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The Paradox of Osteopathy

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - DO' started by jcr_massage, Dec 18, 2005.

  1. jcr_massage

    jcr_massage BodyworkSweety
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    My Mom sent me this article, I will have to post it in two parts. I believe that it originally cmae from the New Englan Journal of Medicine.
    Blessings
    Bodyworksweety

    The Paradox Of Osteopathy

    In the spring of 1864, Andrew Taylor Still, a rural Kansas practitioner, watched helplessly as the best medications then available failed to save his three children from spinal meningitis. Bitterly disappointed, Still set out to devise an alternative healing practice. He eventually based his new system on the idea that manipulation of the spine could improve blood flow and thus improve health by allowing the body to heal itself. His philosophy included a healthy dose of moralism; patients were forbidden to consume any liquor and, as part of the break from existing practices, were also forbidden to take any medicine. Still founded a school to teach his new system of osteopathy in Kirksville, Missouri, in 1892.

    Osteopathy was not the only system of spinal manipulation to be created in the late 19th century. Chiropractic, established in 1895 by Daniel David Palmer, aimed to relieve obstruction in the nerves rather than in the blood vessels. Osteopathy and chiropractic initially shared several characteristics. Both were founded when Americans freely chose from many systems of healing. Both were homegrown American systems created at about the same time by messianic Midwesterners. Both systems were seen by many Midwesterners as preferable to the reductionist European model of laboratory-based medicine, which was established most firmly on the eastern seaboard and was fast becoming the standard.

    Over the course of the 20th century, medicine as practiced by M.D.'s (sometimes called allopathy) has come to dominate U.S. health care. Chiropractic and osteopathy, initially parts of a pluralistic medical system, have taken very different paths. Chiropractors have generally remained focused on spinal manipulation for a limited set of conditions, particularly those that are often resistant to allopathic therapy, such as back pain. Osteopaths, on the other hand, have worked hard to employ the entire therapeutic armamentarium of the modern physician, and in so doing they have moved closer to allopathy. )

    The move toward assimilation became explicit in California in the early 1960s, when the California Medical Association and the California Osteopathic Association merged in what has been called the osteopathic profession's darkest hour. By attending a short seminar and paying $65, a doctor of osteopathy (D.O.) could obtain an M.D. degree; 86 percent of the D.O.'s in the state (out of a total of about 2000) chose to do so. The College of Osteopathic Physicians and Surgeons became the University of California College of Medicine, Irvine. Many osteopaths feared that the California merger was the wave of the future and that the profession would not survive. But it did, and in so doing it may have become even stronger. D.O.'s are now licensed in all 50 states to prescribe drugs, deliver babies, and perform surgery -- in short, to do anything that M.D.'s can do. Despite national recognition, osteopathy is still a regional phenomenon in ways that mirror its historical origin. The ratio of D.O.'s to the population varies by a factor of almost 3, from a low of 7.7 per 100,000 population in the West to a high of 20.4 per 100,000 in the Midwest; the number is 8.5 per 100,000 in the South and 18.3 per 100,000 in the Northeast. M.D.'s are far more evenly distributed throughout the country.

    Osteopathy was originally created as a radical alternative to what was seen as a failing medical system. Its success at moving into the mainstream may have come at a cost -- the loss of identity. Most people -- including physicians -- know very little about the field (most people know more about chiropractic). Many people -- even osteopaths -- question what osteopathy has to offer that is distinctive.

    Those who claim that osteopathy remains a unique system usually base their argument on two tenets. One is the holistic or patient-centered approach, with a focus on preventive care that they say characterizes osteopathy. That claim to uniqueness is hard to defend in the light of the increasing interest paid to this approach within general internal medicine and other areas of allopathic medicine. The other, potentially more robust, claim to uniqueness is the use of osteopathic manipulation as part of the overall therapeutic approach. In osteopathic manipulation, the bones, muscles, and tendons are manipulated to promote blood flow through tissues and thus enhance the body's own healing powers. The technique, based on the idea of a myofascial continuity that links every part of the body with every other part, involves the "skillful and dexterous use of the hands" to treat what was once called the osteopathic lesion but is now referred to as somatic dysfunction. Osteopathic manipulation is not well known (or practiced) by allopathic physicians, but for decades it has stood as the core therapeutic method of osteopathic medicine.

    Some claim that osteopathic physicians are more parsimonious in their use of medical technology. Thus, they can provide more cost-effective medical care and reduce the need for medications, which, although effective, can have serious side effects. The specific mechanism that would account for any improvement in back pain directly related to osteopathic manipulation is unclear, but the most important studies will be those that test whether the technique works in clinical practice. Part of the success of osteopathic manipulation for patients with back pain may come from the fact that physicians who use osteopathic manipulation touch their patients.

    Osteopathic manual therapy is claimed to be useful for treating a wide range of conditions, from pancreatitis to Parkinson's disease, sinusitis, and asthma. Some leading osteopaths say that manual therapy should be part of almost every visit to an osteopathic physician. A recent president of the American Osteopathic Association claimed that he "almost always turned to [osteopathic manipulation] before considering any other modality," and he asserted that 90 percent of his patients got better with osteopathic manipulation alone. Such claims underscore a raging debate within osteopathy and a disconnection between its theories and its practice. A 1995 survey of 1055 osteopathic family physicians found that they used manual therapy only occasionally; only 6.2 percent used osteopathic manipulation for more than half of their patients, and almost a third used it for fewer than 5 percent. The more recent their graduation from medical school, the less likely practitioners were to use osteopathic manipulation, a finding consistent with the view that osteopathic practice is moving closer to allopathic practice. A decreasing interest in osteopathic manipulation may also indicate that more physicians enter osteopathic medical school not as a result of a deeply held belief in the osteopathic philosophy but after failing to be admitted to allopathic medical schools. The osteopathic physicians who are more committed to osteopathic manipulation tend to be more likely than their colleagues to have a fundamentalist religious orientation.

    With or without manipulation therapy, osteopathic medicine seems to be undergoing resurgence. Although the number of allopathic medical schools in the United States has remained stable since 1980, at about 125, the number of osteopathic medical schools has increased from 14 to 19. The number of graduates each year has increased at an even more disproportionate rate. The number of graduates of allopathic medical schools has increased only slightly, from 15,135 in 1980 to 15,923 in 1997, whereas the number of graduates of osteopathic medical schools has almost doubled, from 1059 to 2009, over the same period. Osteopathic medical schools have not done as well as allopathic medical schools in recruiting underrepresented minorities and women, and students entering osteopathic medical schools have somewhat lower grade-point averages and lower scores on the Medical College Admission Test. On the other hand, the ratio of applicants to those admitted is higher for osteopathic medical schools, 3.5 applicants for each person admitted, as compared with 2.4 for allopathic medical schools.

    Overall, osteopathic medical schools have come to resemble allopathic medical schools in most respects; some students even share classes. Graduates of osteopathic medical schools more often than not go on to residency training in allopathic programs. An evaluation of performance on the certifying examination of the American Board of Internal Medicine in the 1980s noted that although physicians from osteopathic medical schools did not do as well as those from allopathic programs, overall they "did well" and could be an "untapped reservoir of talented physicians" for internal medicine.
     
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  3. jcr_massage

    jcr_massage BodyworkSweety
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    The Paradox of Osteopathy Cont

    Although they constitute only about 5 percent of U.S. physicians, osteopaths may be disproportionately important for the health care system by virtue of their distribution in terms of specialty and location: 60 percent of graduates of osteopathic medical schools select generalist fields. Because osteopathic education is more community-based than allopathic education, and because osteopathic schools are smaller, osteopathic education may be able to adapt more quickly to new approaches to health care delivery. Many more osteopaths than allopaths (18.1 percent vs. 11.5 percent) select rural areas in which to practice. One osteopathic medical school found that 20 percent of its graduates were practicing in underserved communities.

    At the end of the century, osteopathy continues its uneasy dance with allopathy, but only one partner is really paying attention. The resurgence in the numbers of osteopaths should not mask the precarious position of osteopathy. At its birth, osteopathy was a radical concept, rejecting much of what allopathic medicine claimed was new and useful. Today, osteopathic medicine has moved close to the mainstream -- close enough that in general it is no longer considered alternative medicine. The long-term survival of osteopathic medicine will depend on its ability to define itself as distinct from and yet still equivalent to allopathic medicine. That argument may best be articulated not in theoretical terms, but by demonstrating treatment outcomes. The paradox is this: if osteopathy has become the functional equivalent of allopathy, what is the justification for its continued existence? And if there is value in therapy that is uniquely osteopathic -- that is, based on osteopathic manipulation or other techniques -- why should its use be limited to osteopaths?

    Joel D. Howell, M.D., Ph.D. University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48109-0604

    The New England Journal of Medicine November 4, 1999;341:1426-1431, 1465-1467.

    Dr. Mercola's Comment: I rarely print an entire article; but this one is a rare exception. I am an osteopathic physician and I have never read a more eloquent and accurate assessment of osteopathic medicine. This is a classic. I believe I will reprint this article and hand it out to patients who wish to know what an osteopathic physician really is. I have mixed feelings about having chosen to be a D.O. as I chose it for its natural philosophical orientation. In reality however, as Dr. Howell so beautifully describes, there is essentially little difference between a D.O. and an M.D. I did find it interesting that it is actually harder to get into a D.O. school than an M.D. school. One of my friends could not get accepted into an osteopathic medical school and had to go to a regular medical school. Patients frequently ask for a physician who practices medicine like I do and mistakenly believe that all D.O.’s practice natural medicine. I have to regrettably tell them that this is not so and that they are better off contacting ACAM for a referral (800-532-3688) as most ACAM physicians are at least oriented towards natural medicine and more open to those alternatives. I do believe that the selection process for osteopathic schools is oriented to identifying other variables than grades and test scores, which tends to produce more empathic physicians.
     
  4. tkim

    tkim 10 cc's cordrazine
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  5. Static Line

    Static Line America's Guard of Honor
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    I think this is a good article. The fact is that science has become better so naturally the two, osteopathy and allopathy, are going to be more similar as we both employ virtually the same treatment methods. The science of 120-130 years ago of blood-letting and all sorts of other quackery that allopaths embraced is no longer. At that time there was a need for an alternative medicine, and criticism from the osteopaths about allopathic treatments back then probably played a role in forcing science to improve. That was capitalism at its best. Having been a paramedic for 10 years, other than title I saw no difference between the MD or DO in the ED. I don't think osteopathy has a hold on natural holistic medicine anymore which is code for "healthy living." I think stating that MD's only treat symptoms are more divisive and inflammatory than helpful. I know plenty of MD's that steer their patients towards a more healthy lifestyle because they too know that preventive medicine is better, rather than trying to fix them when they break. I also think that certain elements of OMM are beneficial (at least I feel really good after an OMM lab), and certain elements of the allopathic world are waking up to that fact. As time goes on I think we, allopathy and osteopathy, are going to become more and more alike.
     
  6. planningMD

    planningMD Member
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    Ok...

    Im a chump.

    Here is the story:

    In 2000, I was accepted into osteopathic medical school. I had taken the MCAT a year ago without having taken most of the typical prerequisites, and scored a 21. I remember thinking to myself, "what am I doing taking this test, i have never seen most of the material here!" I have an aunt and two uncles who are MD doctors, but the DO title did not (and mostly still does not) matter to me.

    The thing that kept playing on my mind was I had just gotten a C in organic chemistry, and online no less. I invested a total of approximately 14 hours into the entire class, that is, 2 hours enrolling and getting ready for the class, and 12 hours studying and taking tests. The entire 12 hours was an all night, no sleep marathon, on a cold Monday in December. I had no organic chemistry knowledge previously, but the design of the class, and fast research allowed me to pass an entire semester of organic chemistry in one night. Having taken 3 tests and a final, I was finished by 6am that next morning, and ready to go to my electrical engineering job in two hours.

    This was really only the beginning to an amazingly easy ride into the osteopathic world of medicine. I found that without trying, I could slip in under their radar, and additionally get a full ride in achieving something that I thought I had wanted to do since I was five. I thought it was all a part of the life of that allowed me to be accepted into the high IQ society, Mensa, where if you could think pretty fast then people thought you were something special even if you were a lazy bum doing nothing to better society, much like myself.

    So the school year started as I had expected, lectures all the time, and a test in a few weeks. Well as was my typical routine, I would not study. In fact I would wait until the night before the exam to do any studying at all. I manage to pass my tests with a typical score of 75-80%, getting near perfect scores in the subject of pathology that was considered to be so hard for everyone, so I was not too worried about trying any harder. It was bothering me somewhat, that I am in this to handle the life or death health choices for many people, and I was taking this all so lightly. However, my first final exam I did not even bother to study for and I failed. It was a complete surprise to me as were the next few months where this exact process repeated.

    I left feeling surprised and hurt, partly feeling mad at the school, but really I knew it was my own fault. In some way, I was happy to leave, there were a number of small things that happened that encouraged me to not try, and I wasn't learning like I should. I liked the people, the material was very interesting, I got along with everyone very well. I was even the President two clubs.

    In the following weeks I realized I had to wake up and take notice of what had occurred, or even if I never fulfill my dream, I will go through life not doing my best, not enjoying life.

    So, I set up a plan, in painful consideration of my faults but also my strengths, with goals I decided I must achieve if I were to even consider going back to school. First, I decided I needed to find my driving force in pursuing this pathway. This is the reason why I wanted to do this at all, I knew I had felt it a number of times, but this had to be concrete to me, and make me want to try hard, and do very, very well. Second was to take a complete set of prerequisites this time, and do not slouch on this as my previous school actually allowed, by getting straight A's in all new courses. Medical school requires extreme dedication and if I could not get A's in these simple classes then how could I reasonably expect to do well in life or death situations that require fast and most importantly accurate thinking? Third was to study for and retake the MCAT. I decided I must far surpass the average for acceptance to satisfy my personal resolve. Only meeting averages or just passing is how I used to operate, and this is how I run my life no longer.

    Now, 4 years after I started, I have achieved a straight A record on my new classes, and a 33 on the MCAT. I became certified as a paramedic and have logged several thousand hours rushing to literally save people's lives. This was most important to me, because I feel I have gained a truly invaluable experience in this time as a paramedic, giving me the spirit and motivation I had only previously seen on occasion. In addition, I continued my work as an Electrical Engineer and received my PE license, however, this only managed to further my realization that work as an engineer is not what I have enjoyed, it is not what I felt a strong calling to do in life.

    My past experiences have been that of someone who had life very easy and was never pushed. I felt like getting into osteopathic medical school was something that was simply handed to me, and I never felt encouraged to try. I have been handed scholarship after scholarship, opportunity after opportunity, all just simply handed to me, and that part of my life has been nearly meaningless in helping me or helping others in this amazing journey we call life. I have learned a great deal in the past four years, and can honestly assure you, but most importantly know in myself, that I will no longer be lackadaisical in what I do. Life is something you get to play with for only a few fleeting moments, and then it is gone. I have chosen my present path because I know it to be something dear to my heart, and I feel very challenged and motivated from within to pursue this further.

    So I guess what I am asking, is this dream even possible after all of this time, am I just kidding myself even now?? Will any MD school let me in its doors with my history??
     
  7. USArmyDoc

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    Why are you posting in here tool?
     
  8. planningMD

    planningMD Member
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    you seem mad at me. im not sure why.

    if you are referring to my past history, then good. tell me what you think. am i screwed for the rest of my life now?? are you an example of how everyone else will treat me? this is what i am trying to find out.

    im sorry you and I have gotten off on a bad foot, i guess in retrospec what i wrote sounds a little like im bragging, but i really take it to heart and feel that i have a messed up history, and feel bad about stuff ive let slip by and how ive acted. this is not at all how i am now. i just dont know if that means anything now. :(
     
  9. QofQuimica

    QofQuimica Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting....
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    I think he's wondering why you posted this story in the pre-osteo forum. You are really asking the wrong people for advice. My suggestion is that you contact the admissions director at one of your state allopathic schools, explain your situation, and get HIS advice. We're pre-meds, not adcom members; how the heck should *we* know whether you can get yourself admitted to an allopathic school???
     
  10. jcr_massage

    jcr_massage BodyworkSweety
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    I cannot say that I am sure why you are posting this in response to the article that I posted, but never the less I will reply. First of allk I should tell you that I come from a family who could not afford to send me to college straight out of high school and loans etc did not cover it when I first graduated. I was frustrated with what I thought the "bad hand" the world handed me. I didn't go to school for a while. Now I am a 28 year old undergrad and I take my education very seriously since I have had to make considerable sacrifices to be able to obtain an education. I have learned that a mature student strives to get an A even when they know that the class is easy and they could slide by with a C without studying. With this in mind it is always hard for me to see that when people are handed things especially the type of opportunities you are referring to, they fail to appreciate them and take them seriously. It is unfortunate that when things come easy, people have no appreciation for them. Do you have any idea how blessed you were to be handed the intelligence you have and at the same time for it to be coupled with the opportunities you were given? Do you even have any idea what it is like to fight, literally kicking and screaming to be able to get and education and then get the grades to get into a medical school, be it allopathic or osteopathic?
    So from that standpoint, yes I wholeheartedly agree, you were an idiot. But from one standpoint I understand. When I was in highschool I did not take my education or my aptitude for science seriously. Knowing that parents could not help me go to college I decided that school was not worth my time and therfore I did not study and just slid by with c's and d's. BUT I learned my lesson. I am halfway done with undergrad and I have a 3.8......I work very hard for my grades now, even on the classes that I know I could get a c in even if I didn't study.
    In answer to your question, is it possible? Maybe. But I stress maybe! Any school is going to seriously frown on the idea that you failed out no matter what the reason is, and most of them won't care why you failed.
    I am a firm believer though that where there is a will there is a way. If you truly feel that you have changed and you can approach your education with maturity and dedication, and if you have really searched your soul and you know beyond the shadow of a doubt that this is what you want, then rollup your sleeves and fight for it. I imagine it will be quite a fight, but against all odds it may be possible. Make sure you get straight A's and be prepared to kiss *ss for a while and to defend your decision , if you are lucky some school will give you the benefit of the doubt and let you in.

    By the way, your on the wrong board, if you are not remotely interested in DO, you are totally in the wrong place. And given your attitude and comment about still not being interested in DO whatsoever, I still have to question if you have matured enough to really become a doctor. You need to do some soul searching and seriously evaluate why you want to do this. I am not sure based on what you said if what you really want is to be a doctor, or if you just got a pride kick in the *ss and want to prove that you can do it afterall. That's the wrong reason to go into this career. Enough Said

    Blessings
    Bodyworksweety
     
  11. planningMD

    planningMD Member
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    thanks for the comments.

    i dont see the osteopathic and allopathic worlds being much different in what they teach, i DO see that it was much easier for me to get into my DO school, and i guess because of that i didnt take it seriously. i guess up to that point i never took much of anything seriously. yes i have and still am very blessed. i dont know if ill get to do it again, but i know what i want in life, i know its not something to just take for granted. i guess the idea of going MD is because i dont see it as being as "easy" as the DO route and therefore make me work harder somehow? but honestly i would be happy with either route. very happy actually.

    the education afforded to DOs or MDs is THE SAME. dont let anyone else tell you otherwise. the difference you find will be isolated to a school per school comparison. i can tell you this with first hand experience. i am not "ashamed" of the DO route... i do not really even feel a need to say that other than it was implied to me already.

    i think the article was accurate, except it is NOT harder to get into a DO school. it is a statistical misinterpretation. the competition ave is lower in "hard to achieve statistics" than at MD schools, even though the total number of DO applicants is much higher on a per seat basis than at MD schools. this is also a fact. any way, if you observe the statistics for DO or MD relations, you see that QUICKLY the DO class stats are approximating the MD class statistics.
     
  12. planningMD

    planningMD Member
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    btw, God bless you.
     
  13. jcr_massage

    jcr_massage BodyworkSweety
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    Okay I have to point this out to you. You are treading a very thin line here, that shows you may have still not learned your lesson. Something is not better and therefore more worth your time because it is easier. Believe me I understand the philosophy because it is exactly how I though in highschool. Ace Bio and Chem classes and get kicked out of HomeEc and Childcare & Parenting. I though that if it was easier it wasn't worth my time. But you know that you are a mature student when you can put forth enough effort to still get an A even if you could slide by with a lower grade without studying. Do not do this because you think it will be the hardest and most challenging things to do so that you can boost your pride. If your going to doit, do it because you want with every fiber of your being to be a doctor. That's it. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt, but to some extent I get the feeling that this mission you are on is not about being a doctor. It's about saying "Hey look what I did" even after I screwed it up.....I still did it. The hardest thing doctor's have to do (and many never master) is let go of the pride and the control issues. Being a doctor is not about you, it's about your patient. It's a self sacrificing career, not a self serving one. So again.......you need to dig deep........Why do you want to do this?

    Blessings
    Bodyworksweety
     
  14. NonTradMed

    NonTradMed Perpetual Student
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    planningMD,

    Congrats on pulling your act together. You are, unfortunately, in the wrong forum for your question but lucky for you, some of us are going through both DO and MD apps :D

    My two cents:

    Your biggest barrier, aside from doing poorly in med school is failing out. When I was filling out apps, one of the things they asked was have I ever been kicked out of medical school for academic reasons? Quite a few MD schools wrote outright on their application that they do not accept students who've been kicked out of med school. Now, I'm not sure if they mean just MD schools, or both MD and DO. DO schools also ask and they the ones I've filled out forms for wanted explanations of why you were kicked out/dropped out/left medical school. Therefore, I'd have to believe med schools are going to give your app a closer look (and not in a good way! :scared: )

    You will need to ask about that. But your biggest problem will be that F on your med school transcript. The idea is, even if you've shown good grades and good stats NOW, the fact that you didn't 'hack it' at a med school is going to be a red flag to adcoms. So maybe focus on explaining this on your primary application, and stress how much you have changed since then.

    MD schools, for whatever reason, won't let you forget bad grades EVER. Just the other day, was scouting the forums, found a guy who is applying to the OMFS program where you are awarded both MD and DMD (dental). He did horrible as an undergrad (<3.0), did a year of science classes to patch up, then excelled in his dental school and in his dental boards. Now, he is applying to these MD/DMD programs and the MD adcoms keeps on asking him about his undergrad GPA that he had taken almost a decade ago (cause the top scores since then obviously didnt mean much)! So yeah, very petty some adcoms.

    I know you probably didn't mean much by it, but for DO schools, it's not as easy to get into as you may think. For example, TCOM's average is a 29 and I think a 3.5. A 21 would be on the low side of acceptance today, and you would be hardpressed to get in unless you had stellar everything else. Remember, stats say the avg DO school MCAT is 25-26, so having scored points below that is equivalent of doing a 26 or 27 for MD schools----doable, but it's not a cakewalk. That said, your new stats would mean this time around, academically, DO schools would be easy to get into.

    However, despite your current new MCAT and grades, DO schools may still be hesitant to accept you simply because you did drop out, but I'm not sure if they'd be as bad about it as MD schools. I just find DO schools tend to be more forgiving of youthful indiscretions so perhaps rethink applying to DO schools to 'spread the risk' so to speak. :D

    Anyway, that's my two cents. Good luck!
     
  15. Beau Geste

    Beau Geste yah mo b there
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    Here's my response from the same post from another forum:

    IMHO, you really sounded lazy in your earlier academic career. Unfortunately you had that problem while you were IN MED SCHOOL (DO = MED SCHOOL). Your story is worded nicely with anecdotes and examples, but adcoms can and will see through it and get that you were not serious about being in medical school. It's good that you are an EMT and finished up with an engineering license. It's even better that you re-took your pre-reqs with As. To me, your application would need something more to prove yourself - shadowing, research, serious volunteer work, or something more another poster could suggest. A lot of people are rejected from the application process with A's and healthcare experience, especially if they were slackers in the recent past.

    Also, you stated you wanted to get into an MD school - honestly, how do you think they will react to your previous med school experience (again, DO = MED SCHOOL)? Most MD schools respect the DOs and their education.

    I know I am coming off harsh, but you really make yourself sound like you were "too good" or "too smart" for the DO degree. Who in their right mind gets into med school and doesn't study? Dropping names like Mensa and the high IQ society will not impress people if you can't do anything with your intelligence. You also mentioned being handed scholarship after scholarship and opportunity after opportunity but threw them away - what will make an adcom think that you won't do the same again?

    With the attitude that a DO title doesn't matter to you, and the bio you wrote, I don't think you have a very good chance. But then again, you asked for advice and I'm just giving you my honest opinion.

    Maybe efex, Q, exlawgirl or others might be able to give you better advice. Good luck.
     
  16. planningMD

    planningMD Member
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    it honestly scared me the first time around. i felt unmotivated to study. i passed tests, sometimes without studing, even in medical school, though not often enough :D

    part of me just wanted to quit. i was scared to get on the floor and have just gotten there from studying a few hrs before the test. i just did not even want to be there in that position, with that responsibility.

    the past few yrs i was searching my own heart in what i was doing to understand things better. i think ive hit that point. i dont take things for granted like i used to. i want this a lot, and i want to as good as i possibly can, i dont want to feel scared, i want to do this, for me, but for others because i dont want to trust ppls lives with someone who doesnt think like me now, who is not in this 110%. ive seen many people die recently... lots of things going on... life has a special meaning to me now.
     
  17. jgl1980

    jgl1980 Senior Member
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    Planning MD,

    I would like to start off by saying thank you for your post, it hits home with me in more ways then one and I appreciate it (and I am not joking)! I believe that you will have a shot at an MD school. Just copy and past that as your personal statement (well flower it up a little bit). To everyone else we have to realize that the DO route is not for everyone and some people would be better suited as a MD. PlanningMD has stated that there is no difference between the two and we should respect the posters decision. Everyone makes mistakes and takes some things forgranted and learning from our mistakes is what makes us better.I believe you have a good shot at an MD program good luck with everything you do and keep us posted. Thanks
     
  18. Doctor Bagel

    Doctor Bagel so cheap and juicy
    Moderator Emeritus 15+ Year Member

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    planningmd, i'm puzzled by a few things in your story. one, if you realized that getting a do is indeed very hard work and equal to an md degree, why are you so insistent on getting into an allopathic school this time? didn't you learn your lesson the first time and be beyond the whole it's only worth my effort if it's hard to get in here thing? it sounds like you didn't, and that's disturbing. also, i'm not trying to beat up on you, but why didn't you get your act together after failing that first test? for most people, that's a wake-up call.

    since you are posting in the pre-osteo forum, you're probably not going to get the best advice here about getting into an allopathic school i'd take it to either the non-trad forum or pre-allo. for my two cents, i think it's critical that you articulate why you want to be a doctor in your application and have the clinical experience to support that. to me, it's sounding like you want to get into an md school just because it's hard and it would satisfy your ego to be there. my guess is that's the kiss of death to an adcom.

    i'm not an adcom, so i don't know, but my hunch is that if you really want that md, you'll have to leave the country because failing out from another school (be it do or md) has got to be about the biggest red flag out there on an application. if you really want to be a doctor, i think you'd be amenable to that suggestion and willing to do whatever it takes, even if you have to work hard while admitting to yourself that you're in a school with lower admissions standards. that would show maturity.
     
  19. planningMD

    planningMD Member
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    thanks. maybe we can talk more someday, id love to hear your story. and yes, both DO and MD education is the same. you can go where you want to with it. my previous school even had some plastic surgs and derm ppl who graduated from there to come in talk on different things. is it hard? yea, no matter where you go.

    good luck to you.
     
  20. planningMD

    planningMD Member
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    yea they are the same, i guess i thought that the DO world would not even consider me at all since i left a school already. i really would consider any school i could get into, and right now the caribbean is sounding like where it will be at. please dont get me wrong, i have nothing against either school/philosophy... it was just my idea that a MD school is where i would have to settle to. dunno...

    im really not trying to appease my ego, my end goal is to do FP back in michigan, and away from the cities. i have many and varied reasons that probably no one would really undertstand for that, but rest assured, my ego is among none of the reasons.

    thanks for the help.

    oh and yea i guess it should have been a wake up call for failing a test. i dunno... somehow it just wasnt... and then there was this girl, and my outlook on this, and... well... on and on... i can give you MANY reasons... but basically... i continued and left.
     
  21. ragda26

    ragda26 Senior Member
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    hey,

    to all those pre-meds confused about the DO degree, read the book posted on the OMT blog.....

    buy it, it is well worth the money.
     

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