywhere. That means the hospital would have to create call rooms, which they don't have now, and have no space for.
Cornell does not have a perdiatric hospital. That means we do not get to do a large volume of complicated cases. We do more than necessary (by ABA standards) of general peds. There is one perk to not having a separate peds hospital. On any given day you have the opportunity to do a peds case if it's scheduled for your room. At other programs you only get to do peds on peds rotations at the pediatric hospitals.
The Cornell Anesthesiology website has a lot more info on the program such as recent placements, benefits, and rotations. You can always PM me with specifics.
I tried to provide some info on Cornell without offending anyone from other programs. I apologize if I in fact did offend someone.

 

[rhinosp_33]

As someone participating in the match this year, this is great info.

The sinai call schedule doesnt sound too bad at all. The moonlight at elmhurst sure would help cost of living in nyc.

In terms of my impressions during interviews:

NYU: I know they didnt fill last year, but I dont think that is reflective of the quality of the program. I was surprising very impressed with it. The residents seemed great and friendly, didnt seem overworked or disgruntled to me. Also, we were put in an OR room for about 30 minutes and I thought this was a good experience. During lunch, several attendings just came by to chat and it seemed like they didnt have anything to hide. The regional and trauma training are two particular strong points. The peds isnt as great as columbia, however, NYU has one of the best plastics departments and I was told by residents that you do several pediatric facial plastics, etc so you will be confident. Location wise, this is the best of the 4. Also, Chairman, Dr. Blanck is probably one of the nicest and sincere guys I've meet in the trail so far. He is well known, well respected, and has a good vision of where to take this program. Being from the midwest, I would say NYU has national reputation "namesake" equal to Cornell-Columbia and better than Sinai.

Sinai: I really liked this program also. Even though there has been some questions of the financial status of this hospital, the department itself is loaded and in no hurt at all. They have all the toys you would ever want -- and although some may undervalue this, I think it is important to be familiar with all the latest technology that you may see later on, esp in private practice. As mentioned, they have unique training opportunities such as the ENT rotaiton and the private pratice ambulatory rotations. Dr. Levine is fantastic. Residents seem to get along. Great program. The only qualm I have is the fact that a significant minoirty of your patients will be privates and may not want you (resident) to be working on them. This complaint was described to me by more than 1 resident there.

Cornell: well described by previous posters already -- espeically since a few of them are current residents. The only thing I'd mention is that the housing subsidy can be a pro or con. You still end up paying 1100-1300 for a 1bdrm, and sure this is a great deal for lower east side. But you can find studios/1bdrm in that price range in other parts of city. Furthermore, I have friends living in Chelesea luxury high rise apartment with doorman/gym/pool and they pay $4k for a 4 bedroom, so that is about $1k/person. Sure you would have 3 roomates, but the place is really nice and if you dont mind having roomates I think you can still find some decent housing deals if you dont end up at Cornell. Also NYU aside, the other 2 have pretty good moonlight opportunites whereas Cornell doesnt. I think the regional experience at Cornell is the one thing that wins hands down against the training of the other programs. However, overall I didnt get a great feel of this place. Seemed very private.

Columbia: The best academic reputation. Most impressive faculty members. Somewhat concerned by the large class size though. If someone can detail the call schedule here that would be great. Location is not fun area. Peds and research are also two huge strengths. I think this would be the program to go to if you want to jumpstart an academic career.

Just some of my thoughts.

 

[jetmetnet]

In the interview trail , I heard a rumor that Savarese was on his way out. Is this true???

 

[jetmetnet]

I don't know where you get the idea that only Columbia and Cornell are nationally known. I'm from the west coast and was told by our PD that Sinai was the best overall program in the city and based on 2 four week electives and the interviews I have to agree. They have fantastic regional experience , which I experienced first hand. several CA-1 residents told me that they did around 100 nerve blocks during their one month ortho rotation alone, including interscalene infra and superclavicular blocks, femoral and popliteal not to mention axillary and ankle. They also do blocks for neuro, vascular and ENT as well. By the time they finish the residents get aroung 200 blocks. They also have excellent peds. There was always a lot of pediatric cases including ENT rooms with 12 ped cases, an endocopy area with 8 pedi cases, general rooms, gu and ortho, I saw a one year old for a thoracotomy. Most diverse transplant program in the city, they transplant everything, a trauma rotation, an office-based elective, nothing is missing clinically. Dr. Reich, their new chairman was their director of cardiac. He is the coeditor of Kaplan's Cardiac Anesthesia and the residents love him. Many CA-2 are already saying they are staying to do a caardiac fellowship. Many other authors in the deparment including Eisenkraft and Cohen. They also have an awesome simulator center which is second to none. We got to use it as students and the residents get a tremendous amount of simulator training. The clinical equipment is also unbelievable, self checking anesthesia machines and computer record keeping in all the rooms. They also have the most comprehensive didactic program of all "big four". Their PD, Dr. Levine, who has been talked about on this site already, really is amazing in everyway. I was lucky enough to work with Adam in the simulator and the OR. Nonstop teaching. It is obvious why the residents are thrilled with the program. This place Rocks!!! It is also obvious why PowerMD ranked them number one. From all the residents I have met at the interviews and the electives, not one of Sinai's residents wanted to go elsewhere, yet I did meet residents at the other big three who did want to go to Sinai.

There is a big big difference between a great program with happy residents than a nationally known program. Mount Sinai might be great program, but it may not be as nationally known as the others, but I do agree with bignursemd that we are being petty and like powermd will be happy wherever we end up.

 

[Jeff05]

national reputation is only important to people like us - just entering the field, clueless about the realities of practice. the truth is, people that will be in charge of hiring you will be people with an intimate knowledge of the field -not fooled by the glitter of name programs. ye, columbia was fine, but if sinai was called columbia, i wouldn't have any trouble believing it.

gas is wide open right now. my friend, an IMG, finished up the hahnemann program (now drexel) - not that great of a place to be, reputation nonexistant.
that was done 3 year ago. now he's partner in a practice in suburbs 20 min from a phila. works about 60 hrs/wk - he brings home 450k with 6 wks vacation. he just got a job offer in suburban ohio - it would be about 80hrs/wk - some of that home call, but it was for 800k. he could work 40hr/wk and make 250, that's not bad.

so, go wherever. you'll find a great job afterwards without difficulty.

 

[bignursemd]

national reputation is only important to people like us - just entering the field, clueless about the realities of practice. the truth is, people that will be in charge of hiring you will be people with an intimate knowledge of the field -not fooled by the glitter of name programs. ye, columbia was fine, but if sinai was called columbia, i wouldn't have any trouble believing it.

gas is wide open right now. my friend, an IMG, finished up the hahnemann program (now drexel) - not that great of a place to be, reputation nonexistant.
that was done 3 year ago. now he's partner in a practice in suburbs 20 min from a phila. works about 60 hrs/wk - he brings home 450k with 6 wks vacation. he just got a job offer in suburban ohio - it would be about 80hrs/wk - some of that home call, but it was for 800k. he could work 40hr/wk and make 250, that's not bad.

so, go wherever. you'll find a great job afterwards without difficulty.

Amen! 😀

 

[Kwijibo]

Columbias call schedule depends on what rotation you are doing.
In the main OR's, you are on long call 2-3 times a month, short call 2-3 times a month. And that includes either one Friday or one Sunday a month (your only weekend). There are two first years on the long call team, one second and one third. Third year comes in at 4pm and gets out at7 am, 1st and 2nd years come in at 7am and get out at 7am. Many times during your first year you will be assigned a 'library day' when on call which means come in at 7am and be available if you are needed, otherwise chill out(you are obviously supposed to be studying). Sleep 50% of your calls as a first year all night, even more as a second year. Almost never be up for 24hrs straight. Second years get big cases at night, liver transplants, ruptured AAA's, trauma, etc. Third year carries the PACU, Pain, STAT intubation, and Ped's pagers. As a third year you are a team captain and start cases and finish cases with your on call team in the same capacity as an attending, with an attending present.
The short call system in numbered 1-5 with 5 being relieved first. Obviously when you are #1 short call it is the worst call you can have, usually getting out anywhere from 8-11. If you stay past 11 there is a great chance you will be sent home the next day, if not you do not have to start until 9-10 the next day. Past midnight definately the next day off. The call system works very well and is distributed very fairly by Dr. Silverstien.
In Peds, your call schedule depends on your experience/competency level. So if it is your first time through you will likely only have 2-3 short calls for the whole time you are there. When you come though again you will start taking overnight call, which is good because there aren't that many emergencies that come in overnight. This heirarchy is implemented because the cases that go long are usually heart cases, transplants, etc, and you need to be able to handle the peds pain pager at night. Again, Kids are very different than adults and your comfort level comes with experience.
Pain- you do 1 month mandatory of pain/ max 6 additional months. During pain, you only have one weekend call day if that(Fri/Sat/Sun). Otherwise you sign out the pager at 4pm to the team captain or when clinic ends-usu. 4:30ish.
OB- OB is q4, but there is also a night float person. There are 5 residents on OB and an OB fellow. The non float person sleeps most of the night with the night float person doing the work overnight. Fellow does not steal procedures. Many complicated procedures such as EXIT procedure, Maternal/fetal anomalies, etc.
ICU/CTICU- q4 during ICU. not a bad rotation.nurses are great and you can sleep a couple of hours on call. CT-ICU is tougher. q7. PA's take other calls as do surgical residents. Both are closed Anesthesia units. CTICU is tough because you are dealing with sick patients- LVAD's, heart/lung transplants, etc, and they can do crappy at night.
Overall, all the call schedules are well organized and very fair. In my time here, CTICU was probably the toughest followed by OB. Those were only two months of three years. The only other calls which aren't good is saturday, and frankly, because there are a lot of residents, you don't get that many- 5 a year maybe.
I am not trying to change anyone's mind as far as where they are going to rank anything, but knowledge is key, and this site is a good way to keep informed on things.
And, finally, people think Columbia people are 'snobs' or whatever is written on here, but the bottom line is the people there love it there and aren't afraid to express it. I mean, we had a chili and cornbread contest today and half the hospital showed up, who does that?

 

[gasgodess]

I love how you guys just talk about Cornell, Columbia, NYU and Mt. Sinai. We've all heard so much about these programs, but there are more than 4 programs in NYC. Does anyone have anything to say about the other programs in NYC ie.
-St. Luke's Roosevelt
-St. Vincent's
-SUNY Downstate
-Maimonides
-Einstein

It would be nice to have input about these other less talked about programs.

Thank you

 

[powermd]

I interviewed at SLR and StV's and was not too impressed. SLR just didn't seem very organized, although I liked their morning conference. StV's won't train you on complicated cases as well as the big 4. The residents at StV's seemed a little weak.

I wouldn't even bother looking at Maimonides if you are an AMG with at least average credentials.

I love how you guys just talk about Cornell, Columbia, NYU and Mt. Sinai. We've all heard so much about these programs, but there are more than 4 programs in NYC. Does anyone have anything to say about the other programs in NYC ie.
-St. Luke's Roosevelt
-St. Vincent's
-SUNY Downstate
-Maimonides
-Einstein

It would be nice to have input about these other less talked about programs.

Thank you

 

[gasgodess]

I interviewed at SLR and StV's and was not too impressed. SLR just didn't seem very organized, although I liked their morning conference. StV's won't train you on complicated cases as well as the big 4. The residents at StV's seemed a little weak.

I wouldn't even bother looking at Maimonides if you are an AMG with at least average credentials.

Well I agree with you on Maimonides. I didn't even bother to apply, but know a lot of people who did and wanted input about this as well as other programs in the city.

Although, I know there are a lot of powerhouse (academically that is) people on this site, not everyone will end up at any of the big four. Just thought it might be useful to talk about the other programs for those who are geographically limited to NYC.

Thank you for your input. It is much appreciated. I wish more people would respond.

 

[skywalker09]

Which of these is more prestigious and will take u further, st. vincents or st. lukes? Also, now that about 180 applicants are competiting for the same big 4 NYC programs, what do u think will be their final criteria. Will it come down to the step 1 scores, or will the interview, along with those who did a second look and perhaps have a professor call on their behalf, be the determining factor? What should i expect. I had a 207 part 1, published in
anesthesia/analgesia, have a strong letter from a big name, and he's making calls for me. Do i have a short at columbia/cornell...??