The ONE thing that sucks about the DO degree.

[Buster Douglas]

The crap that sometimes comes out of the mouths' of pre-meds, pre-dents, a few choice MDs and, my personal favorite, unemployed MDs' wives.

I'm certain there are others worthy of this distinction... but I can always count on this population to breed some of the biggests jask@sses at times. What baffles me is how limited some of the "brightest minds" can be when it comes to the DO degree. Even my NEJM-publishing, peds/GI, Hopkins grad of an uncle cannot fathom why on earth anyone in his family would want to be a DO, much less a rehab doc. My question to him is who would chose reading and writing journal articles on pediatric poop over ANYTHING? Anyway, this rant is not about my uncle, but about the one thing that irks me the most about being a part of the "DO revolution".

What's the cause of this rant? I was at this bar last night trying to make this pre-dent girl I know feel comfortable and welcome. Things were all fine and dandy until out of the blue she had to start cutting on "DO school". Not in a sarcastic poke fun way, but in the "only *******es go to DO school" way. Oh, the thoughts that were running through my mind... I love it.

To add some personality to this thread, I wanted to be a PT during high school. After some research I wanted to be a physiatrist. After some more reserach I wanted to be a DO. Why does this seem so incomprehensible to some of the "smartest" people I come across?

And the funny thing is, I can always count on the same people that gave me me flack before as a pre-med are always the first to feed me the "You know what? I know a DO who's a Beverly Hills plastic surgeon. And he's doing really well!!!" oh, and I can't forget my favorite, "Oh, you're gonna be a DO? That's OK. you can still be a primary care physician." I could make an entire thread of the idiotic misinformed things I've heard in only 2 years of med school. But I won't.

And to all the jack@sses who think they've accomplished something by getting into their state allopathic school...
Am I resentful? No. Am I annoyed with unwarranted snobbery? Yes.
I like being a DO student and 95% of what the DO degree stands for, but it's hard to get over the crap you run into, esp when you're just trying to enjoy your 12oz bottle of Miller Lite.

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[RDickerson]

I think that agreeing with the DO philosophy pretty much comes with the fact that it shouldn't bother you any more. Hell, I'm not only becoming a DO, I KNOW I'm doing it right outside high school, and I'm taking a FAST track to get there. You don't think I've heard some ****? "Oh, you're young, you can choose anything, get the best."

I've chosen the best.

I've learned that if you believe in something, it doesn't matter what anyone else says, thinks, or does. Believing in what you do makes it worth it (to me) to listen to all the crap everyone has to say. I've already learned to ignore it.

 

[OSUdoc08]

The crap that sometimes comes out of the mouths' of pre-meds, pre-dents, a few choice MDs and, my personal favorite, unemployed MDs' wives.

I'm certain there are others worthy of this distinction... but I can always count on this population to breed some of the biggests jask@sses at times. What baffles me is how limited some of the "brightest minds" can be when it comes to the DO degree. Even my NEJM-publishing, peds/GI, Hopkins grad of an uncle cannot fathom why on earth anyone in his family would want to be a DO, much less a rehab doc. My question to him is who would chose reading and writing journal articles on pediatric poop over ANYTHING? Anyway, this rant is not about my uncle, but about the one thing that irks me the most about being a part of the "DO revolution".

What's the cause of this rant? I was at this bar last night trying to make this pre-dent girl I know feel comfortable and welcome. Things were all fine and dandy until out of the blue she had to start cutting on "DO school". Not in a sarcastic poke fun way, but in the "only *******es go to DO school" way. Oh, the thoughts that were running through my mind... I love it.

To add some personality to this thread, I wanted to be a PT during high school. After some research I wanted to be a physiatrist. After some more reserach I wanted to be a DO. Why does this seem so incomprehensible to some of the "smartest" people I come across?

And the funny thing is, I can always count on the same people that gave me me flack before as a pre-med are always the first to feed me the "You know what? I know a DO who's a Beverly Hills plastic surgeon. And he's doing really well!!!" oh, and I can't forget my favorite, "Oh, you're gonna be a DO? That's OK. you can still be a primary care physician." I could make an entire thread of the idiotic misinformed things I've heard in only 2 years of med school. But I won't.

And to all the jack@sses who think they've accomplished something by getting into their state allopathic school...
Am I resentful? No. Am I annoyed with unwarranted snobbery? Yes.
I like being a DO student and 95% of what the DO degree stands for, but it's hard to get over the crap you run into, esp when you're just trying to enjoy your 12oz bottle of Miller Lite.

Who really cares about what college students (pre-dent, pre-med, etc.) have to say anyway?

I don't know why everyone makes such a big deal about that all the time.

 

[Skip Intro]

I've learned that if you believe in something, it doesn't matter what anyone else says, thinks, or does.

The only thing you really have to believe in is yourself. If you can do that, then it doesn't matter what anyone else says, thinks, or does.

Likewise, many intelligent people have prejudices, misconceptions, and biases that they can't very well explain or substantiate when probed, and to which they will stubbornly cling despite any overwhelming evidence presented to them that elucidates the stupidity and untenability of their position. If you can't bring them around gently and socratically, then it's best not to worry much about them. Rest assured that you will do a lot of good for a lot of people who will indeed appreciate your efforts and abilities. That alone should be enough to afford you a sound sleep when you lay your head on the pillow every night.

-Skip

 

[RDickerson]

That alone should be enough to afford you a sound sleep when you lay your head on the pillow every night.

Wait a second, doctors get paid alot of money, AND get a sound sleep at night? AMAZING!

 

[Skip Intro]

Wait a second, doctors get paid alot of money, AND get a sound sleep at night? AMAZING!

Anything is possible.

-Skip

 

[cfdavid]

All I can say is that it's really easy to get caught up in bulls..t when you're 21 years old, and surrounded by 10-40 thousand other 18-22 year olds that have limited life experiences. I'm not slamming this age group, or faulting them, but it's a fact that being in college can lead people to focus, or get all hung up, on things that don't really matter. I could come up with so many examples, but I don't have the time.

 

[bustbones26]

As a DO you can get a medical lisence in all 50 states, you can do residency in any specialty you want. You can also train at top notch facilities if you have the grades, board scores, research, personality. So to sum it up, yeah, its frustrating, but int he end, you're still going to be a doc, so don't let it get to you.

 

[delicatefade]

I think it is quite natural for someone to desire validation and/or respect from his peers, especially regarding something (like medical school) that takes up SO much of our time and energy. I mean, we spend so much time doing this medical school thing that the schooling and things that go with very easily become the things that will define our self-worth. And when some jackass who doesn't know any better degrades what you are doing and therefore your self worth, it is a bit frustrating at times. I've been there.

Obviously the goal it to move on and find other ways of determining one's validation and self worth. That's not to say it is easy. I would LOVE for everyone I meet and everyone of my friends to think it is AWESOME that I go to a DO school, and I would LOVE for my best friend to understand that I'm not going into some type of "alternative medicine" but that's just not going to happen right now. I'm just happy that I'm here, I'm learning, and that I will be a physician someday.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I think it is quite natural for someone to desire validation and/or respect from his peers, especially regarding something (like medical school) that takes up SO much of our time and energy. I mean, we spend so much time doing this medical school thing that the schooling and things that go with very easily become the things that will define our self-worth. And when some jackass who doesn't know any better degrades what you are doing and therefore your self worth, it is a bit frustrating at times. I've been there.

Obviously the goal it to move on and find other ways of determining one's validation and self worth. That's not to say it is easy. I would LOVE for everyone I meet and everyone of my friends to think it is AWESOME that I go to a DO school, and I would LOVE for my best friend to understand that I'm not going into some type of "alternative medicine" but that's just not going to happen right now. I'm just happy that I'm here, I'm learning, and that I will be a physician someday.

I agree with you for the most part. However, as a medical student, I don't feel that college students (especially pre-med students) are my peers and that their opinion should even be listened to. This would be the same as if I said something to a physican, and he let it affect him.

 

[jhug]

my personal favorite, unemployed MDs' wives.

this is hillarious!!!!
the only thing they understand is how to SPEND the money!!!

 

[delicatefade]

You're right. I'm not talking about pre-meds. I didn't even like pre-meds when I was one. I don't really have that many friends who are in medicine, so most of my peers are non-pre med, non medical people. Occaisionally their misinformed opinions still get to me.

 

[kota315]

A word if I may.....

Not only did I do my research into both allopathic and osteopathic medicine, I interviewed several doctors (DO and MD) before making the decision to go to a DO school. Let me tell you what sealed the deal for me, and what I use to explain the DO the basic differences to the uniformed.....

One of the Doctors I interviewed told me to think of doctors as carpenters....Allopathic doctors come upon a problem (disease) and they dig into their tool pouch and pull out a hammer and a nail....problem fixed....Now an osteopathic physician comes upon the same problem, however, when they dig in their pouch, instead of just a hammer and nail, they have a screw driver, screws and a saw....see both can do the same job, and nothing is wrong with how they do the job, rather the osteopathic physicians have a couple more tools in their pouch to allow them to tackle different jobs in different ways.

-Mark
LECOM 09'

 

[Buster Douglas]

...However, as a medical student, I don't feel that college students (especially pre-med students) are my peers and that their opinion should even be listened to. This would be the same as if I said something to a physican, and he let it affect him.

I'm usually pretty passive about this stuff, but after being at the receiving end of one too many drunken personal attacks, I had to vent. Hell, about a year ago a friend of mine at an allopathic school yelled, "F*** OSTEOPATHIC MEDICINE!" and threw a freakin snare drum at me while I was trying to treat another friend's shoulder. Sure it was 3 in the morning and he was a little out of mind at the time, but what the heck. I know that in the grand scheme of things none of this matters. I am perfectly comfortable with becoming a DO. I wanted to be one since high school. I just think its annoying, and you're kidding yourself if you don't agree, when people make false assumptions, make ignorant remarks, or look at you funny for something you're busting your ass to acheive.

 

[cfdavid]

You should have choked him with the snare!!

 

[Dr Alo]

Buster,
Don't worry. You'll be making twice as much as he can if you decide to do primary care. Patients will come to you for manipulations and pay you cash. As for the pre-dent chick.... just put her on ignore.

In the end, as you rotate through hospitals, you will be called "Dr. Buster". No one know where you went to school or why.

 

[briansmichaud]

was the pre-dent chick hot? just wondering..

 

[OSUdoc08]

was the pre-dent chick hot? just wondering..

Yeah, if she was hot, you could forgive her ignorance.

If not, I'd drop that chick.

 

[Buster Douglas]

was the pre-dent chick hot? just wondering..

Nope.

 

[LVDoc]

I'd drop that chick.

Gotta agree with this one. Besides, she's pre-dent. Not only is she planning on entering a different field, which probably accounts for the majority of her ignorance, but she also doesn't know much of anything yet anyway. So much for a valid opinion...

What your other friend did was a bit uncalled for too. Wow. You need to stop hanging out with people like this, lol. I hope he realized it in the morning after he sobered up.

 

[adennis]

Seriously,
don't sweat it... besides.. you always have to wonder about people who really LIKE to stick their hands in other people's mouths (blech!)...

also feet people.. what's up with that...?



there will ALWAYS be stupid people... who make stupid comments about totally irrelevent things.. and there will ALWAYS be ignorant people... it'll be OUR job to educate them... I think we're up to the task.

 

[Falcondorf]

Brilliant minds have always been opressed by mediocre ones--Albert Einstein--or so it goes like that.

Bottom line--there are only two types of physicians and they'll figure it out soon enough.

 

[VentdependenT]

Forget about the degree its totally irrelevant. Wait till you see just how glorious the world of managed care is. I'm going to open up a bar when all is said and done.

 

[goooooober]

I guess it is understandable why osteopathic medicine and osteopaths are so insecure but not understandable why they waste so much of their valuable time and energy addressing ignorant people. It is one thing to educate, another to constantly seek approval or respect. Most of what DOs face in terms of ignorance and disrespect is the fault of osteopathic medicine. At an organizational level, the AOA goes out of its way to try and get DOs on TV shows and they make and distribute colorful posters that say in large print "DOs are complete doctors that heal with hands", but, seldom do they do anything to improve osteopathic medicine. Instead they continue to open up cookie-cutter schools without even thinking about rotational opportunities, increasing residency and fellowship programs, or improving their qualities. At some DO schools, students are not even allowed into local hospitals for rotations in their 3rd and 4th years (Where is the AOA here?). What is the point? Without a commitment to educational excellence and research at the foundation, it is very easy for pre-healthcare, healthcare or even the general public to look at DOs as inferior.
At a personal level, DOs have a chip on their shoulder, the need to continuously measure up, even those that had a choice between DO and MD schools. How do I know this? Simple, all you need to do is to write a few lines about how a Cledus in a Wanker County somewhere did not like or insulted a DO and you get 7 pages of response from 1st year DO students all the way to directors of residency programs.
Regardless of whether you are accepted or not as a physician, you are going to become a doctor and people will depend on you to help them feel better or save their lives. You will have an understanding of the human body that few on earth will and you will work very hard to attain that understanding. It is absolutely immature and tacky for a really educated person who will become a doctor in a few years or worse, who is a doctor, to be so insecure as to be shaken by comments from a pre-dent or med or even an MD, PhD. The best way to gain respect and accpetance is to be good at what you do, period. No words need be spoken. It is not necessary to waste energy and time complaining about how cousin cledus did not kiss your butt the way he kissed an MDs butt. Instead use that time and energy to read an additional book and better yourself because when you choose osteopathic medicine, you don't have the AMA standing by your side, you're alone.

 

[Buster Douglas]

...It is absolutely immature and tacky for a really educated person who will become a doctor in a few years or worse, who is a doctor, to be so insecure as to be shaken by comments from a pre-dent or med or even an MD, PhD. The best way to gain respect and accpetance is to be good at what you do, period. No words need be spoken. It is not necessary to waste energy and time complaining about how cousin cledus did not kiss your butt the way he kissed an MDs butt...

Thanks, Goober. It all makes sense now.

I was not asking "cousin cledus to kiss my butt the way he kissed an MDs butt". I was merely venting how pathetic it is that people you call friends and family can act like complete jerkoffs sometimes. If you call insecurity being upset that a close friend or a family member who verbally or physically attacks you because of something that should be a non-issue, then so be it. It's like saying a black guy is insecure with himself if he gets upset and feels the need to vent when one of his white friends calls him a racially derogatory term and throws a drum at him for being black. Well, whatever, i feel better having gotten that all out. Say what you want, but I will always say it sucks whenever anyone treats you less than a human being for whatever reason.

 

[backontop]

goober,

good post. made a lot of sense to me. I am often on this forum just to learn about some of the differences that a DO has from an MD.

but too often, i see threads like this, which certainly are not found on the MD forums. People who are secure in their degree would never create such a thread. I wish that DO's would get more recognition, but they just don't. If you want to prove this, go on the street and ask 10 people what an MD is. Usually at least 9 will know. Unfortunately, this is not true with DO's.

another problem is with some of the average MCATs of the DO schools (according to princeton review.) Some of these DO schools need to step it up and start having more rigid requirements to get in, don't you think?

buster douglas, i'm sorry this stuff has happened, and you seem really stressed out, but the black analogy was horrible. also, were people really treating you as sub-human?? i think they just implied that your degree was inferior, rather than telling you to fetch or something. and please do not treat ANYONE when you are drinking (and don't try to reply saying that you were at a party at 3am and 100% sober; i have read your posts, i know you are a drinker)

Thanks, Goober. It all makes sense now.

I was not asking "cousin cledus to kiss my butt the way he kissed an MDs butt". I was merely venting how pathetic it is that people you call friends and family can act like complete jerkoffs sometimes. If you call insecurity being upset that a close friend or a family member who verbally or physically attacks you because of something that should be a non-issue, then so be it. It's like saying a black guy is insecure with himself if he gets upset and feels the need to vent when one of his white friends calls him a racially derogatory term and throws a drum at him for being black. Well, whatever, i feel better having gotten that all out. Say what you want, but I will always say it sucks whenever anyone treats you less than a human being for whatever reason.

 

[cfdavid]

I honestly don't think people really care about the letters behind someones name. It's not just DO's that people don't know much about, but I'd say that 95% of the population couldn't tell you what letters are behind their dentist's, or optometrist's, name either. A nurse at a hospital where I volunteer SWORE that her optometrist BROTHER was a DO! (I even went over the "are you sure he's not an opthalmologist?") It's a non-osteopathic hospital, but 50% of the doctors in the ED are DO's. So, you'd think she'd know.

The real world just doesn't really pay that much attention to such things. It's not right or wrong, but rather a simple fact.

To an extent, it's almost kind of self-important to think that because it's a heavy focus in UNDERGRAD, that the rest of the country should be just as aware of the intricacies of the medical profession, and the various degrees etc.

It's up to the state and federal government to set guidelines on what the various healthcare workers are 'allowed' to do. The general public only cares that they receive good care.

 

[frank51]

another problem is with some of the average MCATs of the DO schools (according to princeton review.) Some of these DO schools need to step it up and start having more rigid requirements to get in, don't you think?

You're right! but you could also say the same thing about some of the MD schools (Meharry, Howard, schools in puerto rico).

 

[Buster Douglas]

buster douglas, i'm sorry this stuff has happened, and you seem really stressed out, but the black analogy was horrible. also, were people really treating you as sub-human?? i think they just implied that your degree was inferior, rather than telling you to fetch or something. and please do not treat ANYONE when you are drinking (and don't try to reply saying that you were at a party at 3am and 100% sober; i have read your posts, i know you are a drinker)

Why is the black analogy so horrible? It's the exact same thing. I am a racial minority. I grew up in the south. I've had my share of conflict with complete strangers over my race when I've just been trying to mind my own business. Fortunately, race has never come to be an issue with close friends or family. If people are not treating you as an equal, for whatever reason (race, gender, SSE status, level of education, etc.), they are treating you less than human.

If you want a better analogy... I don't care what you think about my religion, but I do care if someone physically or verbally attacks me for being a part of my relgion, esp. if you're a close friend or family member.

i have read your posts, i know you are a drinker

Classic.

It's not like I was doing ripping cervical HV/LA on the dude. I was doing muscle energy... and he thanked me for it cause he could lift with his shoulder again after not being able to use it for about a month.

OK, enough of this silliness. I've got boards to study for.

 

[Dr JPH]

Play nice children.

 

[raspberry swirl]

geez people, the OP was just trying to vent some frustrations to an understanding crowd. cut him some slack. we've all had those days where someone has made us feel like poop, for whatever reason. and dont you dare try and say "well im so secure with myself and my decisions that no one could ever make ME feel like crap blah blah blah", cuz i know somebody out there is thinking something narcissistic like that.

 

[Chisel]

goober,

good post. made a lot of sense to me. I am often on this forum just to learn about some of the differences that a DO has from an MD.

but too often, i see threads like this, which certainly are not found on the MD forums. People who are secure in their degree would never create such a thread. I wish that DO's would get more recognition, but they just don't. If you want to prove this, go on the street and ask 10 people what an MD is. Usually at least 9 will know. Unfortunately, this is not true with DO's.

another problem is with some of the average MCATs of the DO schools (according to princeton review.) Some of these DO schools need to step it up and start having more rigid requirements to get in, don't you think?

buster douglas, i'm sorry this stuff has happened, and you seem really stressed out, but the black analogy was horrible. also, were people really treating you as sub-human?? i think they just implied that your degree was inferior, rather than telling you to fetch or something. and please do not treat ANYONE when you are drinking (and don't try to reply saying that you were at a party at 3am and 100% sober; i have read your posts, i know you are a drinker)

Try asking 10 people some time and let me know the response. Just curious.

I'm not a fan of people quoting stats that have no basis in reality.

The reality of it is it depends on where the people are that you are asking. If you ask in a region with a very high population of DO's then I can imagine that most will know what a DO is.

Just my 2 cents. Take it for what it is worth.

Chisel
PCOM 2006

 

[DrFeelgoodDO]

buster douglas, i'm sorry this stuff has happened, and you seem really stressed out, but the black analogy was horrible. also, were people really treating you as sub-human?? i think they just implied that your degree was inferior, rather than telling you to fetch or something. and please do not treat ANYONE when you are drinking (and don't try to reply saying that you were at a party at 3am and 100% sober; i have read your posts, i know you are a drinker)

1) Anyone who is anti-DO is practicing a prejudice that is VERY analogous to racism. You may never see it b/c you are an MD; you sure as hell would if you were a DO and residency directors threw your application in the garbage one they saw "...... College/School of Osteopathic Medicine."

2) How the hell do you know from his posts that he's a "drinker," as you say? Did you check a GGT? Is his MCV >100? Does he have alcoholic hepatitis based on a good h&p and a CMP? Does he smell like booze on a PE? Does he have an elevated EtOH level? You may be an awesome physician, Doctor, but you are not good enough to evaluate or diagnose alcoholism over the internet. Nice try, douche!

 

[goooooober]

Buster, the fact that you compare an attack on your degree to racism and religous persecution tells me that you have not the slightest clue what racism and religous persecution are and how they feel. But, that is a different discussion. Look, I totally agree with you, it is very frustrating and difficult to hear someone put down what you have worked so hard or are working so hard to accomplish, especially when they have not a clue what they are talking about. Nevertheless, it does not change what you do on a daily basis; the people you help look at you as the doctor who helped them. Just once, I would like to see a thread where DOs talk about interesting cases they had and how they helped the patient (with or without OMM). Instead, it is always, "I am a DO and so and so said this and so and so looked at me like this, and so and so threw my application in the dump because I am a DO". WHO GIVES A CRAP? for every one of those people, 100 people will accept you, will like you, will help you to become a doctor and if you are good at what you do, they will respect you. By venting about such ridiculous matters on this forum, you bring down our profession. Rasberry Swirl indicated that I am a narsissict. Well, I am not a narsissict, but I do think that a little ego is healthy and it is about time DOs get some. I mean common, a few times some negative comments were made about chiropracters on this forum and within a day about 5 or more chiropracters wrote extensively about their profession and vigrously defended it. I have never ever seen dentists, chiropracters, carribean docs, herbal medicine docs, allopaths, be so sensitive and insecure. Let us all do ourselves and the osteopathic profession a favor because I promise none else will, especially the AOA. Let us stop whining about how our degrees are lacking and lets focus on what we as osteopaths and more important as physicians are doing every day to make this world a better place. If a jerk puts you down for being an osteopath, share it with a friend, a spouse, your dog or the wall of your room, but please don't degrade DOs and osteopathic profession by sharing it here.

 

[raspberry swirl]

Ahh Goober, the contradictions in your post are rampant. Not to mention, your soapbox is quite high. I feel bad posting a personal attack, however, since you have done so, I feel am I quite within my rights to do the same.

I think it's pretty ballsy to tell someone you have never met and don't know anything about, that he has no idea what religious or racial persecution feels like (and, backontop, so is saying that his thoughts and opinions have no merit simply because he has been known to consume alcohol).

This is an Osteopathic forum concerning Osteopathic issues about Osteopathic experiences. It should reflect the reality of those who are a part of the Osteopathic community, not what you, goober, think the public should think of Osteopathic medicine. I'd say 95% of the people on this board could, to some degree, relate to Buster's experience. Experiences like his are reality. And they can be frustrating. To not acknowledge this and to be upset with his comments only exposes your own ignorance and insecurities with the subject.

Regardless, how is expressing frustration over a personal situation bringing down the profession? Is it any more derogatory in comparison to the things that you said? For example, you said our parent organization, the AOA, sucks and does nothing for us, and that DOs are the most insecure group of people you've ever met, as well as a big bunch of whiners. That sounds like putting down the profession to me.

And as far as DOs needing to get a little healthy ego, goober my dear, you seem to have quite enough to go around for all of us. You've managed to slander fellow colleagues, put down the AOA and the profession in general, and whine about how the rest of us need to stop being so insecure. Well I'm not insecure. And I've been on these threads long enough to know that Buster, and 90% of the other osteopathic posters here are not insecure either. It is insulting to suggest that if we encounter prejudice or ill-treatment that we cannot discuss it with our colleagues for fear of degrading the profession. What are you so scared of, goober? That someone will read these posts and think less of you?

Please, for the integrity of these threads, pull the self-righteous pole out of your a$$, climb down off that soapbox, and join the rest of us in the real world.

And as Buster said, this is ridiculous. I'm going to go study for boards.

 

[JAMMAN]

1) Anyone who is anti-DO is practicing a prejudice that is VERY analogous to racism.

While both are examples of prejudice, anti-DO is not analagous to racism.

You can't choose your race, but you can choose to be a DO.

Whether that is a wise choice or not is a matter of opinion and a frequently debated topic.

 

[Dr Who]

You're right! but you could also say the same thing about some of the MD schools (Meharry, Howard, schools in puerto rico).

Hey man,
This thread started with a rant about certain people who talk as if they know when in fact they are ignorant.
The med schools in Puerto Rico have "low" MCAT scores because they scale the scores for non english speakers from the island. For US mainland applicants (native english speakers) normal MCAT scores for those accepted into eother Ponce or UCC range from 26- 30.
When the scaled scores are factored in with the rest the it brings down the overall MCAT scores.
Its hard enough taking the MCAT in english when that is your native language, Just try taking a test such as the MCAT in a language that you are not fluent in and you will understand what I mean.

Dr Who

 

[briansmichaud]

Forget about the degree its totally irrelevant. Wait till you see just how glorious the world of managed care is. I'm going to open up a bar when all is said and done.

can i be a partner in your bar??

 

[GENERAL TSO]

The crap that sometimes comes out of the mouths' of pre-meds, pre-dents, a few choice MDs and, my personal favorite, unemployed MDs' wives.

I'm certain there are others worthy of this distinction... but I can always count on this population to breed some of the biggests jask@sses at times. What baffles me is how limited some of the "brightest minds" can be when it comes to the DO degree. Even my NEJM-publishing, peds/GI, Hopkins grad of an uncle cannot fathom why on earth anyone in his family would want to be a DO, much less a rehab doc. My question to him is who would chose reading and writing journal articles on pediatric poop over ANYTHING? Anyway, this rant is not about my uncle, but about the one thing that irks me the most about being a part of the "DO revolution".

What's the cause of this rant? I was at this bar last night trying to make this pre-dent girl I know feel comfortable and welcome. Things were all fine and dandy until out of the blue she had to start cutting on "DO school". Not in a sarcastic poke fun way, but in the "only *******es go to DO school" way. Oh, the thoughts that were running through my mind... I love it.

To add some personality to this thread, I wanted to be a PT during high school. After some research I wanted to be a physiatrist. After some more reserach I wanted to be a DO. Why does this seem so incomprehensible to some of the "smartest" people I come across?

And the funny thing is, I can always count on the same people that gave me me flack before as a pre-med are always the first to feed me the "You know what? I know a DO who's a Beverly Hills plastic surgeon. And he's doing really well!!!" oh, and I can't forget my favorite, "Oh, you're gonna be a DO? That's OK. you can still be a primary care physician." I could make an entire thread of the idiotic misinformed things I've heard in only 2 years of med school. But I won't.

And to all the jack@sses who think they've accomplished something by getting into their state allopathic school...
Am I resentful? No. Am I annoyed with unwarranted snobbery? Yes.
I like being a DO student and 95% of what the DO degree stands for, but it's hard to get over the crap you run into, esp when you're just trying to enjoy your 12oz bottle of Miller Lite.

Honestly, I think as long as DO schools continually let sub-par academic performers in their schools they will have a bad name.

I dont think that people care about the holistic medical approaches anymore as we all know that you guys dont even do them once you are out in the real world and have your own practices.

The problem I have with DO schools is that they take people with low GPAs that cannot get into MD schools and that most of them have very low board passing rates.

Until the DO schools tighted up their security and quit letting these sub-par individuals in their seats I am with the pre-dent girl and I say,

At least you can be a primary care physician......

 

[Dr Sum Day]

The problem I have with DO schools is that they take people with low GPAs that cannot get into MD schools and that most of them have very low board passing rates.
......

Not true

 

[Karmajunkie]

Honestly, I think as long as DO schools continually let sub-par academic performers in their schools they will have a bad name.

I dont think that people care about the holistic medical approaches anymore as we all know that you guys dont even do them once you are out in the real world and have your own practices.

The problem I have with DO schools is that they take people with low GPAs that cannot get into MD schools and that most of them have very low board passing rates.

Until the DO schools tighted up their security and quit letting these sub-par individuals in their seats I am with the pre-dent girl and I say,

At least you can be a primary care physician......

Can we say ignorance class?

 

[Karmajunkie]

Ahh Goober, the contradictions in your post are rampant. . . . .

Amen to that. The idea that Buster is insecure because he is expressing frustration to a group of his peers is ridiculous. Not only does he have a valid point but he is expressing it in a healthy way. If you don't believe this you should consult your local psychotherapist on the merits of group therapy.

In addition, the statement that no other groups of professionals engage in this type of behavior is a load of crap. Here is a quick example:
A close friend of mine graduated from Mayo and is now performing a primary care residency in MN. Last weekend she was venting to me because during her recent rural rotation she ran into a couple of patients who complained that the care they were getting at the local hospital was inferior to that which they could get at Mayo. Since she knew otherwise, she was a bit disgruntled that these patients were insulting the physicians she was working with.

It's not abnormal to get frustrated and even angry when we encounter disrespect. Talking about it with our peers is a healthy thing to do. Bottling it up and ignoring it is the unhealthy alternative.

The fact that I have to explain all of this means that my writing is probably in vein. So why do I bother to write then? Who knows? Maybe I just need to vent.

 

[maizevraptorm]

Can we say ignorance class?

I have a great respect for my friends who performed well in school, got the 4.0, and are doing great things in their lives.

But grades aren't everything. After spending two years slaving in the real world, I can tell you, it is people skills that matter.

Osteopathic schools, I believe, train better doctors, because they focus on touch, which is an inherent people skill. They also give a greater focus to patient autonomy.

That is why I chose osteopathic medicine.

Allopathic medicine is adopting many of the patient centered principles of osteopathic medicine anyway.

It makes no sense to bicker about which philosophy is better. When I am leading a team in the OR, I am not going to care who is beside, only how confident they are and what skills they have.

 

[backontop]

this is officially my favorite thread. i don't care if i'm not a DO; i'm never leaving this forum.

I have a great respect for my friends who performed well in school, got the 4.0, and are doing great things in their lives.

But grades aren't everything. After spending two years slaving in the real world, I can tell you, it is people skills that matter.

Osteopathic schools, I believe, train better doctors, because they focus on touch, which is an inherent people skill. They also give a greater focus to patient autonomy.

That is why I chose osteopathic medicine.

Allopathic medicine is adopting many of the patient centered principles of osteopathic medicine anyway.

It makes no sense to bicker about which philosophy is better. When I am leading a team in the OR, I am not going to care who is beside, only how confident they are and what skills they have.

 

[cfdavid]

Honestly, I think as long as DO schools continually let sub-par academic performers in their schools they will have a bad name.

I dont think that people care about the holistic medical approaches anymore as we all know that you guys dont even do them once you are out in the real world and have your own practices.

The problem I have with DO schools is that they take people with low GPAs that cannot get into MD schools and that most of them have very low board passing rates.

Until the DO schools tighted up their security and quit letting these sub-par individuals in their seats I am with the pre-dent girl and I say,

At least you can be a primary care physician......

Most DO's ARE primary care physicians. And I'm sure those that aren't are very much on top of their game in order to compete for some of the very competitive specialties.

Regardless, I think that the reason that those in the real world don't place such emphasis on the whole MD vs. DO thing is that it really doesn't matter when each professional finds themselves doing a few rectal exams a week on what could be overweight, middle aged men (or women) with potentially bad hygene.

I have to think that it's quite humbling.

People need to ditch the hang ups that are so typical of having very little real world experience.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Honestly, I think as long as DO schools continually let sub-par academic performers in their schools they will have a bad name.

I dont think that people care about the holistic medical approaches anymore as we all know that you guys dont even do them once you are out in the real world and have your own practices.

The problem I have with DO schools is that they take people with low GPAs that cannot get into MD schools and that most of them have very low board passing rates.

Until the DO schools tighted up their security and quit letting these sub-par individuals in their seats I am with the pre-dent girl and I say,

At least you can be a primary care physician......

Pretty much everything you've said on here is untrue.

1. Holistic medicine = this is what everyone wants
2. Low board passing rates = my school had a 100% pass rate
3. "At least"...primary care physician = you can be in ANY specialty that you want

 

[MGoBlueDO]

OSUDOC08 how's neuro going? Did you get the files I sent...I hope they helped...
Anyway...why I'm proud to be a DO...we're accepted by a ton of doctors...

We had the Assistant Surgeon General Dr. Moritsugu, MD, MPH,
Dr. David Katz from Yale, and Dr. Pi-Sunyer from Columbia College of Physicians and Surgeons and they were proud to lecture our class on certain topics...I mean these 3 guys aren't just run of the mill doctors -- these are leaders in their own perspective fields...we have Dr. Friedlander, also...www.pathguy.com is who our path professor is...he's the number 2 or 3 resource in First Aid for USMLE Step I...I mean he teaches at a DO school. None of them belittle DOs and some of their specialists who they work with or see for their own medical problems are DOs...

Sure our average GPA is a tad lower, but this year all the incoming students had to have a 27-30 on their MCAT witha 3.6 GPA, that's similar to what other MD programs have had in the past years anyway...once you're in grades don't matter except the boards and your medical school GPA...

A good doctor isn't how smart you are...I mean if you can't relate to people then what's the point if you're so stuck up with your own "high self" that you can't even relate to a person who asks for help...I like DO's cause they listen to your problems...usually the MDs who belittle DO's don't listen to anyone...they also put down everyone else nurses and other collegues who are MDs just to make themselves feel better.

 

[OSUdoc08]

OSUDOC08 how's neuro going? Did you get the files I sent...I hope they helped...
Anyway...why I'm proud to be a DO...we're accepted by a ton of doctors...

We had the Assistant Surgeon General Dr. Moritsugu, MD, MPH,
Dr. David Katz from Yale, and Dr. Pi-Sunyer from Columbia College of Physicians and Surgeons and they were proud to lecture our class on certain topics...I mean these 3 guys aren't just run of the mill doctors -- these are leaders in their own perspective fields...we have Dr. Friedlander, also...www.pathguy.com is who our path professor is...he's the number 2 or 3 resource in First Aid for USMLE Step I...I mean he teaches at a DO school. None of them belittle DOs and some of their specialists who they work with or see for their own medical problems are DOs...

Sure our average GPA is a tad lower, but this year all the incoming students had to have a 27-30 on their MCAT witha 3.6 GPA, that's similar to what other MD programs have had in the past years anyway...once you're in grades don't matter except the boards and your medical school GPA...

A good doctor isn't how smart you are...I mean if you can't relate to people then what's the point if you're so stuck up with your own "high self" that you can't even relate to a person who asks for help...I like DO's cause they listen to your problems...usually the MDs who belittle DO's don't listen to anyone...they also put down everyone else nurses and other collegues who are MDs just to make themselves feel better.

Neuro's not too bad.....thanks!

 

[DrFeelgoodDO]

While both are examples of prejudice, anti-DO is not analagous to racism.

You can't choose your race, but you can choose to be a DO.

It's VERY analogous. Being able to choose a medical degree versus not being able to choose your race is neither here nor there. You are wrong. Period.

Whether that is a wise choice or not is a matter of opinion and a frequently debated topic.

Oh yeah, and thanks for pointing out that out. I didn't know that until you mentioned it. F*ckstick.

 

[DrMom]

This has gone on long enough. Closing.